I left quietly, no ado, after the Rock of Ages 1976. Took my new W.O.W. pin and booked. Never heard from anyone about my being absent.
All this 'mark and avoid' stuff from the 1980s is so frightening to me. Talk about corrupted power. The wheels came off TWI after I left. I blame Disco Craig -- what the .... was he thinking???
He was taught-by vpw- that whatever the person in charge of twi decided,
that was "of God" and to declare it, and people had to conform.
He was also taught that looking back and trying to improve things after something
didn't work was "wrong"- he was supposed to "keep moving forward"
WE.. Hubby and I left quietly in the night and it was early on some time around the end of 82... WE were in one of those states in the middle of the country that were basically devistaded by the recession of the late 70's and early 80's... hubby could not get work and was slowly but surely falling into a deep pit of depression. NOt to mention getting the pressure to get it together by the LC.. which I think just made it worse.
We had seen a couple of things that I think really scared him.. Me not so much because I was a newbie really and was not paying that close of attention. he was way Corps (9) and had seen more.. anyway one of the things we saw was at the rock of ages the summer before we left. One corp guy was supposedly thrown out for being an alcoholic(at rock of ages) and his wife left with him. The corps was told to not talk to him or her ever again.. I think she was corps too. any way My Hubby knew the guy and his wife and he kept saying I can't believe he was drinking .. It just doesn't make sense.. (now i wonder if they just left and these lies were told to cover it up) Prior to that we had also seen a twig believer get a verbal working over it was not pleasant. I assume he had seen much more than those two things.
any way to make a long story short one night he asked me did I mind if we left and I looked at my dear man who would never hurt a flea and saw only the deepest kind of hurt and pain and I said I will follow you where ever you go.. so we left that night after every one went to sleep. He was a twig leader.. and we were living in a way home with several other believers.
We left almost all our stuff behind.. We went to a non WAY friend of my husbands and stayed with them for two days and then hitchhiked out of town and headed to his parents house. When we were almost home Hubby said he kept waiting for God to strike us dead and it didn't happen. I felt much teh same. IT was like we betrayed God when really we had done no such thing at all we had just left for self preservation.
I assume we were mark and avoid after we left but they had no way to really find us. Which was good.
I didn't run into any way people until I had my two kids .. IT was right before the LCM debacle, I met a woman at the grocery store quit by accident.. She had a Way sticker on her car, and I almost went back but I could not shake that feeling of fear I had caught from my husband as we left .. SO I didn't go back.. Now after coming here and reading so much of the information here I can't help but feel glad I didn't get involved again.
I read some of this stuff, and I think back to a time on my WOW year in 1984-85 in Midland, Texas. I was in the Burger King drive-thru, and this lady in the car behind me comes up to me because I way a Way sticker on my bumper. I rolled down the window, and she was soooo excited to see me!! She kept saying "That's my ministry, but my husband won't let me go!!" I thought she was crazy, but I still invited her to twig. She said she couldn't, but wanted me to know that was her ministry.
It amazes me the mojo hold the ministry and all the crap we were taught had a hold on so many for so long. We were so indoctrinated. At my first twig, the TC's wife used to talk about how much she loved the Word. I was new, and I thought she was nuts. I thought "Who LOVES the Bible?? It's boring!!" Later on in my WOW year, my opinion changed because of the amount of classes I sat in. Class after class after class is a great way to indoctrinate people. For me, I guess it was because it might have been the first time the Bible made sense to me. Different people were convinced by different reasons. I just remember liking how Biblical smart I felt. It was stupid arrogance.
I read some of this stuff, and I think back to a time on my WOW year in 1984-85 in Midland, Texas. I was in the Burger King drive-thru, and this lady in the car behind me comes up to me because I way a Way sticker on my bumper. I rolled down the window, and she was soooo excited to see me!! She kept saying "That's my ministry, but my husband won't let me go!!" I thought she was crazy, but I still invited her to twig. She said she couldn't, but wanted me to know that was her ministry.
