Maybe that's why they call this place a "vomitorium".
Read the ingredients for what you've just consumed.. you're gonna vomit..
just "too negative" I guess..
When I learned how to read, I once read the ingredients on a package of bologna.. they put some pretty nasty stuff in it in those days.. I never ate it again.
At least some of us realize there are some people here who are --- to put it in your own words, full of ... bologna. ...
Or do you raise it to heaven, bless it and feed the multitude with it like Rascal does?
Those winds are blowing in the opposite direction now. The only people who are going to “sign up” with twi nowadays are people who are bound to go down some OTHER hole if twi were to be utterly removed from the face of the earth.
recent developments would suggest that these vast holes you speak of are opening up that have a REMARKABLE resemblence to twi..
PFAL WAS THE EBOLA VIRUS AND WE WERE THE HOST!!!!!
THE WAY INTERNATIONAL IS A TOXIN ,THAT DESTROYS PEOPLES LIVES AND FAMILIES AN MUST BE CONTAINED AND
DESTROYED
Good analogy, Oklahoma. The world can be a treacherous place.
My meat is to do the will of the Father.
The connection between mad-cow disease and humans was discovered in Great Britain in the 1990s when several young people died from a new variation of a rare brain disorder. The victims had lived in areas where outbreaks of mad-cow disease in cattle had occurred. The British Government concluded that mad-cow disease was probably the cause of the brain disorder and that the victims contracted the disease probably by eating meat from infected cows…Be wise…stay away from infected meat.
Yes. It should be clear from the context. Are you familiar with the PFAL teaching on the four crucified?
How much simpler it would be if you just ANSWERED what was asked. As far as the PFAL book?? No that went to the trashola about 15 years ago.
Also to save time, PFAL is not God Breathed. What a heresy that you would think it is.
You wrote regarding the posting here that supposedly identifies errors in PFAL: “It's all in the Greek, Mike.”
What about Orientalisms and Ohioisms? What about Figures of speech? Could it be that you are exaggerating the value of your Greek learning? What about the Aramaic? What do you think of those who think the originals were in Aramaic and then translated into Greek a little later? Does that bother you?
Who care about Ohioisms? Puhleez! Name the Orientalism and figure of speech in that verse? Do tell! Or will I have to
wait another 150 posts for that answer
I had mentioned that I use an entirely different method of looking at the collaterals. I get different results. It's all in the method.
You responded with: “What would that be? One eye closed and the other squinted so tight that you can count your eyelashes?”
Is there any reason you want to be rough with me like that? Did I offend you or something?
It's not about roughness...but to think that PFAL collaterals are God breathed, then you would have to have one eye shut and the other one squinted up. There are plenty of REAL authors out there who can teach you how to properly exegete the Word of God. Your choice of course. Have you yet put
into a post (this is the first post I'm reading) what you set out to do. It is quite annoying to wait for something that you should have laid out with the
first or maybe the second post.
Hey, I like to talk serious here, but if you want to get into a pizzing contest I might think about doing a Zorba the Greek tap dance number on top of your table in between all your drinks there, and kick over one into your lap only at the very end.
But then again, maybe you can still learn something from my being more civil with you, so I’ll refrain. Besides, I’d rather teach the audience the Word than show off my theatrical skills.
Civil?? Your words belie you.
Well, then put down the orange book and actually show your stuff. It rather seems that this is all you wish to do, though you deny it. Like I said, first or second post and then we could have all posted our remarks. Pretty simple, doncha think.***
Ok, let’s start again.
You responded with: “What would that be? One eye closed and the other squinted so tight that you can count your eyelashes?”
What I do is one eye squinted so tight that I can count my eyelashes, and the OTHER closed.
Huh?
Wait a minute!
Doooooooooouuuuughhhhhhhhhh!
See what you made me do!
No, Mike, no one can make any other person do ANYTHING. Your remark shows the retardation that the agent orange book is leaving behind.
The method I use is the same thing we were taught in PFAL to do with ancient manuscripts and available texts. There are many elements to this method. I mentioned a few in passing above.
Yes, hurry up and dump the book you're way over due.
Here’s a specific example:
When a contradiction is encountered in PFAL, the method Raf & Co. (sorry Raf, you’ve been immortalized in my nomenclature now) is to pop a Champagne bottle after a little sorting through it’s validity. The method we were taught and I employ is to sort thorough it A LOT and forget about the Champagne.
