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Who do you love?

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17 hours ago, Rocky said:

Nope. Just reflecting on the words you wrote. I can say that the words you wrote seem to be geared more toward telling others what to do than to demonstrate that that's how you live your life.

It's not really of question of telling others what to do or how I live my life. I just meant to point out what God says in the Bible. I and everybody else makes up their own mind as to whether or not God is right about what he says.

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7 hours ago, rrobs said:

It's not really of question of telling others what to do or how I live my life. I just meant to point out what God says in the Bible. I and everybody else makes up their own mind as to whether or not God is right about what he says.

Do you even listen to yourself?

Point out what God says? To whom? For what purpose?

Are you even capable of self-reflection, self-examination or recognition of why you do any given thing? (Don't answer that out loud, it's a rhetorical question)

Can you even recognize the difference between posting it in the context of "This is what God tells me to do. This (giving examples) is how I attempt to fulfill this charge," as opposed to "This is what God tells people (you) to do?"

Note, SIX rhetorical questions. Not telling you what the answers should be...

Edited by Rocky
punctuation and clarification
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As always, forum discussions are flat, at most two-dimensional and VERY imperfect in communicating depth of ideas. Perhaps one step closer to providing some depth, youtube videos can be poignant and might be a tad more effective in getting a point across. Please enjoy this brief clip with a soliloquy by the late Robin Williams. I think it's from the movie Good Will Hunting.
 

 

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What a great movie and what a great scene!

 

Thanks for that clip, Rocky !

 

I am ashamed to say it reminds me of my former life when I thought I had all the answers and would dole them out with the cold clinical efficiency of a Pez dispenser .

 

That scene from Good Will Hunting resonates with me so much more now than when I first saw it - because it’s like the older, more real-world experiences me talking to the younger know-it-all me that lived in my own little idealistic world.

 

I’m fascinated by how Twinky’s posts kind of gives an illustration of how one situation plays out in real life... sometimes there’s things, situations, relationships, etc. you can’t fix, or may not have all the answers to, or maybe you have to seek help from others...but you’re still involved IN it! You’re invested in it...it’s life in the real world...

 

maybe my 2 cents on this thread about who do you love - is this: I love my family and friends - even when it’s tough - even when we’re acting ugly to each other...nobody needs to tell me I should love them or how to love them...it comes naturally...sometimes love is expressed as forgiveness...how my wife and I might express that after an argument or fight is quite simple really - - one of us will say to the other “thanks for putting up with me”.

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1 minute ago, T-Bone said:

What a great movie and what a great scene!

 

Thanks for that clip, Rocky !

 

I am ashamed to say it reminds me of my former life when I thought I had all the answers and would dole them out with the cold clinical efficiency of a Pez dispenser .

 

That scene from Good Will Hunting resonates with me so much more now than when I first saw it - because it’s like the older, more real-world experiences me talking to the younger know-it-all me that lived in my own little idealistic world.

 

I’m fascinated by how Twinky’s posts kind of gives an illustration of how one situation plays out in real life... sometimes there’s things, situations, relationships, etc. you can’t fix, or may not have all the answers to, or maybe you have to seek help from others...but you’re still involved IN it! You’re invested in it...it’s life in the real world...

 

maybe my 2 cents on this thread about who do you love - is this: I love my family and friends - even when it’s tough - even when we’re acting ugly to each other...nobody needs to tell me I should love them or how to love them...it comes naturally...sometimes love is expressed as forgiveness...how my wife and I might express that after an argument or fight is quite simple really - - one of us will say to the other “thanks for putting up with me”.

T-Bone, I think your post should be framed, and put on the kitchen table, and read every morning.  I too love my family, in good times, and those unbearable times, when I want to cut our family ties.  But they have had to put up with my S$$t for years; I am far from being an Angel.  I love my family; we drive each others nuts at times, but we are still family.  People come and go, but family is forever.

