What I, however, DO LOOK at is the heart of the matter regarding that day in 1942: that God promised to teach Dr His Word “like it had not been known since the first century” if he would teach it to others. Since I fall into the category of those “others” that Dr taught, I’m in a pretty good position to asses the validity of the heart of the incident, i.e., the reported promise of God.
</snip>
I guess I'm in a pretty good position to assess the validity of the heart of the incident as well, since I also fall into that category. I also have the added experience of having 2 family members who are pathological liars and having studied narcissistic personality disorder the past couple of years. that awareness coupled with the consistent testimony of more than a handful of witnesses that directly contradicts vpw's testimony on numerous topics and the evidence of plagiarism of his so-called revelations lead me to an entirely different conclusion. the reported promise of God and accompanying snowstorm should not be assessed from inside a sterile vacuum, but should rather be assessed in the greater context of a lifetime of self-serving narcissistic grandiosity.
Likewise, I am uninterested in returning to the wars. Hearing your justifications for the absurdities to which you have succumbed is too exhausting. If you're happy running on your hamster's wheel and calling it exercise, stuck in a cage and calling it freedom, I promise, as my 2009 resolution, not to try to take that away from you.
Contrary to my previous ten years of ministry investigations, these last ten years have TOTALLY ignored all other information (especially the negatives) on Dr’s ministry, no matter who offered it.
Congratulations!
You have successfully demonstrated your mastery of session #7.
(Never allow yourself to think critically or "consider", lest the boogie man should get to you like he got to Eve.)
Not only was he not a doctor, but I find refering to him simply as"doctor", (you know, as in 'when Doctor taught us such-and-such') as opposed to "doctor Wierwille" somewhat creepy.
what I find a little more creepy.. or sad, someone, who is obviously intelligent.. a mature adult, and over fifty years old at that.. in face of the facts, the character of his creepiness, STILL refer to the mogster as "doctor", when in my honest opinion, they have the intellectual ability and logic to know much much better..
continual appeals to not throw out "the baby" with the bathwater..
"From my earlier ten years (1888-1998) of investigating the kinds of things commonly reported here"
Forgot it?
No, I don't think so.
Note carefully that when I quoted you, I included the words "Contrary to my my previous ten years,etc."
Had I wished to distort your position, I would have ignored that qualifier.
Your words, not mine.
"Contrary to my previous ten years of ministry investigations, these last ten years have TOTALLY ignored all other information (especially the negatives) on Dr’s ministry, no matter who offered it."
Having done all -------STAND! (And keep that ABS flowing, I need a new Harley.)
Hmmm IT is sad to me that the ONE THING that VPW taught THE ONE REDEMING THING
Was to STUDY the WORD of GOD not the word of VPW. This one thing is totally ignored by some people and was completely and utterly ignored by VPW... To me if a person were to ignore all the other horrible stuff VPW did..
This one thing above all should be the ONE thing that tells some one that VPW is not a Man of GOD, or man of God. or even a good Christian.
It was his Corporate mission statement if you will... oh yes! It is what we were all told and why many of us got in and ignored some of those red flags. We kept expecting them to get it right and some people even tried to show what they found in the word to their leadership only to be told that what VPW taught was the important thing.
The ministry was supposed to be about studying the word of GOD and when something was different in the word from what was being taught ... then This supposed man of God promised to change the teaching and his own behavior and we did too.
As far as I can see that never happened.
If one were to ignore all the other stuff... This one thing ought to be very telling indeed.
The ministry was supposed to be about studying the word of GOD and when something was different in the word from what was being taught ... then This supposed man of God promised to change the teaching and his own behavior and we did too.
As far as I can see that never happened.
If one were to ignore all the other stuff... This one thing ought to be very telling indeed.
Right on leafytwiglet! As a matter of fact, that is exactly why I left TWI.
I did study on my own, using the "tools" they supplied me with. All seemed fine unless I found a "different slant" on something which made more sense. Trying to show the "leadershi*" was like pulling teeth!
I eventually found something so wonderful it would have blown their socks off! However, in order to see THAT, it was necessary to "tweak" a couple of things which had been taught wrong since the beginning, concerning "administrations".
After probably "too long", I gave up on them, finally acknowledging their apparent APATHY. They were (and ARE, and always HAVE BEEN) steeped in their own tradition. I like to view it this way - As Jesus Christ came to "his own" and was rejected, he said "Lo, I turn to the Gentiles". In my own way, I say the same. They had their shot at it, and blew it. Now it is far from them, and so am I!
I finally understand their "take" on the following verse:
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
They believe it means to get to the point that you see what they found was CORRECT. If otherwise, it may be necessary to read your "blue book" again for the 100th time! HA!
But we know different, 'cause we can think for ourselves instead of being the mindless puppets they wanted us to be. Let them stay STAGNANT! Let their numbers, and their land, and their holdings, and their finances continue to dwindle until there is nothing left at all!
