also, my son told me he wanted to rewind back to two years ago.....
life's lessons are so difficult and to watch someone you love more than life go through them is -- oh, man
but i think taking responsibility and dealing with consequences and all that stuff is a good part of life
i think with the way ministry (from my experience) was all about SHAME and hurt me almost beyond repair -- but i'm still okay -- and my kid is awesome -- thankyou god
also, my son told me he wanted to rewind back to two years ago.....
life's lessons are so difficult and to watch someone you love more than life go through them is -- oh, man
but i think taking responsibility and dealing with consequences and all that stuff is a good part of life
i think with the way ministry (from my experience) was all about SHAME and hurt me almost beyond repair -- but i'm still okay -- and my kid is awesome -- thankyou god
Thanks Exie,
Your words are encouraging. I know what you mean by being hurt almost beyond repair. I'm glad you are ok and your posts have probably helped a lot of people.
It shocked me when I first got thrown out how nice people were.
Clearly, this was a trick of the devil to try and knock me even further off course. Their kindness and soft words were just a lure.
I was very very suspicious of soft-spoken, reasonable, helpful people.
Even now, I have found occasionally that with people who "matter" in some way, and in particular, a close friend (very kind) - some things they say to me can sometimes make me freeze, send chills up my spine, provoke an unreasonably strong or frightened reaction from me.
Less so now in the work situation, which is very supportive.
I'm wary of church leaders that I don't know well.
But never (thankfully) is it a problem at church, where sometimes I deliberately turn up late - because I can! - and nobody says anything but "Welcome!" and means it.
Hope your daughter sorts out her problems, 100%, and that this is a lesson in life that she's able to learn in an encouraging and supportive environment.
I find that the wayfers are typically representative of your average redneck bigot. Of course it is covered up well, but dig down underneath just a little and it comes out. Normal mainstream members of society just don't think like this.
This week was very difficult for our family. Our teenage daughter got into some pretty bad trouble at school. It brought heart breaking consequences to a good girl who made some bad choices, costing her things she had worked very hard for.
My main emotion has been sorrow for my daughter. It's a tough life lesson I know she will learn and bounce back from-but it's hard for us to see the pain she's in. She is deeply remorseful and wishes she could "rewind" to a week ago.
I had to go to the school to drop off something the other day. I ran into the main teacher involved in the situation. My stomach clenched into knots as I awaited the thrashing I thought was comming.
He walked me outside to my car and was so matter of fact about what had happened. He even related how he had done something similar when he was a teenager. He said how everyone involved wants her back in her activities next year and cares for her. They hope she can put it behind her. I actually felt healed after talking to him. (I know that expression might make some of you gag, but none the less- I really did feel healed)
Friends at school have made sure to have lunch with my daughter and everyone seems to be rooting for her.
I realized later that I had been expecting us to be treated as if we had been labeled MARK AND AVOID.
Anyone else find themselves surprised when there isn't an over reaction to something you or your kids have done? When people actually empathize with you?
Yeah, I definitely still have that end of the world thinking from the Way at times. They actually discouraged empathy. Pretty sick, imo.
The people outside of TWI are the majority... being in "the ministry" involves such a small minority of attitudes and behaviors. It is actually more normal that people WOULD be reasonable than not, especially in the context of a school where the vast majority of people who work in schools do so because they actually WANT to HELP kids. Imagine that.
As I see it, problem is that the abusive behavior inside TWI is so prevalent that it seems to becomes the expectation that the "natural" response of any authority figure would be "shoot first, then ask abusive questions later." Said abusive questions are designed primarily to squeeze information that will surely be used against you in their kangaroo "courts" of legalistic BS.
A good friend of mine is a HS principal. So often when I see him he's been "the guy" who has had his work day filled with handling situations like yours. He frequently feels saddened by the consequences he's often forced by situations to hand out to children who've made mistakes under his care. He even goes so far as to lift kids in prayer at our church functions. Works himself to exhaustion trying to help.
My daughter is currently a HS teacher. She often calls me and laments about how much she wants her students to do well, etc.
Truth be told, I'm more surprised when people AREN'T reasonable. The unreasonable ones are the minority. Once again. topics like this one illustrate the damage done by the small minded, wannabe's in TWi who passed themselves off as "leaders." Even outside of the church, (maybe ESPECIALLY those outside of the church) most people who are leaders are actually pretty reasonable.
I think sometimes we have the expectation of being treated badly because we were used to being treated badly. It somehow became the "norm" for us.
