Dove, your rant makes no sense whatsoever. Sorry, I think that either you are reading a lot of things into my posts that were never intended, or being deliberately ugly. This mix and match parsing of quotes made to different posters concerning different topics, together to manufacture a false premiss on which to attack in some kind of weird *gotcha* game is not honest, nor a very good representation of what you claim to stand for.
Nice try, but actually the topics and context was the same VF. your words ,you don't know the man yet you seem to want to pontificate on what he is ,does ,or stands for. You were not there you don't know.
Probably for the same reason that you post here time and again your personal rants about..... Gee just about everyone. And how you, who somehow escaped and have become the poster boy for how to do it. Yeah we get it you are the man with all the answers, you can enlighten us on how everyone else is doing, all from your keyboard and your 20 year old memories. What's you purpose for burdening us with yet another of your self righteous lectures? Does it still sting that you did not make it in the religious circle and they did?
IMHO it is called a conscience. . . with the 20 year time and distance being able to distinguish between right and wrong. . . having a moral code or ethical standard upon which to base one's opinions.
It does sting when someone stands up and says "Gee, this is wrong". . . but, it is worse when they actually have the ethics on their side. NOT continuing in the same false religious circles adds credence to DWBH's words.
That shows some essemblance of morality.
That is what makes his posts credible for goodness sake.
Oh, but Lord forbid we call em like we see em!! Might actually offend an ex-faithful.
Sometimes the blurred lines here. . . are too reminiscent and down right creepy.
TWI was and remains an abusive cult. . . the offshoots. . . have their roots in and founders FROM this abusive cult. I don't care what flavor of the month aberrant faith they practice. . .whatever they "Pick" is going to come from these same. . . . rotten blind roots.
IMHO it is called a conscience. . . with the 20 year time and distance being able to distinguish between right and wrong. . . having a moral code or ethical standard upon which to base one's opinions.
It does sting when someone stands up and says "Gee, this is wrong". . . but, it is worse when they actually have the ethics on their side. NOT continuing in the same false religious circles adds credence to DWBH's words.
That shows some essemblance of morality.
That is what makes his posts credible for goodness sake.
Oh, but Lord forbid we call em like we see em!! Might actually offend an ex-faithful.
Sometimes the blurred lines here. . . are too reminiscent and down right creepy.
TWI was and remains an abusive cult. . . the offshoots. . . have their roots in and founders FROM this abusive cult. I don't care what flavor of the month aberrant faith they practice. . .whatever they "Pick" is going to come from these same. . . . rotten blind roots.
Well that is certainly one possibility , I can think of a few others. Of course you would think there is credibility to one's posts that agree with a one sided agenda. If your criteria is it agrees with what I like to hear, some people will believe anything.
Well that is certainly one possibility , I can think of a few others. Of course you would think there is credibility to one's posts that agree with a one sided agenda. If your criteria is it agrees with what I like to hear, some people will believe anything.
There are moral and important reasons why watchmen stand guard against groups like TWI and LHIM.
They have to do with the difference between right and wrong. . . we were experts at blurring those lines in TWI. . . I just think it is well past time to get a handle on it.
No Dove, what I DID was discuss why I would never deem the man or any man that was an off shoot leader or ex twi leader who hadn`t genuinely repented and apologized as unworthy of trust, Their doctrine makes what they did ok, they`re forgiven by God, nothing else matters, it`s in the past.etc....anyone who speaks of it is a liar of back biter.....Scripturaly, spiritually however, I don`t believe that is accurate. It is a huge indication and a big red flag indicating a lack of change where it matters the most.
I never claimed to know him or be in his presence. I never claimed to be on par with Jesus, I only pointed out when oldies tried to accuse us of back biting and gossip that Jesus did the same thing in his day.
