When I was still there, TWI had NO life at all. How could they? After you have enough "new" people horrified by the screaming forehead, lawsuits, old leaders that "disappear" overnight and constant turmoil, how do you stay "up?" You can't.
Unless you are delusional, one can't help but notice that the place is getting smaller and smaller and smaller...
AMEN! Sitting in a Branch meeting listening to a cheap, tinny speaker attached to a phone while standing up and applauding someone you couldn't see? A home meeting with a collection of rag-tag tired old grads? Pretty depressing.
I think one of the main reasons they do not witness anymore is because there are no results. It appears that no one comes. In our area we witnessed incessantly, and some of us were very good at it. Oddly, no one would show. If they did it was short lived. I think it is a combination of our culture has changed and the how easily information can be accessed about a group on the Internet.
By now, everybody with a computer has heard of the famous Google search technology. Go ahead, type in The Way International. At the top of the list is The Way's very green web site. Good job, Mr. Way webmaster. You meta-tagged yourself to the top of the list! All your problems are solved.
NOT!
Look over the right at the sponsored link, a letter from John Lynn exposing all the problems of The Way.
she is running away from this group as fast as she can!
In my opinion all they can do at this point is live in luxury off the millions they have and continue to be supported by the hard earned money of the few who still justify giving them a dime. The God business is good for those at the top.
I mean, the Word is Over the World, right? So, what's the point of witnessing?
Better yet, WHAT can they witness? It's no fun trying to promote a class that doesn't teach Biblical research or how to interpret the Bible, but one that's an embarassment! C'mon! I mean, the class, assuming they're running the films of LCM yacking his head off, is a farce! At least PFAL was more goal-oriented in how it was taught... it made it easier to witness it.
So, you're part of this shamful cult with no vision, a horrible past, lots of junk out about it on the internet, and an embarassing class to promote....
Yeah, if I was outside the walls of that "Zion", I'd be thanking my lucky stars I wasn't on the other side.
After the forehead was booted, the corps started "teaching" his class instead of the tapes. Ironically, they actually even pretended that it was the plan all along. What BS! Essentially, they sat behind a desk and read the silly-bus to the new students. No, really. How sad is that?
Another good TWI drinking game would have been to watch new students on a closed-circuit tv and down a shot every time two or more yawned at once. If you did it every time just one yawned, you would have died of alcohol poisoning. I sat through a few of those "classes" and they were PAINFUL! Arrgghhhh.....
You should have seen the teens doodling in the back. :-) And the old grads drooling in the front. Actually, the front seats were best because no one could see that your eyes were closed. (Free hint to lurking innies)
Another point is that many, many churches have been able to meet the spiritual needs of people much more than TWI ever dreamed of. Not just the spiritual needs, but the social needs as well.
When I got involved in TWI the churches weren't "doing their jobs". I remember hearing (according to VP) that the church buildings were empty 6 days a week - only used for Sunday services. That is not true of today's churches - at least around here.
The church we sometimes go to has a youth group, a mens bible study, a womens bible study, singles meetings, classes on basic Christianity, marriage, family, commitment, and much more. There's always something going on there - the parking lot always seems to be at least half full.
And as far as "outreach" goes: they build "Habitat for Humanity" houses and go to homeless shelters to feed the needy. They donate their time and efforts to several missions.
They don't HAVE to witness to get people to attend - it's just a natural extention of their good works and charity. Spiritually, the sermons are timely, thought-provoking and well done. Sure, there are doctrinal differences from what we were taught in TWI - but it's going to be that way with any other church or religious organization. TWI's doctrines were and are unique to them - and as far as I'm concerned - they can keep it all to themselves.
Oh - and another thing that changed in the past decade or so is that we were instructed to not witness to anyone unless they had their physical stuff together - no losers in TWI anymore - no weaknesses! See, they were trying to "weed out" the weakness in those who were already involved - so of course, no one who was weak to begin with was really welcome.
Most "non-loser" types who are well into their 40's have already become a part of a church or synagogue. They've raised their kids in them and contributed a lot of time and money to the denomination. Most are happy with their religious affiliations and aren't going to change for something that will offer them less than what they've already experienced.
So - when the equation is: good churches + good works + good pastors, people & programs - charity + no weakness allowed = no new people in TWI!
I know what my answer would be... "No thanks, no church with you..."
I think its pretty simple - they don't have a product to sell anymore.
If I were them, I'd hire a pro marketing co. and come up with pro looking classes to market that people aren't embarrassed to run and invite others to.
Hi Sunesis. Heck some of us zealous ones used to even witness in Emporia and got a few people in classes right from the local area, even with our busy 7th Corps schedules, remember that?
