I read the accout I also unlike you read what jonny said read it again
Jonny Too bad "M", or whoever that is didn't have the guts to walk away that first time like my wife did when Craig tried the same s h it on her.
M's storyI got into the other bed and laid there with my eyes wide open, not blinking, but with silent tears running out, until
day light. When it was light, I got dressed and went out to my car. I was in a rage. I spun the tires of my car until I had flung all the gravel, grass and dirt beneath them onto the motor coach and I roared out of there.
That was the first time.
.That was the first time Jonny spoke of read the story based on her account: she was in a rage rightfully so, yet despite the fact that she was in this rage and knew of the potential danger having experienced it first hand once, she returned anyway. As I said that does not excuse the action but at some point personal judgment also plays into the mix she did have the choice not to return and therefore would not have experienced any drugs if that was the case. To say she had no chance is inaccurate to say she had no chance once she returned to put herself in harms way after knowing of the potential danger would be. that's the difference. One could debate that she should not have had to worry about the choice and I'd agree she should not have. But if one knows that hanging around a certain situation or person is potentially dangerous at some point they have to accept their mistakes if they choose to do it anyway. I should be free to walk anywhere I want but if I am dumb enough to walk at night where I know there to muggings going on then I have to accept my responsibility for my choices.It's misleading to say she was drugged she did not have a chance ,she did ,she could have never returned anywhere near the motor coach and given her self described rage I have no clue why she would have.
There is no question in my mind that PFAL teaches biblical truths, which ARE on the level of scripture. While I don't believe all (all without exception) are biblical truth, a lot of it is. Which yes, means that I believe Dr. Wierwille did have excellent spiritual understanding, despite his sins. Just like King Solomon.
Let's be honest. If you and others who condemn Wierwille and PFAL spent time examining and studying Solomon's sins, and really take his repugnant acts to heart, like you do Wierwille's repugnant acts, you would find the Book of Proverbs repugnant to read. You don't. Because your entire focus is on the sins of Wierwille, which is why you find PFAL repugnant and can't stand it when folks post good things about it.
Well, to be honest – I don't waste my time examining anybody's sins – whether people in the Bible or in present day. What I do think is critical - is to observe the person's response when confronted on their sinful actions. We are a fallen race – we all sin. The high moral standards of the Bible confronts us all – we all fall short in measuring up to them. And God doesn't want some hypocritical religious cover-up of our condition – He wants us to repent. I'll tell you what – for me personally, it is a very sobering process whenever I do think of vpw's behavior – it shows me what happens to someone when sin goes unchecked!
You've done this before – listing the sins of those who wrote the Bible and try to slip vpw into the same category. The difference is obvious – the Bible does in fact EXPOSE the sins of writers, they are CONFRONTED – and they REPENT! That's a big deal to God – that's why the psalmist wrote:
Psalm 51:16, 17 NIV
16 You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;
The vpw-defenders should be so honest! Any time there was a chance that one of the women he molested was going to spill the beans – sure as shootin' ol' vpwandcohorts would turn the tables and make sure she was deemed possessed – and pffft!!! "problem" solved – the woman is run off and his little man-o-god persona was preserved…Unlike the people of the Bible that you try to draw similarities to - for vpw there was NO biblical confrontation, NO exposing of his heinous sins, and therefore…and most importantly, NO repentance on his part.
Can any of the TWI/veepee defenders please tell me which works of veepee's were "original", you know, not stolen from someone else... not written by someone else?
I'd really like to know if there's anything... anything at all...
