I was wondering if any of you feel that your own personal backgrounds contributed to why you joined twi in the first place, or why you continued to stay even when things became increasingly bizarre.
For example, I grew up in a family where it was expected that I be the peace maker. I had family members that were acadamy award winning drama queens. Constantly exploding and exagerating stuff. There was unreasonable expectations, put downs and guilt trips. I was constantly running around trying to "fix" their problems and make them happy. Sometimes I could make things seem right, but it never lasted long and then the process would start all over again. It always seemed to be at my expense and they resented any attempts I made to enhance my own life.
So I think this may be why I was not alarmed like I should have been at some of the things that occured in the twi. Why I kept thinking things would get better. Why I was so loyal. Why I could endure all of that verbal abuse and face meltings and still come back for more. Why I did not ever make myself a priority and allowed leaders to convince me my needs did not matter.
(Well, having said all this I must say that I still loved my family and I know they loved me. There were many good times also and I am thankful for many things. Families can be complicated, but within the dysfunction there can still be closeness and love. I still try to see the good side to them even though their over whelming personalities sometimes made doing that difficult)
Anyone have any thoughts for this thread?
Thanks,
Happyheart
Funny how you just described my life (not including my parents). I always thought that it was strange that the youngest should be the peace maker. But there it is. And to your question; Yes my past played a big part in why I stayed and how I endured. But in like manner what I endured helped me get the job that I now have. All things work together for good for those that love God.
Funny how you just described my life (not including my parents). I always thought that it was strange that the youngest should be the peace maker. But there it is. And to your question; Yes my past played a big part in why I stayed and how I endured. But in like manner what I endured helped me get the job that I now have. All things work together for good for those that love God.
Welcome to the Spot!
Thanks Eyesopen. You just kind of described my life too. I am the youngest and what I endured also helped me get the job I have. Interesting. For as difficult as the past was, it led me to the life I have now and my own family which I wouldn't trade for anything.
My story is a lot milder than some. I got in because I wanted answers. I wanted to be right.
twi convinced me they were right, and had the answers.
When twi convinced me they weren't right, and didn't have the answers, I left.
Pretty fast.
It helped a LOT that this was in 1989, when 80% of the active members got up and
left. Locally, everybody I'd hung out with had left at the same time.
(I would have left without them, but this made it easier.)
I still thought what I'd learned was the best out there.
Of course, I was young and foolish.
And the internet has REALLY made learning otherwise a LOT easier.
I'm still a Christian, and I think Christians worldwide should consider the internet
to have IMMENSE benefits, both for communication, and information.
Of course, that's just my opinion-everyone else has theirs.
Thanks Wordwolf. It seems like you have probably always had a strong sense of self and been a clear thinker. I admire that. It was smart of you to leave when you saw it wasn't right. I'm intrigued with why a lot of us did not do the same. I remember being impressed with how right the twi seemed and thought I'd really found the place with the answers. I too am still a Christian. Over the last several years I have really enjoyed other Christians and have made some great friendships. It was very liberating to stop thinking they had nothing to offer just because they were not with twi. I've seen how stupid and limiting that mentality was. I agree with what you said about the internet. I think it also can help people from getting isolated. Thanks again.
Over the last several years I have really enjoyed other Christians and have made some great friendships. It was very liberating to stop thinking they had nothing to offer just because they were not with twi. I've seen how stupid and limiting that mentality was. I agree with what you said about the internet. I think it also can help people from getting isolated. Thanks again.
I'm still Christian as well, but I was before I went in, including the Speaking in Tongues gig. But I just can't bring myself to walk into another church except to admire the architecture. I did finally go into a church to actually look at what they had to offer but it was for my young one, not myself.
I never felt that other religions held no truth like twi taught. I have throughout the years learned a great deal about God and Jesus Christ from other religions besides those that claim Christianity. In fact I have found that some religions know a great deal more about God than most Christians (well those that I have had contact with physically or over the net).
