Cman, going to slightly de-rail this thread here for you, just because The Title seems to be such an interesting universal concept for potential abuse on a rainy Saturday, and no one has yet responded to it directly?? Anyway...
(Please don't yell at me if you can help it!)
Question: What do folks think "the truth" is regarding TWI listening to all the "Voices" here at GS? If the tree has fallen in the forest, is anyone really out there listening to all the voices of discontent being expressed here? Or are we just talking and arguing amongst ourselves??
I wonder what people at TWI & CES, etc., REALLY think about HOW viewpoints get expressed here? Do they think that what is spoken about on GS is really the "truth"? Or do they view people here as dysfunctional cult remnants ranting and repeating over and over the same old stories just to bring attention to themselves??
What is "the Truth", are those inside TWI really paying any interest to the GS trees in the forest?? :unsure:
GSC is here to help us and those who listen from twi or anywhere else imo.
I don't know what people think.....mostly.
The honest ones will be honest.
The only mind I can control is my own.
So I do what I can to have self control.
So that the spirit can be heard and seen.
Cman, my point relates more directly to the "mission statement" of GS being a morning cup of Coffee for TWI (ces). Is there a message being sent here from GS which is going to wake ANYONE up in TWI to..."cult" reality??
Or is the internal attack warfare between people here, under the guise of "healing", making this site just a postmortem exercise of more cult waybrain anger & confusion?
Is there a message being sent here from GS which is going to wake ANYONE up in TWI to..."cult" reality??
yes there is. I was in twi and I was miserable with no way to break free. this site and the experiences of people who made it out helped me break free and start over.
Or is the internal attack warfare between people here, under the guise of "healing", making this site just a postmortem exercise of more cult waybrain anger & confusion?
in my corporate jobs, the postmortem exercise was an important wrap for any product release, to analyze what went right and what went wrong. anything big, like involvement in a cult for one year or twenty, can take a while to understand, come to grips with, recover from. typically the results of a post-mortem are recorded for all to see, so everyone can learn from it if they want to. you also have the choice to ignore what's here and go somewhere else, bumpy.
twi's campaigns for their Truth and Love products should go through the postmortem process and customer testimonials and feedback will naturally be a part of the process.
twi's campaigns for their Truth and Love products should go through the postmortem process and customer testimonials and feedback will naturally be a part of the process.
We know that, it goes without saying. But getting back to the subject... Does anyone at TWI or CES who might be listening to these "testimonials", feel that GS (as an "invisible" Internet vehicle), plays a real source of MOTIVATION for people to "see the light" for their Cult Exit Strategy?
For some, this is a better place. For others who leave, it may not be? For posters who NEVER leave GS, it may be the ONLY place they have to go?
We know that, it goes without saying. But getting back to the subject... Does anyone at TWI or CES who might be listening to these "testimonials", feel that GS (as an "invisible" Internet vehicle), plays a real source of MOTIVATION for people to "see the light" for their Cult Exit Strategy?
For some, this is a better place. For others who leave, it may not be? For posters who NEVER leave GS, it may be the ONLY place they have to go?
I know first hand that twi felt threatened by this website. top leadership directed us innies to never visit lest we become possessed by the same spirits the GS'ers are possessed with... it actually started out around the time of the waydale site I believe... and they may not care so much anymore since they don't seem to need ABS anymore to maintain their lifestyle, but right before I left some hard-core long-time innies were bashing this site and everyone on it at a branch meeting.
I know first hand that twi felt threatened by this website. top leadership directed us innies to never visit lest we become possessed by the same spirits the GS'ers are possessed with... it actually started out around the time of the waydale site I believe... and they may not care so much anymore since they don't seem to need ABS anymore to maintain their lifestyle, but right before I left some hard-core long-time innies were bashing this site and everyone on it at a branch meeting.
And this is the reason exactly why we must refer to those things that are proven as such and those that are not as such. Regardless of what we may believe personally. When that does not happen it becomes very easy to point out that people are misrepresenting the facts, it makes their job easy to point out that there are nothing but liars here. On the other hand when things are factual and referred to as they should be in a public format then they have nothing to discredit. I'm sure some will point out that they will discredit things anyway so who cares, and that may be true but they will have less to work with when we are factual.