I read the accout I also unlike you read what jonny said read it again
.That was the first time Jonny spoke of read the story based on her account: she was in a rage rightfully so, yet despite the fact that she was in this rage and knew of the potential danger having experienced it first hand once, she returned anyway. As I said that does not excuse the action but at some point personal judgment also plays into the mix she did have the choice not to return and therefore would not have experienced any drugs if that was the case. To say she had no chance is inaccurate to say she had no chance once she returned to put herself in harms way after knowing of the potential danger would be. that's the difference. One could debate that she should not have had to worry about the choice and I'd agree she should not have. But if one knows that hanging around a certain situation or person is potentially dangerous at some point they have to accept their mistakes if they choose to do it anyway. I should be free to walk anywhere I want but if I am dumb enough to walk at night where I know there to muggings going on then I have to accept my responsibility for my choices.It's misleading to say she was drugged she did not have a chance ,she did ,she could have never returned anywhere near the motor coach and given her self described rage I have no clue why she would have.
And don't forget, some posters are accusing Dr. Wierwille of raping this girl "M". She freely goes back a second time and Wierwille gets accused of RAPE.
Adultery yes. He was wrong. But please call it what it was.
,she could have never returned anywhere near the motor coach and given her self described rage I have no clue why she would have.
Get a clue at the following link, please.
This is why it is rape: This is why her judgement was not clear: This is why there are professional codes of conduct regarding superiors and subordinates, doctors and patients, students and teachers.
And don't forget, some posters are accusing Dr. Wierwille of raping this girl "M". She freely goes back a second time and Wierwille gets accused of RAPE.
Adultery yes. He was wrong. But please call it what it was.
You've done this before – listing the sins of those who wrote the Bible and try to slip vpw into the same category. The difference is obvious – the Bible does in fact EXPOSE the sins of writers, they are CONFRONTED – and they REPENT! That's a big deal to God
Cat thank you for taking the time to share what you did. I know that you will never convince those whom willingly remain ignorant....but it is like someone else said....there are many who will read of your families treatment and...recognise the spiritual depravity of those whom we once held in such esteem...they will begin THEIR journey towards healing and wholeness.
These are the stories that break the mental chains that bound so many of us for so many years even after physically leaving twi.
What suprises me is how far folks will go to make villains out of the people who dare to merely SPEAK of the evil that vpw/lcm/Geer practiced....rather than being outraged and deeply offended at what these men DID utilizing the name of God and scriptures to enforce their sick wishes.
Cat thank you for taking the time to share what you did. I know that you will never convince those whom willingly remain ignorant....but it is like someone else said....there are many who will read of your families treatment and...recognise the spiritual depravity of those whom we once held in such esteem...they will begin THEIR journey towards healing and wholeness.
These are the stories that break the mental chains that bound so many of us for so many years even after physically leaving twi.
What suprises me is how far folks will go to make villains out of the people who dare to merely SPEAK of the evil that vpw/lcm/Geer practiced....rather than being outraged and deeply offended at what these men DID utilizing the name of God and scriptures to enforce their sick wishes.
You're welcome Rascal. The real reason I share this stuff, is not because I need to say it. I have moved on with my life. But other people need to be freshly reminded not only of the pain that TWI caused, and can still cause, but they need to see there are still people out there who support that kind of predation, and that they are active and vicious.
It underlines again, that if you do speak out, you risk being hurt again. But it exposes the wicked and their venom.
Most scholars agree Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon toward the end of his life. As an old man, Solomon reflected on his journey through life, including his drift away from and back to God. And judging by his closing remarks I would say Solomon did repent.
Ecclesiastes 12:9-14 NIV
9 Not only was the Teacher wise, but also he imparted knowledge to the people. He pondered and searched out and set in order many proverbs. 10 The Teacher searched to find just the right words, and what he wrote was upright and true.
11 The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails—given by one Shepherd. 12 Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them.
Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.
He started out with a lot of potential. His first test of wisdom right out of the box was amazing.
Yes, he is credited with having penned, Song of Solomon, Ecclesiastes and Proverbs. One might assume that he repented many times during his life of various sins...
I know his major sin - at least the one most harp on - was idolotry (not rape) as I recall. He had many. many wives. He apparently liked the pagan idea of a harem. Are you equating this with vpw's lust for young girls?