Speaking of the net, I agree that it is a great tool. I was not around when Craig was claiming it was devilish. Actually I found GS on one of my first great adventures on my very own new PC way back in early 2002. And that was most certainly not a bad thing.
WayDale and Greasespot have been invaluable to me and, if it weren't for WayDale I might still be sitting in a fellowship somewhere grinding my molars down to stubs and wishing there was some way I could put my finger on all that was wrong with TWI.
HappyHeart, I think our personal background affects most all of our decisions in life and how we react/handle decisions.
Don Miguel Ruiz wrote a series of books on "The Four Agreements" and in those books he talks about how we believe what others tell us about ourselves, when really is is only their perception of those things. However, by believing that what others see in us is true, we behave in such a manner as to "fit" into their image of us.
For some of us, TWI found us when we were at our weakest, at a crossroads or just plain fed up with life. They swooped in and took advantage. Not all of us were taken advantage of this way, but some of us were.
Speaking of the net, I agree that it is a great tool. I was not around when Craig was claiming it was devilish.
Craig and many others had great reasons to fear the internet. It took away the control they wanted over everyone. It also made it possible for everyone to see some of the stupid or vicious letters they sent to people.
WayDale and Greasespot have been invaluable to me and, if it weren't for WayDale I might still be sitting in a fellowship somewhere grinding my molars down to stubs and wishing there was some way I could put my finger on all that was wrong with TWI.
HappyHeart, I think our personal background affects most all of our decisions in life and how we react/handle decisions.
Don Miguel Ruiz wrote a series of books on "The Four Agreements" and in those books he talks about how we believe what others tell us about ourselves, when really is is only their perception of those things. However, by believing that what others see in us is true, we behave in such a manner as to "fit" into their image of us.
For some of us, TWI found us when we were at our weakest, at a crossroads or just plain fed up with life. They swooped in and took advantage. Not all of us were taken advantage of this way, but some of us were.
Thanks for the info Belle, I'll look it up. The book sounds interesting too. I was confused about what to do with my life, not knowing where I fit in. They seemed so sure and I wanted that too. I wanted answers. But my background was why I kept putting up with all the insanity. I have this strong sense of loyalty and stay in relationships longer than I should sometimes.
But my background was why I kept putting up with all the insanity. I have this strong sense of loyalty and stay in relationships longer than I should sometimes.
Are you certain that we didn't grow up in the same family?
I was brought up Roman Catholic and involved in various activities (choir, "commentator," etc.) but hadn't really read teh Bible. A couple of Way believers witnessed to me at the "right" time; I thought it would be good to learn more about the Bible. The fundamentalist approach in PFAL struck me as being the only logical way to interpret the Bible. I still think the "keys" are correct, but there were several misapplications of them.
You would be astonished at how many people I knew (and have since met here) from twi that suffered some pretty horrendous traumas.
Many had been raped as young girls and teens. Most of my friends came from broken families.
Many of us in the 70s had to raise ourselves because our parents were doing their own thing.
It seems by in large, most of the folks I knew were like me, teenagers, starved for love, desperately seeking a meaningful direction in life.
TWI came along and said you aren`t a schmuck, you are God`s best, you can have power, you can participate in the epic battle of good verses evil. We LOVE you :(
It was an irrisistable lure to lonely kids whom had no one who cared enough to guide them.
I watch this show called *intervention*. Families plan an intervention with a loved one whom is addicted and failing.
The addicted person thinks that they are doing a documentary on addiction and cooperate. They go into their back grounds. Most of the time there are factors like family break up, losing a parent, some kind of trauma like rape.
These people turn to the drugs and alcohol and eating disorders to deal with these issues. No not all, but a significant number.
Their stories sound so much like the lives of myself and friends. I think that we turned to twi. It was our addiction of choice to deal with our pain. In twi we felt powerful, we felt loved, we felt like we were right and that we were on a glorious mission.
The same thing that the drugs do for these addicts. By the time we/they found out that our choices were dangerous and destructive...it was too late, we were hooked.
