I was discussing this with my wife last night. TWI gave money to nothing, as far as I know. Not only did they not give charity, but they redefined it to mean supporting them. In addition to that, they eagerly took money away from people that needed it, and they gave their own slaves, I mean employees, very little of it. They are the exact opposite of charitable organizations. Give to noone, take everything you can from everyone you can. Money may be the easiest category to quantify their greed, but they settle for nothing less than your mind.
Twi discouraged it's members from giving to charitable causes. They taught us that giving to organizations other than twi was "good" but it was not "best". "Good" was the devils counterfeit for "best"...therefore if you gave anything to another organization, you were being tricked by the devil.
I remember some leader praising groups like the Salvation Army, because helping alcoholics was their focus or purpose. Since ours was biblical research, we didn't have to help others in that way.
I even remember plurality swaps or something like that, where TWI members would get together with their excess, and exchange clothing and such with each other. What was left would be taken to Goodwill. For whatever reason, these were stopped by the leaders. Charity within TWIs own members was discouraged.
quote: Twi discouraged it's members from giving to charitable causes. They taught us that giving to organizations other than twi was "good" but it was not "best".
This is what I was taught, and was raked over the coals by TC and other "leadership" if I gave to any other organization. -->
Here's something similar, along with a question. Let's say someone wants to go to fellowship but doesn't "believe enough" to get there on their own. (They don't have transportation, a vehicle, money for a cab, etc. etc.) And you are the TC. ...
Would you consider it your responsibility to pick the guy up and take him home? What if you refuse because you figure, hey, I am making my house available, teaching, providing refreshments, etc etc. I can't do everything, can I?
quote:"I've also heard teachings which suggest that giving clothes, money, and such to those less fortunate was only enabling them to remain in their poor condition thus it was better to
dispense those items within the body."
That's the teaching I recall as well.
In the church I attended for a while, they called their charity work "outreach". That's what it's called in our PTSA as well. We have a line-item budget for needy kids who don't have money for school supplies, etc. We even paid for glasses for one little boy. How, pray tell, is that "enabling them to remain in their poor condition?"
I've learned which charities give the items I donate directly to the needy, and those who sell the items in their thrift stores. I tend to give to the first kind. There's a migrant ministry here in Tampa that cleans and mends any donated clothing and hangs it up in a store that only the migrants can "shop" in. To me, it's a very worthy cause.
IMO, the only "worthy cause" TWI supported was themselves.
What's that quote from PFAL? When VP says something like "....why don't you give your money to an organization that's doing biblical research instead!"
I can't quite remember the context, but he said it with a nod and a wink - like he was letting everyone know he only meant one specific organization - HIS!
quote:OM, if they wanted to attend, I'd either give them a ride or help arrange for someone else to... why wouldn't I?
Tom, if you haven't a problem with giving them a ride, fine. But what if you did have a problem and felt that you were doing enough already (running the meeting, teaching, providing refreshments, etc.) and you thought that this person wasn't "doing his part" or "believing enough" to get there? In other words, is it too much to insist that if folks want to attend the meeting, they are responsible to try to get there themselves without expecting you to arrange your schedule around them?
no, of course not... I wouldn't consider it "arranging my schedule around them"... even if it was... I always saw it as doing whatever I could to help "move" the Word and help a "babe"... that's just how I was... and pretty much still am... I help folks if I can, no strings, no hidden agenda, it's just me... maybe you need another respondeant... because I wouldn't mind doing it...
It wasn`t just money...it was our time that we weren`t allowed to donate...
I was heavily chastised for cleaning cages at our local humane society....also was in a reserve sheriff depts unit that raised a lot of money for boys and girls ranches.....
It was considered a criminal waste of time doing ANYTHING that wasn`t related to twi.....
Not that i wasn`t doing twig classes outreach and everything else required....
The money I spent on my horse for the sheriff dept was money not being used to move the word...the money spent on my dog was money not being used to move the word as well....