My goal is to see when and where and how it fits, holding the assumption that SOMEHOW it must fit. We were taught that if it doesn’t fit after all known methods are employed you let it sit and wait. Dr taught us that sometimes he had a verse sitting in waiting for 15 years before God showed him how to handle it.
YES, WE'LL MAKE IT FIT....EVEN IF IT DOESN'T....OH YES....LET'S CUT OUT THE WORD....I DIDN'T LIKE THOSE LITTLE "IF'S" ANYWAY!
When I withdrew the italics approach you wrote: “Hedging are we?”
No. I said several times that the self contradiction is minor compared to the contextual violation.
Why can't you just "out" with what you know or think you know? You seem to think it is a pedagogical device to make the audience wait. It's an infantile device. Either you have it or you don't.
I mentioned that I think most posters on this thread shoved that entire passage under the rug 25 and 35 years ago because of the chills of verse 17a.
You responded with: “You know why people tried to ignore it? Cause deep down that Holy Spirit thing was convicting away, asking each and every one of us what we were building?”
Speak for yourself, John. I was building something different than you were.
JOHN??? Who is that?
convicting conschmicting
The LAST thing in life I needed was to be convicted of my sin. The RCs are WAY ahead of you and all Protestants in threatening people into heaven. I had nightmares of hell as early as the 3nd grade. There were vestiges of RC condemnation that cropped up in my head as late as two years ago. Probably STILL some in there.
That's what the job of the Holy Spirit if for? Oh, yes....now I remember....the orange thingamajob TURNED the Holy Spirit into an IT. Much easier to shush up an IT than a person of the Trinity.
I was building a relationship with the Father and His Son. And the way verse 3:17a was fixed for me helped me all the more. I don’t want a god who’s a mere fire escape from hell. And I don’t think God wants me to view him that way either. I want a Father like Jesus had! I dont want a god who would destroy me if I sin like 17aKJV threatens. The god you are describing seems pretty common, traditional, and miserable. The old man the bird and the hippie. If you want to convince me of THAT value and validity you’ll have to get in line... a LONG line... yawn
Oh, do quote me, Puhleez, WHERE I MADE ANY DESCRIPTIONS OF MY GOD???? The orange book probably has a cut and paste chapter in there
I've "dumped" every bit of way, pfal materials.. etc.. only one thing left.. the notebook bible that has a complete copy of the 62 page syllabus, all kinds of junk..
any takers before it goes to the town "gehenna"?
can't have my Bullinger bible. It has absolutely NO added notes in it..
hi fellow greasespotters!...........i'm preparing for an eagerly anticipated reunion of sorts with a couple of old friends from counselling services of ohio......a project we participated in together over 20 years ago!...........it's late, i'm tired, and work looms ever closer at 0645 this morning........so please excuse another probably too lengthy post!
mike...........the originator of this thread, nathan friedly, a cff fellowlaborer, did hear my questions, but has chosen to answer only 2 so far........and, his second answer was just a blatant lie(perhaps unintentional)............."no link"...........he stated in his last post of 12/27/07, that he will "pop in" here sporadically.........my questions concerning cff and its leadership remain unanswered, in spite of the fact that i have been "unusually" patient "about getting answers"!.......at the risk of seeming to you to be "unusually impatient at times about getting answers", i'd like to point out that you still have not answered T-Bone's requests for 5 "explanations", 1 "identification", and 1 "demonstration", as listed in his post #423 on this thread........nor my questions to you on post #425, nor a number of specific questions asked by brideofjc............you may have answered some of ham's questions, and maybe doojable's.............but i'm not really sure.
to answer your question to me in your post #446, .........i never had any "problen" with 1cor3:17, that required "reconciling" "back in the good old days", and i have even less of a need for doing so today.
your "assumption" that the pfal book and "the collaterals" are "god-breathed" is the major "problen" i have with attempting to engage you in meaningful dialogue regarding the realities of vic's teachings, and their practical application in his "ministry" to twi followers. "assumptions" imply a willingness to pose further questions in order to determine the veracity of that which is assumed.........as you probably know, asumptions are the building blocks of hypotheses, not the proof of them. when you make statements like, "i'm not looking to prove that pfal is god-breathed; i am now at the point that i assume it's god-breathed. the proof took place decades ago and is done.".........you are unintentionally confusing the building blocks of your "pfal hypothesis" with the "proof" thereof, imho. your "assumption" that the pfal book and "the collaterals" are "god-breathed" is not an "assumption", but, rather, it is your firmly held belief, your irrefutable conviction...........please don't "assume" that i'm just "nit-picking" semantics with you......that is not at all what i'm trying to do here........i am simply stating, in order to clarify for myself, and perhaps other readers, what you are telling us........i am not asking you to recount or elaborate upon "the proof", which, for you, "took place decades ago and is done", because i am "assuming" that this was a detailed and lengthy personal process which you have probably explained here at the greasespot in some of your many previous posts.
