I do not read those things a lot but it blesses me that others do
You see I do not care where people get truths and who takes creit for them
I just care that they are learning truth and thinking about God as they try to learn to be more like Christ
If it would help a person I would copy any statement, quote or etc I have and mail it to them or give it to them in person Giving only creit to God for the statement, quote, or etc
You see VPW was lead by Christ which God leads Christ to the place he got those teaching
And the person who wrote the teaching he took creit but creit show of went to God
Everybody looking for creit and trying to take a way creits
Lets just learn to live love and forget about creit
PFAL helped thousands of folks including myself. I'm thankful VP taught it; it met lots of needs. Those are the facts, as much as some like to trash it now.
This is one of the biggest conflicts I have when it comes to TWI. I think they were a terrible cult. Words cannot express how I feel about twi.
But at the same time, my mother was depressed anbd suicidal, planning her own death. Then one day there was a knock at the door. Door to door witnesses gave her a reason to live. Although I would say it was more the companionship and love bombing than PFAL that saved her life.
And the person who wrote the teaching he took creit but creit show of went to God
Everybody looking for creit and trying to take a way creits
Lets just learn to live love and forget about creit
with love Roy
===========================
Roy -- easy to say, but hard work went into the teachings that vpw plagiarized, and the original authors/workmen of the word, DO deserve the credit.
Not only did vpw get the "credit", he also got THE CASH from his lucrative business which followed from his taking other's work, and passing it off as his own. -->
I agree with oldiesman, pfal served a purpose (at one time), and I agree with you, that God gets the glory for what is in His word, but while we are "living love", it is not a bad thing to give credit, where credit is due.
To expand a bit on my MLM analogy, here's a quote from "The Skeptic's Dictionary" re:MLMs
"This is not to say there is no benefit to MLM membership. You get certain tax write-offs. You get to buy products, some of which you will be happy with. You get to go to inspirational meetings, some of which will make you feel good. You may meet new friends and you may even make a few bucks. But more than likely you will end up alienating some family and friends. You will probably end up buying more stuff than you sell. And you will learn a lot about deceiving yourself and others. You won't be allowed to tell anyone how you are really doing, for example. You will always have to think positive, even if that means lying."
That's the structure of WayWorld. It's simply an MLM that uses Bible B.S. as it's product. It could have been anything, soap, vitamins, oil additives for your car - anything. Only with Bible B.S. the Vicster correctly figured that, not only would he make a whole bunch of money, but he wouldn't have to share any of it with anybody!
Nope, no percentages going to the "downline" or incentives or consignments. In fact, you had to pay for the "privilege" of selling his crap! How cool was that (for him)?
quote:It's simply an MLM that uses Bible B.S. as it's product.
If folks thought that the bible was B.S. (or even TWI, for that matter), they wouldn't have hung around for so long -- 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years, for example. That's sure a lot of time to decide what's b.s. and what's not, wouldn't you say?
Oh, and maybe the Bible isn't B.S., but the Vickster's version of it certainly was, i.e. "The Law of Believing", "The Law of Proportional Giving" (HA!), "The Unforgiveable Sin", etc. etc....
I agree, vic's way was the ultimate pyramid scheme...the products (costs way below Amway), the workers (volunteers who received no pay/as a matter of fact they paid the way to do their work)...it's brilliant if you have no conscience. It worked so well that even now that the business has virtually dried up, they still have millions in the bank.
I own a business, I pay for the products I sell and have to pay competitive wages to people that work for me. There are constant cash flow concerns, finding competent employees who deserve a living wage etc. It is a real struggle to run an honest business with no guarantee of success...but at least I can sleep at night.
Vic really was a master at MM, not the Bible. He didn't have to master the Bible, he just stole from others who had.
PFAL helped thousands of folks including myself. I'm thankful VP taught it; it met lots of needs. Those are the facts, as much as some like to trash it now.
That wasn't my experience Oldies, therefore your experience must not be true :D-->
It doesn't matter if we turn to dust...guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight
quote: Why would anyone want to read a watered down perversion rather than the original that great of men wrote as God spoke to them?
Sounds like an entirely whole new concept to me. I was always under the impression the antagonists were accusing VPW of plagarizing other people and he copied their work exactly word for word and line by line - not that he watered it down.
Oh... Oh... Now I get it! VWP plagarized other peoples work which was already watered down, and decided he would just distill a PURER version from theirs.
Yeah... Yeah... that's the ticket... (as said by Jon Lovitz while playing the devil.)
quote:Oh... Oh... Now I get it! VWP plagarized other peoples work which was already watered down, and decided he would just distill a PURER version from theirs.
VeePee took what great men of God wrote and added his filler bull.... into it watering it down into powerless and worthless crap compared to the original.
The only words in pfal that helped people were those parts without veePee's bull.... added.......
Copyright 2004 by the author. All rights reserved. Posting may not be copied or reproduced by anyone, including employees and followers of The Way International, Inc.
