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Scripture Interprets Itself


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"Scripture Interprets Itself"

Scripture = The Written Word . . . right?

According to VPW, The Written Word takes the place of The Word Made Flesh (= Jesus Christ)

I believe Jung described Jesus as a symbol of the Self.

VPW's "scripture" is actually PFAL, an extension of VPW.  The Word, The Word, Nothing But The Word.

You are to replace yourself, your SELF, with VPW.  

He will Waysplain it for you.  You don't interpret yourself, VPW does.  Because you are an extension of HIM.

 

 

 

 

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Scripture is sacred text written by humans derived from (preposition) oral tradition. Given. But (conjunction) when is it decided that these words are sacred? And who decides? And must it be ancient?

The scripture of 2 Peter is the Torah, right? Or is "Peter" talking about Paul's letters and the Gospels? 2 Peter was certainly written late enough that anything written in the 1st century might have seemed ancient to his audience...

Or was Peter talking about scripture from the Far East? Or from Sumer? Or Egypt?

PFAL became scripture to some soon after it was published.
 

Who decides?

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41 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Scripture is sacred text written by humans derived from (preposition) oral tradition. Given. But (conjunction) when is it decided that these words are sacred? And who decides? And must it be ancient?

The scripture of 2 Peter is the Torah, right? Or is "Peter" talking about Paul's letters and the Gospels? 2 Peter was certainly written late enough that anything written in the 1st century might have seemed ancient to his audience...

Or was Peter talking about scripture from the Far East? Or from Sumer? Or Egypt?

PFAL became scripture to some soon after it was published.
 

Who decides?

I think this is a few different subjects.

I want to be clear I don't want to conflate anything VPW did with how the major world religions or items like their texts came to be.

I do feel PFAL and The Bible operate (personification) differently.  PFAL is very specific to one individual, VPW.  And PFAL had to use The Bible to mask itself.

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9 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

One of the reasons believed to have caused the shrinking of the human brain over the past 3000 years is written communication.  These matters used to be memorized.  As information is written down, less brains are needed.  You can imagine how the internet will accelerate this process.

Back in the day (1990s?) I would go into a Borders bookstore and imagined it as an encyclopedia on steroids... Then there was Amazon. And of course, the interwebs. I'm not so sure it will make human brains shrink but it has made possible massively accelerated innovation

41q4UhC7eaL.jpg

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11 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Haha! No. The cognitive dissonance must be so painful for him.

Somehow, I doubt that. Denial is a very powerful emotional defense mechanism.

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1 hour ago, Rocky said:

. .  I'm not so sure it will make human brains shrink . . .

 

Just refering to the lack of selective pressure for larger brains in an evolutionary time frame.  Written communication is one of three reasons cited for this phenomenon, which had been occurring over the past few millenia.  It does not necessarily mean less intelligent or less creative . . . But different.

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Just now, Bolshevik said:

Just refering to the lack of selective pressure for larger brains in an evolutionary time frame.  Written communication is one of three reasons cited for this phenomenon, which had been occurring over the past few millenia.  It does not necessarily mean less intelligent or less creative . . . But different.

And what I presented was/is an alternative perspective. 

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Because the brain has become smaller, it's able to more efficiently use energy. If you need an analogy, just think about how you can use your phone to access information it doesn't have to store.

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25 minutes ago, waysider said:

Because the brain has become smaller, it's able to more efficiently use energy. If you need an analogy, just think about how you can use your phone to access information it doesn't have to store.

Yep.

When we say scripture we mean a written communication.  In this thread we're refering to a book.

Remember when everyone wore masks?  You couldn't see smiles or scowls.  It was harder to read people. Some folks are better than others at reading eyes for emotional cues.  Those face to face interactions were missed, I felt.

When stories are written, that's not a face to face interaction.  But ongoing experience might change how you interpret a written story.  I have  changed my views on some stories over long periods of time, because I had changed. 