as you well know, i do not share your "assumptions", nor your firm belief, or irrefutable conviction that pfal is "god-breathed". i too have gone through a detailed, lengthy process of "re-searching" and re-examining the scriptures, vic's written works, those of vic's "teachers" (bullinger, leonard, stiles, welch, kenyon, lamsa, clark, mosely, roberts, rinker, et al), as well as numerous theologians, philosophers, scientists, and other "critical thinkers", and yet, i have arrived at a point directly opposite from you regarding the "god-breathed" staus of vic's written works. the "method" i try to use is one capsulized in a quote of one of my favorite "critical thinkers", albert einstein, "learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. the important thing is not to stop questioning."...........you have the absolute right, imho, to believe or "assume" whatever you choose to.... so do i......i do not have the right to demand that you believe as i do, nor do you have the right to demand from me that i believe as you do.......we have the right to disagree..........perhaps we both feel that, indeed, we each have the responsibility to voice those disagreements, and, if so,.....we can both be thankful that the greasespot cafe and its "management" provides us a public forum in which we can do so through civil discourse.......twi, cff, ces/stf, word promotions, and the rest of their ilk do not have the intellectual honesty, nor the moral courage to allow any such discussion or dissent at all!!
i "assume" pfal to be as "god-breathed" as the book of mormon, the roman catholic catechism, the excathedra proclamations of the roman catholic popes.....(sorry excie!!....did'nt mean to use your name in vain!.....hehehe)....the writings of martin luther, the wesley brothers, charles russell, mary baker eddy, john knox, john calvin, joseph smith, brigham young, martin luther king jr., mohandas k. gandhi, buddha, mohammad, malcolm x, bruce metzger, f.f. bruce, noam chomsky, joseph campbell, bertrand russell, albert einstein, stephen hawking, carl sagan, j.r. tolkien, walt disney, steven spielberg and the beatles!..............and many others you or anyone else wants to add to that brief list (i stopped to save a little bandwidth, not to slight anyone!.......lol).........in that glorious day, when we will know god even as we are known by him.......then we will know for sure, once and for all eternity, what was written by the finger or the breath of god, and what was not!.......OH HAPPY DAY!!!
i suppose i'll ask my questions of cff and "rev" clapp on ham's "here we go again" thread.........maybe they'll be more "on topic" over there..........in the meantime......i'd like to close this post with an observation.........again, just my opinion..........i thought mike's post #499 on this "long and winding thread", was the most clear, honest, compassionate and reality-based post he's made of all the posts of his i've read!.......i sincerely hope, mike, that you fully appreciate and remember how you came up with that post, and rejoice at the response it evoked from the rascal you addressed it to!....................peace.
hi fellow greasespotters!...........i'm preparing for an eagerly anticipated reunion of sorts with a couple of old friends from counselling services of ohio......a project we participated in together over 20 years ago!...........it's late, i'm tired, and work looms ever closer at 0645 this morning........so please excuse another probably too lengthy post!
mike...........the originator of this thread, nathan friedly, a cff fellowlaborer, did hear my questions, but has chosen to answer only 2 so far........and, his second answer was just a blatant lie(perhaps unintentional)............."no link"...........he stated in his last post of 12/27/07, that he will "pop in" here sporadically.........my questions concerning cff and its leadership remain unanswered, in spite of the fact that i have been "unusually" patient "about getting answers"!.......
Hi Don'tWorryBe Happy,
Sorry. I wasn’t paying attention to the thread during those pages, so I missed a lot. I did try some catch up reading, but totally missed you being stiffed. Sorry.
To make it up to you, I quoted your whole demand so it gets extra air time, free of charge. That’s one of the perks we old timer posters enjoy here, we can repeat other people’s posts like that. Kinda like the way congressmen do favors for each other.
If you would hang around here a little more (subliminalwifilaptop) you could get a hold of these powerful media bells and whistles just like us.
Just between you and me... here’s another thing you can do with the reply button: if someone you don’t like posts something rash, you can quote them real quick and they can NEVER edit it! It really makes you think sometimes before you hit the "post" button for your own stuff, though, yuck yuk.