He directly plagarized, word for word, in some of his writings
He took ideas and concepts that others came up with and called them his own after putting them in his own words
He mangled things that others taught because he didn't understand them (e.g. Bullinger's explanation of epil?? and his theory of why Jesus' brothers couldn't have been sons of Joseph by a previous marriage)
He came up with some stuff on his own and tried to find bible verses to back him up
He tied different concepts together in a way that was advantageous for him
It doesn't matter if we turn to dust...guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight
"PFAL helped thousands of folks including myself...it met lots of needs." -- oldiesman
I agree. But I know several extwi people who are so thanful for and in love with VPW that they still think PFAL is 99.99% truth (like i used to).
For a while i thought PFAL was 80% truth. Now I think it was 20% truth and 80% baloney, VPW's private interpretation.
PFAL was a starting point, not the end all, for my quest to follow the the true teachings of Jesus and get the eternal LIFE that Jesus came to provide for whosoever wants it. (to hell with TWI's more than abundant life hook, line and sinker).
If PFAL was so good, why does not TWI teach any of it today? WAP class contained less than 10% of the PFAL teachings (as I recall).
It is a shame that some PFAL grads still cling to every PFAL class word of VPW in spite of new light and better teaching on the subject matter.
quote:Oh, and maybe the Bible isn't B.S., but the Vickster's version of it certainly was, i.e. "The Law of Believing", "The Law of Proportional Giving" (HA!), "The Unforgiveable Sin", etc. etc....
geo.
George, I agree with you, some of PFAL is B.S. But that's not what you first said, you said "bible b.s."...
But I'm glad you still believe the bible...maybe?...
"But I'm glad you still believe the bible...maybe?..."
Uh, don't hold your breath. Sorry...
'Course on the "positive" side, I also don't believe in: Astrology, Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism, Wiccah, Islam, Sunworship, ESP, Bigfoot, Crop Circles, Mormonism, or Avacore Baldness cure.
I try not to be sucked in by any superstitious nonsense, if I can help it. Unfortunately a goodly portion of the rest of the world still likes to cling to absurd, unproveable, specious tenets of "faith", and as a result we're still suffering from the madness that such beliefs culture.
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year2027
Hi Imf777
I do not read those things a lot but it blesses me that others do
You see I do not care where people get truths and who takes creit for them
I just care that they are learning truth and thinking about God as they try to learn to be more like Christ
If it would help a person I would copy any statement, quote or etc I have and mail it to them or give it to them in person Giving only creit to God for the statement, quote, or etc
You see VPW was lead by Christ which God leads Christ to the place he got those teaching
And the person who wrote the teaching he took creit but creit show of went to God
Everybody looking for creit and trying to take a way creits
Lets just learn to live love and forget about creit
With love and peace Roy
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oldiesman
PFAL helped thousands of folks including myself. I'm thankful VP taught it; it met lots of needs. Those are the facts, as much as some like to trash it now.
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George Aar
I'm thankful for PFAL too, and Amway, and "Dare to be Great" (Oil of Mink Cosmetics).
MLMs truly are of God...
geo.
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Lightside
That was my theme song all thru the early 70's
Why? because I had no friends and wanted to die.
PFAL taught some nice Word of God I never heard before.
In the beginning, it was my new friends in the Way, including PAW of Greasespot, who helped saved my life.
BUT now, I'm movin'on, movin' on up.
I just graduated from middle school, headin' to junior high.
[This message was edited by Lightside on February 23, 2004 at 13:41.]
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Georgio Jessio
This is one of the biggest conflicts I have when it comes to TWI. I think they were a terrible cult. Words cannot express how I feel about twi.
But at the same time, my mother was depressed anbd suicidal, planning her own death. Then one day there was a knock at the door. Door to door witnesses gave her a reason to live. Although I would say it was more the companionship and love bombing than PFAL that saved her life.
Glow-ry!
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dmiller
Roy writes -- "quote"
===========================
And the person who wrote the teaching he took creit but creit show of went to God
Everybody looking for creit and trying to take a way creits
Lets just learn to live love and forget about creit
with love Roy
===========================
Roy -- easy to say, but hard work went into the teachings that vpw plagiarized, and the original authors/workmen of the word, DO deserve the credit.
Not only did vpw get the "credit", he also got THE CASH from his lucrative business which followed from his taking other's work, and passing it off as his own.
--> 
I agree with oldiesman, pfal served a purpose (at one time), and I agree with you, that God gets the glory for what is in His word, but while we are "living love", it is not a bad thing to give credit, where credit is due.
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excathedra
and speaking of "living love," let's not give credit where it's not due
:)-->
?
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George Aar
To expand a bit on my MLM analogy, here's a quote from "The Skeptic's Dictionary" re:MLMs
"This is not to say there is no benefit to MLM membership. You get certain tax write-offs. You get to buy products, some of which you will be happy with. You get to go to inspirational meetings, some of which will make you feel good. You may meet new friends and you may even make a few bucks. But more than likely you will end up alienating some family and friends. You will probably end up buying more stuff than you sell. And you will learn a lot about deceiving yourself and others. You won't be allowed to tell anyone how you are really doing, for example. You will always have to think positive, even if that means lying."