We know that, it goes without saying. But getting back to the subject... Does anyone at TWI or CES who might be listening to these "testimonials", feel that GS (as an "invisible" Internet vehicle), plays a real source of MOTIVATION for people to "see the light" for their Cult Exit Strategy?
To get that answer you'd have to go to those who are in TWI. You already got one answer, from potato.
What do you think bumpy? Is the mission statement of GS being realized? Yes/No?
How something is expressed is important, no question about it.
Myself, I don't care if anyone in TWI reads, hears or listens to anything I write here. If they're out surfin' the web and looking at GS, they have their reasons for doing so. I don't know what those are and can't pretend to address anyone's specific interests or questions. If someone came hare and posted something, I could try to post a response to that.
I read some posts here and can't relate the experiences to anything I experienced in TWI. Other stuff is a lot like it, the same, maybe even better. I certainly wasn't perfect and can't claim doing more than my best, at best and sometimes less than that. What you saw is what you got.
GS as a website provides a certain amount of information from it's homepage. The Forum is a part of the site for discussion of all kinds for many different reasons.
I think it's unrealistic to expect or require that these exchanges focus entirely on relating to members of TWI in some form or fashion that is most likely to insure a receptive response. No one knows exactly what a specific person is looking for. It would be disingenuous to craft posts in such as way as to try and make them "Wayfer Friendly".
The board itself only asks for some basic things - be courteous and reasonably civil. Don't rant and rail on others, follow them around and always keep nagging on certain people with the same kinds of posts that are really thinly veiled restatements of the same thing made over and over and over so obviousy that a blind goldfish could tell what the intent is. Don't ask loaded questions and act surprised and insulted when they backfire. That kind of thing, nothing really difficult. Avoid picking at people and stuff over and over because at some point, someone's going to take that pick and put it where the sun don't shine. And then things get ugly, big surprise there. But it's obvious from time to time that's what some posters like to do - ruffle people's feathers and waste people's time.
People that are in the Way are probably in the Way because there's something there they like. If they found out other information that they didn't know, it could effect their decisions to continue being involved. Maybe maybe not. There's no accounting for what people will do, when you don't know who they are, what they want, what they need or what they're interested in.
What do you think bumpy? Is the mission statement of GS being realized? Yes/No?
Difficult to come up with a simple yes/no answer. The Cult WayBrain is a complicated mindset. As you say, those that are innies, whether TWI or CES, are "members" for a reason. The need to belong to an avant gard Bible group, or the fear of leaving one might play a role?
Most here I believe joined in their youth wanting to "serve" God in a pre-Internet era which sounds innocent enough. Emotional bars of fear (El Diablo), rejection or peer/family pressures probably kept some in longer than they would have liked.
Whether GS plays any kind of motivational exit role today would be difficult to prove. I think for the most part this is just a chat room of invisible Avatar people trying to reconnect with lost friends, work out past issues, play TV games or mentally masturbate what "might have been"?
As a morning "cup of reality"...that might be stretching it a bit?
I guess your motivational exit role wasn`t enough potato. Trust me, you are not the only one that we have celebrated their successful exit from twi...Nottawayfer, Belle, Abby to name a few just off the top of my head :)
Bumpy, having just been here a few months is obviously an expert on how many people were able to leave twi once finding this spot and found the answers needed to break away.
I know that after way dale came out, and gs a year later....membership dropped from 25,000 to currently less than 5, 000.
Cman, it is an excellent observation, thanks for sharing it with us. I hope that it`s intent doesn`t get lost in the derail.
Madam Rodent, from the black belt school of bravado! <_<
I was just trying to answer a question by Socks. I'm certainly not pretending to be an "expert"!
But since you're up to about 6.000 repetitious posts of pretty much non-stop aggressive complaining since 2002...
Could you please inform the viewer audience, in your expert opinion, how YOU know Waydale or GS, are responsible for the claims you make in membership exits at TWI? :unsure:
(Btw, what does a Rodent do in a cult anyway? Peel potatoes, laundry??)
Trying to push buttons Bumpy?
I doubt if it will work.
No one has claimed that waydale and greasespot are the sole reason for anyone exiting twi.
I didn't find waydale till after I left twi.
And then Greasespot began.