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Mark Clarke
I still believe those few things, with one qualification. We were taught we didn't go to heaven "right away" as you put it. But they were rather vague about what happens in the end. I believe we do
Catcup
Since leaving TWI, I have kind of devolved back almost to where my beliefs were just before getting into TWI. Although in my family we were raised Southern Baptist, we never believed Jesus was God.
GrouchoMarxJr
Unlike oldies, I believe that the majority of what was taught in pfal was wrong... However, as a Christian, I do believe in "eventual" eternal life and I believe that Jesus was the son of God and not
Catcup
Sorry it was unclear, hope that helps.
Uenjoy2
On the other hand, my better half teaches there and constantly reminds them how much he has learned from me and how I help him out.
And lo and behold, they still invite him back to teach.
Go figure.
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Sunesis
Damn Catcup - we're good!
Haven't lost our touch I see, after all these years :)
Yup, me and Catcup with Auntie Em in the Bookstore one year in the early '80s.
Proud to be a member of the "scum of the crik" Way Bookstore alumni from that year.
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Catcup
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WhiteDove
I read the accout I also unlike you read what jonny said read it again
.That was the first time Jonny spoke of read the story based on her account: she was in a rage rightfully so, yet despite the fact that she was in this rage and knew of the potential danger having experienced it first hand once, she returned anyway. As I said that does not excuse the action but at some point personal judgment also plays into the mix she did have the choice not to return and therefore would not have experienced any drugs if that was the case. To say she had no chance is inaccurate to say she had no chance once she returned to put herself in harms way after knowing of the potential danger would be. that's the difference. One could debate that she should not have had to worry about the choice and I'd agree she should not have. But if one knows that hanging around a certain situation or person is potentially dangerous at some point they have to accept their mistakes if they choose to do it anyway. I should be free to walk anywhere I want but if I am dumb enough to walk at night where I know there to muggings going on then I have to accept my responsibility for my choices.It's misleading to say she was drugged she did not have a chance ,she did ,she could have never returned anywhere near the motor coach and given her self described rage I have no clue why she would have.
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T-Bone
Well, to be honest – I don't waste my time examining anybody's sins – whether people in the Bible or in present day. What I do think is critical - is to observe the person's response when confronted on their sinful actions. We are a fallen race – we all sin. The high moral standards of the Bible confronts us all – we all fall short in measuring up to them. And God doesn't want some hypocritical religious cover-up of our condition – He wants us to repent. I'll tell you what – for me personally, it is a very sobering process whenever I do think of vpw's behavior – it shows me what happens to someone when sin goes unchecked!
You've done this before – listing the sins of those who wrote the Bible and try to slip vpw into the same category. The difference is obvious – the Bible does in fact EXPOSE the sins of writers, they are CONFRONTED – and they REPENT! That's a big deal to God – that's why the psalmist wrote:
Psalm 51:16, 17 NIV
16 You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;
you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.
17 The sacrifices of God are [c] a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart,
O God, you will not despise.
The vpw-defenders should be so honest! Any time there was a chance that one of the women he molested was going to spill the beans – sure as shootin' ol' vpw and cohorts would turn the tables and make sure she was deemed possessed – and pffft!!! "problem" solved – the woman is run off and his little man-o-god persona was preserved…Unlike the people of the Bible that you try to draw similarities to - for vpw there was NO biblical confrontation, NO exposing of his heinous sins, and therefore…and most importantly, NO repentance on his part.
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rascal
Sorry I see that it has already been covered.
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Tom Strange
Can any of the TWI/veepee defenders please tell me which works of veepee's were "original", you know, not stolen from someone else... not written by someone else?
I'd really like to know if there's anything... anything at all...
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oldiesman
And don't forget, some posters are accusing Dr. Wierwille of raping this girl "M". She freely goes back a second time and Wierwille gets accused of RAPE.
Adultery yes. He was wrong. But please call it what it was.
