A Few Big Things I Learned Taking PFAL

[Catcup]

My sister was 17 years old.

Many of Vic's victims were teenagers.

That man, the man you so revere, was a sexual predator.

We're not talking about a man who made one mistake. As I remember with David, he had this problem with Bathsheba. That is one woman, right? David suffered the consequences God promised of losing his son. David repented.

And David took Bathsheba to be his wife.

What did Wierwille do with the women he used?

He did not love them, he used them, then recycled them, until they were useless, then threw them away.

Where was Wierwille's repentance?

How many MORE teenage girls did he do between 1975 and 1985?

Where was his repentance?

There's the difference for ya.

[Catcup]

Again I ask this pretty simple question: Could someone please let me know what classes or books were veepee's original authorship?

Even Are The Dead Alive Now?, the book VP was sooooooooo pleased with his research on, quite possibly has lifted passages in it.

While studying at The University of Chicago, Dan McCxnaughy found a book with strikingly similar ideas and concepts. Dan told me that he noted that this volume had also been in the library when VP studied there. He wondered if VP had used it while researching the subject of the dead. He copied the book and sent a copy of it to VP. VP wrote some notes in it and sent it back to Dan. Geek has a photocopy of it. When he stops having to work 12 and 15 hour days, he wants to re-read it and compare it line by line with ADAN. Then we will be able to know if he also stole ideas from this book. Because there are no footnotes for this book in ADAN.

Is it possible he read the information in that book, never took good notes on what he learned, but incorporated the information into his ADAN book without crediting his source because he forgot where he learned it? Quite possibly.

Would that be plaigarism?

Absolutely.

For instance, while writing a paper last year, I thought of a particular comparison that really brought home a point I wanted to make, and I put it in the paper. I had read maybe 20 volumes, each about 200-400 pages each in doing my work. As I re-read my paper before turning it in, I started to have doubts about whether I had actually come up with that comparison on my own, or read it in another book. I started remembering a certain book that I might have gotten that comparison from. Started looking through it to see if I could find it where I thought I might have seen it. But it was a 3 inch thick book, and I had only a few hours before the deadline to turn in my research. I didn't have time to document that comparison properly. So I rewrote my paper to take it out, even though it was valid, and would have made a profound point. Why?

Because if I had included it on the hopes that it really was my own work, and it wasn't, and a professor knew where that idea came from, I COULD BE DISMISSED FROM THE COLLEGE FOR PLAGIARISM.

Plagiarism can be due to intentional deceit, or it can be due to sloppy notetaking.

VPW was guilty of both.

IN ADDITION TO BEING A SEXUAL PREDATOR.

And you guys want to revere this man for his "INTEGRITY"?

BTW-- Got an A+ on that paper............

Edited July 31, 2007 by Catcup

[skyrider]

Lacking the proper proof one can not validate or confirm something and Catcup your best guess does not count you have no evidence one way or another ,you can have your opinion all you want but that is what it is and that does not count as verifying something it counts as an opinion period. Honest people accept the fact that it could be either way as I did but somehow some defy all logic and have found the truth with out any evidence to get there.

Here is another word:

eye·wit·ness

–noun 1. a person who actually sees some act, occurrence, or thing and can give a firsthand account of it:

Did I witness vpw's "snow on the gas pumps"?....................NO

Did I witness vpw's trip to India?........................................NO

Did I witness vpw's in-depth study of the scriptures?............NO

Did I witness any of vpw's stories of learning revelation?.....NO

Did I witness vpw's intimate walk with God?........................NO

Did I witness vpw's filming of the pfal class?........................NO, but I sat through that class several times and, now, I'm not sure if vpw had an earpiece wherein someone else was telling him what to say, or if a teleprompter was used......in fact, I'm not really sure if that guy with a skinny tie is vpw at all.

<_<

[pond]

Is not a parent responsible for a 17 year old teen? Why was she out there alone on the wow field? the age of adulthood is 18 always has been.

sex is 17 , but a parent is always responsible for their children till legal age which is 18, how could she go "out wow" without them? at 17 she could not make medical decisions for herself legaly, she coul not sign any contract "lease for apartment" she was not even responsible forher self finanacialy, a parent still carrys the full load at 17. any decision she meade would have fallen on her parents to support and be responsible for how can twi legaly allow her to go? did your parents sign papers saying they would allow it?

the law sure wouldnt.