Spec
:)
PS: leafytwiglet: Thanks for the help and compliment with my avatar the other day. (There is much behind that....LOL!)
Here we are exploring the difference between revelation and phenomena using what as a point of reference?
The advanced class texts. Not scripture. Nope. Some man made definition. Is there somewhere in the scriptures where a line of demarcation is drawn separating the two? How about the definitions for word of knowledge, word of wisdom, etc.? What about "The Great Principle"? All man made, not to be found in the scriptures per se. And those man made definitions and the great principle (and Chart) didn't even originate with wierwille in the first place. He took them, word for word, from another source (was it J.E. Stiles?) who he blatantly neglected to credit in order to bolster his image of one who had privileged information that hadn't been known since the first dish of millet was served. How do I know wierwille's alleged snowstorm incident should be technically classified as phenomenon, not run of the mill revelation? Simple. Wierwille said so.
The ministry was supposed to be about studying the word of GOD and when something was different in the word from what was being taught ... then This supposed man of God promised to change the teaching and his own behavior and we did too.
As far as I can see that never happened.
If one were to ignore all the other stuff... This one thing ought to be very telling indeed.
It occasionally happened, but not with any major doctrines. And the fact that it occasionally happened served to perpetuate the illusion that we were a research ministry studying God's Word, rather than just reworking VPW's words.
God's Spirit teaches His creation in you which is now your spirit and your spirit teaches your mind. Then it becomes manifested in the senses realm as you act.
Contrast that to:
Page 270/ PFAL
Spiritual things can only be known by the spirit
So, if spiritual things can only be known by the spirit, how does your spirit teach your mind?
Page 270 states that faith spans the chasm between natural man and God. "The bridge is faith".
It goes on to cite Romans 10:17----"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God"
Maybe I'm missing something. How in heaven's name can this verse be interpreted as specifically meaning that your spirit teaches your mind?
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potato
I guess I'm in a pretty good position to assess the validity of the heart of the incident as well, since I also fall into that category. I also have the added experience of having 2 family members who are pathological liars and having studied narcissistic personality disorder the past couple of years. that awareness coupled with the consistent testimony of more than a handful of witnesses that directly contradicts vpw's testimony on numerous topics and the evidence of plagiarism of his so-called revelations lead me to an entirely different conclusion. the reported promise of God and accompanying snowstorm should not be assessed from inside a sterile vacuum, but should rather be assessed in the greater context of a lifetime of self-serving narcissistic grandiosity.
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Raf
Webster's 12th edition, page 637:
re.dun.dant: (adj). see "redundant"
Mike,
Likewise, I am uninterested in returning to the wars. Hearing your justifications for the absurdities to which you have succumbed is too exhausting. If you're happy running on your hamster's wheel and calling it exercise, stuck in a cage and calling it freedom, I promise, as my 2009 resolution, not to try to take that away from you.
Drat, broke it already.
Sigh.
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waysider
Congratulations!
You have successfully demonstrated your mastery of session #7.
(Never allow yourself to think critically or "consider", lest the boogie man should get to you like he got to Eve.)
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Mike
waysider,
Come on now... be nice...
You forgot this part:
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Ham
the only thing I'll say.. no. He wasn't a "Doctor", by any stretch of the imagination.
No.. vic was NOT a doctor. Never was.. and where he probably is, very likely, he never will be.
NEEDED a "doctor", perhaps. Maybe even a whole team of "doctors". WAS a doctor? No.
Just to set the record straight..
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Oakspear
Not only was he not a doctor, but I find refering to him simply as"doctor", (you know, as in 'when Doctor taught us such-and-such') as opposed to "doctor Wierwille" somewhat creepy.
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Ham
what I find a little more creepy.. or sad, someone, who is obviously intelligent.. a mature adult, and over fifty years old at that.. in face of the facts, the character of his creepiness, STILL refer to the mogster as "doctor", when in my honest opinion, they have the intellectual ability and logic to know much much better..
continual appeals to not throw out "the baby" with the bathwater..
the vicster isn't exactly the "baby"..
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Ham
ACTED like one, threw fits, tantrums.. needed constant attention and adoration LIKE the baby, but, no, he was not the "baby".
just setting the record straight..
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waysider
Forgot it?
No, I don't think so.
Note carefully that when I quoted you, I included the words "Contrary to my my previous ten years,etc."
Had I wished to distort your position, I would have ignored that qualifier.
Your words, not mine.
"Contrary to my previous ten years of ministry investigations, these last ten years have TOTALLY ignored all other information (especially the negatives) on Dr’s ministry, no matter who offered it."
Having done all -------STAND! (And keep that ABS flowing, I need a new Harley.)
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WordWolf
It's also premature to accept that the previous time in any form included a fair, unbiased
examination or even an honest skepticism.
That was the same time-period you referred to transcribing vpw tapes to the
disciples who transcribed Paul's letter.
If you're adamant about dancing a few more rounds, Mike, I'll call for the band
to play a few more numbers. On the other hand, we can save the time and
skip the next round.....
