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10 hours ago, Rocky said:



Kewl mahn! Btw, I dig "The Obstacle is the way." I never gave any thought to Stoic philosophy until this summer... then I read a book that made a lot of sense... titled, The Obstacle is the way (by Ryan Holiday). Cool book. :beer:

Nice! Yes, and the journals of Marcus Aurelius - Roman emperor, and a Stoic who wrote his thoughts down. I've read he probably didn't expect it to be read 100's of years later, but it's a great read, kind of Ecclesiastes-style in parts, other parts sort of a "don't forget to buy eggs today" tone. But great observational thought. He wrote in the Koine Greek, which is the same as what was used in Bible translations. I encountered snippets of his work used in the exercises in a greek class I took years ago. It was nice to broaden my own, mmm, context, I wanted to clarify what I knew about using it in study. I didn't enjoy it enough to keep at it but it was fun as I remember, more or less. 

"Seneca" is another Stoic writer who's stuff has made it down the line, seems popular today too and there may even be a connection between he as a convert to Christianity or not, and Paul of the New Testament.

I think it's interesting too that in Acts 17 when Paul is in Athens and encounters the philosophers in the "marketplace" he addresses the people from the position of religion, and what he sees of their desire to have multiple gods, idols and icons. Philosophy is a field of ideas and thought, reasoning, reflection, observation, discussion, debate, postulation, etc. Religion is - well, I'd describe it as more the memorializing of an idea or belief into a recognizable statement, with then it's own rituals, observances and traditions that proceed logically (or maybe not so) from that. So Philosophy is a work in progress with some anchors from which one works and religion is an acceptance of something and to then give it value and access. Religion is commonly associated with recognizing the larger force(s) at work in our universe, "God" and in specific, accepted ways. Philosophy is a way of thinking and considering, and is more general and even abstract to varying degrees. IMO, anyway, that's my take. 

Paul dealt with both, but from a religious viewpoint when he addressed the over abundance of gods and deities at the Areopagus and the relative uselessness of them all being reflected in their "Unknown God". Epicurean and Stoics had asked him to clarify what he was talking about. Pauls message dealt with God as "the" Creator, and one who in their efforts they didn't know and who therefore could very well be their "Unknown God". God, a Creator, with a human plan, a destiny reflected in the resurrection of Christ from the dead. Some believed, others considered it for another day, some didn't believe. 

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24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

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My impression is that Stoicism is a philosophy that contains a great deal of - call it "godly" thought - in that when we reflect and consider our lives and their patterns, goings and comings, and are not focused solely on self and what that self wants, we are led towards seeing what Paul meant when he said to them - "From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us."

Where many Christians see this as a complete rejection of all their efforts, Paul is really leading them to his point with a very gentle hand, saying "you look, so look around you now and you see the acts of your Creator, who has reached out to you now through this Jesus Christ."

I see this stuff not as "hellenizing" our Christian doctrinal ideas and precepts with other beliefs or ideas, but more as the possible outcomes of any honest and reasonable inquiry. When anyone does that they will likely encounter some of the "truth" of life and godliness. If I were using the Bible as a standard, I'd be looking for "truth" everywhere in God's creation and celebrating it when it is there. 

I enjoyed the movie Ghost Dog because it's got this humorous linkage between old school Italian Mafia, modern American culture, and ancient Samurai / Buddhist thought, "Hollywood style". In that movie it has the line -

It is bad when one thing becomes two. One should not look for anything else in the Way of the Samurai. It is the same for anything that is called a Way. If one understands things in this manner, he should be able to hear about all ways and be more and more in accord with his own.

That's got some Stoic in it. :beer:

Anyhoo - peace n love! 

Edited by socks
Want to make a million dollars in the high tech industry? It's easy and I'll help you! First - get a million dollars. Now, jus-
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On 8/2/2019 at 1:40 AM, Rocky said:



Kewl mahn! Btw, I dig "The Obstacle is the way." I never gave any thought to Stoic philosophy until this summer... then I read a book that made a lot of sense... titled, The Obstacle is the way (by Ryan Holiday). Cool book. :beer:

I think another I learned through this is that in the Way, a lot of the doctrine was taught as inward facing stuff, things I do as a lifestyle and some things I do with others. At the same time VPW would say things like “it’s just a walk kids, you just walk”. But unless we disconnected from the programmatic mechanical nature of the lifestyle (12 keys to this, 3 steps to that, memorize this, practice that) it was extremely difficult to “just do it”. I compare it to say, having a hammer. And I learn all about that hammer, get taught about hammers, the history of it, how it’s made, the different types, and practice holding and using it, and even go out and hammer some nails in someone’s else’s project. But then if I never got up one morning and grabbed it, some nails and went out to build something and used it with my drill and saw, I wouldn’t Use it anywhere near it’s full potential. That to me is what the Way Corps lifestyle became. As long as everything was connected back to VPW, The HQters, and the program it was valid. Stepping  out of that or even producing work that USED “the principles” but didn’t lead back to VPW’s ministry was invalid. Tripped out. “Back 40 stuff”. That kept the sphere of endeavor very small. And it was nearly impossible to see that unless you broke away, which isn’t how it had to be. At all. 