[Catcup]

Is not a parent responsible for a 17 year old teen? Why was she out there alone on the wow field? the age of adulthood is 18 always has been.

sex is 17 , but a parent is always responsible for their children till legal age which is 18, how could she go "out wow" without them? at 17 she could not make medical decisions for herself legaly, she coul not sign any contract "lease for apartment" she was not even responsible forher self finanacialy, a parent still carrys the full load at 17. any decision she meade would have fallen on her parents to support and be responsible for how can twi legaly allow her to go? did your parents sign papers saying they would allow it?

the law sure wouldnt.

My parents were brand new grads of the Power For Abundant Living Class, having completed it in July of 1975. This was a class that seemed to bring their two daughters back to them emotionally, when we had been in our separate orbits for a bit, with typical teenage rebelliousness. They had seen my sister and I become more respectful of them and their parental sacrifices for us since becoming grads of PFAL and leading bible fellowships in their home for several years before. They watched us become responsible people, entrusted with the care of many people under our leadership. They figured if TWI trusted us as leaders, they could trust TWI as well. I had already been out WOW ambassador and my parents liked what they thought they saw it do for me, having lived on my own since age 18.

My parents felt secure, back in 1975, for several reasons. A big one was, my sister was to be placed in a family of women with a family coordinator who was Way Corps, and over the age of 21.

Incidentally, she was sent to the very same city I had opened up as a WOW ambassador a year or so before, so there were already people in that state and in that city there, who knew both me and my sister, people who I had gotten in the Word. They knew my family through me, and they knew my sister through meeting her when my folks visited me when I was there on the field, and from meeting her several times at The Rock of Ages. So that gave my parents yet another level of security. It's not like she was being sent to a city full of strangers, with God only knows who. This was mapped out with some thought.

They did sign some kind of paper allowing her to go. She would have turned 18 the following year out on the field. That's why at that time TWI allowed 17 yr olds out on the field-- if they would come of age on the field. They did not allow anyone younger to go. You had to be a high school grad, or the age of a high school grad, to go.

Things were much different back in '75.

And my parents had immense respect and trust in "men of the cloth."

We all placed our trust in the hands of a man who appeared to be very trustworthy at the time.

Edited July 31, 2007 by Catcup

[WhiteDove]

Did I witness vpw's "snow on the gas pumps"?....................NO

Did I witness vpw's trip to India?........................................NO

Did I witness vpw's in-depth study of the scriptures?............NO

Did I witness any of vpw's stories of learning revelation?.....NO

Did I witness vpw's intimate walk with God?........................NO

Did I witness vpw's filming of the pfal class?........................NO, but I sat through that class several times and, now, I'm not sure if vpw had an earpiece wherein someone else was telling him what to say, or if a teleprompter was used......in fact, I'm not really sure if that guy with a skinny tie is vpw at all.

<_<

Then again it was not me Sky who stuck my face out there and claimed to be something I was not by definition now was I? Nor did I verify something that was impossible to verify without proper data now was I?

[pond]

So Dove let me get this straight - I'm really asking here...

Is M's account not an eyewitness account? (She was there!)

It may be it may not be it is words on a screen by an anonymous person on the internet that showed up on a anti way site. No I do not accept everything I read on the net as truth it may be the gospel truth it may be biased BS who can know?

My point was that some who claimed to be able to verify the eyewitness account seem to be lacking in the story as being a eyewitness as I see it at best yes M would be an eyewitness I see no verification of the story by anyone else. other than second hand info and opinion.

On another note, for arguments sake:

Let's say that no one was drugged. Let's say no one was raped. Even with these two elements out of the picture, vp was wrong.

Did I ever say once that he was not ? In fact find a post ever where I said he was not on any thread for that matter.Since you guys are so fond of quoting the Bible on this one, let's consider the David and Bathsheba story for a second.

David was the one held accountable. He didn't rape or drug Bathsheba. You can argue that God wasn't angry about he and Bathsheba - that it was only because he plotted to have Uriah killed. I'm not sure that will pass muster because there's still a commandment that prohibits coveting another man's wife.

David used his position and power to manipulate the situation to his advantage - he did it with Bathsheba and he did it to get Uriah killed. God never addresses how many times Bathsheba opened her home to the King. He never talks about whether or not she enjoyed it. He only says that David was wrong.

Oh and Nathan didn't have any eyewitnesses either...

Oh and yes - David was forgiven - after he was confronted and asked for forgiveness. He didnt' go out and do the same again, now did he?

Oh and while Solomon was a good guy for a while; Rehoboam, (Solomon's son and David's grandson) made a mess of the kingdom.

