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Miracles in TWI


JustThinking
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Uh, speaking in tongues is only "miraculous" if you believe the nonsense it's practitioners sell with it. If one believes, as I do, that SIT is simply an innate, natural ability, peculiar to those with the neccessary mental and physical equipment for language, all that's needed for a person to "manifest" is to lower their inhibitions to the point where they will do it.

Speaking gibberish is really NOT all that spectacular to someone who is not predisposed to accepting belief in the supernatural. What is it evidence of? One can't understand any of it, therefore the only convincing is done when we buy into the explanation given with it.

For an alternate explanation might I suggest:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0...9252010-7513635

Great (neccessary?) reading for all those with a penchant for cleaving to the paranormal. Of course, that's MY opinion...

geo.

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I might believe in miracles sometimes but I just don't believe that SIT is a miracle.

I believe that anyone can move there mouth and formulate a language. What twi taught I feel is a bunch of boloney.

Sorry, just my beliefs on the subject!!!!

Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!

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Lightside said:

The way never taught this:

Speak in tongues right now

Take action, you move your mouth, your tongue,

and God gives you the words, a language you do not know. gorge aar: That is a miracle, a miracle in front you you, instantly.

>>

Lightside. Speaking only for myself. I

was led into SIT long before I encountered

WOWs, Twigs, or any other agent of TWI.

I'm not here to debate the authenticity of

SIT but just to say that TWI in no way,shape,

form or fashion had a monopoly on SIT.

In fact , given that VPW plagiarized (a

reality that even the most stubborn VPW

loyalists on this board are now willing

to acknowledge), its crystal clear that VPW's "teachings" existed long before there

was a PFAL and before VPW even knew about

them.

My point is that if one considers the act

of SIT as a miracle then one cannot give

credit to TWI for this. They didn't/don't

OWN this manifestation. Never did and never

will.

[This message was edited by diazbro on December 22, 2003 at 19:25.]

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George Aar said:

People LOVE to talk about the time they prayed for so-and-so's headache or cold and then it IMMEDIATELY went away! What they're not so eager to do is DEMONSTRATE that healing ability in the here and now.

>>

Amen to that ! I heard so much TALK about

how so-and-so was delivered and how VPW

"delivered a believer" and how someone

else "cast out devil spirits" from someone

but in 6 years with TWI I could NEVER

verify any of this.

I always found it quite odd that they had "excellor" sessions for the Foundational and Intermediate classes but not for the Advanced class. Why was that ? Maybe they

were talking a load of trash and had zero clue as to how to make that work ? For a "ministry" so concerned with detail and accuracy they sure laid out vague and ambiguous information on how people were to operate , for example, discerning of spirits.

They said stuff like "Just reach up into Daddy's Cookie jar". That just tells you

how clueless they were. They didn't have the

slightest idea as to how to deal with those manifestations and also accounts for the

lack of people who could demonstrate those manifestations. No. They just made up bulls**t

stories instead.

I recall one time when I was really ill

and I wanted to be better so I figured that

I could ask my roomate , who was an alleged

spiritual heavy, to minister to me. It caught

him way off guard. Why ? I don't really know

but in general this guy was doing all the correct Way things and had the explicit

support of local leaders yet he was perplexed

when I asked him to minister to me.

So it was like so generic and full of

wayspeak that I began to wonder if there

was even an original thought in this guys'

head. When he finished up he was real dismissive and acted like he wanted to get

as far away from me as he possibly could.

Of course I still felt just as bad and regretted the whole experience.

So what I learned was that even the most "salted" couldn't do very much. Of course

the classic Way viewpoint on this would

be "your heart was hard and your believieng

wasn't up to snuff" but that was such an

overused statement. And of course when VPW

got cancer his suck up yes men lied about

it and covered it up. And later when VPW

died they didn't rail on him and cut him

down talking about his "lack of believing".

No he was judged by a different standard.

That was such crap.

TWI was an impotent ministry despite

all the potential that young, energetic

people brought to it. There was enromous

postive energy and had there been any

real power we would still be operating it

now instead of talking about the lack of it.

The problem is with TWI and its whacked leaders.

Always has been.