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J0nny Ling0
I'm not a VP defender, so I guess I can't help you out there Tom.
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Catcup
Get a clue at the following link, please.
This is why it is rape: This is why her judgement was not clear: This is why there are professional codes of conduct regarding superiors and subordinates, doctors and patients, students and teachers.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/editor...-an-affair.html
This has to be like the third time I have posted this link.
It is being ignored.
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Ham
Kinda like saying, "well, Capone was a killer, a gangster, but don't dare call him a common thug.."
so much mincing about which label to hang on the mogster..
In either case.. call it what you will.. what "daddy" did was rather despicible..
what a monster.
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Catcup
You are willingly ignorant
I called it exactly what it is.
RAPE
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oldiesman
Did Solomon repent of his sins?
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Tom Strange
White Dove, you (in your own words) are describing the person and the "ministry" that you and others defend and revere... can you believe that? Why?
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oldiesman
Sorry Catcup, but the facts don't support you in this case.
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Ham
He was supposed to be a father figure.. he even showed that to be an illusion.
A real father doesn't do this with a daughter..
it puts a blot on him he can't wash off..
what a stained, half an excuse of a man..
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Catcup
I'm pretty sure they do. You are still ignoring the facts.
You always will.
You epitomize the very reason women find it nigh to impossible to bring charges against the men who rape them.
Because people like you victimize them all over again.
Think about that.
Oh, I forgot. You can't afford to.
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rascal
Cat thank you for taking the time to share what you did. I know that you will never convince those whom willingly remain ignorant....but it is like someone else said....there are many who will read of your families treatment and...recognise the spiritual depravity of those whom we once held in such esteem...they will begin THEIR journey towards healing and wholeness.
These are the stories that break the mental chains that bound so many of us for so many years even after physically leaving twi.
What suprises me is how far folks will go to make villains out of the people who dare to merely SPEAK of the evil that vpw/lcm/Geer practiced....rather than being outraged and deeply offended at what these men DID utilizing the name of God and scriptures to enforce their sick wishes.
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Catcup
You're welcome Rascal. The real reason I share this stuff, is not because I need to say it. I have moved on with my life. But other people need to be freshly reminded not only of the pain that TWI caused, and can still cause, but they need to see there are still people out there who support that kind of predation, and that they are active and vicious.
It underlines again, that if you do speak out, you risk being hurt again. But it exposes the wicked and their venom.
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Ham
I think some refuse to mourn. Reality is just too hard to consider.. they may prove to be impossible to convince.
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excathedra
poor marsha. it's because of how you dissect her that i can't post
would it help you to know i woke up in the middle of it happening
would you then like to know i never went back
you make me sick
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T-Bone
Most scholars agree Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon toward the end of his life. As an old man, Solomon reflected on his journey through life, including his drift away from and back to God. And judging by his closing remarks I would say Solomon did repent.
Ecclesiastes 12:9-14 NIV
9 Not only was the Teacher wise, but also he imparted knowledge to the people. He pondered and searched out and set in order many proverbs. 10 The Teacher searched to find just the right words, and what he wrote was upright and true.
11 The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails—given by one Shepherd. 12 Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them.
Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.
13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.
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doojable
What's your point regarding Solomon?
He started out with a lot of potential. His first test of wisdom right out of the box was amazing.
Yes, he is credited with having penned, Song of Solomon, Ecclesiastes and Proverbs. One might assume that he repented many times during his life of various sins...
I know his major sin - at least the one most harp on - was idolotry (not rape) as I recall. He had many. many wives. He apparently liked the pagan idea of a harem. Are you equating this with vpw's lust for young girls?
Connect the dots for me please...
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Ham
reminds me what the vey kids did to a holocaust victim a few years ago.. it was on a thread here.
They attacked her without mercy.. publically. Practically called her a liar, a cheat.. What is the mentality here..
is "your" belief really worth that much?
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