I appreciate your kind concern. So, when I wrote about those people talking about their out of body experiences, you don't think that's real either?
When it comes to the supernatural realm, I'm long gone out there. I've experienced a lot, but I've heard a lot more and frankly, I'm jealous. Take Will, for instance, I believe every word:
I don't know if twi was heavily into these incredible (as in impossible to believe) "personal" encounters with Jesus and angels, but I do know that many of the people and ministries you've mentioned before have claimed the most ridiculous of them.
"Seek and you shall find" can also be known as bias confirmation. Would telling you to keep a skeptical approach when looking at these unprovable claims be of any use?
Haha! No, that's something Jr. High School girls used to do at pajama parties when I was a kid. The ghost of Mary Worth is supposed to appear before you in the mirror.
Check it again. Re-search the transcripts. It's there.
If it's not in the '71 or '79 transcripts, it's in another one. It may be lost or hidden. But I believe one day it we'll find it, along with those ancient manuscripts needed to prove other asserted claims.
Check it again. Re-search the transcripts. It's there.
If it's not in the '71 or '79 transcripts, it's in another one. It may be lost or hidden. But I believe one day it we'll find it, along with those ancient manuscripts needed to prove other asserted claims.
I wish you could see it in the aboriginal. It's a dandy!
Lots of people here are Christians. Lots of people are not. Oldiesman, WordWolf, Allan are believers, though they probably disagree with each other on an issue or two. Chasity, StayedTooLong and I (Raf) are atheist. We try (and often fail) to confine our skepticism to the Atheism subforum in Matters of Faith.
Just in case someone might read "Chasity" as a misspelling of Chastity and think such a person exists on GSC (like I did at first ), I now recognize you meant me. Also, Chastity would have been an unusual, though interesting, name to give oneself .
The are NO SUCH THING as devil spirits. You learned about them while in twi and this explains why you thought of one when LCM looked at you with all the pride and evil that were behind those eyes of his. Being involved with the other ministries you've mentioned only cemented your belief in demons because they are steeped in teaching about them and falsely claiming to rebuke them.
Christianity is a fear-based doctrine that ministries/religions feed off of and become rich from because of the hold this doctrine has on keeping people in line. If you want to be free of having to cope with such a mythical being as an evil spirit, start deconstructing from what the bible teaches about them. Begin with the whole concept of the fall of Lucifer and then go straight to the most inane story of the serpent with Adam and Eve in the garden whereby all mankind supposedly inherited an evil and sinful nature and Satan became the god of this world.
I sincerely hope you do.
Pardon me for including my atheistic comments on this thread in response to Joyful Soul's disconcerting post about dealing with a demonic transference between LCM and himself. If there is any interest in discussion this topic, I will start a thread in the Matters of Faith forum.
Thomas was skeptical. Because Thomas was skeptical, he was given a spiritual awareness not given to the others. The others had to believe. Thomas found out.
I began as a college atheist 45 years ago. I'm long gone. Over the edge gone. Unreachable. Forever lost.
If we ever enforce a complete atheist, anti-supernatural society, take me first, drag me around back and shoot me.
I have started a thread called "A Complete atheist, anti-supernatural society" in the Atheism, nontheism, skepticism: Questioning Faith sub forum if anyone wants to discuss the above.
Anyone who takes a position that "vpw was the greatest man of God since the apostle Paul" will find they've taken a VERY unpopular stance and will be debated. But they will be allowed to post- as will everyone who disagrees with them.
Differences of opinion, agreeing to disagree, and independent thought are not allowed at twi, and never were. So, people used to twi and ex-twi ONLY may find freedom to think unsettling. But it's an asset.
If I was inclined to be involved in a group that believed in God I would have absolutely no problem joining TWI. How can anyone claim that TWI’s doctrines are not based on the bible?
There are over 2,000 other groups who also claim their doctrines are based on the bible.
How can anyone say their Christian group, out of the over 2,000 in the world, make the claim their group is right?
Why on earth do you believe your group has the a wrap on the truth?
Then throw in all the other religions of the world, how you say your groups belief’s are the correct ones? Somehow, apparently, you have been able to wade through thousands of religions, and pickout the correct ones.
Please assist me in picking the winning lottery numbers!
You have to be honest about what you're saying, here. You're describing a completely one sided intellectual affair. If that were the case the impossibility would be real.
It's not one sided and it's not all intellectual. God had his mind on us before we put our minds on him.
Further, none of us knew all the religions when we first believed. Someone might have considered the inflection point in dating human history is based on one major religion but in the end, it was set out there and we took it.
Unapologetically, subjective experience is a big part of it.
If I was inclined to be involved in a group that believed in God I would have absolutely no problem joining TWI. How can anyone claim that TWI’s doctrines are not based on the bible?
