I think that he was just plain ole jealous of the attention anyone got if it took the spot light off of him for even the minutest of seconds...(I think that it stung that nobody apreciated HIS artistic endeavors)...so must make the music bland and boring...
If folks were enjoying the music ....it would steal some of his thunder...I think thats why he cancelled roa..canned the original classes...books by other authors... n other programs...He just couldn`t measure up...people weren`t looking at/talking about him.
It really was a problem for TWI into the early 90s. The "old wine skin" teaching was not just used on old VPW stuff. Music was a BIG focus too. Branded tapes, etc. were pushed off the radar. When Dave Lutz and two others guys came out with the first new tape in years (late 80s, early 90s?) they played it to death. We were told clearly "there is no reason to play that old stuff any more. It only hurts people's hearts." The implication being that we all missed these performers or it brought up bad memories.
"Sing It, Dave!" came out in the early-mid-90's, but that was the last album that was released from an individual. After that it was all "Singing Ladies of The Way" and other Way Productions type albums. I don't think Mike Martin ever released an album of his own - I remember he sort of was lumped in with the "Singing Ladies". Then again, I don't think anyone could have stomached a whole album of his work - it would have been like listening to just Alvin Chipmonk for 45 minutes - no thanks!
The "no more individuals" rule was more to purge the ministry of things done by people who had left that were still being utilized by those who were in. LCM wanted NOTHING of it. He changed the songs in the "Sing Along The Way" book, sent out long lists of Sunday Teaching Service tapes and Way Mags that needed to be distroyed from the limb library, and even art work that was done by those who were no longer standing with the ministry were taken off the walls and out of the bookstores.
Interestingly enough, the whole push to the emphasis on the HOUSEHOLD was being sold to the innies. It wasn't so much about who you were to God any more or your sonship, but the household - almost a hive-like mentality. This type of thinking is typical of cults - and it certainly was used by TWI to the point where members were told they would DIE - no exaggeration - if they left the safety of the household.
quote:I don't think anyone could have stomached a whole album of his work - it would have been like listening to just Alvin Chipmonk for 45 minutes - no thanks!
:D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D-->
Chas, you are too funny! and that comment is too true!
They quit even recording CDs of the same boring songs. Now they just take the songs straight from the services and mesh them into an album. How pathetic! "Singing Ladies of The Way - LIVE!!" OOOOHHHHhhh that sounds exciting....NOT!
This may be comparing apples and raisins, but a chorale/group gang that I really like is "Hillsongs" out of Autstralia. Darlene Zschech is the soloist/leader behind the music of this church, although they've branched out in to a number of groups and soloists. Darlene kicks some serious musical buttt. "Shout to the Lord" is probably her best known Christian song.
In contrast to the Weigh's current music, here's the lyric to a Hillsongs tune "Free to Dance". This song bops at a nice clip, a rock/pop kind of thing. It contains a lot of quotable quotes, stuff that sounds familiar, but the message is one of joyous celebration. And these guys can celebrate their faith. We've seen them, and my daughter's been down to Australia twice for their summer music programs. We're not members, just appreciators. I feel like these guys are the Real Deal, they mean it and they're doin' it. There's a lot of Real Deal's out there, just waiting to be heard. :)-->
"Free to Dance"
This song in my heart, this song in my soul
This song I was born to sing
It's Your song of freedom, now I'm free to dance again.
I'll sing in the darkness, I'll laugh in the rain
Rejoice in Your love again.
It's Your song of freedom, now I'm free to dance again
Your Spirit brings me liberty
Your breath of life has set me free
Chorus:
Jesus, Your love, it lifts me high
Gives me reason to run this race with joy
This song within me, Lord, will bless Your Holy name.
Jesus, I'll dance before Your throne
Bring this heavenly sound to You alone
This song within me. Lord, will bless Your Holy name!
IMO it seemed like individuality within twi was replaced by groupthink, groupspeak, groupdo at about PFAL '77 time.
I strongly fault vpw for this downward spiraling. One of the cornerstones in the pfal class was "Christ in you, Christ in you, Christ in you....the hope of glory." Each member in particular was unique, special, honored, valued.
But wait....as the numbers grew, vpw's agenda of control grew hair!!! The corps numbers were multiplying and these folks went out and did the bidding of wierwille's plan of "word over the world." More numbers, more corps, more control.......and less individuality.
Seems like vpw, and later lcm, were intoxicated with their own pride and stumbled at several major crossroads. Why couldn't these "mogs" see what many others were seeing? So much for the mog's indepth spiritual perception and awareness.