Another thing is they seem to have burned so may bridges with so many of us.
It literally became a closed door ministry rather than one that used to welcome ALL with open arms of love and kindness.
Could that have been so hard to do? If they (top leadership) weren't up for the task then they should have stepped aside and allowed others to do it.
Too late now, in my opinion. Sooooo much damage has been done.
If it were me I would close the doors, as when a company goes bankrupt. Reinvent the "business model" and open up under some other name or service.....with a different president and a different board.
"If it were me I would close the doors, as when a company goes bankrupt. Reinvent the "business model" and open up under some other name or service.....with a different president and a different board".
John, how could that ever happen, when it's the current President and Board of Directors that are the only ones in the position to bring that to pass? You KNOW Rosie and The BOD aren't about to walk away from their gravy train, slowing dwindling, though it may be.
There's no witnessing because people really are just tired and disillusioned. Terminal inertia has set in, and they really don't even believe their own party line anymore. Only passion spurs continued growth, and that died in The Way loooong ago.
And, when some of us youngsters came to twi..... there were very FEW old people in the ranks. With young and crazy and wild exuberance everywhere, we had the zeal to see the power of God in action.
Nowadays, there are just too many "know-it-alls" (50 year olds) and very little youth. Too much bureacracy, too much legalism.
And, when some of us youngsters came to twi..... there were very FEW old people in the ranks.
That, in and of itself, should have been a massive red flag warning us away from this group. Where were all the successful, satisfied grads from all the years Mr. Wierwille had been offering his class? Why weren't they the ones pushing and promoting this bible class? Why weren't they the ones giving the testimonials about how this established a positive attitude in their lives, promoted harmony in their homes, made their lives meaningful, yada yada yada?
(And, BTW, where was the lady that got the fire-engine-red drapes that VPW mentioned in PFAL? I would have liked to have heard that story from her personally. If she was so blessed, why didn't she stay with "the ministry"?)
"Too Soon Old, and Too Late Smart" - old Amish saying.
It should have been a massive red flag warning to NOT see lots of successful, satisfied grads standing alongside vpw. Only a handful...... and most were on the payroll.
Now, in the ranks of twi ...........there are scores of OLD, satisfied grads at hq. Are they successful? Doubt it. Are they on twi's payroll? Youbetcha. :D-->
Should send up another MASSIVE RED FLAG WARNING, shouldn't it?
The actual "ministry" may be shrinking and dying but twi's investments are doing just fine I imagine. With the multi millions that they have invested, they probably have a steady income for themselves. The "work of the Lord" is not really a major concern because of all the money secured during Veepee's hayday. I mean, how much was it? 44 million plus whatever they have in their "credit union"? Who owns all that dough? If it's just the members of the bod, I would say they are fairly "comfortable" without having to "Go, Stand and Speak", if you know what I mean. ;)-->
AMEN! Sitting in a Branch meeting listening to a cheap, tinny speaker attached to a phone while standing up and applauding someone you couldn't see? A home meeting with a collection of rag-tag tired old grads? Pretty depressing.
ROFLMAO!!! That is the epitomy of stupid, and I can't believe I did it: Standing and applauding at a frikkin phone hookup!
I left because of the humdrum boredom and residual LCM wannabe. That was back in 2002, and I haven't looked back since. I'm better for it.
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skyrider
In the past three years, I've crossed paths with MANY twi followers in the coffeeshops and supermarkets of the city. Some of them will visit with me for a couple of minutes, some won't. Several of t
DaddyHoundog
would you ?? Its definately a bad case of embarassment to say the least Wnw
Hope R.
Another point is that many, many churches have been able to meet the spiritual needs of people much more than TWI ever dreamed of. Not just the spiritual needs, but the social needs as well. When I
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JustThinking
(Having left less than two years ago...)
When I was still there, TWI had NO life at all. How could they? After you have enough "new" people horrified by the screaming forehead, lawsuits, old leaders that "disappear" overnight and constant turmoil, how do you stay "up?" You can't.
Unless you are delusional, one can't help but notice that the place is getting smaller and smaller and smaller...
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DaddyHoundog
would you ??
Its definately a bad case of embarassment to say the least
Wnw
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JustThinking
Daddy,
AMEN! Sitting in a Branch meeting listening to a cheap, tinny speaker attached to a phone while standing up and applauding someone you couldn't see? A home meeting with a collection of rag-tag tired old grads? Pretty depressing.
