NO!!!! pfal is not part of the bible and neither are any of the other classas!!! they are classes !!! what is a class? a place you go to learn about something. do classes use material written by other peolple? yes! i worked as an electrician and took an electrical CLASS . we had books written by others. the class taught me how to better do my job. some people who have never done electrical work take classes to learn HOW to do electrical work. some others get on the job TRAINING. pfal taught HOW to study the bible. if i decide to be an airplane pilot i will need to take a class called ground school,or i can risk my life and others and risk getting thrown in jail an take someone elses plane for a joy fly!! i myself am extreamly thankful for pfal,the electrical classes,and the fact that you have to go to class to be a pilot. what i cant figure is why someone would agree to take a class and than go to the trouble of posting negative stuff on the web,what a waste of time. i am going to be taking a class on welding so the i learn the correct way to weld. one day i MIGHT,maybe take a class on computers. if you can figure stuff out for yourself thats great.
On the second Tuesday of last week I found a flat hard black rock under another rock with odd written on it. I just knew because the rock was dark black that the devil tried to destroy this great written of truth.
shiftthis -- I was making a joke of PFAL and while I love God and the word of God PFAL is nothing to me and it did me no value
shiftthis -- while the class may of help you it did me no good but what help me is my friends in TWI and God and Jesus Christ
shiftthis -- PFAL taught me nothing but who did was Jesus Christ has I reach for truth PFAL was just a place I looked for truth
shiftthis -- I was once thankful for PFAL too but my eyes are open now and you can be thankful if you want but I and others do not have to be
shiftthis -- what you call negatived others might not I post what I believe to be needed
If a pre-medical student is taking a Biology class,
and finds out the teacher is selling the answers to the exams in exchange for money or sex,
the student- who agreed to take Biology and WANTED to learn in it-
would be expected to report the teacher to the law and to warn others.
Someone who didn't SEE the teacher doing that, but liked his lecture style,
might thing the first student was "wasting his time" "telling negative stuff."
Then again someone that just wanted to learn the information presented, and either did not care what the teacher did or felt that the information presented was still useful despite the teachers actions still might not get it. I guess I need to go back and do a background check on all my school teachers to see if they have some error in their life that makes the English, or Math they taught invalid.
Then again someone that just wanted to learn the information presented, and either did not care what the teacher did or felt that the information presented was still useful despite the teachers actions still might not get it. I guess I need to go back and do a background check on all my school teachers to see if they have some error in their life that makes the English, or Math they taught invalid.
I wanted to keep this simple, and directly answer the question asked.
However, since you elected to bring this up again, I'll bring up one of the usual answers.
See,
there's Physics class and there's Bible class.
In Physics class, if the teacher is an idiot, the worst thing that can happen can be learning
incorrect Physics-which is partly negated with an accurate textbook.
If the teacher is immoral or breaking the law, then the Physics shouldn't really be affected.
Hard sciences aren't affected by morals.
SOCIAL sciences, on the other hand, can be driven by an AGENDA. It's possible for a bad
teacher to change the content of a class due to the teacher's bias, and the students will learn
ERROR as a result.
And when it comes to the Bible, morals and character COUNT. AGENDAS make an even BIGGER
difference when it comes to those. Trust issues are major. We expect Bible teachers to be MORE
moral than Physics and Psychology professors, not LESS moral.
If a Bible teacher is immoral, their agenda will affect what they teach, in large ways as well as
small ways. They will seek-consciously or subconsciously- to justify their wishes, like God permitting
sins they approve of, or that anyone who disagrees with their doctrine is defying God,
living in error, or pursing a personal agenda. (This is as honest as the hypocrites who accused Jesus
of casting out demons by the power of demons.)
If a science professor is immoral, one can generally come away with accurate science despite them.
If a Bible teacher is immoral, everything they taught is suspect for reflecting ERROR that matches their
agenda. Will it ALL be bad? Unlikely-but it ALL has to be checked.
It becomes WORSE when one's advisors- personal, moral- are dishonest and untrustworthy.
The answers they give will be the answers that serve THEM- not the questioner and not God.
Once the subject is raised, this is not difficult to see.
I wanted to keep this simple, and directly answer the question asked.