It has helped me in many ways.
Ways that can not even be put in words.
Am I stuck here?
No. But by choice I visit and post.
Much different then the intentions and tactics of twi involvement.
There are no tactics here to keep people listening or posting.
Have you ever read some of these head lines in the magazines considered "rags"! The ones the stars are suing for slander and you read the front page reads : alien baby devours six at bus stop!!!
I read some of them at a family gathering a few years ago and they are so stupid.
But entertaining!
and they sell alot of them so people must enjoy spending money on them to read them.
They talk of the stars and have photos of them brushing their hair or without underwear.
I know people buy them but I wonder who believes them, these crazy storys ?
i think grease spot is in that group honestly, a media but not without problems and certainly not at all accountable for what is within its pages.
WD bless his heart is on a campaign to make this place have some integrity, but it is another ship that has sailed I believe.
One of the reason is people are much more internet savy now, many people in cyberspace had to learn hard lesson on what this medium is or can be .
and we have more choices lots of web pages now from twi spin off people. more made every day.
and the years have gone by people have moved on. i think few waited 25 plus years to find out why so many left after vpw died or why or how lcm was sued in a civil court. they got the information by now and people involved today it is like a history and it is all different now so why bother?
I think if a person wants to know the history of the way this is one way to begin the reasearch, and it is a good thing, YET the topic is truth which implies some sort of accoutabily and integrity and public open forums do not really provide that .
What your saying is you believe in the posters here and they have integrity etc...
and i believe that is true many are on the web site because they like and believe in one another.
thats cool. carry on.
I am addressing the point of anyone coming to this site and getting any real help or answers from the threads.
the threads are messy often full of name calling gossip hear say and just plain confusion, without having been here for a long time or knowing the inside scoop of who is who (just like twi) your at risk of colliding with any number of rabid posters who are to say the least not nice and just plain paranoid of anyone outside the circle. So it appears not much more than a gossip magazine with funny storys.
and it is unrelenting in its attack of any one "new" or percieved as not fitting in, if they do not comply with the well ingrained pecking order.
Rascal comment about bumpy, Rascal has been on the radio she is famous! she knows people , she is a rabid poster, and her insult of how "new" (and of course less enlightened and less informed than the "regulars who have been here for years) he is (MONTHS! EVEN) goes to show just how unwelcoming and closed minded this place is . who in their right mind would risk that crap for their own self knowing that is the possible eventual outcome of posting here if compliance and allegence to certain players is not maintained?
that is what people read and that is why people do dismiss this place. Not to metion the fact if a decent conversation does start it quickly turns into he/she attacked the victim and she is mean am not, childish games that never end and become far to much bother to read.
The sad part is those who love this place the most are the very ones who make it impossible to be be a place that welcomes or wants any question of their idea of what it is.
I use this example of conversation between bumpy and Rascal because it is on this particular thread , but those type of intimidation tactics are all over this web site by more than a few key players that love this place till the end.
so i think most are just saying let them have it and ex is right it isnt safe.
your right Im not one of the chosen inner circle people.
yeah hooo for me really. I played that game once we all did and you know what Im glad I broke the chains it made in my life and I now welcome new thoughts and ideas from many different places people and things.
and that is exactly why this place is fading into the few sect mind sets that dismiss anyone But their own little group , it is a safe powerful place for them.
those "die hards" are the very ones killing any new life or hope for answers other than what they want them to be.
It is a learned behaviour from the cult and alive and well on grease spot cafe.
Im happy i no longer fall into its trap and allow certain people say so and power over all just because they have a position on the forum of authority because they ahve been here longer know certain people or can be the most mean of all.
What I read, learned and saw at WayDale and then at Greasespot Cafe are the sole reasons for my exit from TWI. My exit from TWI is the reason for my divorce.
After the first lawsuit was announced and the corresponding insistence that we stay away from the internet, I knew there had to be more to the story than we were hearing in TWI. I spent the first month reading every single word posted on WayDale. I hardly slept at all after discovering how putrid and purely evil the organization is.
I was also extremely fearful - afraid of being possessed, of being 'found out', of having to face the sorry realization of the situation I found myself in. If it were not for the people posting at WayDale and GSpot, I seriously doubt if I would have left TWI - I certainly would not have left as soon as I did. Even then it was months before I had the courage to post and years after that to actually leave. (I didn't actually leave, but that's another story....)
