Dr's Last Teaching - LOST for 17 Years!

[Mike]

Exy,

Our physical location at the gathering together is not important. It's our SPIRITUAL focus and understanding that get raised above the usual earthbound 5-senses understanding.

There's n0 mention of unbelievers being able to see a change in OUR physical location, or see US physically missing from planet Earth. It's the earthy prison, the 5-senses prison, we're freed from.

Our protection form the wrath is not from physical removal, it's from spiritual strength.

Edited March 10, 2003 by Guest

[alfakat]

chapter and verse??????????????????????

[Hope R.]

How did this get back to the top? I thought it was buried weeks ago....

[alfakat]

Hope, it was dead--but on the third day....

[Mike]

Zixar,

Some administrations change in a fuzzy way. Like the beginning of the Christ administration: WHEN is it exactly? Christ's conception, his birth, his coming of age, his receiving spirit, his transfiguration ordination, his entering Jerusalem as king? Or the annunciation to Mary? Or the annunciation to John the Baptist's father?

The Appearing Administration doesn't begin with the stark revelation of Christ to us. The beginning is when God makes something new available to believe for. Believing is necessary. These new things, such as seeing Christ face to face, require believing. Free will is not suspended at the gathering. We do not get zapped with a perfectly renewed mind, we get taught it, and must believe and act on it.

I see the fuzzy beginnings of the new administration barely starting in 1942, then proceeding to 1982, when this 40 year preparation period was completed, and Dr announced it in the record many times. I said MANY times, but no one saw it.

I TOLD you I still had some major radical beliefs to unload here. Just wait until I get to THAT thread. Right now, I just want this thread to run past us all one more time, including our family in TWI. So, it doesn't bother me that we're off topic.

You all just go ahead and rag on me all you want about what I just said. You'll be assisting me in keeping this most important thread in the eyes of all those, us older grad leaders, who either missed it or blew off this Last/Lost Teaching of Dr. Wierwille.

Have fun! I'm going to work for a few hours.

Edited March 10, 2003 by Guest

[GarthP2000]

Hope,

Or as Dr. Frankenstein once said, "It is a-L-I-V-V-E!!" :D-->

"People, people, people, you're missing it here. Power for Abundant Living is God's Word."

((sigh)) Looks like Smikeol has finally got himself a disciple. :(--> "My preciouusssss!"

"How do you know that there's been no change of administrations?"

So Mike, not only are we adding to the Word so to speak, we are now adding administrations too? And what does it mean when it talks about the 'gathering together' anyway? That it isn't a physical leaving of this earth?

Please don't tell me that it already happened in the person and arrival of VPW and PFAL. Ye Gawds!! If the whole TWI experience is the best that God can do regarding the gathering together, well, maybe its time to stop believing God then. :o-->

Prophet Emeritus of THE,

and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,

Garth P.

www.gapstudioweb.com

[Mike]

Garth,

It's happenING.

[GarthP2000]

"I see the fuzzy beginnings of the new administration barely starting in 1942, then proceeding to 1982, when this 40 year preparation period was completed, and Dr announced it in the record many times. I said MANY times, but no one saw it."

((((SIGH)))) Apparently Smikeol does.

Hey Raf! Just when it looks like Smikeol can't outdo himself, .... he does. -->

Prophet Emeritus of THE,

and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,

Garth P.

www.gapstudioweb.com

[GarthP2000]

Mike,

Thanks but no thanks. I always say 'No' to drugs.

Prophet Emeritus of THE,

and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,

Garth P.

www.gapstudioweb.com

[Mike]

Garth,

There's even STILL more!

...not drugs though

Edited March 10, 2003 by Guest

[excathedra]

i'll be damned, well you know, i hope not

this is da vierville administration

i knew it

yes mike i'm ragging (but you are so asking for it)

i'm getting a fuzzy feeling da vierville might get up from the grave soon

[excathedra]

there's more, mike ?

is dr. wierwille really dead ?

[seaspray]

exy, what is a mind anyway?

Mike, cool.

Zixar, just which version, translation, or scrap of what have you are we going to fight over here?

TomT, are you calling me a turd?

alfakat, look, the sign post up ahead.

[excathedra]

oh you know what a mind is

sea, is mike gone now

to work

[alfakat]

oh, no worries, mate--I saw it long before you did.......

[Mike]

Exy,

I don't know anything (yet) about the graves being emptied or when it happens.

I do know that mastering PFAL gives us what we need NOW so that we can then see what God's plans are for that last trump. (ICor15)

As for MY PLANS, I got to pull myself out of here and go to work.

[Pirate1974]

excathie,

I think you might be on to something there.

Maybe in one of those extremely long posts, Mike will reveal that he really is VP and he's been hiding out in California all these years.

[Zixar]

seaspray: Have you actually read this entire thread? Tell you what, since Mike refuses to answer, why don't you explain to us all some of those "apparent" contradictions that Rafael posted in the Actual Errors thread?

[excathedra]

now wait a sec, are we gonna get logical here ?

mike, sea,

did either one of you have a special vision or visit from the father in the word

[WordWolf]

Actually, vpw disagreed with Bullinger about

which administrations/dispensations were which.

They both totalled the results as 7.

vpw claimed that #4 was "Christ" administration-

which, apparently, lasted under 1 year, and was

nearly indistinguishable from the Law

Administration, #4. Then vpw said #5 was

Grace (Pentecost to the Gathering Together),

# 6 was the Appearing (Gathering Together thru

the Apocalypse, ending in the end of

Revelation 20), and the Final, of Glory

Administration, #7, was everything after that.