Now, that is how I see things, that is my opinion on this subject, I would appreciate being allowed to present my pov, without it being used as a spring board for nastiness based on every other thing that you detest about me, ok?
firstly, i want to apologize for having allowed myself to get "sucked in" to this thread, started by om, with the obnoxious (imho) title and subtitle which baited me into another almost worthless discussion on the merits, or lack thereof, of another run-of-the-mill twi offshoot, led by another ex-twi "clergyman" who has done little, if anything, to improve his credentials as a "legitimate" christian clergyman. vinny has simply, again, imho, continued his "personal ministry" using all his twi monetary and "spiritual" connections, and all the organizational structure education he garnered in twi, to continue to make a good "living", as ham pointed out, in the fringe, right-wing, so-called "christian" educational/outreach movement akin to the basics of twi-like organizational/financial structures......unaccredited by any recognized accreditting agencies of christian or academic "mainstream" accreditdation institutions, and based on the false humility of self-aggrandizing, self-serving, "biographical" data which still acknowledges wierwillian theology and "ministry" as being somehow worthy of respect, recognition, or some kind of worthiness of "christian" respect and accomplishment.
personally, i think this kind of thread belongs in the doctrinal forum, or even more appropriately, in the soap opera forum...........mark clarke has his own website as does vinny......why do greasespotters like om feel it necessary to promote their interests in such phoney "religious leaders" by calling attention to them in a forum that is designed to expose the old and current lies, extortions, and abuses of twi and its various offshoots? is it really in the interest of "first ammendment" freedoms, or their sophomoric dedication to the "greatness" of the freedoms and liberties they scream so loudly about, that this nation espouses?..........is that the purpose of this website?
what is the purpose of a thread like this om, or mark clarke?.........why do you feel it necessary to burden the greasespot with yet another unabashed promo for a former twi "bigshot" who, in your opinion, somehow merits acceptance, approval, or recognition for having "moved on" in a direction that you think is meritorious?..........if you think vinny's church is so "right-on", then just join, or tell us how great you think he is in the doctrinal forum.........this is it for me regarding this discussion.............i have long ago abandoned any notion that folks like vinny, jalvis, clapp, seed, geer, et al, will ever really come clean, or apologize willingly to the hundreds they despitefully used and abused in order to get out of twi and maintain a lifestyle similar to their idol, der victoid...........their rhetoric, and the excuses made for them by the likes of om, mark clarke and others here, are painfully and woefully long overplayed, and disproven, imho.
i have made the mistake of voicing personal issues with folks like vinny here.......i have tried to be open and honest with my feelings about them...........my mistake.............perhaps inappropriate for a forum like this.........but, imho, far less inappropriate than the shameless promotion of "ministries" like vinny's by folks like om, mark clarke and some others, who disguise their personal religious choices under the cloak of "free speech" that they assume is a right granted to them by this website.........
again........if you like vinny and his church..........with promoters like his son sean, a graduate of yet another unaccreditted "bible college" like his father.....or victor paul gluckin, another graduate of the same unaccreditted "christian bible college"..........and defenders of the us constitution like om and others here.......why not post in the doctrinal or soap opera forums????..............as for me...........i'm done with this baiting thread.......and the baiters.......sorry i wasted my time and your's!.........................peace.
DWBH,
Sounds like you need to get unplugged from your computer. Take a break man. Relax, and have a great weekend. :)
No Dove, what I DID was discuss why I would never deem the man or any man that was an off shoot leader or ex twi leader who hadn`t genuinely repented and apologized as unworthy of trust, Their doctrine makes what they did ok, they`re forgiven by God, nothing else matters, it`s in the past.etc....anyone who speaks of it is a liar of back biter.....Scripturaly, spiritually however, I don`t believe that is accurate. It is a huge indication and a big red flag indicating a lack of change where it matters the most.
I never claimed to know him or be in his presence. I never claimed to be on par with Jesus, I only pointed out when oldies tried to accuse us of back biting and gossip that Jesus did the same thing in his day.
Now, that is how I see things, that is my opinion on this subject, I would appreciate being allowed to present my pov, without it being used as a spring board for nastiness based on every other thing that you detest about me, ok?
