I think it started with the vicster, himself. He called himself that in the dialog with the "Indian Official" right in the first session of pfal. He had the Indian guy say
"That a *manogawd* would bless god's people, irrespective of whether they are christian or hindu.."
but he wouldn't call himself that, directly. He let others.
Maybe early corps could chime in on this.. my impression is that the concept of the vicster being some kind of prophet or apostle may have been drummed into them by the overseers..
same for vic II. He has little emissaries going about praising his itty bitty name..
I'm sure the terminology and implications have evolved over the years.
However, I can remember him being called "our father in The Word" and "The man of God for the World" and "The man of God for our time" in the early 1970's.
"VP, who called himself the "Man of God," which was inscribed on his little bracelet, was not the MOG."
Hi Eyes. No, sadly, I'm not joking. I was at HQ the beginning of my last year in residence. It was early fall and I was assigned the task for work of sweeping the patio area in front of VP's house.
I had noticed since my first year in residence he always wore this large silver ID bracelet. You could see there was an inscription, but I never got close enough to read it. But I was always curious as to what it said.
He was talking to someone, so I swept over to him, he was just a few feet away, read the inscription and continued on. He was intent on the man he was talking to and basically took no notice of me. That's what it said, "The Man of God." He wore it a lot.
Skyrider, ain't it the truth, how many offshoots are there now?
Ex10 - I never thought of it that way. Once the presidency was handed over to LCM, VP was kind of left on the back burner. I imagine that did not sit well with him. I can see why he'd go to CG - he was the one he felt would commiserate with him. VP and CG were truly birds of a feather.
I heard many bible references with inferences made to "the man of God." I sat thru plenty of Romans teachings where implications were made.....especially in corps training.
The corps director /corps coordinators propounded this terminology....and corps went forth carrying this message to others. Besides, men like cgeer, craiggers, vincef, and others were "elevated" by bestowing this title and the closeness of their association with him.
And,didn't vp soak in the adulation of this title (mog) when D@vid B@ilxy sang that song......."We'll follow the man of God wherever he wants to go, 'long as he want to go, onward against the foe.......We'll follow the man of God...
Wierwille's silence was consent.
Yep, I saw it with my own eyes.
Let's not leave it there....finish the thought.
Did that guy really originate the concept/term, or was it handed to him?
Was Mr "Greatest Revelation In Two Millenia",
Mr "Miraculous Snow Follows Me Around",
Mr "So Spiritual I Can Screen Pornography And Not Be Corrupted",
Mr "Stand When I Enter The Room",
Mr "Wear a Tux to Interview Me",
was he actually surprised when this song was done?
Or had he deliberately set the stage for it himself?
Remember his protege-
He had the nerve to appear surprised when someone suggested
that HE play the lead in the musical production HE was pushing.
(Satan's Alley/AOS)
Does anyone think, even for a moment, that he EVER seriously
entertained the option of having someone ELSE play the lead?
lcm was the un-subtle, blindingly-obvious ripoff of vpw all his days.
I say he saw vpw do it, and just carried on his "legacy".
While I have heard that Wierwille never called himself one directly, he nevertheless set himself up as an apostle -- by his own definition of 'apostle', combined with his claim that God told him that He would teach him the word like it had not been taught since the first century - if he would teach it to others.
Wierwille states:
"An apostle is one who brings new light to his generation.
It may be old revelation, but it is new to the generation to
whom he speaks." ( PFAL, p 352)
So God gives Wierwille the light and then Wierwille brings this light to his generation.
It's not a huge leap from apostle to the MOG and ultimately THE MOGFOT, especially when there were hundreds of adoring followers putting VPW up on his pedestal. The FOT part, (For Our Time) fits well with with VPW's definition of apostle. Our Time = Wierwille's Generation.
So, it seems to me that Wierwille himself started the MOGFOT stuff right there with the tale of the promise(sealed by a snowstorm) combined with with his own definition of apostle.
While apostleship a valid biblical concept, mogfotship would seem to be a nonbiblical TWI perversion of apostleship.