It amazes me the mojo hold the ministry and all the crap we were taught had a hold on so many for so long. We were so indoctrinated. At my first twig, the TC's wife used to talk about how much she loved the Word. I was new, and I thought she was nuts. I thought "Who LOVES the Bible?? It's boring!!" Later on in my WOW year, my opinion changed because of the amount of classes I sat in. Class after class after class is a great way to indoctrinate people. For me, I guess it was because it might have been the first time the Bible made sense to me. Different people were convinced by different reasons. I just remember liking how Biblical smart I felt. It was stupid arrogance.
Oh I don't think that was arrogance on your part... Even if some or lots of what vpw taught was not accurate or plagerized... it was one of the few bible classes that actually taught lots of the bible at that time(70's + 80's) and VPW in the PFAL class really did do a good job of explaining it so that you could read it and understand a lot of what the bible was saying. Unfortunately he was so caught up and puffed up in all his magnificense(in his own Mind) Some people here think he was always corrupt and maybe he was... I personally think that he got a lot of people calling him wonderful and believing his every word and he started believing it himself.
THat is not to say that he wasn't a cadgey guy and wanting to get lots of money..
... it was one of the few bible classes that actually taught lots of the bible at that time(70's + 80's)
I submit that this was an illusion. Many of us wayfers came from the mainline denominations, which didn't teach much bible. Plenty of the more evangelical and fundamentalist churches did teach the bible. Just because we didn't run across them, doesn't mean that they didn't exist. Another thing to consider is that once most of us got hooked on PFAL we stopped considering anything else as worthy of our attention.
Oh I don't think that was arrogance on your part... Even if some or lots of what vpw taught was not accurate or plagerized... it was one of the few bible classes that actually taught lots of the bible at that time(70's + 80's) and VPW in the PFAL class really did do a good job of explaining it so that you could read it and understand a lot of what the bible was saying. Unfortunately he was so caught up and puffed up in all his magnificense(in his own Mind) Some people here think he was always corrupt and maybe he was... I personally think that he got a lot of people calling him wonderful and believing his every word and he started believing it himself.
THat is not to say that he wasn't a cadgey guy and wanting to get lots of money..
What Oakspear said . . . . and he was probably corrupt when he got booted from his denomination. The thing about PFAL explaining the bible so you could understand it was---it was with VP's warped understanding! I think a better term is indoctrination.
Its interesting to hear the different ways of leaving. I left a week after the ROA in 1981--I had just finished WOW and was on my way to Way Corps--My family hired a deprogrammer (an ex-member of TWI who claimed to be a minister) along with a recently deprogrammed twi ex-member)
It was all very emotional, but I was not kidnapped--I was free to leave at any time, and at one point almost did. I actually left the house for a walk, and something inside me kept me from making a phone call to my "innie" friends at the time. I picked up the reciever on a pay phone, then just hung it up and walked back to my family's home. I am sure they were very nervous.
The minister kept discussing the biblical inconsistencies, the ex-member just tried to be supportive, but what really got me out was during a break, I was thumbing through the Lifton chapter that listed the 8 characteristics of a cult. When I read the one about Loaded Language, I had an "aha" moment of realization, and that was about it. We continued to talk, but I was much more agreeable and cooperative.
I went to a halfway house geared just for people like me who had gone thru deprogramming. There were people from different groups who worked there or who were clients like me--moonies, krishna and twi mostly. I spent about a month there--basically it was a place to hang out and talk.
For awhile, I accompanied deprogrammers as the "ex-member" peer person. That was interesting, and risky, as I find out later. I also did some presentations in the community to people with family members in a group. That was VERY EXHAUSTING, as these worried people were very demanding.
I remember on one deprogramming experience, one of the deprogrammer's sidekicks exposed himself to me. NICE........I also remember freaking out when I went back to my WOW location to tell my friends there (non members) that I was out of the group, and I was approached by a MOONIE in my old WOW town. THAT got me wondering if the devil was after me, let me tell you.