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steve said:

Weren't there excellor sessions in B. G. Leonard's class for the Healing and Revelation manifestations?

>>

I've heard that BGL did have practice sessions in his class but I'm not sure how that would change what they Way did or didn't do. There

was still , as far as I was concerned, a total

lack of power in this area though instead of

admitting it, TWI made up bulls**t "techniques"

such as "reach into daddy's cookie jar".

Yea. Real useful instruction wasn't it ?

People were "asking father" what shoe they

should put on first.

If someone who took the BGL class wants to

pipe up and talk about their experience with

that then thats cool but the mere fact that

BGL had practice/excellor sessions doesn't

change how ineffectual TWI was when it came

to explaining or more importantly DEMONSTRATING these manifestations.

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While Diazbro is right in that it doesn't change TWI's lack of power here, it would be interesting to hear more about BGL's work. It never occurred to me that there were no excellor sessions in the AC or for AC grads. LCM's AC tried to downplay that analogy of "daddy's cookie jar." Short version: LCM said it ended up doing more harm than good in that it's God's prerogative whether he tells us something or not.

By the way, is "excellor" a real word? Or is it another wayfer term?

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Okay, here's a personal one. It did not happen today or yesterday, but in 1982. However, it happened to ME, and I am the witness of my own miracle.

In 1982 we moved to Charleston SC and I went to work at a hospital. (Same one where the lady coded, but at a later date). I had to have a chest x-ray which to my terror was abnormal. It showed enlarged nodes in my chest. The diagnosis was either Hodgkin's disease, a form of cancer, or another potentially lethal disease called Sarcoidosis. After several tests, the doctors decided to wait six months and take another x-ray. If the nodes were stable, it was sarcoid, which can work its way into many systems of the body, destroying the lungs, nervous system, brain etc. If they were enlarging and multiplying, it was Hodgkin's. Either way my goose was cooked.

Before the second x-ray, I went to ROA 1982. I went from registration to the House of His Healing Presence. I sat down and I asked God to heal me. I told Him I would sit there until I had an answer, if it took a year. I stayed there in intense prayer for about 30 minutes, and when I left I KNEW I WAS HEALED.

In November the next x-ray was stable. The nodes had not disappeared. There were no more and the ones that were enlarged were no bigger.

I told the doctor it didn't matter, because God has never let me down, and I knew I was healed, no matter what the x-rays showed.

Next x-ray was clear and normal and has been ever since.

Was it a natural healing process? Were the first two x-rays flawed? Was it a miracle of healing from God? Take your choice.

All I know was, I had a disease and God healed it. How He took care of it was His business. My business is saying I was sick and God healed me.

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Watered Garden,

How did your doctor react? Just curious. We had a VERY similar experience and the hospital staff was mixed. Some said it had to have been a mistake and others admitted there had been a growth and it was gone. Also, do you still have the x-rays? Not to prove something but to have a great thing to share with another.

Just curious.

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Never thought to ask for the films.

He wanted to know more about healing. He was reluctant to believe, however, because he had had a patient who said God would heal her of whatever she had and she died. And there is no real answer for that question that I know of. Charleston is a real social town, who you're descending from who you're related to (or married to) where you worship, etc. I think he was concerned about losing his community prestige if he went out on THAT limb.

WG

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Hi, happy day after Christmas everyone.

I'm a kid at heart and I like hearing about these miracles. Though I have never seen one personally, either to me, or to someone I know. That was a draw for me in TWI - the miracles that VPW did, and the miracles in "TWI - Living in Love". Then I believed I didn't see miracles because I didn't believe enough.Blah, blah. TWI's requirements of doing this and doing that was a turn off. I'm not turned off by talk of miracles. TWI isn't the only place that talks about miracles, but it was the first place I heard about. (oh, a Christian Scientist did some work in my mother's home when I was growing up, and he said he had a crippled arm and God healed it). Unity Church talks of miracles in prayer and is not a high demand ministry like TWI was.

