What's kind of interesting about this is you can see VPW's MO. That statement of course has zero level of accuracy from a logical perspective. However, from a perspective of motivating people to do hitchhiking that already trust you, there is no higher value. This is VPW hyping an aspect of the program.
The pattern is that VPW used all sorts of minute Biblical investigation logic in PFAL to hook people. Of course there were numerous errors, documented well by John Juedes, highlighted by his own research team who noted the many liberties he took with original languages. But the point of PFAL was indoctrination. Hours upon hours of this content piled upon the poor unsuspecting young person with idealogical values. It's information overload - all the "4 Crucified", "Peter's Denials", "What Day did JC Die?", etc. "Paul's Thorn in the Flesh". What's the purpose of all those minutae teachings? To get the indoctrinee to question traditional scripture interpretation. To get them to think that all their previous teachers really didn't know the Bible, really didn't study the Bible. Thus, instead of trusting them, you trust VP. All of this intermixed with the "love bombing" tactic of the twigs/fellowships, where they really turn up the niceness to the new people to get them through "the class". They are not riding the new people, making them turn in schedules, harassing them to witness like JW's, violating personal boundaries with so-called "counseling" sessions - they are "love bombing" them, or what they term "undershepherding". The term "undershepherding" in and of itself is one of the only tender, merciful, loving topics found in TWI. There are no "spiritual overseers" in "undershepherding", no "commitment" teachings, etc. It's all niceties, the front of the "love bombing".
Then, once a person is "hooked", and now views all other Christianity as inferior, not up to par with Biblical studies, not even able to put together physical facts about Jesus life from the Bible so therefore completely unable to put together the spiritual significance, now the hype train begins. It's all about the next program, the next level of commitment to the organization, your WOW / Way Disciple, your Corps, your position and climbing the ladder.
With the hype train, that's why people will believe they can learn as much from God hitchhiking as studying Genesis. Or why there is a spiritual significance to Rosalie taking her sailboat out on Lake St. Mary's, or Craig's sports analogies and dancing in tights.
I mean sure, there is an aspect of learning to practically apply scriptures that can be inherent in most physical activities in life. Sure, in your personal Christian walk you can "ask God" and be open to learning things in whatever situation or routine you are in.
But these people take advantage of that, and it is so convenient for them. See, rather than having to pay someone to transport students between Ohio and New Mexico or Colorado, they can just make them hitchhike. But you didn't see VPW "learning more hitchhiking than studying Genesis" himself, did you? No, he flew his planes, or drove his motorcoach that get's 2 miles to the gallon with paid staff as his personal servant. They are a bunch of hypocrites, I tell you.
Did ole' saint vic just make this stuff up as he went? Or was he moved by the manifestation of Drambuie?
Honestly, I can't understand why hitchhiking and LEAD were so important to him, there had to be a motivation behind that program. I am guessing it wasn't because it was in the best interests of the people participating. After the first dangerous incident most people would have rethought the whole thing. Well, most people would not send others hitchhiking to rock climbing...but you know what I mean.
In answer to your question, I think much of what he said was to cover his own ....self. I listened to him yesterday for a few seconds and he was yelling about natural man....actually he was yelling about his critics. Implying they couldn't receive the things of God.
Many of his critics were Christians.
I do remember agreeing when he spoke of his critics and my outrage on his behalf...it was so slick.
With the hype train, that's why people will believe they can learn as much from God hitchhiking as studying Genesis. Or why there is a spiritual significance to Rosalie taking her sailboat out on Lake St. Mary's, or Craig's sports analogies and dancing in tights.
I mean sure, there is an aspect of learning to practically apply scriptures that can be inherent in most physical activities in life. Sure, in your personal Christian walk you can "ask God" and be open to learning things in whatever situation or routine you are in.
But these people take advantage of that, and it is so convenient for them. See, rather than having to pay someone to transport students between Ohio and New Mexico or Colorado, they can just make them hitchhike. But you didn't see VPW "learning more hitchhiking than studying Genesis" himself, did you? No, he flew his planes, or drove his motorcoach that get's 2 miles to the gallon with paid staff as his personal servant. They are a bunch of hypocrites, I tell you.
With vpw, there were 2-3 things that motivate all the "decisions that make no sense."