I never quoted any scripture on this first off and I am not God and I don't have his ability to see the truth in every situation, so I rely on facts to determine truth or not. and I never excused anyone either that is a constant fallacy perpetuated by Rascal and company to sidetrack the point I specifically addressed that point several times why is this still a question? I stated on several occasions that VPW could well be guilty as charged that was not the point of dispute it was verifying things that you have no proof of, which is not verifying at all its opinion passed off as truth. I take exception to that and that alone How God feels is his business. my concern is misrepresenting information and words which later show up again in other threads later on to be now not opinion any longer but somehow changed to the truth. John Lynn said he thought people may have been drugged fine his opinion he offers no proof but that's fine he is entitled to his opinion. But now all of a sudden it is now accepted fact people were because John thought so. is that the standard for truth? Sorry personal opinion is not fact or truth Gee just maybe John could be wrong but lets not explore that fact cause it clashes with our it must be negative if its the Way agenda. If you want me to believe what your selling you better have proof. I think people accepted opinion way too often as truth while in the way It did not work too well then either, people have all kinds of reasons for saying things many of which are dishonest and purposefully misleading. You make a claim you better have something to back it up if you say you are an eyewitness you better be personally there that what it is to be one. I've never been an eyewitness to a bank robbery but someone once told me a story that was at least they said so, that did not make me now an eyewitness it made me someone who heard a story which could have been true or part true or a complete fabrication. I had no way of knowing which it was It would be foolish to assume I could verify what was not in my power to confirm.

ok white dove

you like integrity. you believe truth is paramount. cool nice aspirations.

one thing is this is an Internet forum hello not a court room most realize that right? ok i am a licensed person by law I must document any incident , i see or have information about.

most day care workers medical professional and semi ,the list is endless ,now also have certification or license in which the law states a mandate!!! and the penalty is sever including jail time if they do not report or document each and every ( such is the wording ) suspicion!!

so a child come into day care looks sleepy and kind of grumpy does the day care worker say they are up all night at a party?

I hear in the break room an employee say in frustration gee i really hate it when so and so does this, do i report it as abuse or neglect? later in the day i notice a bruise on the person she was talking about and incident has to be written, do i metion what sally said in the break room? I have no proof it was just a fleeting conversation right? Well an investigation is done and Sally was found guilty of abuse and I lose my license for not metioning what i heard in the break room, no i did not have anything to do with the incident but i had "information" or suspect and should have written it up. (NO THIS DID NOT HAPPEN IT IS AN EXAMPLE)

these types of investigation and incidents happen on a daily level . a prisoner in jail here is filing claims of sexual harrasment on my friend a RN so he can get outside and feel some fresh air while going to court! this is life in America, and due process will take a year in court and thousands of tax payers money.

Every bump or cut at the Dr's office HAS to be reported as abuse? NO of course not , we decide people in the position decide what we think.

my point is every one is held accountable for their own judgments, their own common sense.

i wonder if you use common sense in life or if has to be all black and white line of rigid fear of the unknown .

by your standard very few would be protected and many would be put in harms way. the word used suspicion is !not an absolute you know for sure without a doubt actually saw it proof.

why is that?

clearly it is to open an investigation under any possible hint of trouble or misconduct BEFORE more harm is done. it is to protect people from harm.

your standard is out of line with how our laws to protect are enforced, how professional care takers, teachers, medical and emergency people , police are mandated to perform.

Edited July 31, 2007 by pond

[Ham]

I just don`t understand this insane need to marginalize and minimalize what these men and their pimps did.

I don't either. Maybe somehow, these gasbags have imprinted themselves on some people's consciousness as being God himself..

maybe they convinced them to huff the right kind of spiritual glue..

or maybe...

der evil "doctor" gave them some kind of spiritual lobotomy..

reminds me of the "reformed" hippy girl in twig in the 70's.. "we call him DOCTOR Wierwille.. grr, grrr.."

I thought.. "what did they do to YOU?"

Or, maybe, it's just fear.. maybe they can't even consider or take an honest look at some of man's darker nature. That is why Hitler got away with so much before some people woke up..

[Ham]

Are the few crumbs from the great(?) man's table really worth it?

"Thanks *mr* Capone, you're a "saint of Gawd"... "

:(

[J0nny Ling0]

I also thought it way cool that poeple, including myself, could recite all of the books of the Bible by the end of the class. And, that is still a big help to this day. It was an amazing thing to me that so many people could get excited enough about the Bible to have been able to sit through three weeks of that, giving their evening's attention to Biblical study.