There are over 2,000 other groups who also claim their doctrines are based on the bible.
How can anyone say their Christian group, out of the over 2,000 in the world, make the claim their group is right?
Why on earth do you believe your group has the a wrap on the truth?
Then throw in all the other religions of the world, how you say your groups belief’s are the correct ones? Somehow, apparently, you have been able to wade through thousands of religions, and pickout the correct ones.
Please assist me in picking the winning lottery numbers!
Agree. I think we'd have to try each one to understand each... and understanding only one may take up to a year or even more. I'm still trying to understand the traditional latin mass. One thing I do believe: each religion has some truth and biblical principle, and even atheism has some too, as in loving and kindness to your fellow man.
"How can anyone claim that TWI’s doctrines are not based on the bible?"
You take a doctrine of twi's, and compare it to what The Bible says. You take what they claim The Bible says and means, and compare that to what it says, and the most sensible take on the meaning.
It's the same principle you'd use to compare any doctrine or practice with any document. I'm familiar with what the U.S. Constitution says. I'm willing, at times, to discuss what the most logical interpretations are for what that says, and compare that to what any group has said. (I don't want to do that here and now, partly because it would be wildly off-topic for this thread.)
And, thank you, Joe. Somehow I imagined us all as seniors, I think it's fascinating to hear from someone recently with The Way. I'd love to hear your story, too.
Just got my call from the "Limb Coordinator", if that's what we're still saying.
Wonderful, fascinating conversation. He's 65 and he's been around his whole life...I mean, he's telling me about VPW's tangential real life relationship with the people in the recent movie, Jesus Revolution. Yep, both of us, doing a comparison of Lonnie Frisbee and VPW. Along those lines, Ted Haggard, ever heard of him? I had the opportunity to speak to him after church once.
I'm pretty much full. Gotta process. Gotta 'hear' from God. Still hope to hit the Rock and maybe now a "limb" meeting.
If you spill your story out here, Joe, I'll be listening.
A few of us haven't quite made "senior" yet. To name two, myself and Raf. (We went to the same school.) There's younger posters than us, but not many. Then again, right now there aren't many posters. (Not compared to say, 2001 AD)
A few of us haven't quite made "senior" yet. To name two, myself and Raf. (We went to the same school.) There's younger posters than us, but not many. Then again, right now there aren't many posters. (Not compared to say, 2001 AD)
Thank you. I'll just accept everybody just as they are. Right now I'm more interested in connecting with brothers and sisters in the Lord and I don't care about their stance relative to the Way.
So, if the Way is really sectarian right now, it's not going to work. If in fact they really are doing better than most, there will be grace to mingle in and out of a diversity of ministries without stepping on territorialism.
It's an important time in history. Sounds like Netanyahu may be burying himself. Sounds like Trump is finally distancing himself. Israel is divided and in disarray. With Iran's hypersonic missiles just minutes away, Israel could just FAFO.
Someone will say, THAT'S POLITICS! Yeah, but it's also necessary to say this. I look forward to a world of post Zionist Evangelicalism. Zionism more than Trinitarianism had kept me on the outer fringes.
What does that have to do with The Way? It may be one step closer to oneness realized with the rest of the body.
Someone will say, THAT'S POLITICS! Yeah, but it's also necessary to say this. I look forward to a world of post Zionist Evangelicalism. Zionism more than Trinitarianism had kept me on the outer fringes.
OK, you said it. Politics play an important part in all our lives. It's important to stay on top of world events. It's important to actively participate. It's also important to find an appropriate venue to do that. GSC is not that venue.
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Junior Corps Surviver
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with trauma, PTSD or the sting of being ripped off. I was about to agree with you until you leaned on the cult trope of "crying about decades old offenses". These offenses i
Rocky
Glad you had a good experience Joyful. For many of us here, it would take a lot more than people being friendly and joyful to overcome the darkness the organization embraced for many years.
Joe Maslow
No, thanks.
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Charity
I don't know if twi was heavily into these incredible (as in impossible to believe) "personal" encounters with Jesus and angels, but I do know that many of the people and ministries you've mentioned before have claimed the most ridiculous of them.
"Seek and you shall find" can also be known as bias confirmation. Would telling you to keep a skeptical approach when looking at these unprovable claims be of any use?
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Nathan_Jr
Check it again. Re-search the transcripts. It's there.
If it's not in the '71 or '79 transcripts, it's in another one. It may be lost or hidden. But I believe one day it we'll find it, along with those ancient manuscripts needed to prove other asserted claims.
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JoyfulSoul
I began as a college atheist 45 years ago. I'm long gone. Over the edge gone. Unreachable. Forever lost.
If we ever enforce a complete atheist, anti-supernatural society, take me first, drag me around back and shoot me.