Whenever it's obvious logic didn't drive a decision, look at 2-3 things to see why they were done.
1) Does this method save money?
2) Does this method cement loyalty?
3) Does this method facilitate vpw using women for his lusts?
1) vpw always paid for the best for himself. Fly COACH? No, First Class or his OWN PLANE.
Eat what everyone ate? No, PRIVATE COOK. Live in a small space? No, lavish quarters,
and a mobile home for all the comforts of home when traveling.
But, of course, a double-standard for everyone else.
They ate disgusting foods in insufficient amounts after performing physical labor all day.
He saved lots of money on their foods, and got manual labor out of them-
and got them to PAY for working!
They lived in essentially large closets- enough for a long weekend, but living like that's
not acceptable in developed countries. But it saved money.
Whenever he moved people, it was by bus, or for free if he could manage it.
So, HITCH-HIKING, which is FREE for twi.
Free in terms of MONEY. If would occasionally cost them PEOPLE- but people were DISPOSABLE.
And when the people were DISPOSED, they were sent home- on a BUS. Even though most of them
were emotional wrecks and could not handle a bus ride ALONE. Small wonder some of them
were lost for days or NEVER MADE IT HOME and committed suicide instead.
But hey, that didn't cost him any money- he didn't pay for their mental recovery or funeral.
Oh-and climbing rocks is also free. Insufficient amounts of preparation were made for the
climbs many times- but they saved lots of money. Oh, some people were crippled, lost toes
to freezing cold, etc, but that didn't cost twi anything...
Finally, we have had LOTS of incidents with people at "Root locales" who needed immediate
medical attention. In incident after incident, there was NOTHING prepared for emergencies.
Lots of people together for long periods of time, and not even someone on-site trained in
emergency medical procedures? ONE nurse, ONE paramedic, ONE EMT, that would go a long way
in addressing emergencies when they happened. Ever go to a freaking grammar school or
a SKATING RINK where they didn't have a trained medical person on staff?
But, of course, even one additional staffer costs money...
2) Sometimes the most senseless things were done to prove loyalty. Take people who were not
at the peak of health or older, and shove them up a cliff also. This was more to demonstrate
they'd do senseless things if vpw required it. Lots of things were about cementing loyalty.
Groups of corps, once isolated from home, were NOW told they had made a lifelong commitment
as bond-slaves to twi and to do whatever they said- although this was phrased more diplomatically.
(And they paid twi for the privilege of that program, and twi would never have to pay a cent
for any orders- these people were expected to cover all expenses THEMSELVES. twi was an efficient
money-making operation. And still is- fools still pay twi for lots of orders and cover all
expenses out-of-pocket.) Corps were whisked away for a weekend and exposed to indoctrination
sessions, supposedly so they could handle attempts at deprogramming. lcm himself was chosen
to succeed vpw, according to vpw, because he never questioned vpw's orders. (With all the
more qualified candidates, vpw chose entirely based on who was most loyal to him, not who
was best-suited for twi. That's why twi has continued with horrible choices as top leaders,
lcm, rfr....)
3) Lots of little things on campus set things up so vpw could select women, target them,
then victimize them. Corps candidates were required to submit an autobiography. If women
mentioned a past that included an abuse incident (experts have testified such women are
easier victims for future abuse), then vpw separated out their files. From those, he eliminated
all women with tough husbands, all women with strong family connections in twi, and all
women with self-confidence or hints of independence. Then he contrived (with assistants
among his top staff like the Moneyhands and Gear) to arrange for one of these women to meet
him privately in some place with a bed set up. (vpw had an office with something set up,
and a mobile home office with a bed, and so on. Why does one man need so many little private
places with lots of beds? Everyone else lives in a closet....) Then he would try to get
them to drink alcohol, and lay on a detailed rap excusing alcohol use, sex outside of marriage,
and so on. In some cases, he contrived to have someone interrupt if it didn't seem to be
working, in other cases, he drugged the women and did things to them when they were unconscious.
We've had women testify to all of these-including women who saw vpw try this on them while
holding their autobiography in his hand.
So, ask those three questions whenever trying to figure out why vpw did anything.
Nice expo WW. When you strip away all the non-essential information, propoganda, BS, I agree with you - those base motives really explain it all. And this motivation did not end with VPW - LCM, RFR all operate/d in the exact same fashion.