I got my hammer - and the life I build can now be with and through the faith of Him who loved me, and gave himself for me without extra attachments. It’s very direct and to the point - God through Jesus Christ can be glorified in me. Not “this ministry that was the only thing that could have reached you, and which you now owe your life to and is the only thing worth telling people”. 

Point being - Stoicism is a philosophy of practical application, not only thought. The idea is "Be the changed you want to see". One of the Stoic writers put the thought forward in their day as "don't waste time arguing what a good man should be. Be one." And that's an idea that is very much the essence of Christian faith. If that's what a person would really like to do then "being" a new person with a "new life" in Christ is exactly where it goes. And that's where it resonates with me, rather than a new way of thinking or a system of tenets, it's a reflection of an attempt to encourage us to live thoughtfully and not solely for ourselves.

Edited by socks
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Posted Thursday at 01:09 PM

“Where did you get your training in what constitutes libel and how to avoid it, DWBH?

My most recent refresher session was in June.

Would you like the names and credentials of the attorneys who ran those sessions and whose job is to literally keep ME and my colleagues from printing information that might lead to defamation lawsuits?”

Edited Thursday at 01:29 PM by Raf

 

Would YOU like the names of the MA Police Cyber Division Atty. who instructed ALL we RNs at every hospital I’ve worked at here in MA, regarding the legal requirements upon our licenses, to report ANY act of SUSPECTED psychological or sexual abuse we witness ANYWHERE?? Would YOU like the credentials of the Lawyers, Nurses, and public servants who authored the MA State Nurse Practice Act which details these reporting REQUIREMENTS?? Would like the names and credentials of the physicians, lawyers, and politicians who defined the statutes making Cyberbullying/ sexual and psychological harrassment the CRIMES they are here??

I’m not a journalist. I am an ANCC Certified Registered Nurse. I provide professional healthcare delivery on the frontlines of these cases, and have for almost 30 years. I don’t give a crap about being politically correct enough to avoid sone THREAT of a lawsuit that will NEVER HAPPEN to me. I care about delivering the necessary and proper PROFESSIONAL healthcare to help the victims of abuse, not excuse their victimization by people on a website YOU or ANYONE “moderates” according to the editorial opinion of YOUR FL newspaper, and your layman’s understanding of whatever legal directives your bosses at the Sun Sentinel give you so THEY can avoid getting sued. I don’t work for your paper either.

Your unilateral and arbitrary censorship of my posts has nothing based in REALITY to do with “avoiding a lawsuit against the GSC”. It has EVERYTHING to do with YOUR personal biases and what you learned about libel and slander from some FL lawyer who was hired to keep your bosses and you outta court, NOT to tell you how to provide professional healthcare delivery to surviving victims of TWIt and offshoots’ spiritual, physical, and sexual abuse. Please tell us of ANY lawsuit, threatened or filed against the GSC because of ANYTHING I have posted here or at Waydale in the TWENTY YEARS I have been posting here. Enquiring minds want to know. Thank you.

 

Edited by DontWorryBeHappy
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3 hours ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

 

 

Posted Thursday at 01:09 PM

“Where did you get your training in what constitutes libel and how to avoid it, DWBH?

My most recent refresher session was in June.

Would you like the names and credentials of the attorneys who ran those sessions and whose job is to literally keep ME and my colleagues from printing information that might lead to defamation lawsuits?”

Edited Thursday at 01:29 PM by Raf

 

Would YOU like the names of the MA Police Cyber Division Atty. who instructed ALL we RNs at every hospital I’ve worked at here in MA, regarding the legal requirements upon our licenses, to report ANY act of SUSPECTED psychological or sexual abuse we witness ANYWHERE?? Would YOU like the credentials of the Lawyers, Nurses, and public servants who authored the MA State Nurse Practice Act which details these reporting REQUIREMENTS?? Would like the names and credentials of the physicians, lawyers, and politicians who defined the statutes making Cyberbullying/ sexual and psychological harrassment the CRIMES they are here??