However, since you elected to bring this up again, I'll bring up one of the usual answers.
See,
there's Physics class and there's Bible class.
In Physics class, if the teacher is an idiot, the worst thing that can happen can be learning
incorrect Physics-which is partly negated with an accurate textbook.
If the teacher is immoral or breaking the law, then the Physics shouldn't really be affected.
Hard sciences aren't affected by morals.
SOCIAL sciences, on the other hand, can be driven by an AGENDA. It's possible for a bad
teacher to change the content of a class due to the teacher's bias, and the students will learn
ERROR as a result.
And when it comes to the Bible, morals and character COUNT. AGENDAS make an even BIGGER
difference when it comes to those. Trust issues are major. We expect Bible teachers to be MORE
moral than Physics and Psychology professors, not LESS moral.
If a Bible teacher is immoral, their agenda will affect what they teach, in large ways as well as
small ways. They will seek-consciously or subconsciously- to justify their wishes, like God permitting
sins they approve of, or that anyone who disagrees with their doctrine is defying God,
living in error, or pursing a personal agenda. (This is as honest as the hypocrites who accused Jesus
of casting out demons by the power of demons.)
If a science professor is immoral, one can generally come away with accurate science despite them.
If a Bible teacher is immoral, everything they taught is suspect for reflecting ERROR that matches their
agenda. Will it ALL be bad? Unlikely-but it ALL has to be checked.
It becomes WORSE when one's advisors- personal, moral- are dishonest and untrustworthy.
The answers they give will be the answers that serve THEM- not the questioner and not God.
Once the subject is raised, this is not difficult to see.
We agree on this, It ALL has to be checked.
As to this
If a Bible teacher is immoral, their agenda will affect what they teach, in large ways as well as
small ways. They will seek-consciously or subconsciously- to justify their wishes, like God permitting
sins they approve of, or that anyone who disagrees with their doctrine is defying God,
living in error, or pursing a personal agenda.
It is possible that it can go either way immoral persons don't necessarily reflect their personal beliefs into teaching. It is quite possible to teach scripture and lead a double life on the side . VP would not be the first to have done that.
if a pre-med student is taking an anatomy class, and finds out that the teacher is teaching inaccurate information because he is being paid to do so (by a bogus research group); then the student has an ethical duty to expose the teacher and his teachings...
whitedove, the bible says to beware of false prophets...
peace,
jen-o
p.s. i do not believe that it is possible to teach scripture ACCURATELY and lead a double life on the side... Balaam tried that, and look what happened to him...
if a pre-med student is taking an anatomy class, and finds out that the teacher is teaching inaccurate information because he is being paid to do so (by a bogus research group); then the student has an ethical duty to expose the teacher and his teachings...
whitedove, the bible says to beware of false prophets...
peace,
jen-o
p.s. i do not believe that it is possible to teach scripture ACCURATELY and lead a double life on the side... Balaam tried that, and look what happened to him...
So Wierwille was a prophet? I missed that.........
Of course it is.........
It has been pointed out that VP plagiarized most or all of the PFAL class word for word ,depending on what you accept. So tell me exactly how does sex change the words of others if their words were accurate into error. I mean What? Does it affect the motor control that they can't copy the work and read it back to others on video, Just how does that work ? If one guilty of moral decay reads for instance a page from Bulingers Bible on a subject is it like automatically converted into error when played back? How ridicules.
In Physics class, if the teacher is an idiot, the worst thing that can happen can be learning
incorrect Physics-which is partly negated with an accurate textbook.
If the teacher is immoral or breaking the law, then the Physics shouldn't really be affected.
Hard sciences aren't affected by morals.
Good point WW..
If I may add:
In Physics class, if the teacher is an idiot, the students suffer though perhaps not irreparably, and the Pysics teacher gets canned. If he or she is bad enough, it's not likely they will get a similar job, anywhere.
In a "bible class", or denomination, if the teacher is an idiot, or a womanizer, or an abuser of the students or church members in one fashion or another he gets fired. But no problemo. Just start one's own brand of religion in a cornfield somewhere..
The sins of the teacher doesn't negate the truths in the teaching.
I don't know about you, but the savagery, insanity and despicible actions of the "teacher" (and that can be questioned as well) negated anything I got out of it..
the "man" belonged in a straight jacket, not on a pulpit..