[pond]

I think it is what the way taught us to think.

If you say negative your hurting GOD and HIS word!!!

they are ambassadors for christ ! it is an ego thing , some in twi lived off the shine others performed, and in life nothing eles mattered in fact many did not have a life other than the doctrine of twi, which was closely linked to its leaders.

it was the life blood of many, to tarnish it in any way hurt them on a very personal level, and you know to have that whole it is about God thing tricky slimy added fear into the mix.

[doojable]

So Dove let me get this straight - I'm really asking here...

Is M's account not an eyewitness account? (She was there!)

On another note, for arguments sake:

Let's say that no one was drugged. Let's say no one was raped. Even with these two elements out of the picture, vp was wrong.

Dove - This was the only part of the post specifically addressed to you. Please note the use of the plural in the next sentence:

Since you guys are so fond of quoting the Bible on this one, let's consider the David and Bathsheba story for a second.

I used this example because this story always gets dragged out of the closet.

My point was that some who claimed to be able to verify the eyewitness account seem to be lacking in the story as being a eyewitness as I see it at best yes M would be an eyewitness I see no verification of the story by anyone else. other than second hand info and opinion.

You of course must know that there are plenty of crimes where there is no verification. That is why even in a court of law, expert testimony can be given by a professional. Psychologists and psychiatrists are called frequently to help assess whether or not a person is telling the truth in addition to helping to identify a person's state of mind.

and I never excused anyone either that is a constant fallacy perpetuated by Rascal and company to sidetrack the point I specifically addressed that point several times why is this still a question? I stated on several occasions that VPW could well be guilty as charged that was not the point of dispute it was verifying things that you have no proof of, which is not verifying at all its opinion passed off as truth.

No, you didn't accuse anyone- but others on the thread have... You don't say VP could well be guilty as charged nearly as loudly and as often as you say that the women had a choice. (IMO)

The following is addressed to anyone that wants to argue that VP shared responsibility with the women he took advantage of:

I said all this (following) for a reason:

David used his position and power to manipulate the situation to his advantage - he did it with Bathsheba and he did it to get Uriah killed. God never addresses how many times Bathsheba opened her home to the King. He never talks about whether or not she enjoyed it. He only says that David was wrong.

That was to shut up all those who are so fond of saying that these girls had to bear some blame because "they went back for more." (Yeah, I'm paraphrasing here. ) Drugs or not, rape or not, even if they liked it (ugh -that's not an accusation I'm making BTW)

VP was wrong. Vp used HIS position and power to get what he wanted.

Note please that God never puts Bathsheba's ability to "just say, 'No"" on trial. He never even mentions whether or not Bathsheba was moral. He didn't compare her to the woman down the street who didn't open her home to David. He didn't put her on trial at all. Nathan never went and visited her. That tells me that GOD placed responsiblity and accountability on DAVID'S shoulders.

The resposibility and accountability for VP's actions rests on VP - not the girls who ended up in the motorcoach. It doesn't matter how they ended up there - HE was wrong.

Edited July 31, 2007 by doojable

[johniam]

quote: He didn't compare her to the woman down the street who didn't open her home to David.

What? Where did you hear about some woman down the street? Is the Jerusalem enquirer on the internet?

[J0nny Ling0]

Pardon the interruption:

This thread has been high jacked by the Usual Suspects. Be advised: there will be no return to the previously scheduled topic

[Ham]

"It is 11:30 PM. Do you parents know where your threads are tonight?"

[oldiesman]

Jonny please use larger fonts, I can't see. :)

Should we write about the benefits of PFAL, or other stuff?

And where the "h" is doreen?

[pond]

lol

i thought the same thing where is this doreen gal anyway?

johnny

the drama , doesnt escape you does it now?

we each have our own flair for the sensational .

[WhiteDove]

ok white dove

you like integrity. you believe truth is paramount. cool nice aspirations.

one thing is this is an Internet forum hello not a court room most realize that right? ok i am a licensed person by law I must document any incident , i see or have information about.

most day care workers medical professional and semi ,the list is endless ,now also have certification or license in which the law states a mandate!!! and the penalty is sever including jail time if they do not report or document each and every ( such is the wording ) suspicion!!

so a child come into day care looks sleepy and kind of grumpy does the day care worker say they are up all night at a party?