1) save money
2) cement / prove loyalty to a person (not even the org)
1) vpw always paid for the best for himself. Fly COACH? No, First Class or his OWN PLANE.
No Wordwolf, you've got it all wrong! Ambassador One was a ministry asset, it was OUR plane we were told. Wierwille just got the USE of it. It wasn't HIS plane, you know. I imagine if any of us had asked, we could have used it ourselves for, say, camping, or whatever. I was told it was OUR plane. When I lived in Idaho, I thought it would have been cool if they would send Ambassador One to pick some of us up to go to the Rock. I mean, it WAS our plane, right? I suppose though we would never have learned as much about believing if we had done that.
I suppose though we would never have learned as much about believing if we had done that.
Oh, I don't know...had Wierwille really been the person he pretended to be perhaps he would have sent the plane around to help folks out. But as it is he is exposed as a fraud....consequently, we quit believing he was the man of God for our day and time. Seems we learned all we needed to about believing.
Oh, I don't know...had Wierwille really been the person he pretended to be perhaps he would have sent the plane around to help folks out. But as it is he is exposed as a fraud....consequently, we quit believing he was the man of God for our day and time. Seems we learned all we needed to about believing.
Not sure how many there really are of "we".......those who see wierwille as a fraud.
Offshoots everywhere STILL hold to the wierwille mystique and doctrine. Geer praises him.... Lynn praises him..... CFF praises him...... dozens of others!! Wierwille was subtle enough to NEVER get caught, or imprisoned. He went to his grave and his enablers and handlers want the control/money to keep flowing.
How many really have CONNECTED THE DOTS OF THE INDOCTRINATION?
Not sure how many there really are of "we".......those who see wierwille as a fraud.
Offshoots everywhere STILL hold to the wierwille mystique and doctrine. Geer praises him.... Lynn praises him..... CFF praises him...... dozens of others!! Wierwille was subtle enough to NEVER get caught, or imprisoned. He went to his grave and his enablers and handlers want the control/money to keep flowing.
How many really have CONNECTED THE DOTS OF THE INDOCTRINATION?
Very few.
I've been running across people who may still think VP was correct in his teaching, but that he was full of himself in some other areas. It's hard to say, but people may be waking up. I think more people couldn't care less anymore.
I wish that were true. More and more, I keep seeing his praises being sung on facebook. People are quoting him, word for word, as though they don't even realize they are parroting him.
I wish that were true. More and more, I keep seeing his praises being sung on facebook. People are quoting him, word for word, as though they don't even realize they are parroting him.
You need to be more like me and only hang with people that agree with your line of thinking. Then the world starts making much more sense.
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OldSkool
So....would this mean that there is as much learning in scrambling eggs as there is in studying Genesis, providing I used a little believing?
With crack-pot garbage like this no wonder Craig and Rosie have systematically pulled most of Vic's ramblings.
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chockfull
What's kind of interesting about this is you can see VPW's MO. That statement of course has zero level of accuracy from a logical perspective. However, from a perspective of motivating people to do hitchhiking that already trust you, there is no higher value. This is VPW hyping an aspect of the program.
The pattern is that VPW used all sorts of minute Biblical investigation logic in PFAL to hook people. Of course there were numerous errors, documented well by John Juedes, highlighted by his own research team who noted the many liberties he took with original languages. But the point of PFAL was indoctrination. Hours upon hours of this content piled upon the poor unsuspecting young person with idealogical values. It's information overload - all the "4 Crucified", "Peter's Denials", "What Day did JC Die?", etc. "Paul's Thorn in the Flesh". What's the purpose of all those minutae teachings? To get the indoctrinee to question traditional scripture interpretation. To get them to think that all their previous teachers really didn't know the Bible, really didn't study the Bible. Thus, instead of trusting them, you trust VP. All of this intermixed with the "love bombing" tactic of the twigs/fellowships, where they really turn up the niceness to the new people to get them through "the class". They are not riding the new people, making them turn in schedules, harassing them to witness like JW's, violating personal boundaries with so-called "counseling" sessions - they are "love bombing" them, or what they term "undershepherding". The term "undershepherding" in and of itself is one of the only tender, merciful, loving topics found in TWI. There are no "spiritual overseers" in "undershepherding", no "commitment" teachings, etc. It's all niceties, the front of the "love bombing".