And you had your opportunity to do just that , and I have mine, to point out my opinion that 1. you don't know if he has or has not repented ,because you don't know what he is doing by your own admission. and 2. you were not there, the mantra you demand from me needs to apply to you as well in your observations, if that is the standard for logic you are going to throw out there. and 3. Jesus did not do what you are doing he knew of that which he spoke, a large difference, He did not ask a Trinitarian who most likely in the interest of disclosure has a problem with a organization and it's followers that printed a book on Jesus Christ is not God for a fair assessment of what they are is doing. Nor a former MOG that was fired from his cush job and relies on his 20 year old memory of how things are. No Jesus knew the state of affairs before he opened his mouth. This has not a thing to do with you personally just clearing up the record of facts.
Interesting how you can say it but not hear it when the shoe is on the other foot.
I hear just fine actually the question you asked was .........
QUOTE (waysider @ Mar 26 2009, 09:17 PM)
Should this same standard apply to those who never experienced communal life in The Way?
to which my response was.......
Obviously ,that was the point if one applies then so should the same from the other side of the argument.
If geographical presence is the standard for which one is credible to speak then it should remain the same for all pro or con. Like or dislike for the person ,event ,organization ect. should not be a factor. You asked if I agreed with that I did , IF that is the standard. Personally I think that is a flawed standard. And most likely would decrease the posts here dramatically. While personal presence is certainly advantageous ,it is not the only means to know what is factual. Case in point I was not present in NY when the towers fell ,but there is a vast amount of video, newspaper articles, magazines ,TV, internet, and so forth to give one a factual picture of what occurred. Personal accounts coupled with hard evidence when compiled makes one qualified to speak with accuracy even all the way from Kansas.
I disagree, I have offered my opinion on why I wouldn`t find VF of ANY ex twi/off shoot leader believable or their doctrine trustworthy..
Being aware of the toxic and dangerous roots of his belief system, his lack of repentance, along with his refusal to publicly recognize and condemn the false prophet who led so many astray....combined with his continued of veneration of a man whom hurt so many many people....lead me to find him lacking in credibility and character....a man and organization to be regarded with suspicion.
Jesus warned against the danger and hypocracy of the spiritual leaders who were harming people in God`s name. I see no difference in that and what we do.
We were given guide posts by which to measure the spiritual quality of what which is unseen in people or groups. We have learned first hand what it means to ignore or dismiss those signs. Until I see change, a departure from the established norm of twi doctrinal contamination, I will remain suspiscious.
Ironic but darned entertaining Waysider. Think of it - no cable fees - no movie tickets and expensive popcorn - etc. White Dove posts some of the most entertaining faulty pseudo-logic on this entire site. And... to make it even better he will always rise to the bait. Tell him the sky is blue - he'll have a correction for you about red sunsets - tell him you think vince hooligan is a tramp and he will tell you how vince is a true believer and carries on the light of justice etc etc etc.
White Dove has missed his true calling. He should have been a stand up comedian who pretended to take himself seriously - oh uhh that's right ...that's what he is now... meanwhile I am entertained immensely for free...
And were you personally involved ? Were you there? By your own admission no. So what gives you the right to speak with any authority? Isn't that your argument or does in only apply one way?
It's quite ironic, I think, how indignant you, yourself, become when people call your attention to your own lack of personal involvement in programs like the Way Corps, WOW and Fellow Laborers. And yet, you insist you know what must have gone on in those programs even though you admit you never participated in those programs or even beyond the local level. Kinda looks like the pot calling the kettle black.
Like DWBH, I regret getting sucked into this argument. What is the point, what is the profit? It's not about trying to shut up the people who dare to speak up about wrongs. I haven't done that, nor will I. The bad things that went on or still go on, which are known about, should not be swept under the carpet.
But on the other hand, it seems most people are going to believe what they want to believe, and will only hear what they want to hear. Their minds are already made up. This has already been seen in several posts on this thread alone. As DWBH said, it's a free country.
I'll just leave you with the following.
Prov. 18:
13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
Eph. 4:
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.
I Peter 3:
8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
Ironic but darned entertaining Waysider. Think of it - no cable fees - no movie tickets and expensive popcorn - etc. White Dove posts some of the most entertaining faulty pseudo-logic on this entire site. And... to make it even better he will always rise to the bait. Tell him the sky is blue - he'll have a correction for you about red sunsets - tell him you think vince hooligan is a tramp and he will tell you how vince is a true believer and carries on the light of justice etc etc etc.