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3 hours ago, Rocky said:

Do you even listen to yourself?

Point out what God says? To whom? For what purpose?

Are you even capable of self-reflection, self-examination or recognition of why you do any given thing? (Don't answer that out loud, it's a rhetorical question)

Can you even recognize the difference between posting it in the context of "This is what God tells me to do. This (giving examples) is how I attempt to fulfill this charge," as opposed to "This is what God tells people (you) to do."

Sounds all along like you've been telling me what to do. You might ask yourself those same questions regarding self-awareness. I'm good with my answers.

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2 hours ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

T-Bone, I think your post should be framed, and put on the kitchen table, and read every morning.  (SNIP)

Grace, do you realize what would happen if I did that? I would have to practice what I preach...uh uh...no sister, that's where I draw the line...I've got principles ya know  :biglaugh: 

just kidding...thanks for your kind words, Grace

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1 minute ago, T-Bone said:

Grace, do you realize what would happen if I did that? I would have to practice what I preach...uh uh...no sister, that's where I draw the line...I've got principles ya know  :biglaugh: 

just kidding...thanks for your kind words, Grace

T-Bone, you make me laugh!!  No problem!

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3 hours ago, T-Bone said:

What a great movie and what a great scene!

 

Thanks for that clip, Rocky !

 

I am ashamed to say it reminds me of my former life when I thought I had all the answers and would dole them out with the cold clinical efficiency of a Pez dispenser .

 

That scene from Good Will Hunting resonates with me so much more now than when I first saw it - because it’s like the older, more real-world experiences me talking to the younger know-it-all me that lived in my own little idealistic world.

 

I’m fascinated by how Twinky’s posts kind of gives an illustration of how one situation plays out in real life... sometimes there’s things, situations, relationships, etc. you can’t fix, or may not have all the answers to, or maybe you have to seek help from others...but you’re still involved IN it! You’re invested in it...it’s life in the real world...

 

maybe my 2 cents on this thread about who do you love - is this: I love my family and friends - even when it’s tough - even when we’re acting ugly to each other...nobody needs to tell me I should love them or how to love them...it comes naturally...sometimes love is expressed as forgiveness...how my wife and I might express that after an argument or fight is quite simple really - - one of us will say to the other “thanks for putting up with me”.

We all were wet behind the ears as young adults. If you overcame it, then there's nothing to be ashamed of. :drink:

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3 hours ago, rrobs said:

Sounds all along like you've been telling me what to do. You might ask yourself those same questions regarding self-awareness. I'm good with my answers.

Asking rhetorical questions is the opposite/anti-thesis of telling you what to do.

It is more fairly described as presenting you with the opportunity to tell yourself what you want to do.

Why are you so defensive?

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17 hours ago, Rocky said:

Asking rhetorical questions is the opposite/anti-thesis of telling you what to do.

It is more fairly described as presenting you with the opportunity to tell yourself what you want to do.

Why are you so defensive?

That's good...you "presented me with an opportunity." LMAO! Too bad I'm so defensive I can't take advantage of it. You have it all figured out. Good for you.

This is getting real boring. Too predictable. In the future, if I post again your are free to not read it so as not to offend your sensibilities. That's the best advice I can give.

Edited by rrobs
typo

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17 hours ago, Rocky said:

Asking rhetorical questions is the opposite/anti-thesis of telling you what to do.

It is more fairly described as presenting you with the opportunity to tell yourself what you want to do.

Why are you so defensive?

YOU MUST READ AND BELIEVE ALL I SAY!

 

Edited by rrobs
typo

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1 hour ago, rrobs said:

That's good...you "presented me with an opportunity." LMAO! Too bad I'm so defensive I can't take advantage of it. You have it all figured out. Good for you.

This is getting real boring. Too predictable. In the future, if I post again your are free to not read it so as not to offend your sensibilities. That's the best advice I can give.