I credit the wonderful folks at WayDale and GSpot with my freedom from TWI. If it were not for them, I would not have heard about some of the books that helped me sort things out. I would not have sought out professional therapy. I would not have established the necessary connections, support and, most importantly, friendships needed to build my own self-esteem and ability to think for myself.
What may seem trivial or insignificant to one person is actually a life line for someone else.
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Bumpy
Cman, going to slightly de-rail this thread here for you, just because The Title seems to be such an interesting universal concept for potential abuse on a rainy Saturday, and no one has yet responded to it directly?? Anyway...
(Please don't yell at me if you can help it!)
Question: What do folks think "the truth" is regarding TWI listening to all the "Voices" here at GS? If the tree has fallen in the forest, is anyone really out there listening to all the voices of discontent being expressed here? Or are we just talking and arguing amongst ourselves??
I wonder what people at TWI & CES, etc., REALLY think about HOW viewpoints get expressed here? Do they think that what is spoken about on GS is really the "truth"? Or do they view people here as dysfunctional cult remnants ranting and repeating over and over the same old stories just to bring attention to themselves??
What is "the Truth", are those inside TWI really paying any interest to the GS trees in the forest?? :unsure:
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cman
GSC is here to help us and those who listen from twi or anywhere else imo.
I don't know what people think.....mostly.
The honest ones will be honest.
The only mind I can control is my own.
So I do what I can to have self control.
So that the spirit can be heard and seen.
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Bumpy
Cman, my point relates more directly to the "mission statement" of GS being a morning cup of Coffee for TWI (ces). Is there a message being sent here from GS which is going to wake ANYONE up in TWI to..."cult" reality??
Or is the internal attack warfare between people here, under the guise of "healing", making this site just a postmortem exercise of more cult waybrain anger & confusion?
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potato
yes there is. I was in twi and I was miserable with no way to break free. this site and the experiences of people who made it out helped me break free and start over.
in my corporate jobs, the postmortem exercise was an important wrap for any product release, to analyze what went right and what went wrong. anything big, like involvement in a cult for one year or twenty, can take a while to understand, come to grips with, recover from. typically the results of a post-mortem are recorded for all to see, so everyone can learn from it if they want to. you also have the choice to ignore what's here and go somewhere else, bumpy.
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Bumpy
But then I would miss all the nice happy post-mortem dialogue between people expressing such "Joyful Noise" of having escaped TWI bondage, potato!
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potato
twi's campaigns for their Truth and Love products should go through the postmortem process and customer testimonials and feedback will naturally be a part of the process.
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Bumpy
We know that, it goes without saying. But getting back to the subject... Does anyone at TWI or CES who might be listening to these "testimonials", feel that GS (as an "invisible" Internet vehicle), plays a real source of MOTIVATION for people to "see the light" for their Cult Exit Strategy?
For some, this is a better place. For others who leave, it may not be? For posters who NEVER leave GS, it may be the ONLY place they have to go?
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anotherDan
Pilate said, "What is truth?"
And we all ask the same question
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potato
I know first hand that twi felt threatened by this website. top leadership directed us innies to never visit lest we become possessed by the same spirits the GS'ers are possessed with... it actually started out around the time of the waydale site I believe... and they may not care so much anymore since they don't seem to need ABS anymore to maintain their lifestyle, but right before I left some hard-core long-time innies were bashing this site and everyone on it at a branch meeting.
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WhiteDove
And this is the reason exactly why we must refer to those things that are proven as such and those that are not as such. Regardless of what we may believe personally. When that does not happen it becomes very easy to point out that people are misrepresenting the facts, it makes their job easy to point out that there are nothing but liars here. On the other hand when things are factual and referred to as they should be in a public format then they have nothing to discredit. I'm sure some will point out that they will discredit things anyway so who cares, and that may be true but they will have less to work with when we are factual.
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socks
To get that answer you'd have to go to those who are in TWI. You already got one answer, from potato.
What do you think bumpy? Is the mission statement of GS being realized? Yes/No?
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socks
How something is expressed is important, no question about it.
