karmic, I'm asking if there are people in these exway fellowships that have not been in twi. If there is it would be nice to know and what they are teaching and how they are bringing the new ones in. The offshoot I checked out at one time had just all exway people in it. I think new people would keep things more fresh and alive, don't you?
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
I went to a weekend advance about 2 weeks ago, in Mass. It was very nice and we all had a good time. There was a few non-TWI people. A few times they had to stop us and ask questions as the leaders were kind of assuming that everyone present had the same background.
Galen
ET1 SS - USN Retired,
Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine.
"I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller
vickles, They SAY they want to attract newbies, to shake things up. That's a big fat LIE. They want to keep things safe and comfortable. To THEM. Okay?
Everything revolves around protecting their special brand of doctrine. THAT is truly all they care about.
I'm serious.
That's it.
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
hiya It's. I only have experience with my offshoot here in Stepfordvile Il, Which I think I covered with ya via PT. I guess I'm a bit prejudiced. BUT... I earned the right to be. ;)-->
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
PS Vicks. I 've also heard spin stories from a couple of newbies that would make you SICK. They were telling me how The Way fell apart. I didn't know whether to laugh or puke.
The Way fell apart cause after Weirwille died (of a broken heart) People wanted to follow God, not a Man. So they formed their own group (insert what camp you are in now)
The Way used to be all peaches and cream before evil Martindale you know.
uh huh. okay. Wasn't that when Pfa-Hell was 200 bucks??????
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
Thanks you all for responding. Its interesting from the posts received that its only a few new people and one of the responses said that the few that were new were at a meeting had to stop and ask questions because it was assumed that they had the same background. I'm assuming a lot but it sounds sort of sad, doesn't it?
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
hiya It's. I only have experience with my offshoot here in Stepfordvile Il, Which I think I covered with ya via PT. I guess I'm a bit prejudiced. BUT... I earned the right to be. ;)-->
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
Thanks Rottie. Just wanted to make sure you weren't sweeping ALL non-TWI fellowships made up of ex-TWI folks into one category!
hey, I was wondering if these offshoots have new people that have never heard of the way? Is it all exway people or are they actually getting new people to these fellowships.
If they don't have newbies, why not? If they do what is attracting the new people?
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
Yes.
New folks, some of which have never even been born again untill they came to this particular 'Offshoot"
If they don't it's cause they don't know how or don't want em.
If they do it's cause God's word works.
Oh, Vickles, You're nice anyway, you don't have to try
i think i can answer your question. i was never in the way. i joined an offshoot last year because i went to one fellowship with someone i became friends with and i really enjoyed the fellowship and the way it all worked out....however, more and more into it they started reading a lot of wierwille books, so i did some research and asked some questions on another forum. raphael from living epistles wrote me an email just asking why i questioned so much. i found this site through his and continued to read up on the history of the way.
i love/loved our fellowships very much until they started presenting our fellowships with wierwille tapes and constantly referring to him as "a great man, dr. wierwille" and etc. i cringe when i hear someone refer to him as great because i felt the fellowship should be about the word of god, and not the teachings of a man.
the people at these fellowships are 90% people who got into the word long after vpw died and they look up to him as a leader of a great ministry. whenever i asked about twi, they just explain that after vpw died, that it became corrupt.
some of the things i have noticed is the words these people use. the way these people all speak is very difficult for me to accept and the fact that there are words that i have been told recently not to say bothers me. god forbid i say luck, create, and etc.... i get a lecture about each of these words and why as a christian i should not say such things.
i also have been told that i should not refer to people outside the word as "friends" and my family is my "worldy family." wtf is that? these are people who raised me and loved me when i had nobody. i am so thankful i found this site. i was hungry for the word of god (now i am starting to sound like them) but instead i got disciplined and alienated from the people i dearly love. i miss my "worldly" life and even though i am not half as messed up as the people who were wrecked by twi, i definately have been damaged by what i thought was a loving bible research ministry.
the fellowships are very loving and the only really uncomfortable thing about them is manifestations. i love learning about the word of god, but lately, i find that i haven't been believing in it as much as i did before i realized that i should make my move to get out. while these people are very kind and love god, the kind of love i need doesn't seem to come from them. i'd rather get a hug from my parents and know that it's genuine and that they love me no matter what, not just because i'm part of their fellowship.
There was a new person in the fellowship I attended this past Wednesday. And yes, it did seem to perk things up. Most of the people in the offshoot I'm in (CRF) are exway, at least here in STL. There are 6 fellowship coordinators and 2 of them were never in the way.