It was a wild time---not easy--I don't know if I would have walked out on my own or not--when I left, Wierwille was still fully in charge and Martindale was considered very entertaining--it was before the whole break up started happening.
I am glad this site is here. With the 30 year anniversary of Jonestown this last Nov, I have been putting a lot of thought into my past lately.
Okay I just came back and decided I better add some to my last post.
I have had more time to go through some of the old posts and to listen to some of the grease spot radio posts. and I have officially revised my opinion.. VPW was corrupt from way back.. maybe even the beginning.
IT is something I am still working my way through...
We left (Hubby and I) early in 83...we left quietly because he was struggling to find work and felt he was failing as a Corps grad. we left because we thought we were out of fellowship.
We thought we would be grease spots by midnight... but what happened was we made a new life.
Thanks Oakspear and Geisha for all your information all over Grease spot. You inspired me to go give it a closer look.
Its interesting to hear the different ways of leaving. I left a week after the ROA in 1981--I had just finished WOW and was on my way to Way Corps--My family hired a deprogrammer (an ex-member of TWI who claimed to be a minister) along with a recently deprogrammed twi ex-member)
It was all very emotional, but I was not kidnapped--I was free to leave at any time, and at one point almost did. I actually left the house for a walk, and something inside me kept me from making a phone call to my "innie" friends at the time. I picked up the reciever on a pay phone, then just hung it up and walked back to my family's home. I am sure they were very nervous.
The minister kept discussing the biblical inconsistencies, the ex-member just tried to be supportive, but what really got me out was during a break, I was thumbing through the Lifton chapter that listed the 8 characteristics of a cult. When I read the one about Loaded Language, I had an "aha" moment of realization, and that was about it. We continued to talk, but I was much more agreeable and cooperative.
I went to a halfway house geared just for people like me who had gone thru deprogramming. There were people from different groups who worked there or who were clients like me--moonies, krishna and twi mostly. I spent about a month there--basically it was a place to hang out and talk.
For awhile, I accompanied deprogrammers as the "ex-member" peer person. That was interesting, and risky, as I find out later. I also did some presentations in the community to people with family members in a group. That was VERY EXHAUSTING, as these worried people were very demanding.
I remember on one deprogramming experience, one of the deprogrammer's sidekicks exposed himself to me. NICE........I also remember freaking out when I went back to my WOW location to tell my friends there (non members) that I was out of the group, and I was approached by a MOONIE in my old WOW town. THAT got me wondering if the devil was after me, let me tell you.
It was a wild time---not easy--I don't know if I would have walked out on my own or not--when I left, Wierwille was still fully in charge and Martindale was considered very entertaining--it was before the whole break up started happening.
I am glad this site is here. With the 30 year anniversary of Jonestown this last Nov, I have been putting a lot of thought into my past lately.
Wow...that's quite a story...glad you decided to post it here. Thank you and welcome to the GreaseSpot...
Actually, I see that you joined over 2 years ago but you don't post that much....maybe you should post more?...just a thought.
Okay I just came back and decided I better add some to my last post.
I have had more time to go through some of the old posts and to listen to some of the grease spot radio posts. and I have officially revised my opinion.. VPW was corrupt from way back.. maybe even the beginning.
IT is something I am still working my way through...
We left (Hubby and I) early in 83...we left quietly because he was struggling to find work and felt he was failing as a Corps grad. we left because we thought we were out of fellowship.
We thought we would be grease spots by midnight... but what happened was we made a new life.
Thanks Oakspear and Geisha for all your information all over Grease spot. You inspired me to go give it a closer look.
Leafy... just keep peeling back those layers... exposing the ugly truth can really hurt but it is so empowering!!