If you get the feeling I’m trying to recruit you, you’re right. Come on down, the water’s fine... or something like that...
at the risk of seeming to you to be "unusually impatient at times about getting answers", i'd like to point out that you still have not answered T-Bone's requests for 5 "explanations", 1 "identification", and 1 "demonstration", as listed in his post #423 on this thread........nor my questions to you on post #425, nor a number of specific questions asked by brideofjc............you may have answered some of ham's questions, and maybe doojable's.............but i'm not really sure.
I’m fixin’ to. We’ve covered a lot of ground here on this thread. And also the “pressed down music” thread too. To a slight degree, my answers are spread out on this thread and on that and become MUCH more apparent to those who have been following along with their KJVs, Concordances, Interlinears, and other notes.
to answer your question to me in your post #446, .........i never had any "problen" with 1cor3:17, that required "reconciling" "back in the good old days", and i have even less of a need for doing so today.
You’re not alone. It seems this passage is a “first timer” for a lot of grads. This happens a lot here with things I bring up. It kinda fits into my theme that we all missed a lot or forgot a lot of the good stuff in print, as well as many other positives. I keep un stumbling on major gaps in everyone’s knowledge. It’s been a wild 5 years and 5 thousand posts, I’ll tell you!
your "assumption" that the pfal book and "the collaterals" are "god-breathed" is the major "problen" i have with attempting to engage you in meaningful dialogue regarding the realities of vic's teachings, and their practical application in his "ministry" to twi followers.
You’re not alone.
But some here have learned to accept the particular mix of stands I have put together for myself. I think we can talk. I know you can be quite intelligent and reasonable. I don’t blame you at all for your consternation, but it will wear off and you’ll be in a better mind to assimilate what I lay out for you. I’m in no rush.
"assumptions" imply a willingness to pose further questions in order to determine the veracity of that which is assumed........
For a time, yes. But about a decade ago near 50th birthday (or thereabouts) I decided it was time to take a strong stand for the rest of my days (hopefully the NEXT half century) on what I had and if God saw fit to add any more, fine. So, my Moody Blues days of searching are over. Your assumption is wrong with my case. My mind is closed on THAT issue.
.as you probably know, asumptions are the building blocks of hypotheses, not the proof of them.
Yes, like Euclid’s Geometry, and higher maths.
when you make statements like, "i'm not looking to prove that pfal is god-breathed; i am now at the point that i assume it's god-breathed. the proof took place decades ago and is done.".........; you are unintentionally confusing the building blocks of your "pfal hypothesis" with the "proof" thereof,
This is a tricky step here. I'd have to clarify terms with you a little more before I can answer this best. The proof is something between me and God and it's spread out over time in some ways.
Regarding "unintentionally confusing the building blocks" I'd need to know better what you mean to directly comment more.
What we've found within PFAL may surprise you. Like the "problem" with I Cor 3: 17 ( I peaked ahead) was new to you, I'll bet there are many more things in there that are new to you. We forgot a lot and missed a lot in the shuffle.
I believe this somewhat hidden material was put into the record in ways and places so that it would re-surface today, and the books as a result are even more valuable to us nowadays as they were back then. The printed material was a team effort, spread out over many, many decades when you include Dr's teachers. (Yes, we've been through the plagiarism charges a hundred times here) There is just so much to this story it will take some time to sort it out, rather than doing it all here.
imho. your "assumption" the pfal book and "the collaterals" are "god-breathed" is not an "assumption", but, rather, it is your firmly held belief, your irrefutable conviction...........
Both.
please don't "assume" that i'm just "nit-picking" semantics with you......that is not at all what i'm trying to do here........i am simply stating, in order to clarify for myself, and perhaps other readers, what you are telling us........
Yes. I’ve done this several times here.
i am not asking you to recount or elaborate upon "the proof", which, for you, "took place decades ago and is done", because i am "assuming" that this was a detailed and lengthy personal process I’ve explained THAT, what you said, that it “was a detailed and lengthy personal process.” I wish you were her back then! It was like pulling teeth to get some to understand that. You would have made it easier for me.
which you have probably explained here at the greasespot in some of your many previous posts.
No, I didn’t get that specific. Once in a while a detail is pertinent, so some has leaked out. I do like to get into the general subject of proof and surety here.
as you well know, i do not share your "assumptions", nor your firm belief, or irreutable conviction that pfal is "god-breathed".