The fellowships have much the same feel as twig ever did. One noticeable difference, however is the kids. They're actually into it. Last year at an advanced class held in Fla there were 325 people total, but easily 1/3 of those were 17 and under. Few months ago in Atlanta there was a weekend fellowship specifically for teens that did quite well.
I recall being at a twig coordinator's meeting 20 yrs ago where the area cordo said "Most of the kids are bored stiff in fellowships; I don't know what to do!" Couple yrs ago I was at the fellowship I normally attend. There was a fellowship for the adults in the living room, the guy's 16 yr old daughter was doing a teen fellowship in another room, and there was a children's fellowship in the basement, all the fellowships had 10 or more people in them. That fellowship split not much later.
All this doesn't guarantee anything good or bad for the future, but CRF has wows (lights), an advanced class, and is planning to start a corps type program.
i forgot to mention that the fellowships i've been attending consist mainly of people 30 and under. most under 25. there is also a teen/kid fellowship run by the same people but there are only a few kids in it. the adult one has tons of people.
If you are taught to distrust and not like as much people who don't belong to your offshoot, that is idolotry. That is saying only people in your offshoot know the truth and can love you. BS!!!! Keep trying to tell them that JC wants us to love all, and reprove sharply the works of darkness. Last night I watched a program by Wayne Dyer, he said "feeling good is feeling God" (assuming a person's conscience isn't seared) if the offshoot makes you feel good, continue, if not don't waste your time.
My only direct knowledge of two offshoots were sadly too much like what they claimed to dislike about TWI. Weirwille worship, supported by old grads, desperately hoping their kids would like it. An occasional new
person who would get the old Way-sales job and run when they saw a bunch of weirdos hanging around talking about the old days. "The Fellowship That Time Forgot." Frozen in 1982. The leader even used VPW phrases and imitated him! SOOOoo spooky. And this wasn't even at one of their fellowships. It was over coffee at my friends house. I just happened to bump into him there.
BTW, he got REALLY offended when I asked him why he talked with a Dr. Weirwille accent when he was from New Jersey! LOL! Oh well, I guess that's why I'm not on his "Ho HO card" list. ;-)
Well, I went to a CGite fellowship that was run by a non TWI guy. He took that CG class and had a photo of VPW, but no actual TWI experience. I had to leave after I found I was correcting him too often on his teachings being "rightly divided." I didn't even believe the stuff anymore, but figured if he was going to teach it, he should at least do it according to the doctrine.
quote:raphael from living epistles wrote me an email just asking why i questioned so much. i found this site through his and continued to read up on the history of the way.
No Way,
I remember that chat. It was a few months ago, maybe more, right? I contacted you because I was surprised to read your questions on a Christian message board that had nothing to do with TWI or cults, and you were asking sincere, honest questions. Welcome to the Greasespot Cafe! I hope to read more from you.
Dont fall for anything you dont like. Dont let them take control over your relationships with family and friends. What they tell you about family and friends sounds harsh because it IS harsh. Use your common sense and dont back down. Confront and question them as much as you want. If you dont-you will regret it.
All this doesn't guarantee anything good or bad for the future, but CRF has wows (lights), an advanced class, and is planning to start a corps type program.
>>
I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. This is no
joke. To me this is like hearing that some kid
whose grandparents were involved in the Mafia
decided to re-embrace a contentious, arrogant, condescending lifestyle even after he knew he could carve out a great life without it. Emulating TWI is not a method to greatness or
peace no matter how "real" or "genuine" the
effort.
God is much, much bigger than TWI and its
narrow view on the "Body" and how it should function. Keep in mind that TWI and its structure was conceived to honor VPW and his desires. Concerns about assisting humanity and delivering the average joe were not of import. It never was. The whole "foundational","intermediate",
"advanced" concept was arbitrary and no where
in the Bible do we see anyone adopting such an
artificial construct. This whole "Class" thing
was designed to route money into the bank
accounts of people who have proven themselves
to be lower than paramecia or amoeba.
If you wanna teach people about the bible
and witness - let your life do that. There is
absolutely no need for people to "join up"
to any church or cause to prove that they are
loyal to God. There is no need to numb people's
minds with endless minutae to justify the existence of VPW or LCM. Its like that proverbial "Stop sign". People keep stopping
at it even though its gone. TWI is the same
way - its old wineskins dude - move on and
live the balance of your life without the bondage.
[This message was edited by diazbro on December 08, 2003 at 20:51.]
[This message was edited by diazbro on December 08, 2003 at 20:52.]