White Dove has missed his true calling. He should have been a stand up comedian who pretended to take himself seriously - oh uhh that's right ...that's what he is now... meanwhile I am entertained immensely for free...
What? was the running busines slow and you broke into the case today?
Mark, considering that bible quotation was used to justify and enforce submition to vicious abuse, abortion, adultery, sexual servitude.....etc. I guess that scripture being quoted to substantiate a point or the rightness of one`s argument doesn`t hold much credibility any more.
This isn`t about believing what we want to believe, it is about reasonable doubt engendered by the past and present conduct of a man who proclaims to be representing and serving God.
I haven`t seen any indication that VF and his ministry is any different than the rest of the off shoots contaminated by twi doctrine. Untill I have seen that this isn`t the case, I will continue to view him and any others who venerate wierwille, who don`t tell the truth about wierwille with suspicion and mistrust.
DWBH mentions his regret and suggests other possible homes for this thread, especially the soap opera thread and then another poster comes in and aggresively confronts anyone who seems willing to go at it with him. Haven't those tactics been reported commonly of Martindale and other top TWI leadership?
I guess inspiration doesn't have to come from a higher plane at all.....no matter the avatar.
Dear Mark Clarke,
While I would be inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt concerning your knowledge of Finnigan from some sort of personal contact; to me his silence concerning his mistakes as a minister is more than enough for me to reject him as a serious prospect to minister to anyone that I know without a strong warning from me at least.
Since this is not a doctrinal discussion I will not quote scriptures right now at all, but the nature of the reported allegations among TWI leadership are far, far beyond simple mistakes. We are talking about delusions of granduer and vile abuses of many people on many different levels with a deliberate pattern of public silence mixed with missinformation on the part of The Way International and it's top leadership.
GEE, SIGN ME UP VINCE, I CANNOT WAIT TO SPEND YEARS PROVING OR SEEKING TO FIND OUT IF YOU HAVE RECOVERED FROM TWI LEADERSHIP HABIT PATTERNS WHILE I SEND YOU MY MONEY! (not yelling, just emphasis)
I hear just fine actually the question you asked was .........
to which my response was.......
Obviously ,that was the point if one applies then so should the same from the other side of the argument.
If geographical presence is the standard for which one is credible to speak then it should remain the same for all pro or con. Like or dislike for the person ,event ,organization ect. should not be a factor. You asked if I agreed with that I did , IF that is the standard. Personally I think that is a flawed standard. And most likely would decrease the posts here dramatically. While personal presence is certainly advantageous ,it is not the only means to know what is factual. Case in point I was not present in NY when the towers fell ,but there is a vast amount of video, newspaper articles, magazines ,TV, internet, and so forth to give one a factual picture of what occurred. Personal accounts coupled with hard evidence when compiled makes one qualified to speak with accuracy even all the way from Kansas.
A factual picture?...You mean to tell me that you never went wow or were in the corps but you have a "factual picture"???
You have no experiencial knowledge but you do have a "factual picture"? "Geographical presence" has nothing to do with it...plain and simple...you never experienced these programs...Therefore, you have no credibility whatsoever when it comes to understanding what actually happened to those of us who DID go through these programs...
A factual picture?...You mean to tell me that you never went wow or were in the corps but you have a "factual picture"???
You have no experiencial knowledge but you do have a "factual picture"? "Geographical presence" has nothing to do with it...plain and simple...you never experienced these programs...Therefore, you have no credibility whatsoever when it comes to understanding what actually happened to those of us who DID go through these programs...
If geographical presence is the standard for which one is credible to speak then it should remain the same for all pro or con. Like or dislike for the person ,event ,organization ect. should not be a factor. You asked if I agreed with that I did , IF that is the standard. Personally I think that is a flawed standard. And most likely would decrease the posts here dramatically. While personal presence is certainly advantageous ,it is not the only means to know what is factual. Case in point I was not present in NY when the towers fell ,but there is a vast amount of video, newspaper articles, magazines ,TV, internet, and so forth to give one a factual picture of what occurred. Personal accounts coupled with hard evidence when compiled makes one qualified to speak with accuracy even all the way from Kansas.