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igotout
I think one of the main reasons they do not witness anymore is because there are no results. It appears that no one comes. In our area we witnessed incessantly, and some of us were very good at it. Oddly, no one would show. If they did it was short lived. I think it is a combination of our culture has changed and the how easily information can be accessed about a group on the Internet.
By now, everybody with a computer has heard of the famous Google search technology. Go ahead, type in The Way International. At the top of the list is The Way's very green web site. Good job, Mr. Way webmaster. You meta-tagged yourself to the top of the list! All your problems are solved.
NOT!
Look over the right at the sponsored link, a letter from John Lynn exposing all the problems of The Way.
Letter from John Lynn
Look at the 4th, 5th, 6, and 7th links down. All detailed articles exposing The Way as a cult and very destructive. Here they are respectively:
Google search The Way International 1
Google search The Way International 2
Google search The Way International 3
Google search The Way International 4
Look at the 9th article down:
Google search The Way International 5
And that's just page 1.... where are the positive articles?. Where is anything good to be found about The Way International?
Hmmmm says the new recruit! Maybe on page 2....... here is the 2nd article down.
Desperate Google search page 2
And to the right in plain view is that letter from John again as a sponsored link.
By the time the new recruit get to the 6th article
Desperate Google search 2
she is running away from this group as fast as she can!
In my opinion all they can do at this point is live in luxury off the millions they have and continue to be supported by the hard earned money of the few who still justify giving them a dime. The God business is good for those at the top.
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ChasUFarley
What is their "vision" these days?
I mean, the Word is Over the World, right? So, what's the point of witnessing?
Better yet, WHAT can they witness? It's no fun trying to promote a class that doesn't teach Biblical research or how to interpret the Bible, but one that's an embarassment! C'mon! I mean, the class, assuming they're running the films of LCM yacking his head off, is a farce! At least PFAL was more goal-oriented in how it was taught... it made it easier to witness it.
So, you're part of this shamful cult with no vision, a horrible past, lots of junk out about it on the internet, and an embarassing class to promote....
Yeah, if I was outside the walls of that "Zion", I'd be thanking my lucky stars I wasn't on the other side.
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JustThinking
Chas,
After the forehead was booted, the corps started "teaching" his class instead of the tapes. Ironically, they actually even pretended that it was the plan all along. What BS! Essentially, they sat behind a desk and read the silly-bus to the new students. No, really. How sad is that?
Another good TWI drinking game would have been to watch new students on a closed-circuit tv and down a shot every time two or more yawned at once. If you did it every time just one yawned, you would have died of alcohol poisoning. I sat through a few of those "classes" and they were PAINFUL! Arrgghhhh.....
You should have seen the teens doodling in the back. :-) And the old grads drooling in the front. Actually, the front seats were best because no one could see that your eyes were closed. (Free hint to lurking innies)
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Hope R.
Another point is that many, many churches have been able to meet the spiritual needs of people much more than TWI ever dreamed of. Not just the spiritual needs, but the social needs as well.
When I got involved in TWI the churches weren't "doing their jobs". I remember hearing (according to VP) that the church buildings were empty 6 days a week - only used for Sunday services. That is not true of today's churches - at least around here.
The church we sometimes go to has a youth group, a mens bible study, a womens bible study, singles meetings, classes on basic Christianity, marriage, family, commitment, and much more. There's always something going on there - the parking lot always seems to be at least half full.
And as far as "outreach" goes: they build "Habitat for Humanity" houses and go to homeless shelters to feed the needy. They donate their time and efforts to several missions.
They don't HAVE to witness to get people to attend - it's just a natural extention of their good works and charity. Spiritually, the sermons are timely, thought-provoking and well done. Sure, there are doctrinal differences from what we were taught in TWI - but it's going to be that way with any other church or religious organization. TWI's doctrines were and are unique to them - and as far as I'm concerned - they can keep it all to themselves.
Oh - and another thing that changed in the past decade or so is that we were instructed to not witness to anyone unless they had their physical stuff together - no losers in TWI anymore - no weaknesses! See, they were trying to "weed out" the weakness in those who were already involved - so of course, no one who was weak to begin with was really welcome.
Most "non-loser" types who are well into their 40's have already become a part of a church or synagogue. They've raised their kids in them and contributed a lot of time and money to the denomination. Most are happy with their religious affiliations and aren't going to change for something that will offer them less than what they've already experienced.
So - when the equation is: good churches + good works + good pastors, people & programs - charity + no weakness allowed = no new people in TWI!
I know what my answer would be... "No thanks, no church with you..."
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skyrider
igotout,
Thanks for posting these links.
Those who are EXITING twi need this type of confirmation. It just puts more exclamation marks behind their reasons for leaving.