They not only insisted on a 15 percent tithe...my home and effort to run a fellowship....enrollment in every class....they bugrudged EVERY fricken dime or hour that wasn`t coming to them as well....
Man...when I think of the but chewings I endured for participating in any activity not twi....it was considered wasting time that shouldda been spent *moving the word*...it was considered dishonest...
Though I participated in these outside activities regardless....much of the pleasure was gone...because I was told that in doing so.... I was robbing God.....
I remember in 1992 I did a 10 mile run for Multiple Sclerosis and collected monies for the event. Only one person in TWI donated and I think he had ulterior motives LOL. Anyway I couldn't get .10 a mile out of anyone else in twi. I never asked any of them again.
I finished in the top 50 of over a 1000 people and received a small tolken medal around my neck, thank God the people from work donated or Multiple Sclerosis foundation would have lost money on me.
Posh ...... I missed the plurality givings when they stopped them. They were great. I remember doing it in the summer and putting out folding tables in the yard for everyone in twig. Neighbors thought we were having a yard sale LOL.
TWI gave absolutely nothing ... wouldn't even help one of their own people ... their own had to believe for what they wanted or weren't a good believer. Shoot who would have asked? If you did, your life became an open book to be scrutinized.
have lots of mixed feelings about this. on the one hand, you'd think they should've helped when there was a need; on the other, should ABS money be used like that? don't know...
I was refering to a single mom with one child who gave above and beyond where many would have just found it an inconvenience. She loved to be with Gods people, to have good times with them, to help them in any way that was available to her.
As any single Mom knows, who has no family near her, situations arise. This woman generally never asked anyone for anything but fellowship. Long standing with ministry she was.
Catastrophe happened ......
There were peole who she fellowshipped with who helped her with all they had available and it was a blessing but current leadership for TWI did not. Secular groups donated to her ... we helped her ........ she got a new house built for her ... small but met the need for her and her son. In fact a non believer put his 5th wheel on her property so she and her son could live in it while the house was being built. She was staying with believers pryor to this for a short while.
The present leaders refused financial support of any kind. The present leaders didn't lift a finger to help either. She left TWI because even tho no financial support came, she dealt with it ... No leadership came to help either.
Jesus Christ washed the feet of his disciples.
IMO TWI felt the leaders should be served and many expected service from the people.
There were some who I do recall who were wonderful and really got involved in the daily activities of the people and shared their lives, knowledge and skills with them.
have lots of mixed feelings about this. on the one hand, you'd think they should've helped when there was a need; on the other, should ABS money be used like that? don't know...
What do you think ABS is for? Check the book of Acts again. We are to help each other when one is hurting. Ministering to each other goes beyond a class or a fellowship.
However, they do ask that you donate time to help others that are in need of assistance (if phyically able).
I am not, nor have I ever been Mormon. But, I was born and raised in Salt Lake City, Utah and had/have friends who are Mormon. I have also looked into the belief system of the Mormon Church.
What do you think ABS is for? Check the book of Acts again. We are to help each other when one is hurting. Ministering to each other goes beyond a class or a fellowship.
Not only that, but when you have to pay to take a class, which is held in a house that someone volunteers to use, where TWI pays for no materials but profits, then it's a scam. ABS is a black hole.
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Mister P-Mosh
I was discussing this with my wife last night. TWI gave money to nothing, as far as I know. Not only did they not give charity, but they redefined it to mean supporting them. In addition to that, they eagerly took money away from people that needed it, and they gave their own slaves, I mean employees, very little of it. They are the exact opposite of charitable organizations. Give to noone, take everything you can from everyone you can. Money may be the easiest category to quantify their greed, but they settle for nothing less than your mind.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Twi discouraged it's members from giving to charitable causes. They taught us that giving to organizations other than twi was "good" but it was not "best". "Good" was the devils counterfeit for "best"...therefore if you gave anything to another organization, you were being tricked by the devil.
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Nottawayfer
I think they gave some cots and other miscellaneous ROA stuff away to their local area. I doubt they ever gave money to a good cause though.