The most important thing for me right now is to love people (as many types of people as possible). to be be there when needed. To be willing to go the extra mile, pull over on the side of the road when there's an accident and try to help. ..... Are you gonna be there for somebody or not. TWI loves to refer to people as selfish when they are working their asses off to try to take care of their families and community.
My spouse and I were forgiven by many wonderful offshoot people who we had known since the childlike stages of our young way adulthood.
I know of a fellowship that grinds it out every week. I don't know if it's good or bad, boring or not but these people welcome everyone and demand nothing...and they have been going for almost 20 years. I respect them on some level.
they are kind.
My 5 year old asks if he can go.
that's pretty good ain't it?
i'm not ready to go yet but...
Jeez maybe they'll turn bad.
Is it possible that there could be something good?
Oh, by the way they're Geerian Wierwillite
[This message was edited by rags leroux on December 08, 2003 at 22:32.]
Unfortunately I've had a similar experience with the local offshoot here.
It's such a pattern. Even when someone from the offshoot recommended a book or something, I found out that it was the latest book being promoted by the wayfers. It's not like someone actually had the originality and incentive to find something by themselves.
It's just freaking amazing. No matter how unique you think your experiences are, it all stems from a pattern that TWI set in place long ago.
For any newbies at offshoots: Things were not all peaches and cream when Weirwille was alive. They were screwing up peoples lives back then too. I won't bore you with the details but believe me, whatever spin story your local offshoot is givng you is balogna.
The thought of attending anything remotely 'like' TWI makes my skin crawl. I think if I were to attend a meeting where people taught things even somewhat vaguely familiar to TWI and it's doctrines I'd have to leave the room.
I think it is due to the fact that I mostly hated 'fellowship' when I was in. Perhaps that's it? I found their fellowships stiff, forced, uncomfortable at times even embarrassing. We were supposed to be a witness of the abundant life and we were mostly people who could barely keep it together week to week.
So I guess I'd have to say...NO, no offshoots for this gal!
Recommended Posts
karmicdebt
not only that, vick, they are running fellowships...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
vickles
karmic, I'm asking if there are people in these exway fellowships that have not been in twi. If there is it would be nice to know and what they are teaching and how they are bringing the new ones in. The offshoot I checked out at one time had just all exway people in it. I think new people would keep things more fresh and alive, don't you?
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
Vickles,
I went to a CES fellowship which had about 2 new people who had never been involved with twi.
Laughter is a tranquilizer with no side effects.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
I went to a weekend advance about 2 weeks ago, in Mass. It was very nice and we all had a good time. There was a few non-TWI people. A few times they had to stop us and ask questions as the leaders were kind of assuming that everyone present had the same background.
Galen
ET1 SS - USN Retired,
Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine.
"I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RottieGrrrl
vickles, They SAY they want to attract newbies, to shake things up. That's a big fat LIE. They want to keep things safe and comfortable. To THEM. Okay?
Everything revolves around protecting their special brand of doctrine. THAT is truly all they care about.
I'm serious.
That's it.
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ItsStillTheWord
Rottie,
Who are/is "THEY/THEM"?
Thanks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RottieGrrrl
hiya It's. I only have experience with my offshoot here in Stepfordvile Il, Which I think I covered with ya via PT. I guess I'm a bit prejudiced. BUT... I earned the right to be.
;)-->
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RottieGrrrl
PS Vicks. I 've also heard spin stories from a couple of newbies that would make you SICK. They were telling me how The Way fell apart. I didn't know whether to laugh or puke.
The Way fell apart cause after Weirwille died (of a broken heart) People wanted to follow God, not a Man. So they formed their own group (insert what camp you are in now)
The Way used to be all peaches and cream before evil Martindale you know.
uh huh. okay. Wasn't that when Pfa-Hell was 200 bucks??????
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
vickles
Thanks you all for responding. Its interesting from the posts received that its only a few new people and one of the responses said that the few that were new were at a meeting had to stop and ask questions because it was assumed that they had the same background. I'm assuming a lot but it sounds sort of sad, doesn't it?
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ItsStillTheWord
Thanks Rottie. Just wanted to make sure you weren't sweeping ALL non-TWI fellowships made up of ex-TWI folks into one category!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ralph Snyder
Yes.
New folks, some of which have never even been born again untill they came to this particular 'Offshoot"
If they don't it's cause they don't know how or don't want em.
If they do it's cause God's word works.