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I'll take Watered Garden's upbeat testimony any day over Geoge Arr's pessamistic outlooks..heck..if I twist an ankle or bruise myself..my first thought is " hey God please help"..can't see a down side to it George or any of you other skeptics..how dare you insult the God of Miracles..just look in a mirror if you want to see the greatest miracle of all..but if you don't want to believe it..then good for you..go wallow in your unbelief..& make the Word of God of none effect in your lives..Just can't believe the negativity of some of you..God help you when you stand before your creator!! JJ

jj

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imablvr? said:

in "TWI - Living in Love". Then I believed I didn't see miracles because I didn't believe enough.Blah, blah. TWI's requirements

>>

Ah yes. "The Way Living In Lies" Er "Love".

My favorite piece of Way fiction. It would

have been nice if I and others had seen even 1/16th of what that book described. And yes I was around in the "good ole days" and new some of those decribed in the book. It simply wasn't like that in real life.

So there is some lingering wayspeak you will hear some use in relation to this book - "heart for god" as in "so and so had such a tremendous heart for God". I've heard it zillions of times and it was typically applied to someone in an effort to protect their image - "oh well I know he might have messed up but he has such a heart for god".

This phrase has later been used to protect the image of VPW "well he did commit adultery but he had a big heart for God" . It appears to be one of the more enduring phrases from the WaySpeak catalogue.

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Okay here are some of mine. Now the most recent miracle of healing and answers to prayer were recorded in my Christmas letter thread. However, you asked for ?older miracles? before 1993. I will try and make them brief even though some of them had many other blessings attached.

Now, some of these things are answers to prayers, I don?t know how to break out the miracles from the prayer answers ? so they are clumped. We can just call them God working in my life so we do not get into a doctrinal fight. You asked for first hand so that is why they are about what I saw, prayed for, or heard?.

Recent miracles in my Christmas letter thread. Many of you were in the trenches with me as I prayed for deliverance! Thanks.

Recent ? I placed the name of a friend of mine in the ?Friend? area. I had a dream where I was told to get a hold of him now; if I wanted to contact him. I acted on it and a poster here got me the address. I wrote to him and told him how much I loved, missed and was thankful for him! I got a letter back that was wonderful. Then, he died. (This is all documented here at GS). Thank God I moved on it. His letter meant the world to me.

Before 1993 here are a few:

I was at work with this kinda odd guy. Well, one day my car would not start so I needed a ride home. I kinda asked out loud at lunch, I think it was, and the odd guy offered to take me. Well, every time I walked by him that day he would shake. I would pass him and look back and it would stop. SO WEIRD! A girl I got into PFAL worked with me and I said to her ?watch this? when I walk by him he will shake.? So, I walked by him and saw him shake but my friend did not see him shake. (I mean Joe Cocker shake). I knew not to take the ride with him. Later, I found he had been in prison for rape.

I worked on staff with Ex, and the Limb leader and others. He had not had a place booked to have a WOW conference weekend thing. He had called everywhere and was running out of places. He called us together and had us pray together for a place. While praying I saw the place. I told him exactly what it looked like including a lake. He said okay let?s call places with a lake. He found one that was open and when he went to see it ? it was exactly as I had described.

We had a girl in our fellowship that had some problems. She was a masochist. She set up mirrors and would cut herself and watch herself bleed. Well, one day she was ?missing.? We prayed to find her and during the prayer I just KNEW where she was and drove there and got her.

(It was not a usual hang out or anything, an odd place for her to be)

On the WOW field there was a girl, Janice, who came to our twig. One day, I just felt that she was condemning herself and I asked God what I could do to help her. I sat down with her and said, ?So you got yourself pregnant and you think God doesn?t love you anymore. He still adores you.? That is what the situation was.

I looked at one of my WOW?s one day and told her not to get in ANY cars that day. None. I do not care if you know them? Just please do not get in any cars. It was raining so she accepted a ride and had a criminal act committed on her.

One night after twig I was driving this guy Tommy home. I did not know where he lived and he directed me out to a field. There he began to call me ?Fish? and started to yell at me and threaten me. It was freaky and I was where nobody would hear us. So, I said, ?In the name of Jesus Christ what is your name?? He said ?Raven.? I said Tommy I know you are in there fight for yourself. It said ?Tommy is not here anymore I am Raven.? I had to rebuke him and fight in a different realm to get back to safety.