The key expression is "tell YOURSELF" not "opportunity." But that's okay... regular readers here are probably by now inured to how you respond to insights presented.

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I find it most interesting that rrobs posts something about being loving and getting on and loving the unlovable (paraphrase).  I posted something very personal and directly on point; an initial post and a follow-up one.  Other people have commented, and one kind poster has PM'd me.

I know rrobs has had the opportunity to see it, because he has posted a couple of things after that.  What has he said, or done?  Just plain IGNORED IT and thus IGNORED ME.

How very "loving" of him.

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21 hours ago, Twinky said:

I find it most interesting that rrobs posts something about being loving and getting on and loving the unlovable (paraphrase).  I posted something very personal and directly on point; an initial post and a follow-up one.  Other people have commented, and one kind poster has PM'd me.

I know rrobs has had the opportunity to see it, because he has posted a couple of things after that.  What has he said, or done?  Just plain IGNORED IT and thus IGNORED ME.

How very "loving" of him.

Honestly, I have no idea what post you are talking about. Didn't mean to offend you in any case.

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1 hour ago, rrobs said:

Honestly, I have no idea what post you are talking about. Didn't mean to offend you in any case.

The second reply to your original post in this thread.

Later, following up to a response made by GVC, Twinky said,

It's much more deeply seated than that, Grace. 

Sis has some psychological problems, and I am the unwitting focus for these.  It is absolutely nothing to do with me.    She has some sort of anger management issues (I believe) and I am a "safe" focus for these, where she dare not express them to the person(s) concerned.  I have sought counselling/reconciliation with the aid of a totally independent minister associate, my Mum's minister, whom I hardly know (my sister would know her much better) - it was a disaster and the minister was shocked at the violence of sis's litany of issues.

I believe it is a spiritual issue.  I (and others) pray for her, and for the other people caught up in this.  It causes much deep hurt within family and friends.  But there is nothing to be done until she herself recognises that she has a problem that needs to be addressed in some way.

She is a nice caring  (but controlling) person to everyone else and if anyone met her outside of any context that involves me, they would probably like her.  Meet her in any context that has a connection to me, and they would get the cold shoulder (at best).

 

To bring this back to the context of this thread, she is loved, treated well and kindly, but every effort is turned back.  It is rebuffed, and worse, seen as some effort to manipulate her or control her life in some way.  It is hard to love someone like that, but I do and nonetheless would do whatever I could to help her and would never do anything to harm her. 

Did not the Lord seek us out when we were totally unlovable, rejecting, and vile?  Does he not welcome us back with open arms and complete forgiveness?  Does he not hanker after reconciliation?  As soon as we are ready, we are embraced in his love. 

And that is my deep desire, with my sister - and for all others that are lost in their worlds of hatred, misery, violence, addiction, or whatever their problem is.

Edited by Rocky

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Thank you, Rocky.

Looks like rrobs doesn't bother to read responses.  He could easily have seen those posts.  Not like this is a long thread; this is only page two.

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5 hours ago, rrobs said:

Honestly, I have no idea what post you are talking about. Didn't mean to offend you in any case.

To love... could you please (rrobs) expound on what you believe that entails, what it means?

Does empathy and compassion have any place in the definition from your perspective? If so, please expound.

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5 hours ago, Rocky said:

To love... could you please (rrobs) expound on what you believe that entails, what it means?

Does empathy and compassion have any place in the definition from your perspective? If so, please expound.

Why do you ask me to say something that you will not believe anyway?  You want me to take (waste) the time to "expound" no less. You've not once agreed with anything I've said (maybe a tacit agreement or two, but not much). I say I didn't mean to hurt anybody and you don't believe that either. You're mind is made up about who I am and I doubt anything I say will change that. That's fine. I'm not complaining, offended, or hurt, but it certainly doesn't motivate me to try to carry on anything resembling a discussion. You guys are bullies, plain and simple. Bullies never bothered me. In fact, in school I was the anti-bully and helped the kids who were bullied.