Then, once a person is "hooked", and now views all other Christianity as inferior, not up to par with Biblical studies, not even able to put together physical facts about Jesus life from the Bible so therefore completely unable to put together the spiritual significance, now the hype train begins. It's all about the next program, the next level of commitment to the organization, your WOW / Way Disciple, your Corps, your position and climbing the ladder.
With the hype train, that's why people will believe they can learn as much from God hitchhiking as studying Genesis. Or why there is a spiritual significance to Rosalie taking her sailboat out on Lake St. Mary's, or Craig's sports analogies and dancing in tights.
I mean sure, there is an aspect of learning to practically apply scriptures that can be inherent in most physical activities in life. Sure, in your personal Christian walk you can "ask God" and be open to learning things in whatever situation or routine you are in.
But these people take advantage of that, and it is so convenient for them. See, rather than having to pay someone to transport students between Ohio and New Mexico or Colorado, they can just make them hitchhike. But you didn't see VPW "learning more hitchhiking than studying Genesis" himself, did you? No, he flew his planes, or drove his motorcoach that get's 2 miles to the gallon with paid staff as his personal servant. They are a bunch of hypocrites, I tell you.
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chockfull
double post strikes again.
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OldSkool
Well said, Chock.
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geisha779
Honestly, I can't understand why hitchhiking and LEAD were so important to him, there had to be a motivation behind that program. I am guessing it wasn't because it was in the best interests of the people participating. After the first dangerous incident most people would have rethought the whole thing. Well, most people would not send others hitchhiking to rock climbing...but you know what I mean.
In answer to your question, I think much of what he said was to cover his own ....self. I listened to him yesterday for a few seconds and he was yelling about natural man....actually he was yelling about his critics. Implying they couldn't receive the things of God.
Many of his critics were Christians.
I do remember agreeing when he spoke of his critics and my outrage on his behalf...it was so slick.
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WordWolf
With vpw, there were 2-3 things that motivate all the "decisions that make no sense."
Whenever it's obvious logic didn't drive a decision, look at 2-3 things to see why they were done.
1) Does this method save money?
2) Does this method cement loyalty?
3) Does this method facilitate vpw using women for his lusts?
1) vpw always paid for the best for himself. Fly COACH? No, First Class or his OWN PLANE.
Eat what everyone ate? No, PRIVATE COOK. Live in a small space? No, lavish quarters,
and a mobile home for all the comforts of home when traveling.
But, of course, a double-standard for everyone else.
They ate disgusting foods in insufficient amounts after performing physical labor all day.
He saved lots of money on their foods, and got manual labor out of them-
and got them to PAY for working!
They lived in essentially large closets- enough for a long weekend, but living like that's
not acceptable in developed countries. But it saved money.
Whenever he moved people, it was by bus, or for free if he could manage it.
So, HITCH-HIKING, which is FREE for twi.
Free in terms of MONEY. If would occasionally cost them PEOPLE- but people were DISPOSABLE.
And when the people were DISPOSED, they were sent home- on a BUS. Even though most of them
were emotional wrecks and could not handle a bus ride ALONE. Small wonder some of them
were lost for days or NEVER MADE IT HOME and committed suicide instead.
But hey, that didn't cost him any money- he didn't pay for their mental recovery or funeral.
Oh-and climbing rocks is also free. Insufficient amounts of preparation were made for the
climbs many times- but they saved lots of money. Oh, some people were crippled, lost toes
to freezing cold, etc, but that didn't cost twi anything...
Finally, we have had LOTS of incidents with people at "Root locales" who needed immediate
medical attention. In incident after incident, there was NOTHING prepared for emergencies.
Lots of people together for long periods of time, and not even someone on-site trained in
emergency medical procedures? ONE nurse, ONE paramedic, ONE EMT, that would go a long way
in addressing emergencies when they happened. Ever go to a freaking grammar school or
a SKATING RINK where they didn't have a trained medical person on staff?
But, of course, even one additional staffer costs money...