They had a "confront" meeting because I was concerned about B** and Julia** Mo*k and their baby and happened to see them crying after a meeting with To# Horrock#. (their baby needed medical help and they had been on staff or something but were now no longer paid the pittance by the TWi) So we were also helping to write resumes for the ex-full time corps grads who needed to now find jobs -- plunge in money around 1999...around the same time was the whole lawsuit Waydale thing.
We quickly learned about the lawsuits info on Waydale---(after being told to not go on the evil internet) We learned about forced abortions from Craig's escapades and lot of other very sad things) But to*myboy decided to have a meeting with us...well the same night another Way follower had been attacked by her husband (ex-welter weight kickboxing champion) and I needed to get her over to our house along with our kids and and her house-guest. SOOOO ...when he came to "talk to us" we mt in the garage in lawn chairs 'cuz I had a house full of people--(we also had a single 20 year old living with us--and her boyfriend was their that night too)
Anyhow--He shows up with E))en War@ -- his current suck up at the time...and We have to tell him we can talk in the garage. (it as carpeted--nice May evening--the door was open and its not a bad ugly place to be) be tht as it may - he was insulted.
He kept telling us we have to trust the Trustees (Rosie and Don and whoever else was it in 1999) Eventually ^om only wants to talk to my husband and they go for a drive (rather crazy at the house that night)
My husband told him during their little drive we are not going to follow the trustees blindly...and that would be that. We never told him everything we knew--he wouldnt hear it anyhow. They blackmailed the 20 year old to move out of our house the same night.
2 Days later the "branch" was going to have an "ice cream social" which turned into the Mark and avoid LArry and Lianne meeting. We really didn't care. That same day earlier...my friend who had been beaten up by her husband and had already filed for divorce was told that she had better not get a loan for a car, becasue she would not be doing the will of God...The really sad thing is...both the BC and his wife knew what happend and why this woman, her children and her house guest were staying at our house, but never spent 2 minutes with her...just wanted to read us the riot act...talk about an idiot.
Later that year when The lawsuit papers that were filed were available publicly, we got copies and mailed them all 48 families in the ministry at the time in New Mexico. And a few others by request of other people who had left.
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WordWolf
He was taught-by vpw- that whatever the person in charge of twi decided,
that was "of God" and to declare it, and people had to conform.
He was also taught that looking back and trying to improve things after something
didn't work was "wrong"- he was supposed to "keep moving forward"
with "no regrets".
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rascal
Agreed, VPW was requiring sexual servitude from our young sisters long before LCM had a chance to destroy twi.
There were never any wheels ON twi imo.
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leafytwiglet
WE.. Hubby and I left quietly in the night and it was early on some time around the end of 82... WE were in one of those states in the middle of the country that were basically devistaded by the recession of the late 70's and early 80's... hubby could not get work and was slowly but surely falling into a deep pit of depression. NOt to mention getting the pressure to get it together by the LC.. which I think just made it worse.
We had seen a couple of things that I think really scared him.. Me not so much because I was a newbie really and was not paying that close of attention. he was way Corps (9) and had seen more.. anyway one of the things we saw was at the rock of ages the summer before we left. One corp guy was supposedly thrown out for being an alcoholic(at rock of ages) and his wife left with him. The corps was told to not talk to him or her ever again.. I think she was corps too. any way My Hubby knew the guy and his wife and he kept saying I can't believe he was drinking .. It just doesn't make sense.. (now i wonder if they just left and these lies were told to cover it up) Prior to that we had also seen a twig believer get a verbal working over it was not pleasant. I assume he had seen much more than those two things.
any way to make a long story short one night he asked me did I mind if we left and I looked at my dear man who would never hurt a flea and saw only the deepest kind of hurt and pain and I said I will follow you where ever you go.. so we left that night after every one went to sleep. He was a twig leader.. and we were living in a way home with several other believers.