The sins of the teacher doesn't negate the truths in the teaching.
i'm not so sure about that, oldies...
however, it's a moot point anyway because there is so much error in vpw's teachings (which are based on false premises) that they are a complete waste of time and lead to both doctrinal and practical error....
whitedove,
i'm not referring to vpw's plagiarism, alcoholism, lust for sex, lust for power, lust for money, or moral decay (in your own words)...
It has been pointed out that VP plagiarized most or all of the PFAL class word for word ,depending on what you accept.
It has been pointed out that vp plagiarized most of the pfal class, from a variety of sources, in a melange that suited
his purposes. That's DIFFERENT than WD's rather MISrepresentative claim here.
He's changed it from what it was- a class where SOME accurate information (probably) existed,
alongside some INaccurate information (like the LAW of Believing, and all the women belonging to the King TECHNICALLY)
and alongside some information that was accurate when it was written, but then adulterated by being
taken out of its original context, and put through vpw's filter.
Thus, some of it might be fantastically accurate, some of it might be disgustingly egregious error.
And both might exist in the same sentence.
That's hardly the same as "the first 3 sessions are directly 3 chapters from Bullinger, the next 3 sessions are directly
Leonard..."
And NOBODY has claimed the plagiarism- which some people have spent a few YEARS DELIBERATELY distorting the
meaning of- was WORD FOR WORD.
The only time that claim comes up is when WD or one of a few other people have invented it to shoot it down
and say that since THEIR DISTORTION of plagiarism is false, that the REAL plagiarism is false also.
That's what we have here AGAIN.
So tell me exactly how does sex change the words of others if their words were accurate into error. I mean What? Does it affect the motor control that they can't copy the work and read it back to others on video, Just how does that work ? If one guilty of moral decay reads for instance a page from Bulingers Bible on a subject is it like automatically converted into error when played back? How ridicules.
How ridiculous indeed. Nobody's made that claim-but supposedly, that's what those who disagree with WD say.
I've never seen them post, but these people must be real idiots. If they ever post on the GSC, someone should let
however, it's a moot point anyway because there is so much error in vpw's teachings (which are based on false premises) that they are a complete waste of time and lead to both doctrinal and practical error....
Jen-o, if that is what you believe, then no problem. But the point is not moot. I'm not arguing against someone who believes the teachings are erroneous and false in and of themselves. That's your prerogative. What I'm arguing against is the idea that the teachings are false BECAUSE OF the sins of the teacher.
Beloved WordWolf, WhiteDove, jen-o, Sunesis, oldiesman, Ham
God loves you my dear friend
WordWolf - I love the way you explain it - looks like you guys are having fun debating -
WhiteDove - you made me laught thanks ("I guess I need to go back and do a background check on all my school teachers to see if they have some error in their life that makes the English, or Math they taught invalid. ") -looks like you guys are having fun debating -
jen-o - glad to see you adding to the fun debate they are having - yes peace -
Sunesis - I am not sure VPW was even good enough to be a devil spirit but that just me -
oldiesman - what little true there was because we are to be living examples of God's love and a hour here and there agains years of lyies make all this words questiable
So Wierwille was a prophet? I missed that.........
Of course it is.........
It has been pointed out that VP plagiarized most or all of the PFAL class word for word ,depending on what you accept. So tell me exactly how does sex change the words of others if their words were accurate into error. I mean What? Does it affect the motor control that they can't copy the work and read it back to others on video, Just how does that work ? If one guilty of moral decay reads for instance a page from Bulingers Bible on a subject is it like automatically converted into error when played back? How ridicules.
Yes it appears that's how some people think. Its loony. Its like someone successfully using the Autobahn for 20 years, then finding out that Adolph Hitler had them built, then they boycott them because Hitler was involved.
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waysider
Did God tell him to build a motorcoach out of gopher wood?
I'm just askin'-----------
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year2027
God first
Beloved waysider
God loves you my dear friend
yes but not just any gopher wood but only roten gopher wood so the ants could keep his riders jumping and moving
I am glad you asked
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
PS maybe Mike and Preacher can see the foolishness of worshiping a false class
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ex70sHouston
What am I to do? I'm in a panick. I got rid of all those books so long ago.
