Remember, kids...you can hold only one thought in your mind at a time...

[CoolWaters]

Is this really correct?

I was thinking about this after I had posted two completely opposite reactions to the same situation...reactions that occurred at the same time.

On the one hand, the situation made (still makes) my skin crawl. On the other hand, I had to supress giggles over what was being said.

The spittle and rage made my skin crawl. The childish stupidity of the temper tantrum words coming from a grown man made me have gigglefits.

Being a parent and/or caretaker of little ones demands that a person "multi-task". Does multi-tasking infer more than one thought at the same time?

I know when I worked at Mickey D's I could take orders, make change and draw drinks all at the same time...and do it quickly and correctly.

When I worked for a very large wireless company taking repair and other customer service calls, I could take notes of the current call while I was writing notes of the last call.

Just something else that makes me go hmmmmm about twi teachings.

[oldiesman]

quote:

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When I worked for a very large wireless company taking repair and other customer service calls, I could take notes of the current call while I was writing notes of the last call.

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So that's why service is so bad hah? ;)-->

Nah, I prefer to be concentrating on one thought at a time, one item at a time, then when I'm finished with one, move onto the next. ...

:)-->

[CoolWaters]

quote:

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Originally posted by oldiesman:

So that's why service is so bad hah? ;)-->

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Maybe...hmmmm! ;)-->

Actually, I received the very first written customer commendation ever received in the call center where I worked. I also received over 300 Quality Awards, 3 trophies for Quality Performance, and many prizes for Quality Performance. All based upon customers who either wrote my supervisors with commendations or who asked for my supervisors on the phone after I had finished working with them on their account.

Some of the prizes I won were: a Sony Digital camcorder that takes still pictures as well as night pictures, has a built-in printer and, at the time I won the prize, was valued at $1200; 2 TVs; an all expenses paid and catered trip to a KC Royals game for me and hubby; a catered dinner and performance at a comedy club for me and hubby; and a catered dinner with a performance by an Elvis impersonator (who was terrific!).

[oldiesman]

Coolwaters, just think of how many more awards you would have won, doing just one thing at a time!

:)-->

[CoolWaters]

Like that would have been acceptable to my boss!

Part of QA was that we finished customer service calls in 4 minutes and repair calls in 9 minutes.

No way to do that without multi-tasking.

[CoolWaters]

But on the serious side of this topic...

If a computer can have several windows open at the same time and doing different things, why can't the mind?

[oldiesman]

Well, I'm not sure about this, but an old time Way believer once tried to prove to me that he could speak in tongues, and talk, at the same time. He was talking to me, and claiming he was speaking in tongues too, in his mind.

Don't know about this, but why should I want to speaking in tongues at the same time I speak English; why not just wait and do one thing wholeheartedly at a time?

:)-->

[CoolWaters]

Personl preferences are not the point here...you have yours, I have mine...arguing about them is without purpose, imo.

What I'm asking is whether there's any validity to the teaching that a person can hold only one thought in his/her mind at a time.

[Jim]

Good question.

I've thought about this a lot and I really don't know. I was explaining to my wife why I love Bach. His music often has 4, 5, 6 or more different melodic lines flowing at the same time and the real beauty and challenge is to be able to follow more than one of them at a time.

I can sometimes, but I'm never sure whether I'm following them in parallel or whether I'm task-switching between the different lines quickly.

Likewise, writing computer programs. Many times you sit there visualizing what's happening in the computer, with several different register values in your head so that you've got this picture of what should happen next. I can do it, but like a juggler, if I'm interrupted, everything falls on the floor and it takes a good while to build the picture again.

I have heard that in general, people can't hold more than three "contexts" in their head at one time. I suspect that the number varies greatly from person to person.

[socks]

Interesting question. I've kind of tossed the same ideas as you Jim, parallel vs/or task-switching. I've done some semi-measured tests musically where you listen and play what you're hearing as you hear it. What I tried was taking a spoken word piece of narration spoken at a moderate but not fast pace, and tried to play the tones of the spoken words as I heard them. I did it that way because although there's tonality to the voice, it's less variable than organized music and there's much less of an intuitive sense of what note may be coming next since it varies over and over again.

What I found was, at first it was like learning to walk all over again. But there's sort of a "middle" point in the mind where the listening and playing met. It flowed smoothly after awhile.

So I dunno. I like your example of a juggler, Jim. That's what it feels like, with long moments of cognizance of both things happening.

[socks]

Coolwaters, your window comparison is a good one I think, in that we do have that going all the time I think, and somewhat likea computer processor, although I think the computers-are-like-us comparison gets overdone in some circles.

Example - breathing, temperature control of our bodies, hearing, seeing, touch, all of these things can happen at the same time and our brain is collecting it and processing it at the same time. So I can be sitting down, breathing, sweating, go to stand up, feel a crik in my back, rub it and recognize someone walking up to me and say HI!, all at the same time. In effect, "I'M" doing it all at once, it's my body, my brain, my back.

Information is gathered from multiple sources, and recognized, all the time.