I recall quite vividly that Veepee was referred to as "thee man of God for the whole world" as early as 1975...This concept was promulgated by Wierwille himself...it was his idea, his concept, his con...all of it.
He set up other people to "teach it to us"...make no mistake, Wierwille was clever. He avoided referring directly to it himself...as previously stated, he defined the terms that placed himself in this position and then sat back (sipping drambuie), while everyone else proclaimed it...he knew what people were saying, he thrived on it, he lived for it, he craved it.
I'm sure we have all seen plenty of egomaniacs who crave adoration but Wierwille takes the cake...
Martindale didn't join twi until 1972...the mog concept was well in place before that...loyboy simply bought into it...Veepee's goal was to be Moses...we were "his kids"...I think back to those times and I feel like blowing my lunch.
Oh I find it hard to believe he never said it himself at some point.
His ego knew no bounds.
That he never said it while being taped and record we can be certain of... but I am sure there were plenty of opportunities to say it before 1969 and Plenty of other people were saying it after that.
Reading this stuff mkes me feel like throwing up..
When you here it in a twig it is a tiny peace but seeing it laid out here in it's totality, it makes me feel really rather ill.
I still remember when my WOW Family Coordinator went into the Corps and quit before the first year was out... I asked someone what happened and they said he left because he felt the ministry was ungodly because of the Weirwille worship. She(The gal I was talking to) of course thought he was being unreasonable but I knew Bill really well .. we had been WOW and I knew his love of God and his personal stand.
I wished I could talk to him but there was no internet then.
HE was smart to leave.
Of course Hubby and I left about two years after that, before the big Corps perge, but still I wish I had gotten a chance to talk to him then.
I probably would have heard a lot of this and maybe left sooner.
You know, Wordwolf, this is a little "hokey", but there is at least one other person I can think of that employed the same strategy of eliciting adulation and that was Richard Nixon. He used to have his lieutenants talk about his intelligence and other traits he wished he actually had. He even gave them the words to say. This has been documented by Henry Kissinger. There must be a manual somewhere of how to elicit worship. Anyway, Wierwille picked it up too.
I went to HQ in '74 and I heard Ted Ferrell sing, "Thanks to Calvary". When he got to the end of the song he would start adding different things to "Thanks to..." and he sang, "Thanks to the Man of God Who taught us all these things Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille!" and the audience would erupt into a loud cheer (including me, sadly). That was the first time I heard it. Also, in Advanced Class '79 Wierwille said that you could have the Word living in you so mightily that "you could tell someone to go get you a bucket of water and it would be the will of God." The implication being, of course, that the Word lived in him so mightily that whatever he said was the Will of God.
In any event, Tzai, it was definitely not hyperbole.
I remember back when I took PFAL and went to my first ROA how astounding it was that I (I!)should have happened to have found a group with the greatest man of God since the apostle Paul bringing all the new light. How special and life changing, how important to take a stand etc. It was a big part of why I got so invested in TWI.
I think it started with the vicster, himself. He called himself that in the dialog with the "Indian Official" right in the first session of pfal. He had the Indian guy say
"That a *manogawd* would bless god's people, irrespective of whether they are christian or hindu.."
but he wouldn't call himself that, directly. He let others.
Maybe early corps could chime in on this.. my impression is that the concept of the vicster being some kind of prophet or apostle may have been drummed into them by the overseers..
same for vic II. He has little emissaries going about praising his itty bitty name..
"The Way:Living in Love", copyright 1972.
pg-34
"But what The Doctor teaches in that class in 33 hours I couldn't
teach you in 33 hours. He's been doing research and teaching for 30 years now and he's a terrific teacher."
pg-82.
"They were black and white clips from the TV program called
'The Teacher'
that he had made out of Lima in 1963."
pg-215.
"It had never happened before that a man of God and his whole family went on a missionary tour. And I went unaffiliated, not under the flag of any denomination."