I watch this show called *intervention*. Families plan an intervention with a loved one whom is addicted and failing.
The addicted person thinks that they are doing a documentary on addiction and cooperate. They go into their back grounds. Most of the time there are factors like family break up, losing a parent, some kind of trauma like rape.
These people turn to the drugs and alcohol and eating disorders to deal with these issues. No not all, but a significant number.
Their stories sound so much like the lives of myself and friends. I think that we turned to twi. It was our addiction of choice to deal with our pain. In twi we felt powerful, we felt loved, we felt like we were right and that we were on a glorious mission.
The same thing that the drugs do for these addicts. By the time we/they found out that our choices were dangerous and destructive...it was too late, we were hooked.
I am thinking of the drug pushers.....Usually they woul start these kids out with freebies and stories of how much fun you could have when you were high. How it was so cool to be a part of this lawless crowd.
I hate to think of myself as exploitive as those pushers...but do you remember as wows how we were taught to find a weakness in a persons life and show how the word ...aka pfal could help fix it???
We were always on the prowl for new blood, fresh meat. Our spirituality was measured by how many people we brought into twi.
Were we really any better than the pusher who gave the drugs away to young people in the name of a good time....so that later they would have an income from the addict??
People turned to us because we told them that we had the answeres. Rather than helping, twi just exploited, manipulated for personal gain, and discarded us like so much trash when our usefullness was exhausted.
Were we really any better than the pusher who gave the drugs away to young people in the name of a good time....so that later they would have an income from the addict??
Yes, we were.
I can't speak for you, of course, but I got some deliverance from PFAL and I wanted to share that with others. The pusher knows he's dealing addiction and death.
I won`t say that our motives weren`t purer, our hearts not in the right place George.....
I believe that it was those very motives though, that are what the drug lords exploited in order to bring in income, power and prestige to themselves.
We were taught some scriptures that appeared to help for a time...but in reality, those scriptures ended up simply being the bait that covered the hook that ensnared us.
In the end, contact with twi, turned out to be much more destructive than if we had just been left alone.
I think that if these unscrupulous people not lured, decieved and exploited us, God would have found a way to reach us eventually anyway. He did the rest of my family members and friends who DIDN`T go the rout of twi.
Those scriptures didn't "appear to help for a time." They still help me, and I still use them to help others. It's regrettable taht the group we were with had a lot of evil in it, but we didn't do anything wrong. If you got sucked up into using scripture to subjugate people, then that's for you to work out. But portraying everyone who witnessed for God (under the auspices of TWI) as shills for a shyster is unfair.
Would God have led me the same truths outside TWI? Possibly, but we'll never have the experiment to find out. And I'm not going to refuse to help someone with what I know, just because I learned it in TWI.
I guess it is all in ones perspective George. If you learned some scripture but were later enslaved by that very scripture to the group that taught it...If you learned to revere that scripture and then it was used as a weapon to force you to do unconscionable things....is it really a good thing? If the man that taught you the scripture and won your trust as a minister for God then used those same scriptures to fascillitate seduction drugging and rape....would it still be something that God called you to? Would those scriptures still hold such value?
I`d like to think that God could do a whole lot better than that.
I think pfal was kind of like a *gateway* drug. It seemed rather innocuous and harmless at first....but in reqality, laid the foundation for entrapment .... those very scriptures that we thought were so cool were later used to harm.
Well, I was a bit older than many of y'all when I got involved. I was an only child of whom great things were expected, and I failed to live up to many of those expectations. My mother was very critical and let me know I had disappointed her. Add to this that I was a geeky, scrawny little kid, in the top 10% of my graduating class but without one date through my entire high school career, no boyfriend, and the butt of a lot of nasty jokes and comments. I had very few social skills other than being obnoxious and annoying, and smarter than 92% of the rest of them.