Myself, I don't care if anyone in TWI reads, hears or listens to anything I write here. If they're out surfin' the web and looking at GS, they have their reasons for doing so. I don't know what those are and can't pretend to address anyone's specific interests or questions. If someone came hare and posted something, I could try to post a response to that.
I read some posts here and can't relate the experiences to anything I experienced in TWI. Other stuff is a lot like it, the same, maybe even better. I certainly wasn't perfect and can't claim doing more than my best, at best and sometimes less than that. What you saw is what you got.
GS as a website provides a certain amount of information from it's homepage. The Forum is a part of the site for discussion of all kinds for many different reasons.
I think it's unrealistic to expect or require that these exchanges focus entirely on relating to members of TWI in some form or fashion that is most likely to insure a receptive response. No one knows exactly what a specific person is looking for. It would be disingenuous to craft posts in such as way as to try and make them "Wayfer Friendly".
The board itself only asks for some basic things - be courteous and reasonably civil. Don't rant and rail on others, follow them around and always keep nagging on certain people with the same kinds of posts that are really thinly veiled restatements of the same thing made over and over and over so obviousy that a blind goldfish could tell what the intent is. Don't ask loaded questions and act surprised and insulted when they backfire. That kind of thing, nothing really difficult. Avoid picking at people and stuff over and over because at some point, someone's going to take that pick and put it where the sun don't shine. And then things get ugly, big surprise there. But it's obvious from time to time that's what some posters like to do - ruffle people's feathers and waste people's time.
People that are in the Way are probably in the Way because there's something there they like. If they found out other information that they didn't know, it could effect their decisions to continue being involved. Maybe maybe not. There's no accounting for what people will do, when you don't know who they are, what they want, what they need or what they're interested in.
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Bumpy
Difficult to come up with a simple yes/no answer. The Cult WayBrain is a complicated mindset. As you say, those that are innies, whether TWI or CES, are "members" for a reason. The need to belong to an avant gard Bible group, or the fear of leaving one might play a role?
Most here I believe joined in their youth wanting to "serve" God in a pre-Internet era which sounds innocent enough. Emotional bars of fear (El Diablo), rejection or peer/family pressures probably kept some in longer than they would have liked.
Whether GS plays any kind of motivational exit role today would be difficult to prove. I think for the most part this is just a chat room of invisible Avatar people trying to reconnect with lost friends, work out past issues, play TV games or mentally masturbate what "might have been"?
As a morning "cup of reality"...that might be stretching it a bit?
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anotherDan
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rascal
I guess your motivational exit role wasn`t enough potato. Trust me, you are not the only one that we have celebrated their successful exit from twi...Nottawayfer, Belle, Abby to name a few just off the top of my head :)
Bumpy, having just been here a few months is obviously an expert on how many people were able to leave twi once finding this spot and found the answers needed to break away.
I know that after way dale came out, and gs a year later....membership dropped from 25,000 to currently less than 5, 000.
Cman, it is an excellent observation, thanks for sharing it with us. I hope that it`s intent doesn`t get lost in the derail.
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cman
Trying to push buttons Bumpy?
I doubt if it will work.
No one has claimed that waydale and greasespot are the sole reason for anyone exiting twi.
I didn't find waydale till after I left twi.
And then Greasespot began.
It has helped me in many ways.
Ways that can not even be put in words.
Am I stuck here?
No. But by choice I visit and post.
Much different then the intentions and tactics of twi involvement.
There are no tactics here to keep people listening or posting.
Except whatever lives in your own thinking.
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bulwinkl
Even when you bite their heads off
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cman
And thanks rascal, I believe many got it in the first post, but i don't know how many.
Even if things get off topic, the first post still remains.
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pond
Have you ever read some of these head lines in the magazines considered "rags"! The ones the stars are suing for slander and you read the front page reads : alien baby devours six at bus stop!!!
I read some of them at a family gathering a few years ago and they are so stupid.
But entertaining!
and they sell alot of them so people must enjoy spending money on them to read them.
They talk of the stars and have photos of them brushing their hair or without underwear.
I know people buy them but I wonder who believes them, these crazy storys ?
i think grease spot is in that group honestly, a media but not without problems and certainly not at all accountable for what is within its pages.
