I don't think that very many people really want you to leave, myself included.
I think that the consensus opinion is that you are extremely close-minded.
I also think that very many of the posters here got pretty tired of the "I'm just absolutely right" attitude displayed by leadersh!t for many years, and won't react very positively to it.
On the plus side, your posts have generated quite a flurry of activity here, and have presented an excellent counterpoint to the general atmosphere that is present here, that is to say, "veepee was a conman and a fraud and a sex pervert". You have provided a means by which some have been able to demonstrate the less-than-perfect aspects of pfal and docvic's "writings".
Not to mention the entertainment value (and I'm not referring to entertainment at your expense - I mean the entertainment of watching you and others sparring).
Mike, it's a free world!! not what we were used to in The Way!
you can do what you like, anywhere....it does carry consequence
do you need a poll? ....maybe to see how well you are liked? maybe zero in on and stalk the positive voters!!??
get real!
mark and avoid is a real concept designed by God and evident in nature......twi/Craig used it for personal gain
p.s. I don't have the skills to "shut you down"....i know/created one that can!!! If you really screw with people here that i care about.....you may suffer your own "consequence", God notwithstanding! got it?
fukkin whacked, you is ....but press on, I'm sure God will back you up! -->
you're not Catmandoo, are you?
p.p.s. you're contribution here has enlightened me greatly!!!!
[This message was edited by OCD #1 on January 05, 2003 at 8:00.]
Well, OCD#1, in addition to a few more very exciting, loving, peacful items up my sleeve, one of which I already dropped a teensey tiny hint on many posts ago, I'm currently witnessing to the WAYGB. You're making it very difficult for me to stay on track.
Mike, I think you are an essential voice here. Whether you stay or go should NEVER be put to a vote. Since when is an individual voice only allowed to speak at the discretion of the majority - in a free country that is? Or even an "open" forum?
I think you're making progress Mike. You're winning people's hearts, slowly but surely, or else, why would they protest so loudly? They are fighting the inevitable, resisting the truth. In their hearts they know you are right. No, I don't really believe that, but it was kind of fun to write.
Please don't go Mike. I am disappointed in the bathroom wall grafiti directed at you, and the hostility. It is misplaced. You are the effect, not the cause. Maybe people see a part of themselves reflected in you, and they don't like what they see, even though that part of themselves no longer rules their lives. Maybe the urge to rejoin the cult is like the long dormant ring in Lord of the Rings, whose power is rekindled in the presence of its master's influence.
The draw of the cult is strong. But you know that, Mike, wherever you are inside that mind of yours. I almost shudder to think how close to being Moonies we really were. You are the gentle presence of the insidious temptation to surrender we've all felt in the past. That's why your presence is so unsettling to some of us. But I think it's healthy, because there is plenty of opportunity to examine your beliefs in the clear light of day, and away from the inviting fellowship's appeal.
or delay response to a time I think the context will support it,
or don't have time...
Will you then vote me off?
Or will you sick a hacker on me?
Look how the topic is ME here. I don't like that. I want to be a messenger. I want you folks to debate the message, not ME!
When do I have permission from you all to get back on the thread topic?
don't fukk with anybody, Mike!
didn't the devil dirty some windows that you need to "cleanse" today?
no offense, I do honor a SERIOUS working man!
see ya, wouldn't want to be ya!
i'm sure the "hack threat" makes you feel that much more important....no charge! ;)--> ;)-->
it WAS a warning :D--> there are some here i REALLY care about, if you screw with them, i will feel obliged to take up for and protect them.......your post to mj412 was creepy.....keep it public, Mike....and no problems ;)-->
Mike, since you are truly our only dyed in the wool, unreserved Weirwille-worshipping Waybot, I'd like to know some things about you that aren't necessarily on the level of purely theoretical. I'm not being sarcastic with the following questions, I truly just want some hard evidence of the possible lengths Weirwille-worshippers go in deifying their favorite Corfield Ohio Huckster Gawd.