Edited by rrobs
typo

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23 minutes ago, rrobs said:

Why do you ask me to say something that you will not believe anyway?  You want me to take (waste) the time to "expound" no less. You've not once agreed with anything I've said (maybe a tacit agreement or two, but not much). I say I didn't mean to hurt anybody and you don't believe that either. You're mind is made up about who I am and I doubt anything I say will change that. That's fine. I'm not complaining, offended, or hurt, but it certainly doesn't motivate me to try to carry on anything resembling a discussion. You guys are bullies, plain and simple. Bullies never bothered me. In fact, in school I was the anti-bully and helped the kids who were bullied.

Bullies? Give me a break. Would you rather I just pronounce a judgment that you can simply deny? Why would you care if I believed you or not? At least you could put it out there in your own words and let it speak for itself.

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On 7/22/2017 at 7:07 PM, rrobs said:

1 Cor 13:13,

And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Faith heals (Matt 9:22, Acts 3:16, Acts 14:9, et. al.), sins forgiven (Matt 9:2), hearts purified (Acts 15:9),  moves mountains (Matt 17:20), it justifies (Rom 3:26), and much, much more. Bottom line; faith is a wonderful thing to have. It enables all born again believers to receive into manifestation all the  things God has made available to them.

Hope is pretty good too. Let’s face it, things don’t always go the way we’d like them to go. Life can be cruel indeed, despite our best efforts to believe God. But if you have the hope of Christ’s return and his setting up the new heavens and new earth, then those days are fewer and less intense. This world is not fair, nor will it ever be fair. Sometimes, terrible things happen that you don’t deserve. The reality; it can’t be helped in this world. So looking ahead gives comfort and peace. So hope, along with faith, is a very good thing God gave us in his word.

But as good as faith and hope are, according to 1 Cor 13:13, charity (agape) is the greatest. What makes is it that is greater than faith and hope? That is the subject of the first 12 verses of 1 Corinthians 13, and is worth a read.

Here is the crux of the matter;

1 Jn 4:10-11: "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another."

Does this mean you should love even those brothers who disagree with your doctrine? Absolutely. “One another” is pretty simple. That is who God exhorts you to love. There are no conditions attached in these verses.

The standard for that?

Col 3:13: "Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye."

What did Christ forgive you of? Anything less than the next guy? Have you, who have been wronged, never wrong somebody else? We all do the same things in the flesh (Rom 2:1). 

It’s hard to do with some believers, but God clearly wants his children to love and forgive each other. No point in trying to come up with reasons to not love this brother or that brother. It’s patently against God’s will. Better to not ask questions, just love and forgive.


 

All right.  That there is the original post/ and I've read purt near every response to it and about it in this entire thread.  I might've missed one or two, but suffice it to say - - I have the "jist" of what  this all talking about.

rrobs  -- you're quoting scripture.  Nothing wrong with that - - but then (imo) you add your own  "commentary/ preaching/ etc." mandating that we (and supposedly all of human kind) have to think like you do.  I could go to any Baptist/ Catholic/ Pentecostal/ Mormon/ Presbyterian/ JW congregation/  etc./ etc./ etc./ church and gotten the exact same message from "the pulpit" saying "GO THOU AND BELIEVE LIKE US ".   In my job, I have to deal with a LOT OF detrimental things that happen, both physically and mentally.  Some can be forgiven outright, and others have consequences that need to be dealt with forcefully.  I Am of the opinion that you are failing to see the "forceful" side  of forgiveness, such as is mandated by scripture.

 

Edited by dmiller
Hit "enter" too soon, before finishing.

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3 hours ago, rrobs said:

Why do you ask me to say something that you will not believe anyway?  You want me to take (waste) the time to "expound" no less. You've not once agreed with anything I've said (maybe a tacit agreement or two, but not much). I say I didn't mean to hurt anybody and you don't believe that either. You're mind is made up about who I am and I doubt anything I say will change that. That's fine. I'm not complaining, offended, or hurt, but it certainly doesn't motivate me to try to carry on anything resembling a discussion. You guys are bullies, plain and simple. Bullies never bothered me. In fact, in school I was the anti-bully and helped the kids who were bullied.