2) Sometimes the most senseless things were done to prove loyalty. Take people who were not
at the peak of health or older, and shove them up a cliff also. This was more to demonstrate
they'd do senseless things if vpw required it. Lots of things were about cementing loyalty.
Groups of corps, once isolated from home, were NOW told they had made a lifelong commitment
as bond-slaves to twi and to do whatever they said- although this was phrased more diplomatically.
(And they paid twi for the privilege of that program, and twi would never have to pay a cent
for any orders- these people were expected to cover all expenses THEMSELVES. twi was an efficient
money-making operation. And still is- fools still pay twi for lots of orders and cover all
expenses out-of-pocket.) Corps were whisked away for a weekend and exposed to indoctrination
sessions, supposedly so they could handle attempts at deprogramming. lcm himself was chosen
to succeed vpw, according to vpw, because he never questioned vpw's orders. (With all the
more qualified candidates, vpw chose entirely based on who was most loyal to him, not who
was best-suited for twi. That's why twi has continued with horrible choices as top leaders,
lcm, rfr....)
3) Lots of little things on campus set things up so vpw could select women, target them,
then victimize them. Corps candidates were required to submit an autobiography. If women
mentioned a past that included an abuse incident (experts have testified such women are
easier victims for future abuse), then vpw separated out their files. From those, he eliminated
all women with tough husbands, all women with strong family connections in twi, and all
women with self-confidence or hints of independence. Then he contrived (with assistants
among his top staff like the Moneyhands and Gear) to arrange for one of these women to meet
him privately in some place with a bed set up. (vpw had an office with something set up,
and a mobile home office with a bed, and so on. Why does one man need so many little private
places with lots of beds? Everyone else lives in a closet....) Then he would try to get
them to drink alcohol, and lay on a detailed rap excusing alcohol use, sex outside of marriage,
and so on. In some cases, he contrived to have someone interrupt if it didn't seem to be
working, in other cases, he drugged the women and did things to them when they were unconscious.
We've had women testify to all of these-including women who saw vpw try this on them while
holding their autobiography in his hand.
So, ask those three questions whenever trying to figure out why vpw did anything.
They answer most of the lingering questions.
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OldSkool
Wow...thanks, WW. I got an education out of your post.
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chockfull
Nice expo WW. When you strip away all the non-essential information, propoganda, BS, I agree with you - those base motives really explain it all. And this motivation did not end with VPW - LCM, RFR all operate/d in the exact same fashion.
1) save money
2) cement / prove loyalty to a person (not even the org)
3) Personal lusts, including the lust for power.
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Broken Arrow
No Wordwolf, you've got it all wrong! Ambassador One was a ministry asset, it was OUR plane we were told. Wierwille just got the USE of it. It wasn't HIS plane, you know. I imagine if any of us had asked, we could have used it ourselves for, say, camping, or whatever. I was told it was OUR plane. When I lived in Idaho, I thought it would have been cool if they would send Ambassador One to pick some of us up to go to the Rock. I mean, it WAS our plane, right? I suppose though we would never have learned as much about believing if we had done that.
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OldSkool
Oh, I don't know...had Wierwille really been the person he pretended to be perhaps he would have sent the plane around to help folks out. But as it is he is exposed as a fraud....consequently, we quit believing he was the man of God for our day and time. Seems we learned all we needed to about believing.
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skyrider
Not sure how many there really are of "we".......those who see wierwille as a fraud.
Offshoots everywhere STILL hold to the wierwille mystique and doctrine. Geer praises him.... Lynn praises him..... CFF praises him...... dozens of others!! Wierwille was subtle enough to NEVER get caught, or imprisoned. He went to his grave and his enablers and handlers want the control/money to keep flowing.
How many really have CONNECTED THE DOTS OF THE INDOCTRINATION?
Very few.
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Broken Arrow
I've been running across people who may still think VP was correct in his teaching, but that he was full of himself in some other areas. It's hard to say, but people may be waking up. I think more people couldn't care less anymore.
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waysider
I wish that were true. More and more, I keep seeing his praises being sung on facebook. People are quoting him, word for word, as though they don't even realize they are parroting him.
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Broken Arrow
You need to be more like me and only hang with people that agree with your line of thinking. Then the world starts making much more sense.
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waysider
Yeah. Likemindedness has been grossly under-rated.
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