Do you have TWi shrines about your house, such as busts of Mr. Weirwille, Uncle Harry and Howard Allen? Are their portraits mounted on the walls at random, or are they all together where you can light candles?
Do you keep scrapbooks of TWI memorabilia?
When you pray, do you pray "In the name of the Doktor?" Or do you pray directly to Weirwille? Has VWP been raised from the dead, in your estimation?
Please tell us some of the very personal ways you have developed to worship VPW....to some of us, that is far more important than merely breathlessly reporting VPW's off-the-cuff gruntings.
For the most part you have been treated pretty respectfully until your post addressed to MJ. Goey, Rafael, Mark S, myself and others have dealt mainly with the substance of your position, and have not attacked you personally. Your points have been countered with the bible, with logic, and *gasp* common sense!
Your position is a minority one here, to say the least, and unpopular to boot; yet The administrator and moderators have not censored you, and it has not been suggested seriously that you not be allowed to post here. I believe, as do most of the others who have engaged you, that debate is a good thing. I believe that the posting of diverse opinions is a good thing. I believe that rebutting those opinions that are demonstrably false is a good thing.
Mike, I am reasonably sure that you realize this, but Grease Spot Cafe is not filled with folks eager to eat up every word you write. You are starting to come across as someone who thinks he has a following. Keep on preaching, brother, but you'd better expect, no make that bet your life on, being rebutted and argued against.
Maybe you have rationalized this as the adversary standing against and trying to hinder your "godly" stand; but what it is is that many people here see contradictions between the bible and what you are saying, between the bible and some of what Wierwille taught.
Note that the arguments that you are getting are not atheistic arguments against the veracity of the bible, we are relying on the premise that "The bible, as originally revealed to men of God, and written as they were moved by the holy spirit, is the Word and will of God" (like Wierwille said). Most of the arguments also are presented using Wierwille's own keys to understanding and interpreting the bible. we are playing on your field Mikey.
A few posters have described your post to MJ as "creepy".
quote:So, mj412, the reason I asked you if you knew Sxxxx is because I’m still praying for her. It hurt my heart many times, how confusing all this ministry stuff is, so I really know how she feels...Mj412, even if you don’t know Sxxxx now, if you should meet her in the future, could you please ask her to e-mail me, or at least pass a message on to me by way of you? I just want to know that she is ok. I am doing my best to see her healed, but a little feedback would help.
What's your point here? If MJ is Sxxxx, who the H*LL are you to put her real name on this board? If MJ isn't Sxxxx, New York's a big f---in' state, do you really think they're going to run into each other? Sheeesh.
Why don't you leave MJ be? She doesn't appear to want your help, if she ever did.
Oakspear
...goin' down to Rosedale, got my rider by my side...and I'm standin' at the crossroads...
Abigail et all. Look at what Gamaliel said in Acts.
I've been waiting a LONG time for this...
GAMALIEL WAS WRONG!!!!
Think about it: according to his statement, the only doctrines and movements that survive are those that have God's blessing on them. All others will come to nought.
Trinitarianism has endured through the centuries. By Gamaliel's standard, it must be of God.
Islam has survived for centuries. By Gamaliel's standard, it must be of God.
Gamaliel's statement is quoted supportively by far too many Christians. It's a great quote, but ultimately, it proves nothing. The endurance of a viewpoint is not proof of its divine authority.
P.S. Ditto to what Oakspear said above. That post to mj WAS creepy.
If I may be so bold, OCD, please calm down. If MJ wants to complain to Paw, she should do so. Let "the proper authorities" handle it.
My post about ***** addressed to ***** was 100% correct on the facts. I TRIED to help her last year and I TRIED to help her last night. Look at how creepy her posts were to me. So creepy her friends had to talk to her.
Might the "creeps" be in the eye of the beholder?
I'm STILL waiting for permission to post on the thread, but everyone seems to want to avoid that.