I hear in the break room an employee say in frustration gee i really hate it when so and so does this, do i report it as abuse or neglect? later in the day i notice a bruise on the person she was talking about and incident has to be written, do i metion what sally said in the break room? I have no proof it was just a fleeting conversation right? Well an investigation is done and Sally was found guilty of abuse and I lose my license for not metioning what i heard in the break room, no i did not have anything to do with the incident but i had "information" or suspect and should have written it up. (NO THIS DID NOT HAPPEN IT IS AN EXAMPLE)

these types of investigation and incidents happen on a daily level . a prisoner in jail here is filing claims of sexual harrasment on my friend a RN so he can get outside and feel some fresh air while going to court! this is life in America, and due process will take a year in court and thousands of tax payers money.

Every bump or cut at the Dr's office HAS to be reported as abuse? NO of course not , we decide people in the position decide what we think.

my point is every one is held accountable for their own judgments, their own common sense.

i wonder if you use common sense in life or if has to be all black and white line of rigid fear of the unknown .

by your standard very few would be protected and many would be put in harms way. the word used suspicion is !not an absolute you know for sure without a doubt actually saw it proof.

why is that?

clearly it is to open an investigation under any possible hint of trouble or misconduct BEFORE more harm is done. it is to protect people from harm.

your standard is out of line with how our laws to protect are enforced, how professional care takers, teachers, medical and emergency people , police are mandated to perform.

Pond I'm not sure exactly what your point was here but you are right this an internet forum and as such that does not mean that one can just throw out anything as truth. Believe me and you know any statement made that appears to have even a slight smell at 1000 yards of possibly maybe being a slight hint toward something positive about the way is instantly called into question and proof demanded by the pack. The door swings both ways here so yes I do demand truth facts document able, without that it is only opinion. That does not imply one way or the other if the opinion is true or not only that it is not verifiable as truth. life is black and white and although I am on the white side (that's a joke- being a White dove) I have no such line of fear that you speak of. Grey is a nice area of Psycho-babble for those who don't wish to admit responsibility for their actions to hide in. Last time I looked our laws did require proof of violation and real verification of facts. The truth is either you did or did not do an action you may well have reasons why you did or did not do something but it does not negate the action. It may make you feel better that you can explain away why you have no responsibility but in a court the judge does not care why you were speeding he only wants to know if you were?

[oldiesman]

One of the greatest things I learned in PFAL, was that I was born again, heaven bound and all hell can't stop me from going. Sealed with holy spirit. Born a new creature, in Christ. That God wouldn't (and in fact COULDN'T) disown me, because of my sins. That I will ALWAYS be His child. This is comforting.

[pond]

proof White Dove is relative.

the cop said i ran the red light.

I KNOW I didnt who wins?

looking in the mirror knowing i did the right thing does not pay the fine the judge ordered me to pay.

where do you live buddy? in a tree above the rest of reality? crimes are comminted by people often very well versed on how not to get caught, water gate enron , that foot ball guy simpson...NOW THEY HAD MONEY and power.

HARD Evidence is NOT BY FAR the only reason people get harrased accussed or EVEN convicted.

many times it is hear say or testimony of another who heard something even in a prison cell from another prisoner, hello these are used as EVIDENCE. before dna it was even worse.

do you think it is all that black or white really prove it or your innocent? circumstance CONVICTS. in many many areas of life. even you convict the girl m because she went into the motor coach she must be guilty of wanting sex again. REALLY prove that white dove.

come on. get real. go hear the thousand of prisoners everyday who scream they are innocent and the whole thing has been a BIG misunderstanding ya know!

[WhiteDove]

QUOTE Dojable

You of course must know that there are plenty of crimes where there is no verification. That is why even in a court of law, expert testimony can be given by a professional. Psychologists and psychiatrists are called frequently to help assess whether or not a person is telling the truth in addition to helping to identify a person's state of mind.

Indeed I do and I also know that they are not allowed to misrepresent their opinion as facts only their professional opinion and it is subject to review and dispute as such by other equally qualified people. They only verify what they indeed can verify. They also do not make claims to have been an eyewitness to something that they were not. You may wish to let that slide I will not simple as that..

and I never excused anyone either that is a constant fallacy perpetuated by Rascal and company to sidetrack the point I specifically addressed that point several times why is this still a question? I stated on several occasions that VPW could well be guilty as charged that was not the point of dispute it was verifying things that you have no proof of, which is not verifying at all its opinion passed off as truth.