I’m not a journalist. I am an ANCC Certified Registered Nurse. I provide professional healthcare delivery on the frontlines of these cases, and have for almost 30 years. I don’t give a crap about being politically correct enough to avoid sone THREAT of a lawsuit that will NEVER HAPPEN to me. I care about delivering the necessary and proper PROFESSIONAL healthcare to help the victims of abuse, not excuse their victimization by people on a website YOU or ANYONE “moderates” according to the editorial opinion of YOUR FL newspaper, and your layman’s understanding of whatever legal directives your bosses at the Sun Sentinel give you so THEY can avoid getting sued. I don’t work for your paper either.

Your unilateral and arbitrary censorship of my posts has nothing based in REALITY to do with “avoiding a lawsuit against the GSC”. It has EVERYTHING to do with YOUR personal biases and what you learned about libel and slander from some FL lawyer who was hired to keep your bosses and you outta court, NOT to tell you how to provide professional healthcare delivery to surviving victims of TWIt and offshoots’ spiritual, physical, and sexual abuse. Please tell us of ANY lawsuit, threatened or filed against the GSC because of ANYTHING I have posted here or at Waydale in the TWENTY YEARS I have been posting here. Enquiring minds want to know. Thank you.

 

Just curious there, DWBH, how recent was your last training session in the legal field, and did any of that training refer to reading into other people's motives when you have no in person contact with the people?  And are you engaged in delivering necessary and proper PROFESSIONAL healthcare to anyone by way of GSC? thank you. :love3:

Edited by Rocky
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Tell them where to find me.

Tell them EXACTLY where to find me.

And show them screen caps of the perfectly innocuous posts that made you lose your mind and accuse an innocent man of cyberstalking and abusive behavior.

If we're all lucky, oldiesman will be gracious snd not sue you for making false accusations and making him out to be a criminal.

You need to back off, DWHB.

You have been making false, unsubstantiated and inflammatory accusations for months now and we all love you so much no one wants to stand up to you. So by ALL MEANS, send my contact information to the cybercrimes division of skynet or whoever you think you're calling. I would be BEYOND HAPPY to talk to them.

Until then, follow the rules of GSC or watch us enforce them.

 

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If the rules somewhere are truly so repugnant to someone that the feel they can't post there without clashing with the moderators or breaking them, the only sensible thing to do is to post elsewhere,  and, if necessary, to make their OWN messageboard where they can A) make the rules   B) deal with any  repercussions if anything happens for any reason (technical, legal, etc)         There is no constitutional right to post on this or any other messageboard.  

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8 hours ago, WordWolf said:

If the rules somewhere are truly so repugnant to someone that the feel they can't post there without clashing with the moderators or breaking them, the only sensible thing to do is to post elsewhere,  and, if necessary, to make their OWN messageboard where they can A) make the rules   B) deal with any  repercussions if anything happens for any reason (technical, legal, etc)         There is no constitutional right to post on this or any other messageboard.  

Or Facebook or Twitter for that matter. :spy:

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Some thoughtful posts from Socks (his best ever, I think).

And then the usual spats from the usual suspects.

Kinda like sitting by a peaceful riverbank contemplating life and the joys of nature, and turning round to find a street brawl going on behind you.

 

Hardly surprising that people are put off coming here.  There are other riversides to sit beside.  Not without the occasional brawl, but these get settled quickly and don't keep festering, to distract continually.

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Twinky is right.

I was about to delete posts that did not contribute to the conversation, but given the topic of this thread, that's not really plausible. The offending posts WERE the topic. 

Thank you, though.

 

 

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So easy to judge, criticize and have a posting frenzy of aspersions and lies, when the target of the immature and disinformed personal attacks has no way to respond. How nice you finally had the “bravery” to take down the personal attacks and prepubescent ad hominem attacks upon my posts and character. Thus will never be seen and left up for days like the thinly posts, and the WordWolf whines, and the Rocky “look at me posts”. What a bunch of elementary school intellects with a free reign to bully the people they don’t like. This post will never see the GSC playpen. You people don’t like HONESTY here any more. You just want politically correct vanilla flour here. Everybody gets a trophy! LOL!

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On 7/4/2019 at 8:30 PM, pawtucket said:

...Disagreement turned into verbal battles.

I always wanted this place to be a safe haven for those that left or was in the process of leaving or was thinking of leaving. This would be a place of solace.

Lately, for some, attacking seems to be the color of the day. Why the need to attack? Why the need to call people names. My attitude has been if you are getting in vicious place, step away from the keyboard!

The internet is rampant with vicious bravery behind a wall of anonymity

I only have one word to those guilty of this, Stop! At least on this site...

 

 

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1 hour ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

How nice you finally had the “bravery” to take down the personal attacks and prepubescent ad hominem attacks upon my posts and character.

There were no posts removed.

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