At the rate twi continues to slide into groupdom........soon, a twi follower won't be able to go to the corner store without his twig walking with him. :D--> :P-->
'Then again, I don't think anyone could have stomached a whole album of his work - it would have been like listening to just Alvin Chipmonk for 45 minutes - no thanks!'
Years ago, before TWI, Mike Martin was a rockin' lead singer in a hot local band. I don't remember the whole nasal thing back then. But then, he wasn't singing ballads, either. Or what ever you call that way stuff.
But, like everything else in TWI, it seems, he was pushed into a mold that didn't showcase his true talents.
Another one of those spiral-downwards-into-crap deals so characteristic of the TWI I knew.
You couldn't have the spirit of God working in individual believers, what chaos! Why, what would the body of Christ be then? An arm over here, a leg over there, everyone contributing differently....
I love Hillsongs, too. And check out Chris Tomlin, our old worship/youth pastor is now a musician with a real record deal. :)--> Always like that.
But I think Jesus got marked and avoided by TWI a long time ago, so the fabulous worship music that's out there will pass them by, unfortunately...... :(-->
"At the rate twi continues to slide into groupdom........soon, a twi follower won't be able to go to the corner store without his twig walking with him"
Funny you should mention it. In the early 90s, Craig got all excited about the number "two." He used Ecclesiastes 4:9-12 a lot.
9Â Â Â Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour.
10Â Â Â For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.
11Â Â Â Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone?
12Â Â Â And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.
Typical LCM, it got taken to bizarre extremes. I actually saw our BC take someone to task because they had witnessed to a new person by themselves. What were they to do, ask them to wait there to "help" arrived? It was viewed as "well, it worked this time but..."
Later, during the scheduling nazi era, this went even deeper. People were directed to schedule activities with another Wayfer whenever possible. Grocery shopping, getting your car's oil changed, whatever. ANYTHING at all.
"People simply disappeared, always during the night. Your name was removed from the registers, every record of everything you had ever done was wiped out, your one-time existence was denied and then forgotten. You were abolished, annihilated: vaporized was the usual word."Â
"If the party could thrust its hand into the past and say this or that even, it never happened—that, surely, was more terrifying than mere torture and death."
"And if all others accepted the lie which the party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'"Â
"Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. In this way every prediction made by the Party could be shown by documentary evidence to have been correct; nor was any item of news, or any expression of opinion, which conflicted with the needs of the moment, ever allowed to remain on record. All history was a palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary."Â
Previous posts about TWI-2? Nope, they are from from George Orwell's 1984. Unfortunately, the word "party" kind of gives it away.
Catcup,
There never was an overemphasis on two-by-two. That is a lie from our enemies who are fronts for the adversary. We simply wanted to build the quality of the Word into our peoples lives by helping them see the greatness of the Word in this category.
Don't you see? We haven't changed. The Word doesn't change. You have changed because you no longer hold to the Sure & FaithFul Word you were taught. You are the problem. If it weren't for this principle, our people could be tripped up by stumblingblocks like you.
Orwell, Martindale. Kind of sounds the same to me.
That's creepy, JT. Some people have said Animal Farm also has quite a few parallels to TWIt-ville. I guess I need to get out these old classics and revisit them.
I think of Brave New World being where TWI would take things if it was up to them. No sex for the "spiritually immature" and reproduction only by schedule in test tubes with approved DNA qualities, specific classifications of people and social status with no chance to change.
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ex70sHouston
Any bets on how hard hes trying to get back in control.
But to answer the question. You just explained one of the many reasons were here and there still TWIsted
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rascal
I think that he was just plain ole jealous of the attention anyone got if it took the spot light off of him for even the minutest of seconds...(I think that it stung that nobody apreciated HIS artistic endeavors)...so must make the music bland and boring...
If folks were enjoying the music ....it would steal some of his thunder...I think thats why he cancelled roa..canned the original classes...books by other authors... n other programs...He just couldn`t measure up...people weren`t looking at/talking about him.
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JustThinking
It really was a problem for TWI into the early 90s. The "old wine skin" teaching was not just used on old VPW stuff. Music was a BIG focus too. Branded tapes, etc. were pushed off the radar. When Dave Lutz and two others guys came out with the first new tape in years (late 80s, early 90s?) they played it to death. We were told clearly "there is no reason to play that old stuff any more. It only hurts people's hearts." The implication being that we all missed these performers or it brought up bad memories.
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JustThinking
ex70s,
"Any bets on how hard hes trying to get back in control."
I have no doubt. Without TWI, he is a nobody. What else does he have?