Hardly ANYONE here shares my entire set of assumptions and/or principles. But there is some overlap with some, and some of can still get pretty deep into detailed discussions with me. I don’ like it when food fights break out, but when one does or threatens I know how to take care of myself.
i too have gone through a detailed, lengthy process of "re-searching" and re-examining the scriptures, vic's written works, those of vic's "teachers" (bullinger, leonard, stiles, welch, kenyon, lamsa, clark, mosely, roberts, rinker, et al), as well as numerous theologians philosophers, scientists, and other "critical thinkers", and yet, i have arrived at a point directly opposite from you regarding the "god-breathed" staus of vic's written works.
Yes. Different methods.
the "method" i try to use is one capsulized in a quote of one of my favorite "critical thinkers", albert einstein, "learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. the important thing is not to stop questioning."
Dr’s very last magazine writing to us TWICE urged us to ask ourselves about EVERYTHING we believe: (paraphrasing) where did we get that teaching from, who taught it to us, and why do we believe it.
I’ve had a lot of practice doing this. It’s how Einstein and many other physicists approached some baffling mysteries 100 years ago. They questioned ALL of their fundamental assumptions. This was the case both in Relativity and in Quantum, pretty much simultaneously, to pull a Relativity pun. ;)
I taught a seminar for one year while I was a senior in High school on Relativity and then went on to study physics at Stony Brook. Since then it’s a long loved hobby I dust off at times. In recent years I’ve done 5 and 10 minute stand-up open mic presentations of Relativity for Poets in bars and coffee shops.
Hey, I have a thread here on why a mirror reverses left and right but not up and down. Want to see it?/
...........you have the absolute right, imho, to believe or "assume" whatever you choose to.... so do i......i do not have the right to demand that you believe as i do, nor do you have the right to demand from me that i believe as you do.......we have the right to disagree..........perhaps we both feel that, indeed, we each have the responsibility to voice those disagreements, and, if so,.....we can both be thankful that the greasespot cafe and its "management" provides us a public forum in which we can do so through civil discourse.......twi, cff, ces/stf, word promotions, and the rest of their ilk do not have the intellectual honesty, nor the moral courage to allow any such discussion or dissent at all!!
BRAVO!!!
i "assume" pfal to be as "god-breathed" as the book of mormon, the roman catholic catechism, the excathedra proclamations of the roman catholic popes.....(sorry excie!!....did'nt mean to use your name in vain!.....
That was MILD. You be amazed the stepping on toes that USED to go on here 5 years ago. Again, BRAVO! this time to Pawtucket, for the way he tamed this place.
hehehe)....the writings of martin luther, the wesley brothers, charles russell, mary baker eddy, john knox, john calvin, joseph smith, brigham young, martin luther king jr., mohandas k. gandhi, buddha, mohammad, malcolm x, bruce metzger, f.f. bruce, noam chomsky, joseph campbell, bertrand russell, albert einstein, stephen hawking, carl sagan, j.r. tolkien, walt disney, steven spielberg and the beatles!..............and many others you or anyone else wants to add to that brief list (i stopped to save a little bandwidth, not to slight anyone!.......lol).........
During the period 1987 to 1998 I became an amateur historian of the 60’s, which dragged in the Beatnik 50’s with it. I collected and researched books and videos. My research started during the 20th anniversary of the Summer of Love so I taped documentary after documentary and found many magazine articles and books. I interviewed Ken Kesey, Wavy Gravy and many more. I read the hippie and Beat classics. I discussed "On the Road" and other things with Jimmy Doop for weeks. Listened to the music again and branched out into many other tangential topics.
The reason I did all this... hold on to your hat... was because in 1987 I saw that the jocks and suits had run the ministry into the ground on the field. The hippies were all either out or behind a desk. I figured that Dr’s ministry burst out of Ohio in 1969 from the hippie infusion... the ministry fell with the demise of the hippies element inthe mix we had... (...what a great mix: the Jews and Gentiles arm in arm, the hippies and the rednecks hand in hand....) ... let’s see... ... hippies in = GOOD... hippies out = BAD... hmmmmmm! BINGO!
What WAS that magical hippie element that made the ministry zing all about? I had to have the answer! I was on a mission from God... for ten years or so and it all fell apart.
I had many other theories and many (mis)adventures proving them wrong during that decade, along with lots of learning.
