The Schoenheit Paper

[Linda Z]

Aw shucks, DM, I almost never reprimand anyone. Just was tryin' to give you a heads-up that you might have misinterpreted what had been posted.

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[dmiller]

I thought I was the only one who said "Aw shucks" these days!

:D--> :D--> :D-->

[Refiner]

Hmm. Well there are some interesting posts in this thread.

Most noteable is the fact that two women have posted here that VPW put the hard word on them, and when it was apparent they were not interested, another woman entered the coach and gave them an excuse to leave.

It makes one think that they entered by prearranged signal.

[excathedra]

when i was on the motorcoach that time, it was traveling at speed of whatever down the highway.... with .... geer at the wheel

unfortuntely for me there was no one to interrupt

[excathedra]

quote:

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From what I've heard, there was a group of people in the corps who practiced these things secretly. It had to be secret, for everyone knows that adultery is sin, and if it got out that these rationalizations of adultery were being believed and promoted, the thing would have been exposed for what it was. That's why the Schoenheit paper (and Schoenheit) was shunned. What a mess.

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that was posted by oldiesman. what a mess.

[excathedra]

as far as schoenheit being a hero.... give me a break.... for goddsake

big deal he said adultery was a sin. ohmygod what revelation

you give me someone who understands the death of a soul, a human spirit (get it), and then maybe i'll think about the word "hero"

[JustThinking]

Refiner quote:

"Hmm. Well there are some interesting posts in this thread.

Most noteable is the fact that two women have posted here that VPW put the hard word on them, and when it was apparent they were not interested, another woman entered the coach and gave them an excuse to leave. It makes one think that they entered by prearranged signal"

Some people jump to conclusions. Some people take a massive leap with both eyes closed.

It does make one think that, you. No one else has voiced that view. Victims of serial predators often have similar stories because they are attacked by the SAME person. And we're talking about the head of a large organization. Is it possible that during the day time at the organizations headquarters, it just might be possible that people would need his attention? Could go a long way to explaining why he might be "surprised" by someone.

Odd that, of all things posted in this thread, you find that point most notable.

[excathedra]

JT in my humble opinion i think there is a miscommunication(understanding)

de ja vu (sp?)

[JustThinking]

Exie,

I think you are right.

Refiner,

It took reading it several times but I got Exie's point. Did you mean the women entering the coach? I took it to mean the posters entering this thread.

If was wrong, I apologize. In hindsight, I thought your comments were odd and very out of character. For the LOOOONG time we've known each other. :-) Again, I'm sorry if I misunderstood you.

JT

[Refiner]

Hey Exy. Its a damn good job you are here to assist me, otherwise Id be in real trouble I reckon.

JT.

It simply occurred to me that Wierwille had a prearranged signal that he would give, then someone would enter the room and provide an excuse for him to end embarrassing conversations.

It was only a thought.

I have no evil intents on this site JT and would not intentionally offend anyone here. After all, Im a guest at your party.

Im sure we will come to understand each other more as time passes.

[Refiner]

JT. I had to re read your post 6 times before I finally grasped what you were getting at.

I was sat there thinking "What have i said thats offended him" ??

I Couldnt see anything offensive for the life of me.

But I understand now.

I was talking about the women entering the coach entering by prearrangement.

Not the two posters in this thread.

:P-->

Thanks for saving me AGAIN exy.

[Refiner]

I understand posters being suspicious of a "blow in" (visitor) like myself.

I'll try to be more specific with what I post.

Im a lazy writer.

[Sunesis]

No, I don't think it was a prearranged signal to get someone out. The woman who came in was one of VP's "girls" - I thought it was more of a possible threesome that didn't happen.

With Mrs. VPW entering, she may have seen someone go in and decided to break it up. I know from other people, she hated what he was doing, and if she liked that person, possibly decided to intervene.

[JustThinking]

Refiner,

This is a cafe. No one lives here but Paw and he owns the place. The rest of us are all visitors. Glad you're here.