O NO. Watch out. I'm about to become a grease spot.
That was close, it turns out Martindale was that spot on the road.
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year2027
God first
Beloved ex70'shouston
God loves you my dear friend
yes I lost them all too
but isn't to better to be a grease spoter than a Wierwille-like
thanks I love your reply
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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shiftthis
NO!!!! pfal is not part of the bible and neither are any of the other classas!!! they are classes !!! what is a class? a place you go to learn about something. do classes use material written by other peolple? yes! i worked as an electrician and took an electrical CLASS . we had books written by others. the class taught me how to better do my job. some people who have never done electrical work take classes to learn HOW to do electrical work. some others get on the job TRAINING. pfal taught HOW to study the bible. if i decide to be an airplane pilot i will need to take a class called ground school,or i can risk my life and others and risk getting thrown in jail an take someone elses plane for a joy fly!! i myself am extreamly thankful for pfal,the electrical classes,and the fact that you have to go to class to be a pilot. what i cant figure is why someone would agree to take a class and than go to the trouble of posting negative stuff on the web,what a waste of time. i am going to be taking a class on welding so the i learn the correct way to weld. one day i MIGHT,maybe take a class on computers. if you can figure stuff out for yourself thats great.
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waysider
Shiftthis
It's all tongue in cheek.
Yeah, I know, we have a warped sense of humor here.
That's part of the attraction.
Though I will tell you this, there are some who are 100% convinced PFAL is God Breathed.
No amount of reason or logic can sway them from that conviction.
Stick around awhile and maybe you'll cross paths.
Hey! Have you had a chance to check out some of the games in The Reading Room?
Stop by and help us play "name that tune" or "movie pictionary".
Or, stop over in the "Doctrinal Room" if you want to get all "heavy".
Enjoy!!
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year2027
God first
Beloved shiftthis and waysider
God loves you my dear friend
shiftthis -- read this quote
shiftthis -- I was making a joke of PFAL and while I love God and the word of God PFAL is nothing to me and it did me no value
shiftthis -- while the class may of help you it did me no good but what help me is my friends in TWI and God and Jesus Christ
shiftthis -- PFAL taught me nothing but who did was Jesus Christ has I reach for truth PFAL was just a place I looked for truth
shiftthis -- I was once thankful for PFAL too but my eyes are open now and you can be thankful if you want but I and others do not have to be
shiftthis -- what you call negatived others might not I post what I believe to be needed
waysider - good to see you
thank you two
with love and a holy kisses blowing your way Roy
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jen-o
it is NOT negative to WARN people about deceptive error (some of it dangerous error)...
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year2027
God first
Beloved jen-o
God loves you my dear friend
yes alot of it was dangerous error
thank you
with love and a holy kisses blowing your way Roy
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WordWolf
Since you can't figure it out, I'll spell it out.
If a pre-medical student is taking a Biology class,
and finds out the teacher is selling the answers to the exams in exchange for money or sex,
the student- who agreed to take Biology and WANTED to learn in it-
would be expected to report the teacher to the law and to warn others.
Someone who didn't SEE the teacher doing that, but liked his lecture style,
might thing the first student was "wasting his time" "telling negative stuff."
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WhiteDove
Then again someone that just wanted to learn the information presented, and either did not care what the teacher did or felt that the information presented was still useful despite the teachers actions still might not get it. I guess I need to go back and do a background check on all my school teachers to see if they have some error in their life that makes the English, or Math they taught invalid.
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WordWolf
I wanted to keep this simple, and directly answer the question asked.
However, since you elected to bring this up again, I'll bring up one of the usual answers.
See,
there's Physics class and there's Bible class.
In Physics class, if the teacher is an idiot, the worst thing that can happen can be learning
incorrect Physics-which is partly negated with an accurate textbook.
If the teacher is immoral or breaking the law, then the Physics shouldn't really be affected.
Hard sciences aren't affected by morals.
SOCIAL sciences, on the other hand, can be driven by an AGENDA. It's possible for a bad
teacher to change the content of a class due to the teacher's bias, and the students will learn
ERROR as a result.