No, you didn't accuse anyone- but others on the thread have... You don't say VP could well be guilty as charged nearly as loudly and as often as you say that the women had a choice. (IMO)

Ok so I'm not others can't they get the names straight REALLY come on do you really think after all this time it is not purposeful? I don't know there Doojie on this thread alone I think I said it several times then I referred to it a few more. I'm not going to go back through all my posts and count the times but I believe that it is pretty common knowledge that I have sufficiently made that point clear How much is enough ? Is there a quota? Do I get a star when I get there? and why do the detractors not have to meet the same standards and admit that their opinions might just not be fact as well. I think I have met by burden on this issue some others are far lacking. (And I was not referring to you for the record.)

[johniam]

quote: One of the greatest things I learned in PFAL, was that I was born again, heaven bound and all hell can't stop me from going. Sealed with holy spirit. Born a new creature, in Christ. That God wouldn't (and in fact COULDN'T) disown me, because of my sins. That I will ALWAYS be His child. This is comforting.

Comforting? It's normal healthy thinking. When I get home from work these days, I've been out in 90 degrees for 6 plus hours. So my body needs to be comforted by the AC in my house, but after several minutes have passed I don't need to be comforted; I just enjoy the normal healthy condition of having AC in my house.

Yes, when I first heard that I was going to heaven and all hell couldn't stop me from going, I was comforted. But it's been so many years here in the "AC" of God's love that it's just normal and healthy to me now.

Edited July 31, 2007 by johniam

[WhiteDove]

proof White Dove is relative.

the cop said i ran the red light.

A cops testimony in court is no guarentee that it is truth they lie all the time SO? that is our court system it is not the same thing as what is truth. Truth is provable if you can't you have suspicion which is fine call it that.I KNOW I didnt who wins?

looking in the mirror knowing i did the right thing does not pay the fine the judge ordered me to pay.

where do you live buddy? in a tree above the rest of reality? crimes are comminted by people often very well versed on how not to get caught, water gate enron , that foot ball guy simpson...NOW THEY HAD MONEY and power.

HARD Evidence is NOT BY FAR the only reason people get harrased accussed or EVEN convicted.

many times it is hear say or testimony of another who heard something even in a prison cell from another prisoner, hello these are used as EVIDENCE. before dna it was even worse.

do you think it is all that black or white really prove it or your innocent? circumstance CONVICTS. in many many areas of life. even you convict the girl m because she went into the motor coach she must be guilty of wanting sex again. REALLY prove that white dove.

come on. get real. go hear the thousand of prisoners everyday who scream they are innocent and the whole thing has been a BIG misunderstanding ya know!

It's not a perfect world Pond life is not always fair SO? you make my point that is exactly why I demand proof before condeming someone not guesses or opinions, for exactly the reason you stated lots of people are in jail because some accepted some opinion on why they were guilty rather than truth. This is the internet and just because someone says something I don't accept it as truth. Iwill not convict someone on anomous stories and John Lynn guess. Sorry, well no I'm not actually. Im quite happy with that........

Jonny please use larger fonts, I can't see. :)

Should we write about the benefits of PFAL, or other stuff?

And where the "h" is doreen?

Eventually I'll get caught up Well Maybe........... wouldn't want to ignore anyone you know and all.

[oldiesman]

Comforting? It's normal healthy thinking. When I get home from work these days, I've been out in 90 degrees for 6 plus hours. So my body needs to be comforted by the AC in my house, but after several minutes have passed I don't need to be comforted; I just enjoy the normal healthy condition of having AC in my house.

Yes, when I first heard that I was going to heaven and all hell couldn't stop me from going, I was comforted. But it's been so many years here in the "AC" of God's love that it's just normal and healthy to me now.

I hear ya.

Heck, its even more than just comforting. During my "in and out" years in twi, knowing and believing that one truth helped me reason within myself that no matter whether I fellowshipped in twi or not, I was beloved of God, and blessed for all time.

Edited July 31, 2007 by oldiesman

[johniam]

Hey, speaking of healthy and normal, I've been on a vitamin program for 4 months now and it seems to be working. My energy level is much better this year to withstand the heat than before. This health food store has a nurse come in every couple months or so and she puts a sample of your blood under a microscope which is connected to a TV monitor so you can see your blood flow giant sized. The nurse then points at stuff on the screen and tells you what's good and what's not.

One of the things I'm taking vitamins for is parasites. And wouldn't you know that one category of parasites identified by the reading material I got is the exact same name as one particularly persistent poster who condemns VP and PFAL in every possible way. Another benefit of PFAL is the concept that the bible is accurate