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waysider
I wish you could see it in the aboriginal. It's a dandy!
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Charity
Just in case someone might read "Chasity" as a misspelling of Chastity and think such a person exists on GSC (like I did at first
), I now recognize you meant me. Also, Chastity would have been an unusual, though interesting, name to give oneself 
.
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Charity
Pardon me for including my atheistic comments on this thread in response to Joyful Soul's disconcerting post about dealing with a demonic transference between LCM and himself. If there is any interest in discussion this topic, I will start a thread in the Matters of Faith forum.
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Nathan_Jr
Thomas was skeptical. Because Thomas was skeptical, he was given a spiritual awareness not given to the others. The others had to believe. Thomas found out.
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Charity
I have started a thread called "A Complete atheist, anti-supernatural society" in the Atheism, nontheism, skepticism: Questioning Faith sub forum if anyone wants to discuss the above.
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WordWolf
Differences of opinion!
Differences of opinion are allowed at the GSC!
Politics are verboten.
Anyone who takes a position that "vpw was the greatest man of God since the apostle Paul" will find they've taken a VERY unpopular stance and will be debated. But they will be allowed to post- as will everyone who disagrees with them.
Differences of opinion, agreeing to disagree, and independent thought are not allowed at twi, and never were. So, people used to twi and ex-twi ONLY may find freedom to think unsettling. But it's an asset.
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Stayed Too Long
If I was inclined to be involved in a group that believed in God I would have absolutely no problem joining TWI. How can anyone claim that TWI’s doctrines are not based on the bible?
There are over 2,000 other groups who also claim their doctrines are based on the bible.
How can anyone say their Christian group, out of the over 2,000 in the world, make the claim their group is right?
Why on earth do you believe your group has the a wrap on the truth?
Then throw in all the other religions of the world, how you say your groups belief’s are the correct ones? Somehow, apparently, you have been able to wade through thousands of religions, and pickout the correct ones.
Edited by Stayed Too LongPlease assist me in picking the winning lottery numbers!
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JoyfulSoul
You have to be honest about what you're saying, here. You're describing a completely one sided intellectual affair. If that were the case the impossibility would be real.
It's not one sided and it's not all intellectual. God had his mind on us before we put our minds on him.
Further, none of us knew all the religions when we first believed. Someone might have considered the inflection point in dating human history is based on one major religion but in the end, it was set out there and we took it.
Unapologetically, subjective experience is a big part of it.
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oldiesman
Agree. I think we'd have to try each one to understand each... and understanding only one may take up to a year or even more. I'm still trying to understand the traditional latin mass. One thing I do believe: each religion has some truth and biblical principle, and even atheism has some too, as in loving and kindness to your fellow man.
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waysider
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WordWolf
"How can anyone claim that TWI’s doctrines are not based on the bible?"
You take a doctrine of twi's, and compare it to what The Bible says. You take what they claim The Bible says and means, and compare that to what it says, and the most sensible take on the meaning.
It's the same principle you'd use to compare any doctrine or practice with any document. I'm familiar with what the U.S. Constitution says. I'm willing, at times, to discuss what the most logical interpretations are for what that says, and compare that to what any group has said. (I don't want to do that here and now, partly because it would be wildly off-topic for this thread.)
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WordWolf
A few of us haven't quite made "senior" yet. To name two, myself and Raf. (We went to the same school.) There's younger posters than us, but not many. Then again, right now there aren't many posters. (Not compared to say, 2001 AD)
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JoyfulSoul
Thank you. I'll just accept everybody just as they are. Right now I'm more interested in connecting with brothers and sisters in the Lord and I don't care about their stance relative to the Way.
So, if the Way is really sectarian right now, it's not going to work. If in fact they really are doing better than most, there will be grace to mingle in and out of a diversity of ministries without stepping on territorialism.
It's an important time in history. Sounds like Netanyahu may be burying himself. Sounds like Trump is finally distancing himself. Israel is divided and in disarray. With Iran's hypersonic missiles just minutes away, Israel could just FAFO.
Someone will say, THAT'S POLITICS! Yeah, but it's also necessary to say this. I look forward to a world of post Zionist Evangelicalism. Zionism more than Trinitarianism had kept me on the outer fringes.
What does that have to do with The Way? It may be one step closer to oneness realized with the rest of the body.
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waysider
OK, you said it. Politics play an important part in all our lives. It's important to stay on top of world events. It's important to actively participate. It's also important to find an appropriate venue to do that. GSC is not that venue.
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JoyfulSoul
Waysider, do you have a junior deputy badge?
This has a theological component when getting involved in Christian Communities. Your point has been made.
Recent events portend theological shifts. It's a valid point.
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waysider
I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying this is not the place to discuss it.
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