Yep......I know families who, in the past month, escaped from wayworld.
skyrider
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Kevlar2000
I know this has been said before, and maybe I'm just stating the obvious, but...
People won't promote what they don't believe in.
And The Way hasn't given anyone anything to believe in for a long, long time.
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Sunesis
I think its pretty simple - they don't have a product to sell anymore.
If I were them, I'd hire a pro marketing co. and come up with pro looking classes to market that people aren't embarrassed to run and invite others to.
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igotout
Hi Sunesis. Heck some of us zealous ones used to even witness in Emporia and got a few people in classes right from the local area, even with our busy 7th Corps schedules, remember that?
Another thing is they seem to have burned so may bridges with so many of us.
It literally became a closed door ministry rather than one that used to welcome ALL with open arms of love and kindness.
Could that have been so hard to do? If they (top leadership) weren't up for the task then they should have stepped aside and allowed others to do it.
Too late now, in my opinion. Sooooo much damage has been done.
If it were me I would close the doors, as when a company goes bankrupt. Reinvent the "business model" and open up under some other name or service.....with a different president and a different board.
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Cherished Child
"If it were me I would close the doors, as when a company goes bankrupt. Reinvent the "business model" and open up under some other name or service.....with a different president and a different board".
John, how could that ever happen, when it's the current President and Board of Directors that are the only ones in the position to bring that to pass? You KNOW Rosie and The BOD aren't about to walk away from their gravy train, slowing dwindling, though it may be.
There's no witnessing because people really are just tired and disillusioned. Terminal inertia has set in, and they really don't even believe their own party line anymore. Only passion spurs continued growth, and that died in The Way loooong ago.
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Ham
And by the time Rosie is gone, the younger part of the group that is left will be just as old, evil and inept..
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skyrider
And, when some of us youngsters came to twi..... there were very FEW old people in the ranks. With young and crazy and wild exuberance everywhere, we had the zeal to see the power of God in action.
Nowadays, there are just too many "know-it-alls" (50 year olds) and very little youth. Too much bureacracy, too much legalism.
Twi is dying of old age.
:D-->
skyrider
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Kevlar2000
That, in and of itself, should have been a massive red flag warning us away from this group. Where were all the successful, satisfied grads from all the years Mr. Wierwille had been offering his class? Why weren't they the ones pushing and promoting this bible class? Why weren't they the ones giving the testimonials about how this established a positive attitude in their lives, promoted harmony in their homes, made their lives meaningful, yada yada yada?
(And, BTW, where was the lady that got the fire-engine-red drapes that VPW mentioned in PFAL? I would have liked to have heard that story from her personally. If she was so blessed, why didn't she stay with "the ministry"?)
"Too Soon Old, and Too Late Smart" - old Amish saying.
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skyrider
Kevlar2000,
I agree with you.
:)-->
It should have been a massive red flag warning to NOT see lots of successful, satisfied grads standing alongside vpw. Only a handful...... and most were on the payroll.
Now, in the ranks of twi ...........there are scores of OLD, satisfied grads at hq. Are they successful? Doubt it. Are they on twi's payroll? Youbetcha.
:D-->
Should send up another MASSIVE RED FLAG WARNING, shouldn't it?
skyrider
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igotout
Quote: "TWI is dying of old age"
So funny,
..thanks for providing some humor after a long week.
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GrouchoMarxJr
The actual "ministry" may be shrinking and dying but twi's investments are doing just fine I imagine. With the multi millions that they have invested, they probably have a steady income for themselves. The "work of the Lord" is not really a major concern because of all the money secured during Veepee's hayday. I mean, how much was it? 44 million plus whatever they have in their "credit union"? Who owns all that dough? If it's just the members of the bod, I would say they are fairly "comfortable" without having to "Go, Stand and Speak", if you know what I mean.
;)-->
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skyrider
Rosalie and Donna are more comfortable with..... "Go, Shop and Spend" at all the stores in this life.
skyrider
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waysider
The buggy whip market has tanked.
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JustThinking
Does that mean TWI closed shop?!!!
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waysider
No. It just means they have a product that is no longer wanted or needed. Now, of course, if their product was both wanted AND needed------
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Ham
but.. but.. these aren't ordinary buggy whips. They are the latest edition, prevailing, more than abundant life whips..
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Nottawayfer
ROFLMAO!!! That is the epitomy of stupid, and I can't believe I did it: Standing and applauding at a frikkin phone hookup!
I left because of the humdrum boredom and residual LCM wannabe. That was back in 2002, and I haven't looked back since. I'm better for it.
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