I, too, have discovered the most kindest, warm, accepting, and loving people in the places I would have LEAST expected it to come from. It has repeatedly blown my mind......
One of the things that made people "unreasonable" while in TWI was the tendency to magnify every small detail into an earth-shaking event and evidence of possession, weakness or homosexuality. For most people small details were just that: Small. Details.
great discussion! being "out in the cold, cruel world" is not what the way international said it was going to be at all. it was for awhile because being in the way international crippled me so badly that interacting in any normal manner with people outside of the way international was pretty much impossible, but then life does have a way of going on with or without me and i could either learn to go on with life or stand still and throw way international temper tantrums and curl into way a international psychotic ball of way international paralyzing paranoia about "seed boys" and "being out from under the umbrella" and all that way international jargon designed to steal, kill and destroy every last chance a person has of existing in a sane state in a world that really is far, far better than anything the way international had to offer. i chose the latter, thank you very much, and now i am happy as a clam and am making friends and finding joy where the way international left only false "family" built on snitching and a$$ kissing for leadership and fear. out here away from the way international, nobody's looking into your life that closely, nobody cares to, either, because everybody pretty much gets it that life has hard places and everybody needs a friend. i remember one guy that used to freak out totally when that title song from "cheers" used to come on, you know the that goes "Making your way in the world today Takes everything you've got; Taking a break from all your worries Sure would help a lot. Wouldn't you like to get away? Sometimes you want to go Where everybody knows your name, And they're always glad you came; You want to be where you can see, Our troubles are all the same; You want to be where everybody knows your name." he said it "advertises the old bird's imposter for true fellowship with believers in twigs" and he wouldn't allow anybody in his twig to watch cheers because of it. that freaked me out for a long time and when i told my therapist that i was afraid of going to bars because of what that guy said, she pointed out to me that the song didn't have anything to do with bars, but with simple human interaction with people that liked each other and gave each other a breather now and then, so what that guy said had done for me was to rob me of my ability to allow myself to be in situations where i could relax and be with people that liked me and wanted me around and would give me some breathing space. so it goes along with what what's being said here and it all shows how far from christ the way international is and demands its followers to be.
great discussion! being "out in the cold, cruel world" is not what the way international said it was going to be at all. it was for awhile because being in the way international crippled me so badly that interacting in any normal manner with people outside of the way international was pretty much impossible, but then life does have a way of going on with or without me and i could either learn to go on with life or stand still and throw way international temper tantrums and curl into way a international psychotic ball of way international paralyzing paranoia about "seed boys" and "being out from under the umbrella" and all that way international jargon designed to steal, kill and destroy every last chance a person has of existing in a sane state in a world that really is far, far better than anything the way international had to offer. i chose the latter, thank you very much, and now i am happy as a clam and am making friends and finding joy where the way international left only false "family" built on snitching and a$$ kissing for leadership and fear. out here away from the way international, nobody's looking into your life that closely, nobody cares to, either, because everybody pretty much gets it that life has hard places and everybody needs a friend. i remember one guy that used to freak out totally when that title song from "cheers" used to come on, you know the that goes "Making your way in the world today Takes everything you've got; Taking a break from all your worries Sure would help a lot. Wouldn't you like to get away? Sometimes you want to go Where everybody knows your name, And they're always glad you came; You want to be where you can see, Our troubles are all the same; You want to be where everybody knows your name." he said it "advertises the old bird's imposter for true fellowship with believers in twigs" and he wouldn't allow anybody in his twig to watch cheers because of it. that freaked me out for a long time and when i told my therapist that i was afraid of going to bars because of what that guy said, she pointed out to me that the song didn't have anything to do with bars, but with simple human interaction with people that liked each other and gave each other a breather now and then, so what that guy said had done for me was to rob me of my ability to allow myself to be in situations where i could relax and be with people that liked me and wanted me around and would give me some breathing space. so it goes along with what what's being said here and it all shows how far from christ the way international is and demands its followers to be.
Excellent post brainfixed. They stole so much joy from people by over spiritualizing simple things like TV shows. He would have probably really been freaked out by me. When my Mom died, the only thing that would bring me comfort was The Golden Girls. Sophia reminded me of my Mother and Blanche, Dorothy and Rose reminded me of her friends. I was able to laugh.
The believers tried to bring me some comfort but there was so much intensity in twi-they were not able to cheer me up like that show did.
I have a follow up to share that you may find amusing.
Like I posted, the people involved were very kind and supportive. It really did help and my daughter has been able to put most of it behind her.
However, there was one exception, sort of.