We left almost all our stuff behind.. We went to a non WAY friend of my husbands and stayed with them for two days and then hitchhiked out of town and headed to his parents house. When we were almost home Hubby said he kept waiting for God to strike us dead and it didn't happen. I felt much teh same. IT was like we betrayed God when really we had done no such thing at all we had just left for self preservation.
I assume we were mark and avoid after we left but they had no way to really find us. Which was good.
I didn't run into any way people until I had my two kids .. IT was right before the LCM debacle, I met a woman at the grocery store quit by accident.. She had a Way sticker on her car, and I almost went back but I could not shake that feeling of fear I had caught from my husband as we left .. SO I didn't go back.. Now after coming here and reading so much of the information here I can't help but feel glad I didn't get involved again.
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Nottawayfer
I read some of this stuff, and I think back to a time on my WOW year in 1984-85 in Midland, Texas. I was in the Burger King drive-thru, and this lady in the car behind me comes up to me because I way a Way sticker on my bumper. I rolled down the window, and she was soooo excited to see me!! She kept saying "That's my ministry, but my husband won't let me go!!" I thought she was crazy, but I still invited her to twig. She said she couldn't, but wanted me to know that was her ministry.
It amazes me the mojo hold the ministry and all the crap we were taught had a hold on so many for so long. We were so indoctrinated. At my first twig, the TC's wife used to talk about how much she loved the Word. I was new, and I thought she was nuts. I thought "Who LOVES the Bible?? It's boring!!" Later on in my WOW year, my opinion changed because of the amount of classes I sat in. Class after class after class is a great way to indoctrinate people. For me, I guess it was because it might have been the first time the Bible made sense to me. Different people were convinced by different reasons. I just remember liking how Biblical smart I felt. It was stupid arrogance.
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leafytwiglet
Oh I don't think that was arrogance on your part... Even if some or lots of what vpw taught was not accurate or plagerized... it was one of the few bible classes that actually taught lots of the bible at that time(70's + 80's) and VPW in the PFAL class really did do a good job of explaining it so that you could read it and understand a lot of what the bible was saying. Unfortunately he was so caught up and puffed up in all his magnificense(in his own Mind) Some people here think he was always corrupt and maybe he was... I personally think that he got a lot of people calling him wonderful and believing his every word and he started believing it himself.
THat is not to say that he wasn't a cadgey guy and wanting to get lots of money..
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Oakspear
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geisha779
What Oakspear said . . . . and he was probably corrupt when he got booted from his denomination. The thing about PFAL explaining the bible so you could understand it was---it was with VP's warped understanding! I think a better term is indoctrination.
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jrglade
Its interesting to hear the different ways of leaving. I left a week after the ROA in 1981--I had just finished WOW and was on my way to Way Corps--My family hired a deprogrammer (an ex-member of TWI who claimed to be a minister) along with a recently deprogrammed twi ex-member)
It was all very emotional, but I was not kidnapped--I was free to leave at any time, and at one point almost did. I actually left the house for a walk, and something inside me kept me from making a phone call to my "innie" friends at the time. I picked up the reciever on a pay phone, then just hung it up and walked back to my family's home. I am sure they were very nervous.
The minister kept discussing the biblical inconsistencies, the ex-member just tried to be supportive, but what really got me out was during a break, I was thumbing through the Lifton chapter that listed the 8 characteristics of a cult. When I read the one about Loaded Language, I had an "aha" moment of realization, and that was about it. We continued to talk, but I was much more agreeable and cooperative.
I went to a halfway house geared just for people like me who had gone thru deprogramming. There were people from different groups who worked there or who were clients like me--moonies, krishna and twi mostly. I spent about a month there--basically it was a place to hang out and talk.
For awhile, I accompanied deprogrammers as the "ex-member" peer person. That was interesting, and risky, as I find out later. I also did some presentations in the community to people with family members in a group. That was VERY EXHAUSTING, as these worried people were very demanding.