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JustThinking
They were willing to let local people near HQ do good deeds on occasion but it was always touted by TWI. Free PR. They won't even pay for that. :-(
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def59
I remember some leader praising groups like the Salvation Army, because helping alcoholics was their focus or purpose. Since ours was biblical research, we didn't have to help others in that way.
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Tom Strange
gee... you'd think they'd remember that analogy we were taught about the dead sea... all 'inflow' not 'outflow'... you gotta release peepuhl!...
"that's why the Dead Sea is so dead"...
one of the reasons TWI is so dead?
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Pirate1974
Now I seem to remember hearing somewhere about "whatever you did for the least of my brothers, you did for me."
Who was it that said that?
Oh, yeah.
Jesus.
I know I didn't hear that in twi. Must have been the Methodist church.
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Mister P-Mosh
I even remember plurality swaps or something like that, where TWI members would get together with their excess, and exchange clothing and such with each other. What was left would be taken to Goodwill. For whatever reason, these were stopped by the leaders. Charity within TWIs own members was discouraged.
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dmiller
This is what I was taught, and was raked over the coals by TC and other "leadership" if I gave to any other organization.
-->
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diazbro
It used to be standard teaching that it was
"best" to give money to TWI whereas it might
be only "good" to give money to other churches
and orgainzations. I was taught to look down
on people who couldn't "believe enough" to get
themselves out of their problems especially
if they couldn't "believe enough" to get the
money together for PFAL.
I was also told that for TWI to give money to
organizations such as the American Cancer Society was not "best" since TWI could use the money to get the word over the world thus
dispensing with the need to cure cancer. Besides
cancer is a devil spirit so its a spiritual problem not a financial one.
I've also heard teachings which suggest that
giving clothes, money, and such to those less
fortunate was only enabling them to remain in
their poor condition thus it was better to
dispense those items within the body.
TWI had the concept of us vs them and its clear
that anytime there were financial resources available it was for sure that they would try
very hard to direct that money to New Knoxville.
If you openly gave money to non-Way interests you heard about it.
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oldiesman
Would you consider it your responsibility to pick the guy up and take him home? What if you refuse because you figure, hey, I am making my house available, teaching, providing refreshments, etc etc. I can't do everything, can I?
What would you do?
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Hope R.
Diazbro wrote:
That's the teaching I recall as well.
In the church I attended for a while, they called their charity work "outreach". That's what it's called in our PTSA as well. We have a line-item budget for needy kids who don't have money for school supplies, etc. We even paid for glasses for one little boy. How, pray tell, is that "enabling them to remain in their poor condition?"
I've learned which charities give the items I donate directly to the needy, and those who sell the items in their thrift stores. I tend to give to the first kind. There's a migrant ministry here in Tampa that cleans and mends any donated clothing and hangs it up in a store that only the migrants can "shop" in. To me, it's a very worthy cause.
IMO, the only "worthy cause" TWI supported was themselves.
What's that quote from PFAL? When VP says something like "....why don't you give your money to an organization that's doing biblical research instead!"
I can't quite remember the context, but he said it with a nod and a wink - like he was letting everyone know he only meant one specific organization - HIS!
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Tom Strange
OM, if they wanted to attend, I'd either give them a ride or help arrange for someone else to... why wouldn't I?
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oldiesman
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Tom Strange
no, of course not... I wouldn't consider it "arranging my schedule around them"... even if it was... I always saw it as doing whatever I could to help "move" the Word and help a "babe"... that's just how I was... and pretty much still am... I help folks if I can, no strings, no hidden agenda, it's just me... maybe you need another respondeant... because I wouldn't mind doing it...
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rascal
It wasn`t just money...it was our time that we weren`t allowed to donate...
I was heavily chastised for cleaning cages at our local humane society....also was in a reserve sheriff depts unit that raised a lot of money for boys and girls ranches.....
It was considered a criminal waste of time doing ANYTHING that wasn`t related to twi.....
Not that i wasn`t doing twig classes outreach and everything else required....