Remind me again how you know what Mrs. Wierwille said at a funeral that YOU were not at?
Remind us again White Dune why it is that you believe that the World Trade Towers went down even though you WERE NOT THERE!!! JEEEZUZZ dude - get a marginally functioning brain - and please NEVER enroll in one of my math or logic classes - All wayisms aside, and solely based on your posts, you would no longer pass a HS logic class. But hey - NP - I was never known as an easy math professor.
Remind me again how you know what Mrs. Wierwille said at a funeral that YOU were not at? [/color]
Sorry Dove, that makes absolutely no sense. You apparently have a problem with people holding you accountable. It simply is not credible for you to deny the experiences, teachings, standards that people were held to in various programs, in other states, at different time periods, having never been a participant yourself, and having only been in one small geographic area.
Sorry, that is how it is. Sorry that chaps your bu tt. That does not make it right for you to relentlessly troll through the forums, looking for a reason to try to destroy the credibility and try to call into question the veracity of the people who actually DID participate, who really DO want to discuss the events experienced.
Do you not think that every damned one of us wish that we had been permitted to enjoy your idyllic twi experiences? That we don`t wish with all of our hearts that twi was as you portrayed it for us??? What you do is mean and disruptive, no matter how you justify it to yourself.
Remind us again White Dune why it is that you believe that the World Trade Towers went down even though you WERE NOT THERE!!! JEEEZUZZ dude - get a marginally functioning brain - and please NEVER enroll in one of my math or logic classes - All wayisms aside, and solely based on your posts, you would no longer pass a HS logic class. But hey - NP - I was never known as an easy math professor.
I guess you were never known as one who could read either......
I think I pretty much did, factual information the same kind that is available on any subject. One does not need to be present to be in the know, one only has to access information that is factual.
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Tzaia
So did that make you well informed or a busy-body?
WhiteDove
Obviously ,that was the point if one applies then so should the same from the other side of the argument.
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WhiteDove
Nice try, but actually the topics and context was the same VF. your words ,you don't know the man yet you seem to want to pontificate on what he is ,does ,or stands for. You were not there you don't know.
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geisha779
IMHO it is called a conscience. . . with the 20 year time and distance being able to distinguish between right and wrong. . . having a moral code or ethical standard upon which to base one's opinions.
It does sting when someone stands up and says "Gee, this is wrong". . . but, it is worse when they actually have the ethics on their side. NOT continuing in the same false religious circles adds credence to DWBH's words.
That shows some essemblance of morality.
That is what makes his posts credible for goodness sake.
Oh, but Lord forbid we call em like we see em!! Might actually offend an ex-faithful.
Sometimes the blurred lines here. . . are too reminiscent and down right creepy.
TWI was and remains an abusive cult. . . the offshoots. . . have their roots in and founders FROM this abusive cult. I don't care what flavor of the month aberrant faith they practice. . .whatever they "Pick" is going to come from these same. . . . rotten blind roots.
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WhiteDove
Well that is certainly one possibility , I can think of a few others. Of course you would think there is credibility to one's posts that agree with a one sided agenda. If your criteria is it agrees with what I like to hear, some people will believe anything.
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geisha779
There are moral and important reasons why watchmen stand guard against groups like TWI and LHIM.
They have to do with the difference between right and wrong. . . we were experts at blurring those lines in TWI. . . I just think it is well past time to get a handle on it.
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waysider
Interesting how you can say it but not hear it when the shoe is on the other foot.
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rascal
No Dove, what I DID was discuss why I would never deem the man or any man that was an off shoot leader or ex twi leader who hadn`t genuinely repented and apologized as unworthy of trust, Their doctrine makes what they did ok, they`re forgiven by God, nothing else matters, it`s in the past.etc....anyone who speaks of it is a liar of back biter.....Scripturaly, spiritually however, I don`t believe that is accurate. It is a huge indication and a big red flag indicating a lack of change where it matters the most.
I never claimed to know him or be in his presence. I never claimed to be on par with Jesus, I only pointed out when oldies tried to accuse us of back biting and gossip that Jesus did the same thing in his day.