Then, I start meeting TWI people. It started when the 2nd WC started coming over to study healing with the physician I worked for. The first guy over there kept bugging me, even invited me to the Rock of Ages. I was desperately seeking something to give my life meaning to God, myself and just a few other people. So after meeting most of the second WC, I took PFAL. I went to the Rock. I continued to take classes, went out WOW, went in Ohio Fellow Laborers, got married, and was involved for 23 years.
I do think the above sounds lke a classic set up to be a cult victim. But I will say this: I don't regret it. I did learn some Bible, met a wonderful man who is a fantastic husband. There were some bad times and some awful times, and while some of what I was taught was BS, some of it was truth. When it got bad, we got out. I was really bitter and hurt and frightened for a while. I try not to be any more. I think TWI is a cult and is wrong and it is sad when they do to people.
I would say that God used TWI to prepare me for greater things.
I realize that this sounds kind of soft, and may well offend those who want to read nothing but bitter castigation. A lot of times I'm afraid to post like this. I don't want anyone to think I am condoning the evil that TWI has produced and continues to produce, or saying if you got hurt you are responsible. I don't believe that at all. It is reprehensible what happened to a lot people. This is just my own personal viewpoint. I survived and flourished by the grace of God, not by the grace of TWI or my own wits and will.
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Eyesopen
Funny how you just described my life (not including my parents). I always thought that it was strange that the youngest should be the peace maker. But there it is. And to your question; Yes my past played a big part in why I stayed and how I endured. But in like manner what I endured helped me get the job that I now have. All things work together for good for those that love God.
Welcome to the Spot!
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happyheart
Thanks Eyesopen. You just kind of described my life too. I am the youngest and what I endured also helped me get the job I have. Interesting. For as difficult as the past was, it led me to the life I have now and my own family which I wouldn't trade for anything.
Thanks for sharing.
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WordWolf
My story is a lot milder than some. I got in because I wanted answers. I wanted to be right.
twi convinced me they were right, and had the answers.
When twi convinced me they weren't right, and didn't have the answers, I left.
Pretty fast.
It helped a LOT that this was in 1989, when 80% of the active members got up and
left. Locally, everybody I'd hung out with had left at the same time.
(I would have left without them, but this made it easier.)
I still thought what I'd learned was the best out there.
Of course, I was young and foolish.
And the internet has REALLY made learning otherwise a LOT easier.
I'm still a Christian, and I think Christians worldwide should consider the internet
to have IMMENSE benefits, both for communication, and information.
Of course, that's just my opinion-everyone else has theirs.
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happyheart
Thanks Wordwolf. It seems like you have probably always had a strong sense of self and been a clear thinker. I admire that. It was smart of you to leave when you saw it wasn't right. I'm intrigued with why a lot of us did not do the same. I remember being impressed with how right the twi seemed and thought I'd really found the place with the answers. I too am still a Christian. Over the last several years I have really enjoyed other Christians and have made some great friendships. It was very liberating to stop thinking they had nothing to offer just because they were not with twi. I've seen how stupid and limiting that mentality was. I agree with what you said about the internet. I think it also can help people from getting isolated. Thanks again.
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Eyesopen
I'm still Christian as well, but I was before I went in, including the Speaking in Tongues gig. But I just can't bring myself to walk into another church except to admire the architecture. I did finally go into a church to actually look at what they had to offer but it was for my young one, not myself.
I never felt that other religions held no truth like twi taught. I have throughout the years learned a great deal about God and Jesus Christ from other religions besides those that claim Christianity. In fact I have found that some religions know a great deal more about God than most Christians (well those that I have had contact with physically or over the net).
Speaking of the net, I agree that it is a great tool. I was not around when Craig was claiming it was devilish. Actually I found GS on one of my first great adventures on my very own new PC way back in early 2002. And that was most certainly not a bad thing.
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Belle
Ahhhh, yes, the internet can be a valuable thing!
Here's a link to study materials some of our Greasespotters use.
Here's a great review of the PFAL class.... an excellent place for baby / bathwater questions.
WayDale and Greasespot have been invaluable to me and, if it weren't for WayDale I might still be sitting in a fellowship somewhere grinding my molars down to stubs and wishing there was some way I could put my finger on all that was wrong with TWI.