I have told this before but one night after twig I was running to the store to get more refreshments. I had just taught on ?Angels unaware?. Well, I started my car engines and it caught on fire. There had been a drought in Arkansas and the ground was VERY hard. I dropped to my knees to scratch up some dirt to throw on the flames to no avail. Out of the blue, a thin black man with a full length leather coat walked to the car. He removed his coat and threw it over the flames putting them out. He NEVER said a word. Greg and I were so excited and I invited him inside and kept saying thank you. Then, for a split second Greg and I took our eyes off of him and did a high five. And the man/angel vanished. He was at my car and then poof! No where for him to go.

When I was in DC this weirdo was screaming from across the street how he was going to kill etc. I thought who is he speaking to? He came walking across the street ?I am going to kill you b ?ch. Blaa ? blaa?

I noticed he had a broken bottle in his hand and it was up in the air like when someone thrusts it into you. Well, he was speaking to me and walked right over to me... Ut-to

I said, ?In the name of Jesus Christ put that bottle down.? (Or drop that bottle!) And he did. Then, he looked at me and said, ?Boy lady, you?ve got power.?

Praise God!!!! It was God's power!

I will stop here. These are some of my God experiences.

Dot_Matrix.gif

[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on December 29, 2003 at 9:20.]

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Dot,

Wow! Yikes! Whoopie! God is still in business today as He was then, and I just praise Him again and again!

Folks, God is the real deal! Not TWI, not any organization or man or anything else! It is GOD Almighty Who hears us and takes care of us. I wish I could share my heart bigger with all you nay-sayers. We're not talking about a man, a movement, a cult or an organization. God is so much bigger than anything we can ask or think or hope or dream!

Love y'all,

WG

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WG

God is good. Here are a few more..

I was a WOW the year we moved to a different place after six months. Well, one of our twiggers wanted to follow us. After we got settled he called and wanted to leave the other town and continue in our twig. This was a guy from a poor background and was unable to send a deposit or spend a lot. I was praying for a place in walking distance to a job and our house, but nothing was listed. Well, I am still prayerful about all of this and I see this house (close to us and to town) and think ?They are going to rent.? I figure well if I knock on the door and ask, the worst that could happen is I will be wrong. Big Deal. But if I ask and they are renting it will help Dewayne and will have been an answer from God. I knocked on the door and said ?Are you renting??

?Why, yes but we have not even made the sign yet. How did you know??

Another time I was WOW in PA. I went to a bar after work as that is where all the laid off steel workers were and our twig filled with those people. Well, nobody was there except for the bartender. We yakked for awhile then the door opened and this man came in who was very threatening. He called me all kinds of names and we a little scary. I thought I want to leave, but something told me he would follow me and I should NOT leave. So, he continued to yell about everything. There was no God. Woman were whores, etc. I kept praying for God to help me. It was tense. Then, I got a thought and did it. I said, ?Who hurt you to get you to act this way?? (or something similar) And he went off about how he lost his job and all kinds of stuff. I told him, ?God loves you.? And he said, ?God does not even know my name!? So, I prayed inwardly and said God what is his name. I had a name pop into my head and I thought, well if I am wrong I can always say ?I do not know your name but God does?? So, I went for it. I said, ?God knows your name Paul and he loves you.?

The guy softened and cried, ?How do you know my name??

I replied something like, ?God told me because HE knows your name and he loves you.?

Dot_Matrix.gif

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  • 3 years later...

I was once trapped in a mosh pit with a friend of mine and were knocked down flat when two mosh pits at a concert merged... Thought we were going to be crushed when we fell, all the wind was knocked out of us. Out of nowhere a huge bald man covered in tattoos walked (the crowd parted in front of him) up to us, picked us both up, one in each arm (we're not little girls by any way shape or form) and simply walked out of the crowd. He put us down, and said... Don't go back in there. We told him thank you, and he was gone. We didn't see him again, which was strange, because he was at least a foot taller than everyone else at the concert.

When I was in college, I had a friend who had severe asthma. She had a bronchial spasm in our dorm room. My roommate and I got her in the car and rushed to the hospital. She was blue by the time we got there. While my roommate ran to get the ER staff, I started SITing for our friend, and she suddenly took a breath! The staff arrived just a second later and got her into the ER.

I have more, but not the time to post.

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