VPW's idea that scripture interprets itself highlights the static nature of his being.  Scripture was supposed to be understood immediately and never change.  That's ridiculous.  I doubt he as a person changed much at all over his entire life.

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7 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Yep.

When we say scripture we mean a written communication.  In this thread we're refering to a book.

Remember when everyone wore masks?  You couldn't see smiles or scowls.  It was harder to read people. Some folks are better than others at reading eyes for emotional cues.  Those face to face interactions were missed, I felt.

When stories are written, that's not a face to face interaction.  But ongoing experience might change how you interpret a written story.  I have  changed my views on some stories over long periods of time, because I had changed. 

VPW's idea that scripture interprets itself highlights the static nature of his being.  Scripture was supposed to be understood immediately and never change.  That's ridiculous.  I doubt he as a person changed much at all over his entire life.

Yes. It's also a form of gaslighting. It's a control tactic designed to cause self doubt, because everyone is slightly wrong all the time, requiring reproof and correction. One must be "taught" how (H-O-W) scripture interprets itself rightly, otherwise it's man-made private opinion. Don't do it.... Dooon't do it!

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Yes. It's also a form of gaslighting. It's a control tactic designed to cause self doubt, because everyone is slightly wrong all the time, requiring reproof and correction. One must be "taught" how (H-O-W) scripture interprets itself rightly, otherwise it's man-made private opinion. Don't do it.... Dooon't do it!

Yep!

 

https://www.talkspace.com/blog/narcissistic-gas-lighting/

 

"When narcissistic abusers or a gaslighter feels threatened, they feel a strong need for acceptance and support. They want others to believe their retelling of events to restore their sense of control.

Gaslighting can also be the result of someone believing that their account is more accurate than yours. By convincing you to question your memory of events, they can regain that sense of superior intellect."

 

 

Quote

 

Edited by Bolshevik
I didn't see an edit . . . you must be crazy
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On 5/11/2022 at 7:34 PM, Rocky said:

Back in the day (1990s?) I would go into a Borders bookstore and imagined it as an encyclopedia on steroids... Then there was Amazon. And of course, the interwebs. I'm not so sure it will make human brains shrink but it has made possible massively accelerated innovation

41q4UhC7eaL.jpg

 

I'm going to get into jot and tittle mathematical precision nonsense.  What interprets what?

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

 

I'm going to get into jot and tittle mathematical precision nonsense.  What interprets what?

 

 

Saccades. What a cool, obscure word. 

To answer your question, words interpret themselves. But the word in NOT that. The word cat is not the actual cat @ 6:10. The words are NOT the Word.

98% of 1st century Palestine was illiterate. People must have been amazed to see someone read and write. One could persuade anyone to believe ANYTHING, if only they could get it written down and read to an audience.

Sadly, with literacy rates at an all time high, one can persuade anyone to BELIEVE anything, if only they can get it written down and read to an audience.

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Maybe "teaching The Verd like it hasn't been known since the first century" was simply due to a rise in literacy rates. VPW simply misunderstood. :biglaugh:

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Maybe "like" was being used in a vernacular sense. Like, you know what I mean?

Teaching the word, like, it hasn't been known since the first century.

 

(colloquial quotative)

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21 minutes ago, waysider said:

Maybe "like" was being used in a vernacular sense. Like, you know what I mean?

Teaching the word, like, it hasn't been known since the first century.

 

(colloquial quotative)

Possibly.  It was audible, not written.  Was that a deliberate comma or a stutter?  Still the Word wasn't it?

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Posted (edited)

Our brains detect patterns.  This article explains how Ray Kroc stole Victor Paul Wierwille's idea using pattern recognition.   (sarcasm)

 

This video explained how words come from patterns in nature our brains detect.

 

This link discusses the bottom-up or top-down origin of religion. (also a link in there about religion being literally false but metaphorically true).