Bullinger had written that # 7 was the Glory

Dispensation, also. (Personally, I prefer the

term "stewardship" to "administration" or

"dispensation".) Bullinger, however, had

written #4 was the Law, which vpw appears to

have copied. However, Bullinger seems to have

agreed with Jesus that "not one jot or tittle

will pass away from the Law, til all be

fulfilled", and that it wasn't "finished" until

the crucifixion. That means the "Christ

administration" is the last year of the Law

"administration". Then Grace becomes #4, and

the Appearing becomes #5.

Between #5 and # 7 comes the Millenial reign,

lasting 1,000 years.

Having had a chance to review Bullinger before

making his own statements, why, then, did vpw

renumber #5 & #6 with no real explanation, and

certainly less justification than Bullinger's

named ones?

Here are, as I see it, the possibilities.

A) "God told him Bullinger was wrong."

(A la Mike)

B) vpw was obsessed with coming up with his own

spin on things, so he renamed the oikonomia and

renumbered them.

C) vpw was so obsessed with making everything

fit his clockwork construct that he juggled the

numbers until Grace =#5.

D) B & C.

[GarthP2000]

Wordwolf,

You forgot E) VPW was really hitting the Drambrue when he was coming up with this stuff.

:D-->

Prophet Emeritus of THE,

and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,

Garth P.

www.gapstudioweb.com

[seaspray]

Zixar,

Thought I had read it but now that you mention it, I can't swear I did read the whole thing. I'll swing through it and get back to you.

With respect to Rafael's positions let me say I'm far more of a novice with God's Word than Mike is. I've looked briefly at them here and on his site. All I can tell you is God's Word was not written for unbelievers. Each person decides for himself whether he's going to believe God's Word or not. Yesterday's gone. Tomorrow ain't here yet. God's Word is an eternal now

[Zixar]

seaspray: Just so we don't start off on the wrong foot, I actually do believe the Bible, and quite a bit of what was taught in PFAL. Things like speaking in tongues, born again, Jesus Christ is not God, and most importantly, the integrity of the Word.

Dr. Wierwille did get some things demonstrably wrong in PFAL, some nitpicks, some more substantial. He did get some things right, too. All it is is a Bible study class. Some of it is profitable, some of it isn't. If you choose to believe all of it, that's completely your choice, more power to you. What the real argument is over is believing that every single word in the orange book came straight from God. Whether some of it is of God is open to debate. Whether all of it is directly from God is not--the PFAL class does not live up to its own standards for "fitting like a hand in a glove, with mathematical exactness and scientific precision" as VPW was fond of saying as indicative of the integrity of the Word.

Several folks here, myself included, some believers, some not, have challenged Mike's ultra-literal worship of PFAL itself as idolatry. Rafael Olmeda has put together a list of actual errors in the PFAL class, like VPW getting the David story backwards, which can be proven in under two minutes by simply reading the account. For most rational people, the discovery of a real error would automatically rule out PFAL as being given by direct inspiration of God. Mike irrationally refuses to consider the possibility.

Like I said, you don't have to give up believing what you were taught in PFAL if you don't want to. A lot of folks here don't believe any of it, some still believe a lot of it. Only Mike (and you, unless I've misunderstood you) goes so far as to believe PFAL is literally as much the direct Word of God as Ephesians is. Wierwille never claimed it was, in fact he claimed the exact opposite, separating his words as inferior from the true Word of God.

[igotout]

MIke - you got me. I now believe that every word of Dr. is of God. Where do I sign up. What class do I take? WHere is the nearest fellowship or should I just start one and hold forth this Word even if no one believes it.

The reason I am converted is because this thread liveth and abideth forever.

Indeed a notable miracle! What was that verse in Acts.... if it be of God it can not be overthrown.

[Mike]

Igotout,

I've been repeating over and over here how to "sign up" is as simple as opening the books and reading with meekness. Apply all the keys for right dividing we were taught. If you simply do what Dr told us to do it will start coming together. THEN you can say something like your above post without being facetious.

Zixar,

I haven't been irrational at all. I've offered lots hints as to how to start working on those apparent errors in PFAL. No one has listened to them. You gave away the error in your methods when you said these "...(errors) which can be proven in under two minutes by simply reading the account.”

That simple minded approach is what I refuse to participate in. Do you want me to count the number of times I’ve reported that those kinds of things can take months and years to properly look at? I take years, you take minutes. No thanks. This stuff is too important to me to throw away that easily.

Then again, Zixar, how many times did I ask what was going to be your move if I were to quickly solve one of those AEs?? Why does everyone run away from such a simple question?

Then again, I asked more than once HOW MANY of the AEs would I have to solve for you before you would see the error of that approach? Why does everyone run away from such a simple question?

Two more questions: have you applied ALL the keys we were taught to solve the AEs? How can you KNOW all the keys until you master the material as we were supposed to?

You wing it in your criticisms, and then accuse Dr of winging it in his writing. Real rational!

I’ve been in the position you are in now for years. I’m not irrational in refusing to return to a state of mind I found to be fruitless and unsound. I rationally discerned this, and I rationally changed my mind. It’s highly repugnant for you to demand I return to something I rationally rejected. I have proved my ability to handle logic here time and time again. Every time you look in a mirror remember this.

I wont spend my time and put my focus in the same spiritual gutter you’re looking in. You wont listen to my reasons so I stop offering them in detail.

[This message was edited by Mike on March 10, 2003 at 21:44.]

Edited March 11, 2003 by Guest