After my daughter got into trouble, one of the consequences was she wasn't allowed to be in the final big tournaments. She lost her spot on the team. She was devastated and I didn't want to say anything at work, I was feeling protective of her.
The day the tournaments started, a few of my coworkers were wondering what teams were playing. I was asked if my daughter was playing that day and I said no, which was true. I did not elaborate.
No one persued it any further with me. But this one woman over heard someone asking me so she came over and said "are you sure your daughter isn't playing today?" I relplied, yes I was sure.
But she wouldn't drop it. She then said "Well what teams are playing today?" I said I didn't know (which I really didn't because I no longer kept the schedule).
She kept staring at me with this skeptical look on her face. I just kept working.
Several times that day, she would come over and ask someone near me if they had heard how "our Tiger girls were doing." She would also say things like "I can't wait to find out the scores, I'm so proud of our Tiger girls." She would glance at me to see if I was reacting.
The thing is, this woman does not have children in school and has never been interested before as far as I know. But, she's always been a busy body.
It was killing her, not knowing what was going on. It was like she was stalking me and I kept ignoring her. As it went on, i couldn't stop cracking up. It was just so ridiculous, it started to seem really funny to me.
The next day she tried a new approach "We just don't talk anymore. Let's catch up. What's new?" I got out of that conversation. ASAP.
So anyway, overall things are getting better for my daughter and I think she will come back stronger and wiser.
Thanks for all the posts, your kind words and encouragement were much appreciated.
i think with the way ministry (from my experience) was all about SHAME and hurt me almost beyond repair -- but i'm still okay -- and my kid is awesome -- thankyou god
I can empathize. I feel they've messed me up as far as ever getting involve with another religion. AS I've put in another post: Why would God take someone who's sincerely seeking the truth and lay that pile of crap on them?
We can write it off as freedom of will, but then, at least for me we're committing the same sin the Ministry did when they accused all the failures in your life to your believing. You did what you were supposed to do and landed on your face. Why?
I mean, as outlined in PF4L. its true or its false. If it contnues to fail its obviously false.
I read somewhere, the degree we feel depression is related to how much we're following reality. The way taught us to ignore reality (Damn the torpedos full steam ahead!!!) Then when we were sunk they refused to accept their veiw of reality failed.
It shocked me when I first got thrown out how nice people were.
When I left The Cult, I spent many years running into various religious people and asking them where I went wrong.
The unfortunate thing is most want to give pat answers and they're not used to running into someone who's as familiar with the bible as we are.
When I was in Florida, I was in the library and ran into this person readingThe Purpose Driven Life We struck up a conversation and I told him some of my experiences with The Cult. He let loose on me in the library and continued the dressing down outside. I wouldn't have minded it, I mean I was raised in a family where yelling was the normal means of communication (God knows what we would have done to communicate a fire or some other emergency), but it was in public. So here I am with this raving lunatic that's supposed to be a Christian, calling me everything but a believer.
This was about the time I started realizing it wasn't me, it was them.
I mean, Thomas Jefferson said, questrion everything, even your belief in God, for surely God prefers sincere questioning over blind obedience (paraphrased)
So much for seek and you'll find, knock and it'll be opened onto you.
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excathedra
i'm so glad you found empathy which i think should be "normal"
tell your daughter i'm rooting for her as well
i have had very similar situations regarding myself and my teenager
people are just not as crazy as wayfers -- they're really quite wonderful
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excathedra
also, my son told me he wanted to rewind back to two years ago.....
life's lessons are so difficult and to watch someone you love more than life go through them is -- oh, man
but i think taking responsibility and dealing with consequences and all that stuff is a good part of life
i think with the way ministry (from my experience) was all about SHAME and hurt me almost beyond repair -- but i'm still okay -- and my kid is awesome -- thankyou god
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100% Free
Thanks Exie,
Your words are encouraging. I know what you mean by being hurt almost beyond repair. I'm glad you are ok and your posts have probably helped a lot of people.
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Watered Garden
I've been out since 1996 and I still am waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm especially nervous around womens' groups at church.
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Twinky
It shocked me when I first got thrown out how nice people were.
Clearly, this was a trick of the devil to try and knock me even further off course. Their kindness and soft words were just a lure.
I was very very suspicious of soft-spoken, reasonable, helpful people.
Even now, I have found occasionally that with people who "matter" in some way, and in particular, a close friend (very kind) - some things they say to me can sometimes make me freeze, send chills up my spine, provoke an unreasonably strong or frightened reaction from me.
Less so now in the work situation, which is very supportive.