And when it comes to the Bible, morals and character COUNT. AGENDAS make an even BIGGER
difference when it comes to those. Trust issues are major. We expect Bible teachers to be MORE
moral than Physics and Psychology professors, not LESS moral.
If a Bible teacher is immoral, their agenda will affect what they teach, in large ways as well as
small ways. They will seek-consciously or subconsciously- to justify their wishes, like God permitting
sins they approve of, or that anyone who disagrees with their doctrine is defying God,
living in error, or pursing a personal agenda. (This is as honest as the hypocrites who accused Jesus
of casting out demons by the power of demons.)
If a science professor is immoral, one can generally come away with accurate science despite them.
If a Bible teacher is immoral, everything they taught is suspect for reflecting ERROR that matches their
agenda. Will it ALL be bad? Unlikely-but it ALL has to be checked.
It becomes WORSE when one's advisors- personal, moral- are dishonest and untrustworthy.
The answers they give will be the answers that serve THEM- not the questioner and not God.
Once the subject is raised, this is not difficult to see.
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WhiteDove
We agree on this, It ALL has to be checked.
As to this
If a Bible teacher is immoral, their agenda will affect what they teach, in large ways as well as
small ways. They will seek-consciously or subconsciously- to justify their wishes, like God permitting
sins they approve of, or that anyone who disagrees with their doctrine is defying God,
living in error, or pursing a personal agenda.
It is possible that it can go either way immoral persons don't necessarily reflect their personal beliefs into teaching. It is quite possible to teach scripture and lead a double life on the side . VP would not be the first to have done that.
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jen-o
i would have put it this way:
if a pre-med student is taking an anatomy class, and finds out that the teacher is teaching inaccurate information because he is being paid to do so (by a bogus research group); then the student has an ethical duty to expose the teacher and his teachings...
whitedove, the bible says to beware of false prophets...
peace,
jen-o
p.s. i do not believe that it is possible to teach scripture ACCURATELY and lead a double life on the side... Balaam tried that, and look what happened to him...
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WhiteDove
So Wierwille was a prophet? I missed that.........
Of course it is.........
It has been pointed out that VP plagiarized most or all of the PFAL class word for word ,depending on what you accept. So tell me exactly how does sex change the words of others if their words were accurate into error. I mean What? Does it affect the motor control that they can't copy the work and read it back to others on video, Just how does that work ? If one guilty of moral decay reads for instance a page from Bulingers Bible on a subject is it like automatically converted into error when played back? How ridicules.
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Sunesis
WD, Jen's saying VP was a false prophet.
VP was a false apostle
VP, who called himself the "Man of God," which was inscribed on his little bracelet, was not the MOG.
He was a false prophet who ravaged the flock.
You've been here along time.
Quit being delibertely obtuse. You know what Jen was saying.
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oldiesman
The sins of the teacher doesn't negate the truths in the teaching.
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Ham
If I may add:
In Physics class, if the teacher is an idiot, the students suffer though perhaps not irreparably, and the Pysics teacher gets canned. If he or she is bad enough, it's not likely they will get a similar job, anywhere.
In a "bible class", or denomination, if the teacher is an idiot, or a womanizer, or an abuser of the students or church members in one fashion or another he gets fired. But no problemo. Just start one's own brand of religion in a cornfield somewhere..
I don't know about you, but the savagery, insanity and despicible actions of the "teacher" (and that can be questioned as well) negated anything I got out of it..
the "man" belonged in a straight jacket, not on a pulpit..
:)
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WordWolf
Supposing there are truths there to begin with.
However,
when one is taking a class on the Bible, when one is getting advice from someone claiming to be godly and
representing God, one normally takes for granted that the speaker or teacher is speaking from their
best understanding of truth-and that truth is NOT adulterated by the AGENDA of the person.
In the case of vpw, that came out in little ways as well as big ones.
Men of God seemed to not get blamed for adultery whenever it came up- or be wrong for sexual
impropriety. (David was ONLY at fault for killing Uriah- but taking his wife and having sex with her
was fine, "TECHNICALLY." David and his cabinet had procured a young woman for David's bed,
to be in while he was in it. vpw referred to the woman as a "sex fiend"- but the woman was the last person
in the chain- why were David and the cabinet not "sex fiends"?)