Rafael, you are 100% correct. I almost inserted a little more to say that, but it would have deflected my point.
Gamaliel was right in that he thought it was stupid to persecute some powerless poor fools, or so he thought. He did have a little world wisdom, but he missed the new birth, or so it seems from the absense of any more mention.
At least he had a little 5-senses wisdom. I was exhorting people to rise up to even THAT little bit of wisdom. Can you please elaborate on this for me for those who don't want to look it up, or can't remember well enough?
The issue of taking apoll to vote you off the forums is a straw man. You're the only one that suggested it. No one gets voted off for their opinions. No one wants you off, we don't like your opinions, but we want you to have the opportunity to keep posting them...get it, geez Mike, I thought you were an intelligent guy!
Permission to get back on topic? Who's stopping you? Talk about whatever you want, answer whatever questions you want and at whatever length you want.
And regarding "sicking a hacker on you" - OCD speaks for himself! Like you, he has his own unique niche here at the cafe.
Oakspear
...goin' down to Rosedale, got my rider by my side...and I'm standin' at the crossroads...
Mike I know OCD and that person wouldn't harm a fly. Quite the contrary ask a matter of fact. Have you ever heard the statement "give the shirt off their back" ?
That is OCD in my book.I also know that OCD is very loyal to friends and family. If he knows that any of those he cares for are in any danger he will do whatever needs to be done to protect loved ones........that is admirable.
And like Oakspear said:
quote: What's your point here? If MJ is Sxxxx, who the H*LL are you to put her real name on this board? If MJ isn't Sxxxx, New York's a big f---in' state, do you really think they're going to run into each other? Sheeesh.
Abigail, I gave EVERYONE with a brain 3 open transparent hints, I did not try to deceive.
1 NY big place, lots of people
2 lots of colleges there
3 everyone has computers.
Do the math. I was wide out in the open, but you were in the shadows looking for clues. Maybe you've read too many Raymond Chandler novels. Just guessing.
She was taunting me, so I guessed who she was and tried to remind her of how she contacted me, how we had a good time corresponding, and then she disappeared. I told the WHOLE story of what happened because she was alluding that MORE happened.
I didn't want to confront her, especially in front of others, so i gently remind her. As gently as I know how in an antagonistic atmosphere to an antagonist.
How would YOU have handled it if you wer in my shoes?
Now if I got her identity wrong, guessed wrong, I might remind you that she did not tell me who she was in her goading. Plus others chimed in and ASKED me what happened. I told my side of the story. Do YOUR rules forbid that too?
Does this remind anyone of a twi inquisition? It does remind me of it. A lot.
I've got to go to work now. And I never did get my permission to post.
Yes, I work on Sunday. Who wants to condemn me for that? Who'll start the bidding at fire?
Do I hear fire?
Fire from the SNL Church Lady over in the shadows.
Do I hear Fire and Brimstone?
Fire and Brimstone.
Do I hear phychological torture before the fire and brimstone?
Any one want to persecute this heretic of the sacred GS holy doctine?
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T-Bone
Great posts Rocky & Waysider ! Sometimes wierwille apologetics make me think of an Old Testament passage: 20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and
Bolshevik
He tells them to be joyful. Doesn't explain how. The Word says be joyful *POOF* you are now joyful. Like when claiming verses. Craftily disconnects the motive from the action. . . .
WordWolf
Yes. BTW, anyone who wants a quick summary of the main points of that entire transcript, it's simple. I said it before: "Serving people is important for Christians. Therefore, master
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Steve!
Mike -
I don't think that very many people really want you to leave, myself included.
I think that the consensus opinion is that you are extremely close-minded.
I also think that very many of the posters here got pretty tired of the "I'm just absolutely right" attitude displayed by leadersh!t for many years, and won't react very positively to it.
On the plus side, your posts have generated quite a flurry of activity here, and have presented an excellent counterpoint to the general atmosphere that is present here, that is to say, "veepee was a conman and a fraud and a sex pervert". You have provided a means by which some have been able to demonstrate the less-than-perfect aspects of pfal and docvic's "writings".