I'm wary of church leaders that I don't know well.
But never (thankfully) is it a problem at church, where sometimes I deliberately turn up late - because I can! - and nobody says anything but "Welcome!" and means it.
Hope your daughter sorts out her problems, 100%, and that this is a lesson in life that she's able to learn in an encouraging and supportive environment.
Sounds like a lesson you're learning, too.
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excathedra
dear 100% i am just praying so much for your heartache and your teenager's -- it sounds like you and your family and daughter are wonderful
it does get better -- for me at least -- and it's been a long hellish hard road
much love and kind thoughs,
e
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chockfull
I find that the wayfers are typically representative of your average redneck bigot. Of course it is covered up well, but dig down underneath just a little and it comes out. Normal mainstream members of society just don't think like this.
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FreeFall
Yeah, I definitely still have that end of the world thinking from the Way at times. They actually discouraged empathy. Pretty sick, imo.
-FreeFall
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100% Free
Thanks everyone for the kind words and encouragment. It really helps.
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HCW
The people outside of TWI are the majority... being in "the ministry" involves such a small minority of attitudes and behaviors. It is actually more normal that people WOULD be reasonable than not, especially in the context of a school where the vast majority of people who work in schools do so because they actually WANT to HELP kids. Imagine that.
As I see it, problem is that the abusive behavior inside TWI is so prevalent that it seems to becomes the expectation that the "natural" response of any authority figure would be "shoot first, then ask abusive questions later." Said abusive questions are designed primarily to squeeze information that will surely be used against you in their kangaroo "courts" of legalistic BS.
A good friend of mine is a HS principal. So often when I see him he's been "the guy" who has had his work day filled with handling situations like yours. He frequently feels saddened by the consequences he's often forced by situations to hand out to children who've made mistakes under his care. He even goes so far as to lift kids in prayer at our church functions. Works himself to exhaustion trying to help.
My daughter is currently a HS teacher. She often calls me and laments about how much she wants her students to do well, etc.
Truth be told, I'm more surprised when people AREN'T reasonable. The unreasonable ones are the minority. Once again. topics like this one illustrate the damage done by the small minded, wannabe's in TWi who passed themselves off as "leaders." Even outside of the church, (maybe ESPECIALLY those outside of the church) most people who are leaders are actually pretty reasonable.
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newlife
I think sometimes we have the expectation of being treated badly because we were used to being treated badly. It somehow became the "norm" for us.
I, too, have discovered the most kindest, warm, accepting, and loving people in the places I would have LEAST expected it to come from. It has repeatedly blown my mind......
I accept it, and try to return it to others......
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Broken Arrow
.
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100% Free
Thanks Broken Arrow, I appreciate your kind words. You're right. There are things out there that help, it has dawned on me slowly.
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Oakspear
One of the things that made people "unreasonable" while in TWI was the tendency to magnify every small detail into an earth-shaking event and evidence of possession, weakness or homosexuality. For most people small details were just that: Small. Details.
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outintexas
Indeed. If something went wrong in your life, instead of helping you, they would "reprove" you for letting it happen.
It took me a while to realize that in life, bad stuff happens. You deal with it and move on that much wiser.
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excathedra
hellow HCW and hugs
and i agree with you a lot and also the above posters
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brainfixed
great discussion! being "out in the cold, cruel world" is not what the way international said it was going to be at all. it was for awhile because being in the way international crippled me so badly that interacting in any normal manner with people outside of the way international was pretty much impossible, but then life does have a way of going on with or without me and i could either learn to go on with life or stand still and throw way international temper tantrums and curl into way a international psychotic ball of way international paralyzing paranoia about "seed boys" and "being out from under the umbrella" and all that way international jargon designed to steal, kill and destroy every last chance a person has of existing in a sane state in a world that really is far, far better than anything the way international had to offer. i chose the latter, thank you very much, and now i am happy as a clam and am making friends and finding joy where the way international left only false "family" built on snitching and a$$ kissing for leadership and fear. out here away from the way international, nobody's looking into your life that closely, nobody cares to, either, because everybody pretty much gets it that life has hard places and everybody needs a friend. i remember one guy that used to freak out totally when that title song from "cheers" used to come on, you know the that goes "Making your way in the world today Takes everything you've got; Taking a break from all your worries Sure would help a lot. Wouldn't you like to get away? Sometimes you want to go Where everybody knows your name, And they're always glad you came; You want to be where you can see, Our troubles are all the same; You want to be where everybody knows your name." he said it "advertises the old bird's imposter for true fellowship with believers in twigs" and he wouldn't allow anybody in his twig to watch cheers because of it. that freaked me out for a long time and when i told my therapist that i was afraid of going to bars because of what that guy said, she pointed out to me that the song didn't have anything to do with bars, but with simple human interaction with people that liked each other and gave each other a breather now and then, so what that guy said had done for me was to rob me of my ability to allow myself to be in situations where i could relax and be with people that liked me and wanted me around and would give me some breathing space. so it goes along with what what's being said here and it all shows how far from christ the way international is and demands its followers to be.