Wow, WordWolf, it's a freakin' miracle that news of VPW's healing touch would travel that quickly. Not sure how a member of Parliament could offer someone keys to any city, as even back then members of Parliament represented regions, but who am I to question the great man o' god?
Quoting that excerpt does uncover one disturbing thing: The way the mind will not let one critically assess certain things. The tendency to take something at face value while ignoring obvious problems is fascinating. At that time there was no reason to question the validity of what this guy said, and so nobody within the organization did. I can read that excerpt now and not doubt for a minute that he made it up. There's nothing included that would verify anything that he said, but it sounds pretty impressive.
The difference between this account and other people's accounts of their work on the mission field is that the emphasis is placed on Christ, not on what they are doing. VPW's emphasis is on him and what he did. At least that's my take on it.
MOG is "Molester of girls." See kids, initials are always explained right there on the bus, in the context or they've been abused before. But I'm glad you can't see it in the original.
At some Way event, CM had a small meeting with potential Corps applicants. I recall him saying, "If you don't believe Dr. Wierwille is the Man of God of the World, we don't want you."
Quoting that excerpt does uncover one disturbing thing: The way the mind will not let one critically assess certain things. The tendency to take something at face value while ignoring obvious problems is fascinating. At that time there was no reason to question the validity of what this guy said, and so nobody within the organization did. I can read that excerpt now and not doubt for a minute that he made it up. There's nothing included that would verify anything that he said, but it sounds pretty impressive.
There are several reasons for this, in my opinion.
One is that some of the stories in the initial segments are of the "why would he make that up?" variety. He tells stories on himself, like when he allegedly gave the sermon on the evils of alcohol, he came across pretty badly, and how the Korean (?) missionary suggested that he go straight to the bible to uncover the abundant life. It's like when somebody tells you that they went to high school with some obscure actor or musician, rather than a famous one, you figure it's so inconsequential, it must be the truth. He eases into the self-aggrandizing stories little by little.
Another is that he starts off by actually reading what's written and pointing out contradictions between what he reads and what mainline denominations believe. He builds trust and then gradually starts slipping in dubious Greek definitions and made up sources and lost documents. He does this so gradually that you barely notice that it's happening. Contrast this with Martindale's WayAP class, where he's screaming about the Trinity and abortion before you break for celery sticks and bad cofee.
There was NOTHING until the end. And at that point, it was so late we all wanted to get out of there pronto. Especially parents on a school night. Three hours of that c##p! Ugh! What was I thinking!!!
JT
There are several reasons for this, in my opinion.
One is that some of the stories in the initial segments are of the "why would he make that up?" variety. He tells stories on himself, like when he allegedly gave the sermon on the evils of alcohol, he came across pretty badly, and how the Korean (?) missionary suggested that he go straight to the bible to uncover the abundant life. It's like when somebody tells you that they went to high school with some obscure actor or musician, rather than a famous one, you figure it's so inconsequential, it must be the truth. He eases into the self-aggrandizing stories little by little.
Another is that he starts off by actually reading what's written and pointing out contradictions between what he reads and what mainline denominations believe. He builds trust and then gradually starts slipping in dubious Greek definitions and made up sources and lost documents. He does this so gradually that you barely notice that it's happening. Contrast this with Martindale's WayAP class, where he's screaming about the Trinity and abortion before you break for celery sticks and bad cofee.
Oak,
I think you're dead on. It fits the whole process. Give you everything in Pffle and you're a slave by the AC. Slave and slave driver, if you became a corpse.
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Ham
I think it started with the vicster, himself. He called himself that in the dialog with the "Indian Official" right in the first session of pfal. He had the Indian guy say
"That a *manogawd* would bless god's people, irrespective of whether they are christian or hindu.."
but he wouldn't call himself that, directly. He let others.
Maybe early corps could chime in on this.. my impression is that the concept of the vicster being some kind of prophet or apostle may have been drummed into them by the overseers..
same for vic II. He has little emissaries going about praising his itty bitty name..
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waysider
I'm sure the terminology and implications have evolved over the years.