And, of course, it seems we both very glad that Exie is here. One week I want to flirt with her and the next she's my big sister keeping me out of trouble. Now if I could only get her to balance my (hopeless) checkbook... :-)

[JustThinking]

As I derailed it...

Does anyone know for sure if Mrs. W knew of her husband's (alleged) exploits? Did she ever comment on the topic of adultery?

Note: Please don't roast me on the "alleged" bit. All these threads on lawsuits have me paranoid.

[Goey]

quote:

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Note: Please don't roast me on the "alleged" bit. All these threads on lawsuits have me paranoid.

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I don't think you can be sued for what you say about a dead person.

[oldiesman]

quote:

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as far as schoenheit being a hero.... give me a break.... for goddsake

big deal he said adultery was a sin. ohmygod what revelation

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Yes, it was a big deal, in that situation. He had the gumption, the proverbial Intestinal Fortitude, to make an issue out of it. To be a pain in the butt, for a godly reason. He could have just ignored it and went his merry way, as so many apparently did.

[Tom Strange]

OM said:

quote:

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He could have just ignored it and went his merry way, as so many apparently did.

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Now OM... c'mon... in many cases it wasn't as simple as that... you've heard the testimonies of the coercion based upon fear of retribution...

[Goey]

quote:

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Yes, it was a big deal, in that situation. He had the gumption, the proverbial Intestinal Fortitude, to make an issue out of it. To be a pain in the butt, for a godly reason. He could have just ignored it and went his merry way, as so many apparently did.

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This says more about the state of mind of those that "went their merry way" than about Shoenheit being some kind of hero. He did what just about any half-fast Christian in their right mind should have done.

[ckeer]

Refiner no not every one was allowed at the table:

Here are two examples that I mentioned on anothe thread about how I saw sex handled in the field:

quote:

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In 1985 my soon to be wife was studing to be a massage thereapist. For practice and to bless a Corpse twig coordinator she gave him a massage. During the massage he took her hand and placed it on his genitals. She took her hand away and told him she was not giving that kind of massage. (massage school prepared them for that type of response) She finished the massage and told me about it and asked what I thought she should do, I asked my TC who was Corps how much slack you cut leadership where sex was concerned and he said none. I took my fiance to the branch Coord and she told him, he said he would take care of it but apparently nothing happened and then the whole passing of the patriarch came out and the fog years began.

Contrast that with the early 90's when my Branch Coord was relieved and hustled out of town because he had covered for a corpse brother who was single and sleeping with one of his twig members (I think they were in love but the pressure was on about having to go back into residence if you had a spouse corpse- so he probably figured he would be dfac if they married)

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Edited June 3, 2004 by ckeays

[waterbuffalo]

The subject on this thread regarding keeping improper sexual encounters secret reminds me of something Joyce Meyer said once at a live teaching I attended. She said her father was confronting her and Dave, her husband, about making his (her father's) abuse of her public knowledge. He also refused to admit he had done anything wrong.

So Dave wisely said to him, "Well then, if there's nothing wrong with what you did to her, then there's no reason to hide it, is there"?

And, with that, he could say nothing.

WB

Edited June 4, 2004 by waterbuffalo

[Lifted Up]

Oldies and Goey are both right about Schoenheit. Yes, he did just what he should have done, and yes it was a big deal in that environment.

Ex is right, too; we don't need to make him a big hero. But for that matter, I have seen no evidence that he considers himself as such. Let's just be thankful...to You Know Who...that he did it. Maybe he could have or should have done even more...I have a sneaking suspicion that may have something to do with Exxy's reply...but he didn't do what some others did...that is, nothing.

[Refiner]

How high up in the organization was Schoenheit when he wrote that paper?

[wyteduv58]

Not sure but I think he was in the research dept. All I know for sure is that he was way up the food chain.

[Refiner]

Thanks WyteD.

If he was at headquarters and in the church research department, Then I would suggest that he put everything on the line in expressing his views.He had plenty to lose.

Yeah, I think hes a hero. Maybe not a great big hero, but a hero none the less.