Now, that is how I see things, that is my opinion on this subject, I would appreciate being allowed to present my pov, without it being used as a spring board for nastiness based on every other thing that you detest about me, ok?
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oldiesman
DWBH,
Sounds like you need to get unplugged from your computer. Take a break man. Relax, and have a great weekend. :)
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WhiteDove
And you had your opportunity to do just that , and I have mine, to point out my opinion that 1. you don't know if he has or has not repented ,because you don't know what he is doing by your own admission. and 2. you were not there, the mantra you demand from me needs to apply to you as well in your observations, if that is the standard for logic you are going to throw out there. and 3. Jesus did not do what you are doing he knew of that which he spoke, a large difference, He did not ask a Trinitarian who most likely in the interest of disclosure has a problem with a organization and it's followers that printed a book on Jesus Christ is not God for a fair assessment of what they are is doing. Nor a former MOG that was fired from his cush job and relies on his 20 year old memory of how things are. No Jesus knew the state of affairs before he opened his mouth. This has not a thing to do with you personally just clearing up the record of facts.
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WhiteDove
I hear just fine actually the question you asked was .........
to which my response was.......
Obviously ,that was the point if one applies then so should the same from the other side of the argument.
If geographical presence is the standard for which one is credible to speak then it should remain the same for all pro or con. Like or dislike for the person ,event ,organization ect. should not be a factor. You asked if I agreed with that I did , IF that is the standard. Personally I think that is a flawed standard. And most likely would decrease the posts here dramatically. While personal presence is certainly advantageous ,it is not the only means to know what is factual. Case in point I was not present in NY when the towers fell ,but there is a vast amount of video, newspaper articles, magazines ,TV, internet, and so forth to give one a factual picture of what occurred. Personal accounts coupled with hard evidence when compiled makes one qualified to speak with accuracy even all the way from Kansas.
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rascal
I disagree, I have offered my opinion on why I wouldn`t find VF of ANY ex twi/off shoot leader believable or their doctrine trustworthy..
Being aware of the toxic and dangerous roots of his belief system, his lack of repentance, along with his refusal to publicly recognize and condemn the false prophet who led so many astray....combined with his continued of veneration of a man whom hurt so many many people....lead me to find him lacking in credibility and character....a man and organization to be regarded with suspicion.
Jesus warned against the danger and hypocracy of the spiritual leaders who were harming people in God`s name. I see no difference in that and what we do.
We were given guide posts by which to measure the spiritual quality of what which is unseen in people or groups. We have learned first hand what it means to ignore or dismiss those signs. Until I see change, a departure from the established norm of twi doctrinal contamination, I will remain suspiscious.
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RumRunner
Ironic but darned entertaining Waysider. Think of it - no cable fees - no movie tickets and expensive popcorn - etc. White Dove posts some of the most entertaining faulty pseudo-logic on this entire site. And... to make it even better he will always rise to the bait. Tell him the sky is blue - he'll have a correction for you about red sunsets - tell him you think vince hooligan is a tramp and he will tell you how vince is a true believer and carries on the light of justice etc etc etc.
White Dove has missed his true calling. He should have been a stand up comedian who pretended to take himself seriously - oh uhh that's right ...that's what he is now... meanwhile I am entertained immensely for free...
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Mark Clarke
Like DWBH, I regret getting sucked into this argument. What is the point, what is the profit? It's not about trying to shut up the people who dare to speak up about wrongs. I haven't done that, nor will I. The bad things that went on or still go on, which are known about, should not be swept under the carpet.
But on the other hand, it seems most people are going to believe what they want to believe, and will only hear what they want to hear. Their minds are already made up. This has already been seen in several posts on this thread alone. As DWBH said, it's a free country.
I'll just leave you with the following.
God bless!
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WhiteDove
What? was the running busines slow and you broke into the case today?
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rascal
Mark, considering that bible quotation was used to justify and enforce submition to vicious abuse, abortion, adultery, sexual servitude.....etc. I guess that scripture being quoted to substantiate a point or the rightness of one`s argument doesn`t hold much credibility any more.
This isn`t about believing what we want to believe, it is about reasonable doubt engendered by the past and present conduct of a man who proclaims to be representing and serving God.