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Mike
Th... thee...the...thee...the...thee
That's All Folks!
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leafytwiglet
Hmmm IT is sad to me that the ONE THING that VPW taught THE ONE REDEMING THING
Was to STUDY the WORD of GOD not the word of VPW. This one thing is totally ignored by some people and was completely and utterly ignored by VPW... To me if a person were to ignore all the other horrible stuff VPW did..
This one thing above all should be the ONE thing that tells some one that VPW is not a Man of GOD, or man of God. or even a good Christian.
It was his Corporate mission statement if you will... oh yes! It is what we were all told and why many of us got in and ignored some of those red flags. We kept expecting them to get it right and some people even tried to show what they found in the word to their leadership only to be told that what VPW taught was the important thing.
The ministry was supposed to be about studying the word of GOD and when something was different in the word from what was being taught ... then This supposed man of God promised to change the teaching and his own behavior and we did too.
As far as I can see that never happened.
If one were to ignore all the other stuff... This one thing ought to be very telling indeed.
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spectrum49
Right on leafytwiglet! As a matter of fact, that is exactly why I left TWI.
I did study on my own, using the "tools" they supplied me with. All seemed fine unless I found a "different slant" on something which made more sense. Trying to show the "leadershi*" was like pulling teeth!
I eventually found something so wonderful it would have blown their socks off! However, in order to see THAT, it was necessary to "tweak" a couple of things which had been taught wrong since the beginning, concerning "administrations".
After probably "too long", I gave up on them, finally acknowledging their apparent APATHY. They were (and ARE, and always HAVE BEEN) steeped in their own tradition. I like to view it this way - As Jesus Christ came to "his own" and was rejected, he said "Lo, I turn to the Gentiles". In my own way, I say the same. They had their shot at it, and blew it. Now it is far from them, and so am I!
I finally understand their "take" on the following verse:
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
They believe it means to get to the point that you see what they found was CORRECT. If otherwise, it may be necessary to read your "blue book" again for the 100th time! HA!
But we know different, 'cause we can think for ourselves instead of being the mindless puppets they wanted us to be. Let them stay STAGNANT! Let their numbers, and their land, and their holdings, and their finances continue to dwindle until there is nothing left at all!
Spec
:)
PS: leafytwiglet: Thanks for the help and compliment with my avatar the other day. (There is much behind that....LOL!)
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waysider
Circular logic in action
Here we are exploring the difference between revelation and phenomena using what as a point of reference?
The advanced class texts. Not scripture. Nope. Some man made definition. Is there somewhere in the scriptures where a line of demarcation is drawn separating the two? How about the definitions for word of knowledge, word of wisdom, etc.? What about "The Great Principle"? All man made, not to be found in the scriptures per se. And those man made definitions and the great principle (and Chart) didn't even originate with wierwille in the first place. He took them, word for word, from another source (was it J.E. Stiles?) who he blatantly neglected to credit in order to bolster his image of one who had privileged information that hadn't been known since the first dish of millet was served. How do I know wierwille's alleged snowstorm incident should be technically classified as phenomenon, not run of the mill revelation? Simple. Wierwille said so.
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cheranne
vpw was a "jeffro bodine"wanna be beverly hillybilly corn farmer that was so vain.
He thought everything was about him,the ambassador I,the bus,the leisure suits.
He was if anything a shrewd buisnessman. <_<
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Ham
I'll have to remember that statement the next time something like this crosses my path..
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Mark Clarke
It occasionally happened, but not with any major doctrines. And the fact that it occasionally happened served to perpetuate the illusion that we were a research ministry studying God's Word, rather than just reworking VPW's words.
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cheranne
and vpw was a snowglobe head!
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waysider
Page 8/ AC syllabus
The Great Principle
God's Spirit teaches His creation in you which is now your spirit and your spirit teaches your mind. Then it becomes manifested in the senses realm as you act.
Contrast that to:
Page 270/ PFAL
Spiritual things can only be known by the spirit
So, if spiritual things can only be known by the spirit, how does your spirit teach your mind?
Page 270 states that faith spans the chasm between natural man and God. "The bridge is faith".
It goes on to cite Romans 10:17----"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God"
Maybe I'm missing something. How in heaven's name can this verse be interpreted as specifically meaning that your spirit teaches your mind?
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Mike
There are more pieces to this puzzle on pages 23 and 24 of "The Bible Tells Me So."
Then, still more pieces can be found on page 14 of "God's Magnified Word," Volume IV.
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waysider
Are you referring to this?
"We can not know anything about the spiritual world by way of the senses."?
(page 24)
Last time I checked, the mind was in the realm of the senses.
So then how can "your spirit teach your mind"?
And, more importantly, how does Romans 10:17 (in any way, shape or manner) prove that "your spirit teaches your mind."?
The whole class is so filled with contradictions and unsubstantiated claims, it has no merit or value.
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Oakspear
Along the lines of "God can only give that which he is...spirit"
It falls apart with light prodding
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