[pjroberge]

Coolwater:

It is a known scientific fact that men cannot mutitask. Just ask my wife

[excathedra]

this is a great topic, cool

at the moment, i can't find my car keys but i can think about that while i'm typing here

big mwah !!!!!

[krys]

Some things we do require thinking, others don't. We don't normally need to think when we walk so we can walk and talk. But - if you come across an obstacle, you stop talking until you've figured you way out of it.

When we practice a mechanical task, it can go on in the "background" like Cool's pouring drinks....and making change.

The reality is, we can only THINK one thought at a time...a thought doesn't mean walking or pouring drinks....it means thought - an "abstract" thing. I can sit here and type out what I think and have the TV on...and sorta follow the story line because the brain is quick to jump back and forth between the 2. However if I want to really watch and follow the program, I have to stop typing.

[johniam]

I think it may be impossible to FOCUS on more than one thing at a time, but everybody multi tasks. Consider LBJ's summation of Gerald Ford: that he couldn't march and chew gum at the same time. That wouldn't be funny if we couldn't multi task.

Whenever I'm driving and have to go between two objects (usually 2 parked cars) I first decide that I CAN make it safely between them. Then I focus on the driver's side and make sure I clear it by a few inches only, depending on just how tight the squeeze is. Ideally, I'd try to watch both sides of the car, but that's impossible, so the next best thing is the above mentioned formula. Haven't hit anything yet. That's why I say perhaps it's impossible to focus on 2 things at once.

[Jim]

Here's an interesting example. When my daughter was little, I'd read to her every night. After a while, I learned to read a few words ahead of what I was speaking. This would give me a chance to phrase and dramatize the text. Then after that, I found myself thinking about other things while I did the reading and speaking.

I also spent some time with a tv camera on my shoulder. I'd learn to keep the subject framed with my viewfinder eye and at the same time be aware of the big picture with my other eye. Then try walking, zooming and following focus all at the same time.

[krys]

What johniam calls FOCUS I think is the same thing as what I am calling THOUGHT

[Linda Z]

I've tested that premise, too, and I've come to the same conclusion as Krys. I think we can switch between thoughts/tasks very rapidly, but I've never been able to think two separate thoughts at once.

Even with the analogy of opening multiple windows, on a computer, think about how you do it. You open one at a time. Yes, you might "merge" in your mind what you're looking at in one window with what you're looking at in another, but one will be sorta "background"--or literally an extremely recent memory, while the other is the one you're focusing on.

[shazdancer]

Maybe the part of our mind that is rational/logical/analytical is limited to one part at a time, but there are definite parts that can track at once.

Example: You're typing out a response to a foodfight on chat, but typing to the rhythm of the music playing on the cd, with tears streaming down your face because your boyfriend called it quits last night. All different parts of the mind at work simultaneously, but on different levels.

The different levels tend to fuse together, like listening to a symphony: you can pay attention to one instrument apart from the others, or blend the sound of all the instruments in your mind to form an impression different from that made by any one instrument.

Regards,

Shaz

[Steve Lortz]

As the general tone of this thread suggests, I think the way a person would answer the question depends on how that person defines "thought", "mind" and "time".

If a thought is an electro-chemical process firing along a neuron pathway, then we've got a bazillion of them going on at any moment.

There are some skills, like driving a car with a manual transmission, that require an extraordinary amount of attention and thought during the learning process, but they become unconscious with practice.

Sometimes, a decision has to be made. Those are the times when holding two simultaneous thoughts gets difficult.

I think TWI's use of "you can't hold two thoughts in your mind at the same time" exhibited a grotesque degree of oversimplification, and was used to encourage group-think.

Love,

Steve

[oldiesman]

George Carlin can talk and burp at the same time.

:)-->

[CoolWaters]

Such awesome and thought-provoking posts!

Steve Lortz, such a great summation! In fact, I think your last sentence deserves honorable mention in the GS Gems!

I certainly hope there's more discussion to come on this topic...because you all make me stop and go hmmmmm, now there's a good point.

[Belle]

Ya know what's odd about this is that I remember being taught that now that during PFAL now that CW brings it up, but in TWI2, we were taught that if we were spiritually mature enough we could SIT all the time, even while we were talking, listening, making decisions, sitting in meetings at work, witnessing, etc.

We should, according to them, endeavor to be speaking in tongues all day and if we did it right, we would be able to carry out our normal activities at the same time because SIT functions in a separate part of the brain.

[My3Cents]

Depends what you mean by "at the same time." A computer multi-tasks by rapidly switching what it does between one open window or task and the next. Usually it's so much faster than a person's ability to interact with it (like typing) that it appears to be doing things simultaneously.

I don't believe for a minute that the human brain is as limited as a computer. But the MIND is not the brain so that adds another level of complextity.

I read somewhere about hypnosis that may be relevant. Turns out if you hypnotize someone and tell them their mother is Mr. Jones they will see and interact with mom as if she were him. Then if Mr. Jones walks in the room they won't have any problem with them both being the same person. So the mind must be able to do something like hold two thoughts at the same time.

I know a person can hold multiple emotions toward the same thing at the same time. Often when someone dies we feel sad, angry and even relieved all at once.

[excathedra]

right, don't we really only know about our conscious thought / mind ?