The sins of the teacher-if the teacher is not striving earnestly against sin- CAN and DOES ADULTERATE
the truths in the teaching.
When one is learning a truth ONE minute and a falsehood the NEXT minute and believing both,
the truth isn't "negated" but it is affected by adulterating it with lies.
And that's just in the classroom, or at the pulpit.
In PRIVATE, when one is hearing advice, requested or non, the speaker's AGENDA becomes a bigger deal.
What truth of God's was being communicated when lcm was being told that he HAD TO have sex with women
other than his wife if he was going to be an effective man of God? What truth of God's was being communicated
when the Corps sat through a video of human-animal pornography at vpw's order?
What truth of God is being communicated when vpw was telling women their job and blessing was to service him
sexually, or to service other men of God sexually?
We all have sins. Many or most of us strive against them.
However, people with AGENDAS, especially those in positions of authority who have AGENDAS, put others in
harm's way, or just plain communicate falsehoods to them, to advance their AGENDAS.
ALMOST everybody can see that one easily.
Of course, there's going to be those who will skip my post, maybe grab one sentence, and try to make it sound
like my original post didn't really address the topic or any issue, or change the subject.
Tiresome, but for some, it's becoming TRADITIONAL.
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jen-o
i'm not so sure about that, oldies...
however, it's a moot point anyway because there is so much error in vpw's teachings (which are based on false premises) that they are a complete waste of time and lead to both doctrinal and practical error....
whitedove,
i'm not referring to vpw's plagiarism, alcoholism, lust for sex, lust for power, lust for money, or moral decay (in your own words)...
i'm referring to the teachings themselves!...
and the teachings are GARBAGE!
how much rat poisoning do you want to eat?
peace,
jen-o
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WordWolf
It has been pointed out that vp plagiarized most of the pfal class, from a variety of sources, in a melange that suited
his purposes. That's DIFFERENT than WD's rather MISrepresentative claim here.
He's changed it from what it was- a class where SOME accurate information (probably) existed,
alongside some INaccurate information (like the LAW of Believing, and all the women belonging to the King TECHNICALLY)
and alongside some information that was accurate when it was written, but then adulterated by being
taken out of its original context, and put through vpw's filter.
Thus, some of it might be fantastically accurate, some of it might be disgustingly egregious error.
And both might exist in the same sentence.
That's hardly the same as "the first 3 sessions are directly 3 chapters from Bullinger, the next 3 sessions are directly
Leonard..."
And NOBODY has claimed the plagiarism- which some people have spent a few YEARS DELIBERATELY distorting the
meaning of- was WORD FOR WORD.
The only time that claim comes up is when WD or one of a few other people have invented it to shoot it down
and say that since THEIR DISTORTION of plagiarism is false, that the REAL plagiarism is false also.
That's what we have here AGAIN.
How ridiculous indeed. Nobody's made that claim-but supposedly, that's what those who disagree with WD say.
I've never seen them post, but these people must be real idiots. If they ever post on the GSC, someone should let
me know so I can read them.
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oldiesman
Jen-o, if that is what you believe, then no problem. But the point is not moot. I'm not arguing against someone who believes the teachings are erroneous and false in and of themselves. That's your prerogative. What I'm arguing against is the idea that the teachings are false BECAUSE OF the sins of the teacher.
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year2027
God first
Beloved WordWolf, WhiteDove, jen-o, Sunesis, oldiesman, Ham
God loves you my dear friend
WordWolf - I love the way you explain it - looks like you guys are having fun debating -
WhiteDove - you made me laught thanks ("I guess I need to go back and do a background check on all my school teachers to see if they have some error in their life that makes the English, or Math they taught invalid. ") -looks like you guys are having fun debating -
jen-o - glad to see you adding to the fun debate they are having - yes peace -
Sunesis - I am not sure VPW was even good enough to be a devil spirit but that just me -
oldiesman - what little true there was because we are to be living examples of God's love and a hour here and there agains years of lyies make all this words questiable
Ham - good to have you add
thank you all
with love and a holy kiss blowing your ways Roy
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oldiesman
Yes it appears that's how some people think. Its loony. Its like someone successfully using the Autobahn for 20 years, then finding out that Adolph Hitler had them built, then they boycott them because Hitler was involved.
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