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100% Free
Excellent post brainfixed. They stole so much joy from people by over spiritualizing simple things like TV shows. He would have probably really been freaked out by me. When my Mom died, the only thing that would bring me comfort was The Golden Girls. Sophia reminded me of my Mother and Blanche, Dorothy and Rose reminded me of her friends. I was able to laugh.
The believers tried to bring me some comfort but there was so much intensity in twi-they were not able to cheer me up like that show did.
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100% Free
Hi Everyone,
I have a follow up to share that you may find amusing.
Like I posted, the people involved were very kind and supportive. It really did help and my daughter has been able to put most of it behind her.
However, there was one exception, sort of.
After my daughter got into trouble, one of the consequences was she wasn't allowed to be in the final big tournaments. She lost her spot on the team. She was devastated and I didn't want to say anything at work, I was feeling protective of her.
The day the tournaments started, a few of my coworkers were wondering what teams were playing. I was asked if my daughter was playing that day and I said no, which was true. I did not elaborate.
No one persued it any further with me. But this one woman over heard someone asking me so she came over and said "are you sure your daughter isn't playing today?" I relplied, yes I was sure.
But she wouldn't drop it. She then said "Well what teams are playing today?" I said I didn't know (which I really didn't because I no longer kept the schedule).
She kept staring at me with this skeptical look on her face. I just kept working.
Several times that day, she would come over and ask someone near me if they had heard how "our Tiger girls were doing." She would also say things like "I can't wait to find out the scores, I'm so proud of our Tiger girls." She would glance at me to see if I was reacting.
The thing is, this woman does not have children in school and has never been interested before as far as I know. But, she's always been a busy body.
It was killing her, not knowing what was going on. It was like she was stalking me and I kept ignoring her. As it went on, i couldn't stop cracking up. It was just so ridiculous, it started to seem really funny to me.
The next day she tried a new approach "We just don't talk anymore. Let's catch up. What's new?" I got out of that conversation. ASAP.
So anyway, overall things are getting better for my daughter and I think she will come back stronger and wiser.
Thanks for all the posts, your kind words and encouragement were much appreciated.
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Twinky
100%, that woman is desperate for information. Sad. Probably has no real friends.
Good for you for keeping that door to your own life and your daughter's, firmly closed.
I wish you both well, and that your daughter will realize in this carefully controlled environment some lessons that'll set her up well in adult life.
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So_crates
I can empathize. I feel they've messed me up as far as ever getting involve with another religion. AS I've put in another post: Why would God take someone who's sincerely seeking the truth and lay that pile of crap on them?
We can write it off as freedom of will, but then, at least for me we're committing the same sin the Ministry did when they accused all the failures in your life to your believing. You did what you were supposed to do and landed on your face. Why?
I mean, as outlined in PF4L. its true or its false. If it contnues to fail its obviously false.
I read somewhere, the degree we feel depression is related to how much we're following reality. The way taught us to ignore reality (Damn the torpedos full steam ahead!!!) Then when we were sunk they refused to accept their veiw of reality failed.
SoCrates
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So_crates
When I left The Cult, I spent many years running into various religious people and asking them where I went wrong.
The unfortunate thing is most want to give pat answers and they're not used to running into someone who's as familiar with the bible as we are.
When I was in Florida, I was in the library and ran into this person readingThe Purpose Driven Life We struck up a conversation and I told him some of my experiences with The Cult. He let loose on me in the library and continued the dressing down outside. I wouldn't have minded it, I mean I was raised in a family where yelling was the normal means of communication (God knows what we would have done to communicate a fire or some other emergency), but it was in public. So here I am with this raving lunatic that's supposed to be a Christian, calling me everything but a believer.
This was about the time I started realizing it wasn't me, it was them.
I mean, Thomas Jefferson said, questrion everything, even your belief in God, for surely God prefers sincere questioning over blind obedience (paraphrased)
So much for seek and you'll find, knock and it'll be opened onto you.
SoCrates
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