HappyHeart, I think our personal background affects most all of our decisions in life and how we react/handle decisions.
Don Miguel Ruiz wrote a series of books on "The Four Agreements" and in those books he talks about how we believe what others tell us about ourselves, when really is is only their perception of those things. However, by believing that what others see in us is true, we behave in such a manner as to "fit" into their image of us.
For some of us, TWI found us when we were at our weakest, at a crossroads or just plain fed up with life. They swooped in and took advantage. Not all of us were taken advantage of this way, but some of us were.
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happyheart
Craig and many others had great reasons to fear the internet. It took away the control they wanted over everyone. It also made it possible for everyone to see some of the stupid or vicious letters they sent to people.
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happyheart
Thanks for the info Belle, I'll look it up. The book sounds interesting too. I was confused about what to do with my life, not knowing where I fit in. They seemed so sure and I wanted that too. I wanted answers. But my background was why I kept putting up with all the insanity. I have this strong sense of loyalty and stay in relationships longer than I should sometimes.
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Eyesopen
Are you certain that we didn't grow up in the same family?
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happyheart
Well, it is funny. Your earlier post where you said you were a Christain before and even had the speaking in tongues thing? Me too.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I was brought up Roman Catholic and involved in various activities (choir, "commentator," etc.) but hadn't really read teh Bible. A couple of Way believers witnessed to me at the "right" time; I thought it would be good to learn more about the Bible. The fundamentalist approach in PFAL struck me as being the only logical way to interpret the Bible. I still think the "keys" are correct, but there were several misapplications of them.
Like WW, I wanted to be "right."
George
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cheranne
I think so....who joins a cult (or what twi said it was) and drop everything else to serve god?
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rascal
I believe so OCW.
You would be astonished at how many people I knew (and have since met here) from twi that suffered some pretty horrendous traumas.
Many had been raped as young girls and teens. Most of my friends came from broken families.
Many of us in the 70s had to raise ourselves because our parents were doing their own thing.
It seems by in large, most of the folks I knew were like me, teenagers, starved for love, desperately seeking a meaningful direction in life.
TWI came along and said you aren`t a schmuck, you are God`s best, you can have power, you can participate in the epic battle of good verses evil. We LOVE you :(
It was an irrisistable lure to lonely kids whom had no one who cared enough to guide them.
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rascal
I watch this show called *intervention*. Families plan an intervention with a loved one whom is addicted and failing.
The addicted person thinks that they are doing a documentary on addiction and cooperate. They go into their back grounds. Most of the time there are factors like family break up, losing a parent, some kind of trauma like rape.
These people turn to the drugs and alcohol and eating disorders to deal with these issues. No not all, but a significant number.
Their stories sound so much like the lives of myself and friends. I think that we turned to twi. It was our addiction of choice to deal with our pain. In twi we felt powerful, we felt loved, we felt like we were right and that we were on a glorious mission.
The same thing that the drugs do for these addicts. By the time we/they found out that our choices were dangerous and destructive...it was too late, we were hooked.
The similarities are amazing.
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cheranne
sad to say,but very very true!
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rascal
I am thinking of the drug pushers.....Usually they woul start these kids out with freebies and stories of how much fun you could have when you were high. How it was so cool to be a part of this lawless crowd.
I hate to think of myself as exploitive as those pushers...but do you remember as wows how we were taught to find a weakness in a persons life and show how the word ...aka pfal could help fix it???
We were always on the prowl for new blood, fresh meat. Our spirituality was measured by how many people we brought into twi.
Were we really any better than the pusher who gave the drugs away to young people in the name of a good time....so that later they would have an income from the addict??
People turned to us because we told them that we had the answeres. Rather than helping, twi just exploited, manipulated for personal gain, and discarded us like so much trash when our usefullness was exhausted.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Yes, we were.
I can't speak for you, of course, but I got some deliverance from PFAL and I wanted to share that with others. The pusher knows he's dealing addiction and death.