WD bless his heart is on a campaign to make this place have some integrity, but it is another ship that has sailed I believe.
One of the reason is people are much more internet savy now, many people in cyberspace had to learn hard lesson on what this medium is or can be .
and we have more choices lots of web pages now from twi spin off people. more made every day.
and the years have gone by people have moved on. i think few waited 25 plus years to find out why so many left after vpw died or why or how lcm was sued in a civil court. they got the information by now and people involved today it is like a history and it is all different now so why bother?
I think if a person wants to know the history of the way this is one way to begin the reasearch, and it is a good thing, YET the topic is truth which implies some sort of accoutabily and integrity and public open forums do not really provide that .
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cman
The only integrity of anything lies within the people involved.
Their honesty and willingness to admit wrongs when needed or to get it out.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/%20integrity
The bland definition, but seen in practice it is quite the sight to behold.
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pond
What your saying is you believe in the posters here and they have integrity etc...
and i believe that is true many are on the web site because they like and believe in one another.
thats cool. carry on.
I am addressing the point of anyone coming to this site and getting any real help or answers from the threads.
the threads are messy often full of name calling gossip hear say and just plain confusion, without having been here for a long time or knowing the inside scoop of who is who (just like twi) your at risk of colliding with any number of rabid posters who are to say the least not nice and just plain paranoid of anyone outside the circle. So it appears not much more than a gossip magazine with funny storys.
and it is unrelenting in its attack of any one "new" or percieved as not fitting in, if they do not comply with the well ingrained pecking order.
Rascal comment about bumpy, Rascal has been on the radio she is famous! she knows people , she is a rabid poster, and her insult of how "new" (and of course less enlightened and less informed than the "regulars who have been here for years) he is (MONTHS! EVEN) goes to show just how unwelcoming and closed minded this place is . who in their right mind would risk that crap for their own self knowing that is the possible eventual outcome of posting here if compliance and allegence to certain players is not maintained?
that is what people read and that is why people do dismiss this place. Not to metion the fact if a decent conversation does start it quickly turns into he/she attacked the victim and she is mean am not, childish games that never end and become far to much bother to read.
The sad part is those who love this place the most are the very ones who make it impossible to be be a place that welcomes or wants any question of their idea of what it is.
I use this example of conversation between bumpy and Rascal because it is on this particular thread , but those type of intimidation tactics are all over this web site by more than a few key players that love this place till the end.
so i think most are just saying let them have it and ex is right it isnt safe.
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cman
You apparently do not know rascal, pond.
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pond
your right Im not one of the chosen inner circle people.
yeah hooo for me really. I played that game once we all did and you know what Im glad I broke the chains it made in my life and I now welcome new thoughts and ideas from many different places people and things.
and that is exactly why this place is fading into the few sect mind sets that dismiss anyone But their own little group , it is a safe powerful place for them.
those "die hards" are the very ones killing any new life or hope for answers other than what they want them to be.
It is a learned behaviour from the cult and alive and well on grease spot cafe.
Im happy i no longer fall into its trap and allow certain people say so and power over all just because they have a position on the forum of authority because they ahve been here longer know certain people or can be the most mean of all.
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Belle
What I read, learned and saw at WayDale and then at Greasespot Cafe are the sole reasons for my exit from TWI. My exit from TWI is the reason for my divorce.
After the first lawsuit was announced and the corresponding insistence that we stay away from the internet, I knew there had to be more to the story than we were hearing in TWI. I spent the first month reading every single word posted on WayDale. I hardly slept at all after discovering how putrid and purely evil the organization is.
I was also extremely fearful - afraid of being possessed, of being 'found out', of having to face the sorry realization of the situation I found myself in. If it were not for the people posting at WayDale and GSpot, I seriously doubt if I would have left TWI - I certainly would not have left as soon as I did. Even then it was months before I had the courage to post and years after that to actually leave. (I didn't actually leave, but that's another story....)
I credit the wonderful folks at WayDale and GSpot with my freedom from TWI. If it were not for them, I would not have heard about some of the books that helped me sort things out. I would not have sought out professional therapy. I would not have established the necessary connections, support and, most importantly, friendships needed to build my own self-esteem and ability to think for myself.
What may seem trivial or insignificant to one person is actually a life line for someone else.
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