I remember on one deprogramming experience, one of the deprogrammer's sidekicks exposed himself to me. NICE........I also remember freaking out when I went back to my WOW location to tell my friends there (non members) that I was out of the group, and I was approached by a MOONIE in my old WOW town. THAT got me wondering if the devil was after me, let me tell you.
It was a wild time---not easy--I don't know if I would have walked out on my own or not--when I left, Wierwille was still fully in charge and Martindale was considered very entertaining--it was before the whole break up started happening.
I am glad this site is here. With the 30 year anniversary of Jonestown this last Nov, I have been putting a lot of thought into my past lately.
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leafytwiglet
Okay I just came back and decided I better add some to my last post.
I have had more time to go through some of the old posts and to listen to some of the grease spot radio posts. and I have officially revised my opinion.. VPW was corrupt from way back.. maybe even the beginning.
IT is something I am still working my way through...
We left (Hubby and I) early in 83...we left quietly because he was struggling to find work and felt he was failing as a Corps grad. we left because we thought we were out of fellowship.
We thought we would be grease spots by midnight... but what happened was we made a new life.
Thanks Oakspear and Geisha for all your information all over Grease spot. You inspired me to go give it a closer look.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Wow...that's quite a story...glad you decided to post it here. Thank you and welcome to the GreaseSpot...
Actually, I see that you joined over 2 years ago but you don't post that much....maybe you should post more?...just a thought.
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TheHighWay
Leafy... just keep peeling back those layers... exposing the ugly truth can really hurt but it is so empowering!!
THW
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jrglade
Thanks Groucho. I joined awhile ago, forgot about it. Then like I said, the Jonestown thing got me thinking, so now I am back.
Its hard. I thought it was all behind me long ago, but still, I am working through trying to figure it all out, I guess.
It helps to post, no doubt
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washn'wear
We left with fireworks.
They had a "confront" meeting because I was concerned about B** and Julia** Mo*k and their baby and happened to see them crying after a meeting with To# Horrock#. (their baby needed medical help and they had been on staff or something but were now no longer paid the pittance by the TWi) So we were also helping to write resumes for the ex-full time corps grads who needed to now find jobs -- plunge in money around 1999...around the same time was the whole lawsuit Waydale thing.
We quickly learned about the lawsuits info on Waydale---(after being told to not go on the evil internet) We learned about forced abortions from Craig's escapades and lot of other very sad things) But to*myboy decided to have a meeting with us...well the same night another Way follower had been attacked by her husband (ex-welter weight kickboxing champion) and I needed to get her over to our house along with our kids and and her house-guest. SOOOO ...when he came to "talk to us" we mt in the garage in lawn chairs 'cuz I had a house full of people--(we also had a single 20 year old living with us--and her boyfriend was their that night too)
Anyhow--He shows up with E))en War@ -- his current suck up at the time...and We have to tell him we can talk in the garage. (it as carpeted--nice May evening--the door was open and its not a bad ugly place to be) be tht as it may - he was insulted.
He kept telling us we have to trust the Trustees (Rosie and Don and whoever else was it in 1999) Eventually ^om only wants to talk to my husband and they go for a drive (rather crazy at the house that night)
My husband told him during their little drive we are not going to follow the trustees blindly...and that would be that. We never told him everything we knew--he wouldnt hear it anyhow. They blackmailed the 20 year old to move out of our house the same night.
2 Days later the "branch" was going to have an "ice cream social" which turned into the Mark and avoid LArry and Lianne meeting. We really didn't care. That same day earlier...my friend who had been beaten up by her husband and had already filed for divorce was told that she had better not get a loan for a car, becasue she would not be doing the will of God...The really sad thing is...both the BC and his wife knew what happend and why this woman, her children and her house guest were staying at our house, but never spent 2 minutes with her...just wanted to read us the riot act...talk about an idiot.
Later that year when The lawsuit papers that were filed were available publicly, we got copies and mailed them all 48 families in the ministry at the time in New Mexico. And a few others by request of other people who had left.
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