I haven`t seen any indication that VF and his ministry is any different than the rest of the off shoots contaminated by twi doctrine. Untill I have seen that this isn`t the case, I will continue to view him and any others who venerate wierwille, who don`t tell the truth about wierwille with suspicion and mistrust.
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waysider
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JeffSjo
So.....
DWBH mentions his regret and suggests other possible homes for this thread, especially the soap opera thread and then another poster comes in and aggresively confronts anyone who seems willing to go at it with him. Haven't those tactics been reported commonly of Martindale and other top TWI leadership?
I guess inspiration doesn't have to come from a higher plane at all.....no matter the avatar.
Dear Mark Clarke,
While I would be inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt concerning your knowledge of Finnigan from some sort of personal contact; to me his silence concerning his mistakes as a minister is more than enough for me to reject him as a serious prospect to minister to anyone that I know without a strong warning from me at least.
Since this is not a doctrinal discussion I will not quote scriptures right now at all, but the nature of the reported allegations among TWI leadership are far, far beyond simple mistakes. We are talking about delusions of granduer and vile abuses of many people on many different levels with a deliberate pattern of public silence mixed with missinformation on the part of The Way International and it's top leadership.
GEE, SIGN ME UP VINCE, I CANNOT WAIT TO SPEND YEARS PROVING OR SEEKING TO FIND OUT IF YOU HAVE RECOVERED FROM TWI LEADERSHIP HABIT PATTERNS WHILE I SEND YOU MY MONEY! (not yelling, just emphasis)
Just frigin great.
(edited for spelling and grammar)
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GrouchoMarxJr
A factual picture?...You mean to tell me that you never went wow or were in the corps but you have a "factual picture"???
You have no experiencial knowledge but you do have a "factual picture"? "Geographical presence" has nothing to do with it...plain and simple...you never experienced these programs...Therefore, you have no credibility whatsoever when it comes to understanding what actually happened to those of us who DID go through these programs...
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WhiteDove
Actually you are incorrect in your assumptions.
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rascal
Incorrect how? Which assumptions?
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WhiteDove
If geographical presence is the standard for which one is credible to speak then it should remain the same for all pro or con. Like or dislike for the person ,event ,organization ect. should not be a factor. You asked if I agreed with that I did , IF that is the standard. Personally I think that is a flawed standard. And most likely would decrease the posts here dramatically. While personal presence is certainly advantageous ,it is not the only means to know what is factual. Case in point I was not present in NY when the towers fell ,but there is a vast amount of video, newspaper articles, magazines ,TV, internet, and so forth to give one a factual picture of what occurred. Personal accounts coupled with hard evidence when compiled makes one qualified to speak with accuracy even all the way from Kansas.
Remind me again how you know what Mrs. Wierwille said at a funeral that YOU were not at?
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RumRunner
Remind us again White Dune why it is that you believe that the World Trade Towers went down even though you WERE NOT THERE!!! JEEEZUZZ dude - get a marginally functioning brain - and please NEVER enroll in one of my math or logic classes - All wayisms aside, and solely based on your posts, you would no longer pass a HS logic class. But hey - NP - I was never known as an easy math professor.
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rascal
Sorry Dove, that makes absolutely no sense. You apparently have a problem with people holding you accountable. It simply is not credible for you to deny the experiences, teachings, standards that people were held to in various programs, in other states, at different time periods, having never been a participant yourself, and having only been in one small geographic area.
Sorry, that is how it is. Sorry that chaps your bu tt. That does not make it right for you to relentlessly troll through the forums, looking for a reason to try to destroy the credibility and try to call into question the veracity of the people who actually DID participate, who really DO want to discuss the events experienced.
Do you not think that every damned one of us wish that we had been permitted to enjoy your idyllic twi experiences? That we don`t wish with all of our hearts that twi was as you portrayed it for us??? What you do is mean and disruptive, no matter how you justify it to yourself.
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WhiteDove
I guess you were never known as one who could read either......
I think I pretty much did, factual information the same kind that is available on any subject. One does not need to be present to be in the know, one only has to access information that is factual.
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