Then I was shown Dr’s Last/Lost Teaching and it all changed. The more I looked into WRITTEN pfal the more things got put together again. I felt just like Robert Conrad when he turned that last corner and there through the snow was a familiar arch of the mountains stone... it was the PASSAGE! This was finally IT, the passage back to... The snow is all melted in this half of the tunnel through the mountain tip, the valley below.... It’s glowing!... It’s Shangri-La!.... music... tears... credits... stretch.... yawn.......
in that glorious day, when we will know god even as we are known by him......
Yeah! That’s what I was just talking about... kinda....
.then we will know for sure, once and for all etenity, what was written by the fingeror the breath of god, and what was not!.......OH HAPPY DAY!!!
WHEN JESUS WALKED!
clap your hands!
i suppose i'll ask my questions of cff and "rev" clapp on ham's "here we go again" thread........
I’ve tried to get through to them too; maybe some other time I will.
.maybe they'll be more "on topic" over there..........
Sorry for my contribution to that. I didn’t jump in until it was already pretty rambily.
in the meantime......i'd like to close this post with an observation.........again, just my opinion..........i thought mike's post #499 on this "long and winding thread", was the most clear, honest, compassionate and reality-based post he's made of all the posts of his i've read!.......i sincerely hope, mike, that you fully appreciate and remember how you came up with that post, and rejoice at the response it evoked from the rascal you addressed it to!....................peace.
Gosh, thanks R... I mean Mac!
Sincerely, I want to do that kind of thing a lot more than I am successful at, but you’ve encouraged me to press on for more. Yes, I did rejoice GREATLY to see the response from rascal.
I've "dumped" every bit of way, pfal materials.. etc.. only one thing left.. the notebook bible that has a complete copy of the 62 page syllabus, all kinds of junk..
any takers before it goes to the town "gehenna"?
can't have my Bullinger bible. It has absolutely NO added notes in it..
:)
I think the only thing (I think) that I still have is sheet music printed, but anything that was written and issued directly by TWI, I removed
from the looseleaf binder. The only ones I kept from it are the old Gospel songs, like Amazing Grace, etc.
When I think of the money I flushed down the toilet and how many starving Ethiopian children I could have fed.... (sigh)
.......at the risk of seeming to you to be "unusually impatient at times about getting answers", i'd like to point out that you still have not answered T-Bone's requests for 5 "explanations", 1 "identification", and 1 "demonstration", as listed in his post #423 on this thread........nor my questions to you on post #425, nor a number of specific questions asked by brideofjc............you may have answered some of ham's questions, and maybe doojable's.............but i'm not really sure...
Mike post # 521
I'm fixin' to. We've covered a lot of ground here on this thread. And also the "pressed down music" thread too. To a slight degree, my answers are spread out on this thread and on that and become MUCH more apparent to those who have been following along with their KJVs, Concordances, Interlinears, and other notes.
Mike, when you make statements like this, you come across as someone who is deluded and/or is trying to pull a fast one on folks. Please be honest and upfront in this discussion. You say you're "fixin' to" address the 7 items of my post # 423 – I would just appreciate some honesty on your part…Instead of making another claim that your answers to the 7 items are spread out on this thread – though hidden they're just waiting to be uncovered ala Nicholas Cage in National Treasure…Just speak the truth. If you need more time to retrieve your old research notes – just say so. Or if you think my post is not even worthy of your time, just say so. Or if you care to revise your claims – please do so.
Mike, I am sorry to be such a stickler for simple/honest communication. Whenever it's not like that – there's the potential for it to jack with people's heads – I speak from my TWI-experience days…On a personal note [and on topic with this thread]: After leaving TWI - it was a BIG step toward deliverance when I forgave myself for being so gullible.
WD-- I wasn't clear, my bad. I wasn't thinking about mike when I posted that(I can't read his posts, drive me too nuts)-- I was thinking about the handful of posters who mentioned Rascal, whose posts seem to get them all crazed.
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rascal
Why do you have a problem with Christian morals??
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What The Hey
At least some of us realize there are some people here who are --- to put it in your own words, full of ... bologna. ...
Or do you raise it to heaven, bless it and feed the multitude with it like Rascal does?
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rascal
I don`t see why anybody would have a problem with that.
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rascal
Good analogy.......twi HAS been hemoraging out every orface :)
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Ham
recent developments would suggest that these vast holes you speak of are opening up that have a REMARKABLE resemblence to twi..
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Mike
Yes, they hold on to some of their TVTs but drift farther from the collaterals every year.
They have nothing resembling the outreach excitement and numbers we saw decades ago, though.
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doojable
Thunder seems to have cleared....
Sunny skies ahead. :)
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T-Bone
Good analogy, Oklahoma. The world can be a treacherous place.