Not to mention the entertainment value (and I'm not referring to entertainment at your expense - I mean the entertainment of watching you and others sparring).
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OCD #1
Mike, it's a free world!! not what we were used to in The Way!
you can do what you like, anywhere....it does carry consequence
do you need a poll? ....maybe to see how well you are liked? maybe zero in on and stalk the positive voters!!??
get real!
mark and avoid is a real concept designed by God and evident in nature......twi/Craig used it for personal gain
p.s. I don't have the skills to "shut you down"....i know/created one that can!!! If you really screw with people here that i care about.....you may suffer your own "consequence", God notwithstanding! got it?
fukkin whacked, you is ....but press on, I'm sure God will back you up!
-->
you're not Catmandoo, are you?
p.p.s. you're contribution here has enlightened me greatly!!!!
[This message was edited by OCD #1 on January 05, 2003 at 8:00.]
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Mike
Well, OCD#1, in addition to a few more very exciting, loving, peacful items up my sleeve, one of which I already dropped a teensey tiny hint on many posts ago, I'm currently witnessing to the WAYGB. You're making it very difficult for me to stay on track.
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QamiQazi
Mike, I think you are an essential voice here. Whether you stay or go should NEVER be put to a vote. Since when is an individual voice only allowed to speak at the discretion of the majority - in a free country that is? Or even an "open" forum?
I think you're making progress Mike. You're winning people's hearts, slowly but surely, or else, why would they protest so loudly? They are fighting the inevitable, resisting the truth. In their hearts they know you are right. No, I don't really believe that, but it was kind of fun to write.
Please don't go Mike. I am disappointed in the bathroom wall grafiti directed at you, and the hostility. It is misplaced. You are the effect, not the cause. Maybe people see a part of themselves reflected in you, and they don't like what they see, even though that part of themselves no longer rules their lives. Maybe the urge to rejoin the cult is like the long dormant ring in Lord of the Rings, whose power is rekindled in the presence of its master's influence.
The draw of the cult is strong. But you know that, Mike, wherever you are inside that mind of yours. I almost shudder to think how close to being Moonies we really were. You are the gentle presence of the insidious temptation to surrender we've all felt in the past. That's why your presence is so unsettling to some of us. But I think it's healthy, because there is plenty of opportunity to examine your beliefs in the clear light of day, and away from the inviting fellowship's appeal.
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Mike
Abigail et all. Look at what Gamaliel said in Acts.
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OCD #1
Mike, voice your opinion
mind your business
and answer questions in the threads, DON'T send unsolicited mail
and we cool!
"witnessing to WAYGB"......you ain't right at all! get some PROFESSIONAL help, Mike!
personally, i think you got your head up your *** and don't really care about your "teensey tiny hints" and forthcoming "data"
but like i said, it's a free world ....with consequence
no argument here
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Mike
And if I choose to NOT answer a question,
or delay response to a time I think the context will support it,
or don't have time...
Will you then vote me off?
Or will you sick a hacker on me?
Look how the topic is ME here. I don't like that. I want to be a messenger. I want you folks to debate the message, not ME!
When do I have permission from you all to get back on the thread topic?
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Mike
And am I not allowed to e-mail any other GreaseSpotters to bring up a private topic? Is that "unsolicited" if I sent you an e-mail?
I really want to know the rules. Whoever makes the rules let me know.
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OCD #1
don't fukk with anybody, Mike!
didn't the devil dirty some windows that you need to "cleanse" today?
no offense, I do honor a SERIOUS working man!
see ya, wouldn't want to be ya!
i'm sure the "hack threat" makes you feel that much more important....no charge!