However, I can remember him being called "our father in The Word" and "The man of God for the World" and "The man of God for our time" in the early 1970's.
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WordWolf
" Is the MOG of our times Biblical/Godly?"
"VP, who called himself the "Man of God," which was inscribed on his little bracelet, was not the MOG."
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WordWolf
"The Man of God of the Whole World."
"Is 'the MOG of our times' biblical/godly?"
"False Prophet or good minister with problems?"
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leafytwiglet
Oh I find it hard to believe he never said it himself at some point.
His ego knew no bounds.
That he never said it while being taped and record we can be certain of... but I am sure there were plenty of opportunities to say it before 1969 and Plenty of other people were saying it after that.
Reading this stuff mkes me feel like throwing up..
When you here it in a twig it is a tiny peace but seeing it laid out here in it's totality, it makes me feel really rather ill.
I still remember when my WOW Family Coordinator went into the Corps and quit before the first year was out... I asked someone what happened and they said he left because he felt the ministry was ungodly because of the Weirwille worship. She(The gal I was talking to) of course thought he was being unreasonable but I knew Bill really well .. we had been WOW and I knew his love of God and his personal stand.
I wished I could talk to him but there was no internet then.
HE was smart to leave.
Of course Hubby and I left about two years after that, before the big Corps perge, but still I wish I had gotten a chance to talk to him then.
I probably would have heard a lot of this and maybe left sooner.
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Broken Arrow
You know, Wordwolf, this is a little "hokey", but there is at least one other person I can think of that employed the same strategy of eliciting adulation and that was Richard Nixon. He used to have his lieutenants talk about his intelligence and other traits he wished he actually had. He even gave them the words to say. This has been documented by Henry Kissinger. There must be a manual somewhere of how to elicit worship. Anyway, Wierwille picked it up too.
I went to HQ in '74 and I heard Ted Ferrell sing, "Thanks to Calvary". When he got to the end of the song he would start adding different things to "Thanks to..." and he sang, "Thanks to the Man of God Who taught us all these things Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille!" and the audience would erupt into a loud cheer (including me, sadly). That was the first time I heard it. Also, in Advanced Class '79 Wierwille said that you could have the Word living in you so mightily that "you could tell someone to go get you a bucket of water and it would be the will of God." The implication being, of course, that the Word lived in him so mightily that whatever he said was the Will of God.
In any event, Tzai, it was definitely not hyperbole.
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Bramble
I remember back when I took PFAL and went to my first ROA how astounding it was that I (I!)should have happened to have found a group with the greatest man of God since the apostle Paul bringing all the new light. How special and life changing, how important to take a stand etc. It was a big part of why I got so invested in TWI.
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WordWolf
"The Way:Living in Love", copyright 1972.
pg-34
"But what The Doctor teaches in that class in 33 hours I couldn't
teach you in 33 hours. He's been doing research and teaching for 30 years now and he's a terrific teacher."
pg-82.
"They were black and white clips from the TV program called
'The Teacher'
that he had made out of Lima in 1963."
pg-215.
"It had never happened before that a man of God and his whole family went on a missionary tour. And I went unaffiliated, not under the flag of any denomination."
"
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WordWolf
Orange Book,
pg-29-31.
=========
Whenever I read this record from Mark 3, it reminds me of the times I was practicing the principles of the greatness
of God's Word in other countries of the world. On one occasion when I was teaching in Jubbulpore, India, a lady
who had worked in a mission service for thirty years was delivered by God's power of a number of sicknesses
which appeared incurable. This deliverance caused such a stir in the city of Jubbulpore the morning after the
miracle occurred, that when my family and I were ready to board the train and leave Jubbulpore,
hundreds of people gathered at the railroad depot. This crowd, which was composed mainly of Hindus,
wanted me to lay my hands on them individually because they thought that I must have some special
powers in my hands since I had laid my hands on the woman the previous day. They felt that if I just laid
my hands on them, they too would be delivered. Just before the train on which we were traveling moved
out of the depot, a high-caste Hindu, whose paralyzed arm was hanging limp at his side,
ran up to our railroad compartment. He said to me, "Will you pray for my arm?" However, he immediately
added, "But I do not believe in your Jesus."