Oh, Vickles, You're nice anyway, you don't have to try
UT1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
No Way
i think i can answer your question. i was never in the way. i joined an offshoot last year because i went to one fellowship with someone i became friends with and i really enjoyed the fellowship and the way it all worked out....however, more and more into it they started reading a lot of wierwille books, so i did some research and asked some questions on another forum. raphael from living epistles wrote me an email just asking why i questioned so much. i found this site through his and continued to read up on the history of the way.
i love/loved our fellowships very much until they started presenting our fellowships with wierwille tapes and constantly referring to him as "a great man, dr. wierwille" and etc. i cringe when i hear someone refer to him as great because i felt the fellowship should be about the word of god, and not the teachings of a man.
the people at these fellowships are 90% people who got into the word long after vpw died and they look up to him as a leader of a great ministry. whenever i asked about twi, they just explain that after vpw died, that it became corrupt.
some of the things i have noticed is the words these people use. the way these people all speak is very difficult for me to accept and the fact that there are words that i have been told recently not to say bothers me. god forbid i say luck, create, and etc.... i get a lecture about each of these words and why as a christian i should not say such things.
i also have been told that i should not refer to people outside the word as "friends" and my family is my "worldy family." wtf is that? these are people who raised me and loved me when i had nobody. i am so thankful i found this site. i was hungry for the word of god (now i am starting to sound like them) but instead i got disciplined and alienated from the people i dearly love. i miss my "worldly" life and even though i am not half as messed up as the people who were wrecked by twi, i definately have been damaged by what i thought was a loving bible research ministry.
the fellowships are very loving and the only really uncomfortable thing about them is manifestations. i love learning about the word of god, but lately, i find that i haven't been believing in it as much as i did before i realized that i should make my move to get out. while these people are very kind and love god, the kind of love i need doesn't seem to come from them. i'd rather get a hug from my parents and know that it's genuine and that they love me no matter what, not just because i'm part of their fellowship.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
There was a new person in the fellowship I attended this past Wednesday. And yes, it did seem to perk things up. Most of the people in the offshoot I'm in (CRF) are exway, at least here in STL. There are 6 fellowship coordinators and 2 of them were never in the way.
The fellowships have much the same feel as twig ever did. One noticeable difference, however is the kids. They're actually into it. Last year at an advanced class held in Fla there were 325 people total, but easily 1/3 of those were 17 and under. Few months ago in Atlanta there was a weekend fellowship specifically for teens that did quite well.
I recall being at a twig coordinator's meeting 20 yrs ago where the area cordo said "Most of the kids are bored stiff in fellowships; I don't know what to do!" Couple yrs ago I was at the fellowship I normally attend. There was a fellowship for the adults in the living room, the guy's 16 yr old daughter was doing a teen fellowship in another room, and there was a children's fellowship in the basement, all the fellowships had 10 or more people in them. That fellowship split not much later.
All this doesn't guarantee anything good or bad for the future, but CRF has wows (lights), an advanced class, and is planning to start a corps type program.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
No Way
i forgot to mention that the fellowships i've been attending consist mainly of people 30 and under. most under 25. there is also a teen/kid fellowship run by the same people but there are only a few kids in it. the adult one has tons of people.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CircleGame
No Way,
If you are taught to distrust and not like as much people who don't belong to your offshoot, that is idolotry. That is saying only people in your offshoot know the truth and can love you. BS!!!! Keep trying to tell them that JC wants us to love all, and reprove sharply the works of darkness. Last night I watched a program by Wayne Dyer, he said "feeling good is feeling God" (assuming a person's conscience isn't seared) if the offshoot makes you feel good, continue, if not don't waste your time.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JustThinking
Vickles,
My only direct knowledge of two offshoots were sadly too much like what they claimed to dislike about TWI. Weirwille worship, supported by old grads, desperately hoping their kids would like it. An occasional new
person who would get the old Way-sales job and run when they saw a bunch of weirdos hanging around talking about the old days. "The Fellowship That Time Forgot." Frozen in 1982. The leader even used VPW phrases and imitated him! SOOOoo spooky. And this wasn't even at one of their fellowships. It was over coffee at my friends house. I just happened to bump into him there.
BTW, he got REALLY offended when I asked him why he talked with a Dr. Weirwille accent when he was from New Jersey! LOL! Oh well, I guess that's why I'm not on his "Ho HO card" list. ;-)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
karmicdebt
Well, I went to a CGite fellowship that was run by a non TWI guy. He took that CG class and had a photo of VPW, but no actual TWI experience. I had to leave after I found I was correcting him too often on his teachings being "rightly divided." I didn't even believe the stuff anymore, but figured if he was going to teach it, he should at least do it according to the doctrine.