George
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rascal
I won`t say that our motives weren`t purer, our hearts not in the right place George.....
I believe that it was those very motives though, that are what the drug lords exploited in order to bring in income, power and prestige to themselves.
We were taught some scriptures that appeared to help for a time...but in reality, those scriptures ended up simply being the bait that covered the hook that ensnared us.
In the end, contact with twi, turned out to be much more destructive than if we had just been left alone.
I think that if these unscrupulous people not lured, decieved and exploited us, God would have found a way to reach us eventually anyway. He did the rest of my family members and friends who DIDN`T go the rout of twi.
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excathedra
absolutely no doubt my personal background was a contributing factor
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GeorgeStGeorge
Rascal,
Those scriptures didn't "appear to help for a time." They still help me, and I still use them to help others. It's regrettable taht the group we were with had a lot of evil in it, but we didn't do anything wrong. If you got sucked up into using scripture to subjugate people, then that's for you to work out. But portraying everyone who witnessed for God (under the auspices of TWI) as shills for a shyster is unfair.
Would God have led me the same truths outside TWI? Possibly, but we'll never have the experiment to find out. And I'm not going to refuse to help someone with what I know, just because I learned it in TWI.
George
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excathedra
i really can't remember what scriptures i "used" to help or hinder
my life is simple today
i mostly just care about people i talk to
sometimes a scripture pops into my mind but i can't remember which ones now
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rascal
I guess it is all in ones perspective George. If you learned some scripture but were later enslaved by that very scripture to the group that taught it...If you learned to revere that scripture and then it was used as a weapon to force you to do unconscionable things....is it really a good thing? If the man that taught you the scripture and won your trust as a minister for God then used those same scriptures to fascillitate seduction drugging and rape....would it still be something that God called you to? Would those scriptures still hold such value?
I`d like to think that God could do a whole lot better than that.
I think pfal was kind of like a *gateway* drug. It seemed rather innocuous and harmless at first....but in reqality, laid the foundation for entrapment .... those very scriptures that we thought were so cool were later used to harm.
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Watered Garden
Well, I was a bit older than many of y'all when I got involved. I was an only child of whom great things were expected, and I failed to live up to many of those expectations. My mother was very critical and let me know I had disappointed her. Add to this that I was a geeky, scrawny little kid, in the top 10% of my graduating class but without one date through my entire high school career, no boyfriend, and the butt of a lot of nasty jokes and comments. I had very few social skills other than being obnoxious and annoying, and smarter than 92% of the rest of them.
Then, I start meeting TWI people. It started when the 2nd WC started coming over to study healing with the physician I worked for. The first guy over there kept bugging me, even invited me to the Rock of Ages. I was desperately seeking something to give my life meaning to God, myself and just a few other people. So after meeting most of the second WC, I took PFAL. I went to the Rock. I continued to take classes, went out WOW, went in Ohio Fellow Laborers, got married, and was involved for 23 years.
I do think the above sounds lke a classic set up to be a cult victim. But I will say this: I don't regret it. I did learn some Bible, met a wonderful man who is a fantastic husband. There were some bad times and some awful times, and while some of what I was taught was BS, some of it was truth. When it got bad, we got out. I was really bitter and hurt and frightened for a while. I try not to be any more. I think TWI is a cult and is wrong and it is sad when they do to people.
I would say that God used TWI to prepare me for greater things.
I realize that this sounds kind of soft, and may well offend those who want to read nothing but bitter castigation. A lot of times I'm afraid to post like this. I don't want anyone to think I am condoning the evil that TWI has produced and continues to produce, or saying if you got hurt you are responsible. I don't believe that at all. It is reprehensible what happened to a lot people. This is just my own personal viewpoint. I survived and flourished by the grace of God, not by the grace of TWI or my own wits and will.
WG
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rascal
Watered garden, I hope that you are never afraid to post what you really think. Your thoughts are as important and valid as anyone elses here. :)
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