;)--> 
;)-->
it WAS a warning
:D--> there are some here i REALLY care about, if you screw with them, i will feel obliged to take up for and protect them.......your post to mj412 was creepy.....keep it public, Mike....and no problems 
;)-->
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Larry P2
Mike, since you are truly our only dyed in the wool, unreserved Weirwille-worshipping Waybot, I'd like to know some things about you that aren't necessarily on the level of purely theoretical. I'm not being sarcastic with the following questions, I truly just want some hard evidence of the possible lengths Weirwille-worshippers go in deifying their favorite Corfield Ohio Huckster Gawd.
Do you have TWi shrines about your house, such as busts of Mr. Weirwille, Uncle Harry and Howard Allen? Are their portraits mounted on the walls at random, or are they all together where you can light candles?
Do you keep scrapbooks of TWI memorabilia?
When you pray, do you pray "In the name of the Doktor?" Or do you pray directly to Weirwille? Has VWP been raised from the dead, in your estimation?
Please tell us some of the very personal ways you have developed to worship VPW....to some of us, that is far more important than merely breathlessly reporting VPW's off-the-cuff gruntings.
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OCD #1
for safety sake
restrain yourself to inviting people to email YOU!
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Oakspear
Mike:
For the most part you have been treated pretty respectfully until your post addressed to MJ. Goey, Rafael, Mark S, myself and others have dealt mainly with the substance of your position, and have not attacked you personally. Your points have been countered with the bible, with logic, and *gasp* common sense!
Your position is a minority one here, to say the least, and unpopular to boot; yet The administrator and moderators have not censored you, and it has not been suggested seriously that you not be allowed to post here. I believe, as do most of the others who have engaged you, that debate is a good thing. I believe that the posting of diverse opinions is a good thing. I believe that rebutting those opinions that are demonstrably false is a good thing.
Mike, I am reasonably sure that you realize this, but Grease Spot Cafe is not filled with folks eager to eat up every word you write. You are starting to come across as someone who thinks he has a following. Keep on preaching, brother, but you'd better expect, no make that bet your life on, being rebutted and argued against.
Maybe you have rationalized this as the adversary standing against and trying to hinder your "godly" stand; but what it is is that many people here see contradictions between the bible and what you are saying, between the bible and some of what Wierwille taught.
Note that the arguments that you are getting are not atheistic arguments against the veracity of the bible, we are relying on the premise that "The bible, as originally revealed to men of God, and written as they were moved by the holy spirit, is the Word and will of God" (like Wierwille said). Most of the arguments also are presented using Wierwille's own keys to understanding and interpreting the bible. we are playing on your field Mikey.
A few posters have described your post to MJ as "creepy".
What's your point here? If MJ is Sxxxx, who the H*LL are you to put her real name on this board? If MJ isn't Sxxxx, New York's a big f---in' state, do you really think they're going to run into each other? Sheeesh.
Why don't you leave MJ be? She doesn't appear to want your help, if she ever did.
Oakspear
...goin' down to Rosedale, got my rider by my side...and I'm standin' at the crossroads...
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Abigail
deleted by Abigail
[This message was edited by Abigail on January 09, 2003 at 3:04.]
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Raf
I've been waiting a LONG time for this...
GAMALIEL WAS WRONG!!!!
Think about it: according to his statement, the only doctrines and movements that survive are those that have God's blessing on them. All others will come to nought.
Trinitarianism has endured through the centuries. By Gamaliel's standard, it must be of God.
Islam has survived for centuries. By Gamaliel's standard, it must be of God.
Gamaliel's statement is quoted supportively by far too many Christians. It's a great quote, but ultimately, it proves nothing. The endurance of a viewpoint is not proof of its divine authority.
P.S. Ditto to what Oakspear said above. That post to mj WAS creepy.
If I may be so bold, OCD, please calm down. If MJ wants to complain to Paw, she should do so. Let "the proper authorities" handle it.
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Mike
My post about ***** addressed to ***** was 100% correct on the facts. I TRIED to help her last year and I TRIED to help her last night. Look at how creepy her posts were to me. So creepy her friends had to talk to her.