Btw, 1/2 the folks there were not in TWI...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
No Way,
I remember that chat. It was a few months ago, maybe more, right? I contacted you because I was surprised to read your questions on a Christian message board that had nothing to do with TWI or cults, and you were asking sincere, honest questions. Welcome to the Greasespot Cafe! I hope to read more from you.
Raf
Link to comment
Share on other sites
No Way
Thanks Raf. I've definately been lurking here since.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chwester
NoWay-
Dont fall for anything you dont like. Dont let them take control over your relationships with family and friends. What they tell you about family and friends sounds harsh because it IS harsh. Use your common sense and dont back down. Confront and question them as much as you want. If you dont-you will regret it.
Proud to be an American
www.northpoint.org
www.anncoulter.org
Link to comment
Share on other sites
diazbro
johniam said:
All this doesn't guarantee anything good or bad for the future, but CRF has wows (lights), an advanced class, and is planning to start a corps type program.
>>
I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. This is no
joke. To me this is like hearing that some kid
whose grandparents were involved in the Mafia
decided to re-embrace a contentious, arrogant, condescending lifestyle even after he knew he could carve out a great life without it. Emulating TWI is not a method to greatness or
peace no matter how "real" or "genuine" the
effort.
God is much, much bigger than TWI and its
narrow view on the "Body" and how it should function. Keep in mind that TWI and its structure was conceived to honor VPW and his desires. Concerns about assisting humanity and delivering the average joe were not of import. It never was. The whole "foundational","intermediate",
"advanced" concept was arbitrary and no where
in the Bible do we see anyone adopting such an
artificial construct. This whole "Class" thing
was designed to route money into the bank
accounts of people who have proven themselves
to be lower than paramecia or amoeba.
If you wanna teach people about the bible
and witness - let your life do that. There is
absolutely no need for people to "join up"
to any church or cause to prove that they are
loyal to God. There is no need to numb people's
minds with endless minutae to justify the existence of VPW or LCM. Its like that proverbial "Stop sign". People keep stopping
at it even though its gone. TWI is the same
way - its old wineskins dude - move on and
live the balance of your life without the bondage.
[This message was edited by diazbro on December 08, 2003 at 20:51.]
[This message was edited by diazbro on December 08, 2003 at 20:52.]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rags leroux
The most important thing for me right now is to love people (as many types of people as possible). to be be there when needed. To be willing to go the extra mile, pull over on the side of the road when there's an accident and try to help. ..... Are you gonna be there for somebody or not. TWI loves to refer to people as selfish when they are working their asses off to try to take care of their families and community.
My spouse and I were forgiven by many wonderful offshoot people who we had known since the childlike stages of our young way adulthood.
I know of a fellowship that grinds it out every week. I don't know if it's good or bad, boring or not but these people welcome everyone and demand nothing...and they have been going for almost 20 years. I respect them on some level.
they are kind.
My 5 year old asks if he can go.
that's pretty good ain't it?
i'm not ready to go yet but...
Jeez maybe they'll turn bad.
Is it possible that there could be something good?
Oh, by the way they're Geerian Wierwillite
[This message was edited by rags leroux on December 08, 2003 at 22:32.]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RottieGrrrl
No Way. GREAT post.
Unfortunately I've had a similar experience with the local offshoot here.
It's such a pattern. Even when someone from the offshoot recommended a book or something, I found out that it was the latest book being promoted by the wayfers. It's not like someone actually had the originality and incentive to find something by themselves.
It's just freaking amazing. No matter how unique you think your experiences are, it all stems from a pattern that TWI set in place long ago.
For any newbies at offshoots: Things were not all peaches and cream when Weirwille was alive. They were screwing up peoples lives back then too. I won't bore you with the details but believe me, whatever spin story your local offshoot is givng you is balogna.
Cat spelled backwards does NOT spell God!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
A la prochaine
Is it just me or what?
The thought of attending anything remotely 'like' TWI makes my skin crawl. I think if I were to attend a meeting where people taught things even somewhat vaguely familiar to TWI and it's doctrines I'd have to leave the room.
I think it is due to the fact that I mostly hated 'fellowship' when I was in. Perhaps that's it? I found their fellowships stiff, forced, uncomfortable at times even embarrassing. We were supposed to be a witness of the abundant life and we were mostly people who could barely keep it together week to week.
So I guess I'd have to say...NO, no offshoots for this gal!
I'm in a real sour mood ...
'til the next time...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.