The connection between mad-cow disease and humans was discovered in Great Britain in the 1990s when several young people died from a new variation of a rare brain disorder. The victims had lived in areas where outbreaks of mad-cow disease in cattle had occurred. The British Government concluded that mad-cow disease was probably the cause of the brain disorder and that the victims contracted the disease probably by eating meat from infected cows…Be wise…stay away from infected meat.
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Mike
I hope you're a prophet, because I could use the work. It's pretty rainy here.
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brideofjc
Oh, do quote me, Puhleez, WHERE I MADE ANY DESCRIPTIONS OF MY GOD???? The orange book probably has a cut and paste chapter in there
somewhere.
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Ham
I've "dumped" every bit of way, pfal materials.. etc.. only one thing left.. the notebook bible that has a complete copy of the 62 page syllabus, all kinds of junk..
any takers before it goes to the town "gehenna"?
can't have my Bullinger bible. It has absolutely NO added notes in it..
:)
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Bramble
Hmmm, maybe some of the pFAlers need to do some forgiving of certain GSC posters. I detect some bitterness and anger...
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excathedra
i just be drifting and drifting farther from the collaterals every year.....
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Mike
Hang on ma'am!
I'll save you!
I'll just tear my shirt into strips, tie them together, and throw you a line_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
;)
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excathedra
mike, i love you, but you're being silly
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Mike
Ok, all seriousness aside...
...want me to start quoting verses?
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excathedra
NO
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J0nny Ling0
Oh come on Excie, let him quote a few! :)
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DontWorryBeHappy
hi fellow greasespotters!...........i'm preparing for an eagerly anticipated reunion of sorts with a couple of old friends from counselling services of ohio......a project we participated in together over 20 years ago!...........it's late, i'm tired, and work looms ever closer at 0645 this morning........so please excuse another probably too lengthy post!
mike...........the originator of this thread, nathan friedly, a cff fellowlaborer, did hear my questions, but has chosen to answer only 2 so far........and, his second answer was just a blatant lie(perhaps unintentional)............."no link"...........he stated in his last post of 12/27/07, that he will "pop in" here sporadically.........my questions concerning cff and its leadership remain unanswered, in spite of the fact that i have been "unusually" patient "about getting answers"!.......at the risk of seeming to you to be "unusually impatient at times about getting answers", i'd like to point out that you still have not answered T-Bone's requests for 5 "explanations", 1 "identification", and 1 "demonstration", as listed in his post #423 on this thread........nor my questions to you on post #425, nor a number of specific questions asked by brideofjc............you may have answered some of ham's questions, and maybe doojable's.............but i'm not really sure.
to answer your question to me in your post #446, .........i never had any "problen" with 1cor3:17, that required "reconciling" "back in the good old days", and i have even less of a need for doing so today.
your "assumption" that the pfal book and "the collaterals" are "god-breathed" is the major "problen" i have with attempting to engage you in meaningful dialogue regarding the realities of vic's teachings, and their practical application in his "ministry" to twi followers. "assumptions" imply a willingness to pose further questions in order to determine the veracity of that which is assumed.........as you probably know, asumptions are the building blocks of hypotheses, not the proof of them. when you make statements like, "i'm not looking to prove that pfal is god-breathed; i am now at the point that i assume it's god-breathed. the proof took place decades ago and is done.".........you are unintentionally confusing the building blocks of your "pfal hypothesis" with the "proof" thereof, imho. your "assumption" that the pfal book and "the collaterals" are "god-breathed" is not an "assumption", but, rather, it is your firmly held belief, your irrefutable conviction...........please don't "assume" that i'm just "nit-picking" semantics with you......that is not at all what i'm trying to do here........i am simply stating, in order to clarify for myself, and perhaps other readers, what you are telling us........i am not asking you to recount or elaborate upon "the proof", which, for you, "took place decades ago and is done", because i am "assuming" that this was a detailed and lengthy personal process which you have probably explained here at the greasespot in some of your many previous posts.