Btw, aren't you prejudging? I invited you to prevent readers of this thread from doing that to you. If you make your case, in your own words, answering those questions, what would there be to be afraid of? Doesn't love cast out fear?

Where did you come up with that I don't believe you when you said you didn't mean to hurt anyone? I never said any such thing.

Perhaps the thread title, "who do you love?" might have been more poignant changing it to, "how does one love?" 

Edited by Rocky

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I am coming to the conclusion that rrobs may have Asperger's syndrome.  Clearly intelligent, well able to function in a mechanical way (after all, he was a pilot) - but not able to comprehend the meaning behind the words.  Asperger's people take things at face value; literally; black and white; that's it.  Excellent at some tasks, logical, decisive.  But lacking, as Rocky remarks, empathy and compassion.  Asperger's people can learn a little of what goes on behind the words, but they don't comprehend it.

There's more to life than that.  Words encapsulate what goes on in the heart.  "Love" as such isn't literal, isn't quantifiable or measurable, and isn't mechanical.  Nor is "forgiveness."  If these are any of those "mechanical" things, it's not love and it's not forgiveness. 

 

An alternative to rrobs having Asperger's is that he is simply a Waybot, the sort of person that spouts the scriptures but doesn't properly consider who he's talking to and what their needs might be, but simply talks right over them.  These people are like records or tape machines.  They aren't really interested in what the person they are talking to has actually said, don't pay attention to responses, and they don't "draw out" from whomever they are talking to what is really going on, what the problem really is.  Sadly, Waybots don't even notice when responses cease.  Rather, this seems to make them spout even more scripture of increasing irrelevance to the person they are addressing.

I don't know whether Waybot-ness is learned behaviour or whether it patterns onto something in the Waybot's own personality.  Whatever... they still miss the point that they are dealing with people and people's issues.  And thus, (despite probably being well-meaning) they fail to be good ministers of the gospel.

 

I prefer to think of rrobs as the former.  The latter thought is too horrible to entertain.

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20 minutes ago, Twinky said:

I am coming to the conclusion that rrobs may have Asperger's syndrome.  Clearly intelligent, well able to function in a mechanical way (after all, he was a pilot) - but not able to comprehend the meaning behind the words.  Asperger's people take things at face value; literally; black and white; that's it.  Excellent at some tasks, logical, decisive.  But lacking, as Rocky remarks, empathy and compassion.  Asperger's people can learn a little of what goes on behind the words, but they don't comprehend it.

There's more to life than that.  Words encapsulate what goes on in the heart.  "Love" as such isn't literal, isn't quantifiable or measurable, and isn't mechanical.  Nor is "forgiveness."  If these are any of those "mechanical" things, it's not love and it's not forgiveness. 

 

An alternative to rrobs having Asperger's is that he is simply a Waybot, the sort of person that spouts the scriptures but doesn't properly consider who he's talking to and what their needs might be, but simply talks right over them.  These people are like records or tape machines.  They aren't really interested in what the person they are talking to has actually said, don't pay attention to responses, and they don't "draw out" from whomever they are talking to what is really going on, what the problem really is.  Sadly, Waybots don't even notice when responses cease.  Rather, this seems to make them spout even more scripture of increasing irrelevance to the person they are addressing.

I don't know whether Waybot-ness is learned behaviour or whether it patterns onto something in the Waybot's own personality.  Whatever... they still miss the point that they are dealing with people and people's issues.  And thus, (despite probably being well-meaning) they fail to be good ministers of the gospel.

 

I prefer to think of rrobs as the former.  The latter thought is too horrible to entertain.

Stinky, you may be right.

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