The money I spent on my horse for the sheriff dept was money not being used to move the word...the money spent on my dog was money not being used to move the word as well....
They not only insisted on a 15 percent tithe...my home and effort to run a fellowship....enrollment in every class....they bugrudged EVERY fricken dime or hour that wasn`t coming to them as well....
Man...when I think of the but chewings I endured for participating in any activity not twi....it was considered wasting time that shouldda been spent *moving the word*...it was considered dishonest...
Though I participated in these outside activities regardless....much of the pleasure was gone...because I was told that in doing so.... I was robbing God.....
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A la prochaine
TWI and Charity in the same sentence?
:o-->
Now there's an oxymoron (pun intended) if i've ever heard one!!!!!
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Digitalis
I remember in 1992 I did a 10 mile run for Multiple Sclerosis and collected monies for the event. Only one person in TWI donated and I think he had ulterior motives LOL. Anyway I couldn't get .10 a mile out of anyone else in twi. I never asked any of them again.
I finished in the top 50 of over a 1000 people and received a small tolken medal around my neck, thank God the people from work donated or Multiple Sclerosis foundation would have lost money on me.
Posh ...... I missed the plurality givings when they stopped them. They were great. I remember doing it in the summer and putting out folding tables in the yard for everyone in twig. Neighbors thought we were having a yard sale LOL.
TWI gave absolutely nothing ... wouldn't even help one of their own people ... their own had to believe for what they wanted or weren't a good believer. Shoot who would have asked? If you did, your life became an open book to be scrutinized.
Digi
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oldiesman
"wouldn't even help one of their own people"
have lots of mixed feelings about this. on the one hand, you'd think they should've helped when there was a need; on the other, should ABS money be used like that? don't know...
i wonder how the Mormon welfare system works?
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Digitalis
Oldiesman ..
"wouldn't even help one of their own peole"
I was refering to a single mom with one child who gave above and beyond where many would have just found it an inconvenience. She loved to be with Gods people, to have good times with them, to help them in any way that was available to her.
As any single Mom knows, who has no family near her, situations arise. This woman generally never asked anyone for anything but fellowship. Long standing with ministry she was.
Catastrophe happened ......
There were peole who she fellowshipped with who helped her with all they had available and it was a blessing but current leadership for TWI did not. Secular groups donated to her ... we helped her ........ she got a new house built for her ... small but met the need for her and her son. In fact a non believer put his 5th wheel on her property so she and her son could live in it while the house was being built. She was staying with believers pryor to this for a short while.
The present leaders refused financial support of any kind. The present leaders didn't lift a finger to help either. She left TWI because even tho no financial support came, she dealt with it ... No leadership came to help either.
Jesus Christ washed the feet of his disciples.
IMO TWI felt the leaders should be served and many expected service from the people.
There were some who I do recall who were wonderful and really got involved in the daily activities of the people and shared their lives, knowledge and skills with them.
Digi
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def59
OM you posted April 28, 2004 16:55
"wouldn't even help one of their own people"
have lots of mixed feelings about this. on the one hand, you'd think they should've helped when there was a need; on the other, should ABS money be used like that? don't know...
What do you think ABS is for? Check the book of Acts again. We are to help each other when one is hurting. Ministering to each other goes beyond a class or a fellowship.
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Zshot
The Mormon Church welfare works very well.
I have seen them help many in time of need.
However, they do ask that you donate time to help others that are in need of assistance (if phyically able).
I am not, nor have I ever been Mormon. But, I was born and raised in Salt Lake City, Utah and had/have friends who are Mormon. I have also looked into the belief system of the Mormon Church.
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Mister P-Mosh
Not only that, but when you have to pay to take a class, which is held in a house that someone volunteers to use, where TWI pays for no materials but profits, then it's a scam. ABS is a black hole.
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rascal
Damn right the money should have been used to help believers oldies...what in the heck OTHER good could that money have done for God????
What is it you think God NEEDS with money ...other than for one to use it to help others in his name ???
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