What would you have done? I asked him if he believed God would deliver him. He said, "I believe that God
will heal me if you pray for me, but I do not believe in your Jesus." So again I asked him,
"Do you believe God will set you free?" And he said, "I believe God will heal me, but I do not believe in
your Jesus." I laid my hands on him, and I prayed that God would set him free in the name of Jesus Christ.
When I finished I said to him, "Now lift your arm." He began to put it up, and suddenly he thrust up both
of his arms. He leaped and shouted with tears streaming down his face. Once he had lifted his arm a little,
he realized the miracle. He was totally set free. About then the train began moving, and I said,
"Praise God; thank God that you were healed in the name of Jesus Christ."
At the next stop, a man came to our compartment in the train, saying that he was representing his master
who wanted to come and meet the man of God
He said his master was so-and-so, a member of Parliament
in New Delhi, who was also riding on the train. The member of Parliament then came to our compartment
to tell Mrs Wierwille and me that what he had seen in Jubbulpore was the most tremendous Christian event
that he had ever witnessed- that
a man of God would bless all God's people irrespective of whether they were
Christian or Hindu. He offered us the keys to his city and said that any time we wanted to minister in India,
the doors of India and the Far East would be open to us to teach the accuracy and the greatness of God's
Word. "
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RumRunner
May I simply puke now? WIerwille's concept of the "greatness of God's Word" was based on his ability to get an erection.
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Tzaia
Wow, WordWolf, it's a freakin' miracle that news of VPW's healing touch would travel that quickly. Not sure how a member of Parliament could offer someone keys to any city, as even back then members of Parliament represented regions, but who am I to question the great man o' god?
Quoting that excerpt does uncover one disturbing thing: The way the mind will not let one critically assess certain things. The tendency to take something at face value while ignoring obvious problems is fascinating. At that time there was no reason to question the validity of what this guy said, and so nobody within the organization did. I can read that excerpt now and not doubt for a minute that he made it up. There's nothing included that would verify anything that he said, but it sounds pretty impressive.
The difference between this account and other people's accounts of their work on the mission field is that the emphasis is placed on Christ, not on what they are doing. VPW's emphasis is on him and what he did. At least that's my take on it.
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JustThinking
Y'all have this all wrong!
MOG is "Molester of girls." See kids, initials are always explained right there on the bus, in the context or they've been abused before. But I'm glad you can't see it in the original.
JT
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outandabout
At some Way event, CM had a small meeting with potential Corps applicants. I recall him saying, "If you don't believe Dr. Wierwille is the Man of God of the World, we don't want you."
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Oakspear
One is that some of the stories in the initial segments are of the "why would he make that up?" variety. He tells stories on himself, like when he allegedly gave the sermon on the evils of alcohol, he came across pretty badly, and how the Korean (?) missionary suggested that he go straight to the bible to uncover the abundant life. It's like when somebody tells you that they went to high school with some obscure actor or musician, rather than a famous one, you figure it's so inconsequential, it must be the truth. He eases into the self-aggrandizing stories little by little.
Another is that he starts off by actually reading what's written and pointing out contradictions between what he reads and what mainline denominations believe. He builds trust and then gradually starts slipping in dubious Greek definitions and made up sources and lost documents. He does this so gradually that you barely notice that it's happening. Contrast this with Martindale's WayAP class, where he's screaming about the Trinity and abortion before you break for celery sticks and bad cofee.
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waysider
You guys got celery sticks??
I think I was short changed!.
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JustThinking
There was NOTHING until the end. And at that point, it was so late we all wanted to get out of there pronto. Especially parents on a school night. Three hours of that c##p! Ugh! What was I thinking!!!
JT
Oak,
I think you're dead on. It fits the whole process. Give you everything in Pffle and you're a slave by the AC. Slave and slave driver, if you became a corpse.
JT
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