as you well know, i do not share your "assumptions", nor your firm belief, or irrefutable conviction that pfal is "god-breathed". i too have gone through a detailed, lengthy process of "re-searching" and re-examining the scriptures, vic's written works, those of vic's "teachers" (bullinger, leonard, stiles, welch, kenyon, lamsa, clark, mosely, roberts, rinker, et al), as well as numerous theologians, philosophers, scientists, and other "critical thinkers", and yet, i have arrived at a point directly opposite from you regarding the "god-breathed" staus of vic's written works. the "method" i try to use is one capsulized in a quote of one of my favorite "critical thinkers", albert einstein, "learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. the important thing is not to stop questioning."...........you have the absolute right, imho, to believe or "assume" whatever you choose to.... so do i......i do not have the right to demand that you believe as i do, nor do you have the right to demand from me that i believe as you do.......we have the right to disagree..........perhaps we both feel that, indeed, we each have the responsibility to voice those disagreements, and, if so,.....we can both be thankful that the greasespot cafe and its "management" provides us a public forum in which we can do so through civil discourse.......twi, cff, ces/stf, word promotions, and the rest of their ilk do not have the intellectual honesty, nor the moral courage to allow any such discussion or dissent at all!!
i "assume" pfal to be as "god-breathed" as the book of mormon, the roman catholic catechism, the excathedra proclamations of the roman catholic popes.....(sorry excie!!....did'nt mean to use your name in vain!.....hehehe)....the writings of martin luther, the wesley brothers, charles russell, mary baker eddy, john knox, john calvin, joseph smith, brigham young, martin luther king jr., mohandas k. gandhi, buddha, mohammad, malcolm x, bruce metzger, f.f. bruce, noam chomsky, joseph campbell, bertrand russell, albert einstein, stephen hawking, carl sagan, j.r. tolkien, walt disney, steven spielberg and the beatles!..............and many others you or anyone else wants to add to that brief list (i stopped to save a little bandwidth, not to slight anyone!.......lol).........in that glorious day, when we will know god even as we are known by him.......then we will know for sure, once and for all eternity, what was written by the finger or the breath of god, and what was not!.......OH HAPPY DAY!!!
i suppose i'll ask my questions of cff and "rev" clapp on ham's "here we go again" thread.........maybe they'll be more "on topic" over there..........in the meantime......i'd like to close this post with an observation.........again, just my opinion..........i thought mike's post #499 on this "long and winding thread", was the most clear, honest, compassionate and reality-based post he's made of all the posts of his i've read!.......i sincerely hope, mike, that you fully appreciate and remember how you came up with that post, and rejoice at the response it evoked from the rascal you addressed it to!....................peace.
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Mike
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brideofjc
I think the only thing (I think) that I still have is sheet music printed, but anything that was written and issued directly by TWI, I removed
from the looseleaf binder. The only ones I kept from it are the old Gospel songs, like Amazing Grace, etc.
When I think of the money I flushed down the toilet and how many starving Ethiopian children I could have fed.... (sigh)
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brideofjc
Hey Bramble,
I know you're not speaking of me....I most definitely am not a PFALer
That's a slur that's tantamount to the loose glove slapped in someone's face
or throwing the gauntlet down.
But I guess if you ever want to truly insult someone, there's always this line: "Why...you...you...PFALer you!"
It's just irritating that someone would waste so much bandwidth on the internet and allude that they have some new and powerful
heavy revvy but then oh so quaintly refuse to post it, which then bespeaks that they never had it to begin with and it most
definitely will not hold up to the eye of exegetical scrutiny, which the real biblical world knows how to do without plagiarizing and
duping poor folks into believing they now know how. Funny, isn't it...no wonder they didn't want us to read outside of their works.
The cold hard light of the morning after tells it all!
Yeah....Hey Mike, why don't you try 1 Corinthians 3:17????
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T-Bone
Mike, when you make statements like this, you come across as someone who is deluded and/or is trying to pull a fast one on folks. Please be honest and upfront in this discussion. You say you're "fixin' to" address the 7 items of my post # 423 – I would just appreciate some honesty on your part…Instead of making another claim that your answers to the 7 items are spread out on this thread – though hidden they're just waiting to be uncovered ala Nicholas Cage in National Treasure…Just speak the truth. If you need more time to retrieve your old research notes – just say so. Or if you think my post is not even worthy of your time, just say so. Or if you care to revise your claims – please do so.
Mike, I am sorry to be such a stickler for simple/honest communication. Whenever it's not like that – there's the potential for it to jack with people's heads – I speak from my TWI-experience days…On a personal note [and on topic with this thread]: After leaving TWI - it was a BIG step toward deliverance when I forgave myself for being so gullible.
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Bramble
WD-- I wasn't clear, my bad. I wasn't thinking about mike when I posted that(I can't read his posts, drive me too nuts)-- I was thinking about the handful of posters who mentioned Rascal, whose posts seem to get them all crazed.
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