That's the structure of WayWorld. It's simply an MLM that uses Bible B.S. as it's product. It could have been anything, soap, vitamins, oil additives for your car - anything. Only with Bible B.S. the Vicster correctly figured that, not only would he make a whole bunch of money, but he wouldn't have to share any of it with anybody!
Nope, no percentages going to the "downline" or incentives or consignments. In fact, you had to pay for the "privilege" of selling his crap! How cool was that (for him)?
geo.
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dmiller
Geo -- whew!!!!! glad you cleared up the MLM thing
:)--> When I read MLM in your first post, I was thinking "Mr. Loy Martindale" 
Somehow, I could not imagine you using two such NON-SPECIFICS together!
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oldiesman
If folks thought that the bible was B.S. (or even TWI, for that matter), they wouldn't have hung around for so long -- 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years, for example. That's sure a lot of time to decide what's b.s. and what's not, wouldn't you say?
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def59
I don't know oldies,
fear and intimidation and isolation can do alot to keep someone in a group. Just ask Rocky and his mindless devotion to the Democratic Party :0
:)-->
I don't believe the Bible to be BS, but much of what I learned in TWi came with a price and I've been doing my best with God's help to unlearn it.
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George Aar
dmiller,
Sorry for the confusion, I should probably give up irony. I'm not that good at it.
Oldies,
Well of course they didn't think that at the time. It took a few years of seperation for reality to sink in (for me anyway)...
geo.
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George Aar
Oh, and maybe the Bible isn't B.S., but the Vickster's version of it certainly was, i.e. "The Law of Believing", "The Law of Proportional Giving" (HA!), "The Unforgiveable Sin", etc. etc....
geo.
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Doze
I agree, vic's way was the ultimate pyramid scheme...the products (costs way below Amway), the workers (volunteers who received no pay/as a matter of fact they paid the way to do their work)...it's brilliant if you have no conscience. It worked so well that even now that the business has virtually dried up, they still have millions in the bank.
I own a business, I pay for the products I sell and have to pay competitive wages to people that work for me. There are constant cash flow concerns, finding competent employees who deserve a living wage etc. It is a real struggle to run an honest business with no guarantee of success...but at least I can sleep at night.
Vic really was a master at MM, not the Bible. He didn't have to master the Bible, he just stole from others who had.
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Dot Matrix
IMF
I am with you!
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Oakspear
It doesn't matter if we turn to dust...guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight
Oakspear
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What The Hay
Sounds like an entirely whole new concept to me. I was always under the impression the antagonists were accusing VPW of plagarizing other people and he copied their work exactly word for word and line by line - not that he watered it down.
Oh... Oh... Now I get it! VWP plagarized other peoples work which was already watered down, and decided he would just distill a PURER version from theirs.
Yeah... Yeah... that's the ticket... (as said by Jon Lovitz while playing the devil.)
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IMF777
VeePee took what great men of God wrote and added his filler bull.... into it watering it down into powerless and worthless crap compared to the original.
The only words in pfal that helped people were those parts without veePee's bull.... added.......
Copyright 2004 by the author. All rights reserved. Posting may not be copied or reproduced by anyone, including employees and followers of The Way International, Inc.
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Oakspear
Wierwille did several things:
It doesn't matter if we turn to dust...guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight
Oakspear
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Golfie
"PFAL helped thousands of folks including myself...it met lots of needs." -- oldiesman
I agree. But I know several extwi people who are so thanful for and in love with VPW that they still think PFAL is 99.99% truth (like i used to).
For a while i thought PFAL was 80% truth. Now I think it was 20% truth and 80% baloney, VPW's private interpretation.
PFAL was a starting point, not the end all, for my quest to follow the the true teachings of Jesus and get the eternal LIFE that Jesus came to provide for whosoever wants it. (to hell with TWI's more than abundant life hook, line and sinker).
If PFAL was so good, why does not TWI teach any of it today? WAP class contained less than 10% of the PFAL teachings (as I recall).
It is a shame that some PFAL grads still cling to every PFAL class word of VPW in spite of new light and better teaching on the subject matter.
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excathedra
how he lived spoke volumes to me
?
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oldiesman
George, I agree with you, some of PFAL is B.S. But that's not what you first said, you said "bible b.s."...
But I'm glad you still believe the bible...maybe?...
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oldiesman
I have no idea. I think TWI should put each segment on the internet so folks could view it, for free. It would be a great public service.
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George Aar
Oldies,
"But I'm glad you still believe the bible...maybe?..."
Uh, don't hold your breath. Sorry...
'Course on the "positive" side, I also don't believe in: Astrology, Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism, Wiccah, Islam, Sunworship, ESP, Bigfoot, Crop Circles, Mormonism, or Avacore Baldness cure.
I try not to be sucked in by any superstitious nonsense, if I can help it. Unfortunately a goodly portion of the rest of the world still likes to cling to absurd, unproveable, specious tenets of "faith", and as a result we're still suffering from the madness that such beliefs culture.
Religion really sucks...
geo.
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