 

VPW was an NPD (imo) and was motivated by what NPDs are motivated by.  He came up with nonsensical statements to fulfil his need for narcissistic supply.   His followers were victims of pattern recognition . . . reading is pattern recognition from nature repurposed.  The Written Word in WayWorld, Scripture Interpreting Itself, is a distortion of seeking real phenomena.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by Bolshevik
another error . . . . I'm seeing a pattern . . .
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Posted (edited)

Intelligence is partially measured, not only by the ability to detect patterns, but also by the ability to anticipate how the patterns will evolve. I think this might partly explain why some otherwise intelligent people were attracted to the (seemingly) unique approach TWI took toward Bible study. Just my opinion.

Edited by waysider
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2 hours ago, waysider said:

Intelligence is partially measured, not only by the ability to detect patterns, but also by the ability to anticipate how the patterns will evolve.

Yeah – I think you have something there…according to the following article:

"Humans have a tendency to see patterns everywhere. That’s important when making decisions and judgments and acquiring knowledge; we tend to be uneasy with chaos and chance (Gilovich, 1991). Unfortunately, that same tendency to see patterns in everything can lead to seeing things that don’t exist…


…in Shermer’s 2000 book How We Believe, he argues that our brains have evolved as pattern recognition machines. Our brains create meaning from patterns we see or at least think we see in nature (Shermer, 2008). Often, the patterns are real, while other times they are manifestations of chance. Pattern recognition tells us something valuable about the environment from which we can make predictions that help us with survival and reproduction. Pattern recognition is imperative to learning…


…Research studies have demonstrated that when people believe that two variables are correlated, they will see a connection even in data where they are totally unrelated. It is not unusual for clinicians to see correlations “in response patterns because they believe they are there, not because they are actually present in the pattern of responses being observed“ (Stanovich, 2007, p. 169)…


…Our pattern-detecting ability serves us well in many instances, but it also can lead to seeing something when there is nothing there. In the words of Rudolf Flesch: 

Instead of the black and-white, single-track, everyone-knows-that-this-is-due-to-that approach, get used to the idea that this is a world of multiple causes, imperfect correlations, and sheer, unpredictable chance. It is true that the scientists, with their statistics and their probabilities, have made a stab at the harnessing of chance. But they know very well that certainty is unattainable. A high degree of probability is the best we can ever get…"


End of excerpts


From: Psych Central - patterns the need for order
 

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2 hours ago, waysider said:

Intelligence is partially measured, not only by the ability to detect patterns, but also by the ability to anticipate how the patterns will evolve. I think this might partly explain why some otherwise intelligent people were attracted to the (seemingly) unique approach TWI took toward Bible study. Just my opinion.

I'm reminded of confirmation bias.  Don't think I'd quite related to validation . . . in a certain way before.

https://psychcentral.com/blog/emotionally-sensitive/2012/02/levels-of-validation#1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_validation

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4 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

"Humans have a tendency to see patterns everywhere. That’s important when making decisions and judgments and acquiring knowledge; we tend to be uneasy with chaos and chance (Gilovich, 1991). Unfortunately, that same tendency to see patterns in everything can lead to seeing things that don’t exist…

Certainly want to dissect that last sentence later

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3 hours ago, T-Bone said:

Research studies have demonstrated that when people BELIEVE that two variables are correlated, they will see a connection even in data where they are totally unrelated. It is not unusual for clinicians to see correlations “in response patterns because they BELIEVE they are there, not because they are actually present in the pattern of responses being observed“ (Stanovich, 2007, p. 169)…

Thanks for these excellent articles Bolsh and T-Bone.  Much to contemplate here.

Confirmation bias. "Habit patterns." One must be trained, programmed, indoctrinated, "taught" to BELIEVE coincidence is pattern and correlation is causal.

When one can observe freely, free from conditioning, one can see what actually is.

BELIEF is NOT required to see what is true.

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