Might the "creeps" be in the eye of the beholder?
I'm STILL waiting for permission to post on the thread, but everyone seems to want to avoid that.
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Mike
Rafael, you are 100% correct. I almost inserted a little more to say that, but it would have deflected my point.
Gamaliel was right in that he thought it was stupid to persecute some powerless poor fools, or so he thought. He did have a little world wisdom, but he missed the new birth, or so it seems from the absense of any more mention.
At least he had a little 5-senses wisdom. I was exhorting people to rise up to even THAT little bit of wisdom. Can you please elaborate on this for me for those who don't want to look it up, or can't remember well enough?
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Abigail
deleted by Abigail
[This message was edited by Abigail on January 09, 2003 at 3:05.]
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Oakspear
Mike:
The issue of taking apoll to vote you off the forums is a straw man. You're the only one that suggested it. No one gets voted off for their opinions. No one wants you off, we don't like your opinions, but we want you to have the opportunity to keep posting them...get it, geez Mike, I thought you were an intelligent guy!
Permission to get back on topic? Who's stopping you? Talk about whatever you want, answer whatever questions you want and at whatever length you want.
And regarding "sicking a hacker on you" - OCD speaks for himself! Like you, he has his own unique niche here at the cafe.
Oakspear
...goin' down to Rosedale, got my rider by my side...and I'm standin' at the crossroads...
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Raf
Oh for Vic's sake.
Permission granted. There, happy now?
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Oakspear
Okay Mike, you want it, you got it
YOU HAVE MY PERMISSION TO POST HERE AND TO POST "ON TOPIC"
Any dissenters?
Oh, Mike, please stop whining, it's not dignified
;)-->
Oakspear
...goin' down to Rosedale, got my rider by my side...and I'm standin' at the crossroads...
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firebee
Boy has this thread taken a turn
Mike I know OCD and that person wouldn't harm a fly. Quite the contrary ask a matter of fact. Have you ever heard the statement "give the shirt off their back" ?
That is OCD in my book.I also know that OCD is very loyal to friends and family. If he knows that any of those he cares for are in any danger he will do whatever needs to be done to protect loved ones........that is admirable.
And like Oakspear said:
Mike you are getting a little over the line IMO
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Oakspear
Rafael, you beat me
:D-->
Do they teach you to type fast in "reporter school"?
:D-->
I went to "grocery school", I just learned how to handle "melons"
:P-->
Oakspear
...goin' down to Rosedale, got my rider by my side...and I'm standin' at the crossroads...
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Raf
Shouldn't we all be in church?
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Mike
Abigail, I gave EVERYONE with a brain 3 open transparent hints, I did not try to deceive.
1 NY big place, lots of people
2 lots of colleges there
3 everyone has computers.
Do the math. I was wide out in the open, but you were in the shadows looking for clues. Maybe you've read too many Raymond Chandler novels. Just guessing.
She was taunting me, so I guessed who she was and tried to remind her of how she contacted me, how we had a good time corresponding, and then she disappeared. I told the WHOLE story of what happened because she was alluding that MORE happened.
I didn't want to confront her, especially in front of others, so i gently remind her. As gently as I know how in an antagonistic atmosphere to an antagonist.
How would YOU have handled it if you wer in my shoes?
Now if I got her identity wrong, guessed wrong, I might remind you that she did not tell me who she was in her goading. Plus others chimed in and ASKED me what happened. I told my side of the story. Do YOUR rules forbid that too?
Does this remind anyone of a twi inquisition? It does remind me of it. A lot.
I've got to go to work now. And I never did get my permission to post.
Yes, I work on Sunday. Who wants to condemn me for that? Who'll start the bidding at fire?
Do I hear fire?
Fire from the SNL Church Lady over in the shadows.
Do I hear Fire and Brimstone?
Fire and Brimstone.
Do I hear phychological torture before the fire and brimstone?
Any one want to persecute this heretic of the sacred GS holy doctine?
(to be continued)
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