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ChasUFarley
"Sing It, Dave!" came out in the early-mid-90's, but that was the last album that was released from an individual. After that it was all "Singing Ladies of The Way" and other Way Productions type albums. I don't think Mike Martin ever released an album of his own - I remember he sort of was lumped in with the "Singing Ladies". Then again, I don't think anyone could have stomached a whole album of his work - it would have been like listening to just Alvin Chipmonk for 45 minutes - no thanks!
The "no more individuals" rule was more to purge the ministry of things done by people who had left that were still being utilized by those who were in. LCM wanted NOTHING of it. He changed the songs in the "Sing Along The Way" book, sent out long lists of Sunday Teaching Service tapes and Way Mags that needed to be distroyed from the limb library, and even art work that was done by those who were no longer standing with the ministry were taken off the walls and out of the bookstores.
Interestingly enough, the whole push to the emphasis on the HOUSEHOLD was being sold to the innies. It wasn't so much about who you were to God any more or your sonship, but the household - almost a hive-like mentality. This type of thinking is typical of cults - and it certainly was used by TWI to the point where members were told they would DIE - no exaggeration - if they left the safety of the household.
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JustThinking
Chas,
I forgot about "Sing it Dave." Thank you.
Mike Martin did not put out a CD of his own.
"Alvin Chipmonk?"
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Belle
Chas, you are too funny! and that comment is too true!
They quit even recording CDs of the same boring songs. Now they just take the songs straight from the services and mesh them into an album. How pathetic! "Singing Ladies of The Way - LIVE!!" OOOOHHHHhhh that sounds exciting....NOT!
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socks
This may be comparing apples and raisins, but a chorale/group gang that I really like is "Hillsongs" out of Autstralia. Darlene Zschech is the soloist/leader behind the music of this church, although they've branched out in to a number of groups and soloists. Darlene kicks some serious musical buttt. "Shout to the Lord" is probably her best known Christian song.
In contrast to the Weigh's current music, here's the lyric to a Hillsongs tune "Free to Dance". This song bops at a nice clip, a rock/pop kind of thing. It contains a lot of quotable quotes, stuff that sounds familiar, but the message is one of joyous celebration. And these guys can celebrate their faith. We've seen them, and my daughter's been down to Australia twice for their summer music programs. We're not members, just appreciators. I feel like these guys are the Real Deal, they mean it and they're doin' it. There's a lot of Real Deal's out there, just waiting to be heard.
:)-->
"Free to Dance"
This song in my heart, this song in my soul
This song I was born to sing
It's Your song of freedom, now I'm free to dance again.
I'll sing in the darkness, I'll laugh in the rain
Rejoice in Your love again.
It's Your song of freedom, now I'm free to dance again
Your Spirit brings me liberty
Your breath of life has set me free
Chorus:
Jesus, Your love, it lifts me high
Gives me reason to run this race with joy
This song within me, Lord, will bless Your Holy name.
Jesus, I'll dance before Your throne
Bring this heavenly sound to You alone
This song within me. Lord, will bless Your Holy name!
Dance?
Dance.
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skyrider
Regarding individuality......
IMO it seemed like individuality within twi was replaced by groupthink, groupspeak, groupdo at about PFAL '77 time.
I strongly fault vpw for this downward spiraling. One of the cornerstones in the pfal class was "Christ in you, Christ in you, Christ in you....the hope of glory." Each member in particular was unique, special, honored, valued.
But wait....as the numbers grew, vpw's agenda of control grew hair!!! The corps numbers were multiplying and these folks went out and did the bidding of wierwille's plan of "word over the world." More numbers, more corps, more control.......and less individuality.
Seems like vpw, and later lcm, were intoxicated with their own pride and stumbled at several major crossroads. Why couldn't these "mogs" see what many others were seeing? So much for the mog's indepth spiritual perception and awareness.
At the rate twi continues to slide into groupdom........soon, a twi follower won't be able to go to the corner store without his twig walking with him.
:D--> 
:P-->
skyrider
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Bramble
'Then again, I don't think anyone could have stomached a whole album of his work - it would have been like listening to just Alvin Chipmonk for 45 minutes - no thanks!'
Years ago, before TWI, Mike Martin was a rockin' lead singer in a hot local band. I don't remember the whole nasal thing back then. But then, he wasn't singing ballads, either. Or what ever you call that way stuff.
But, like everything else in TWI, it seems, he was pushed into a mold that didn't showcase his true talents.
Another one of those spiral-downwards-into-crap deals so characteristic of the TWI I knew.
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shazdancer
I hear you, skyrider.
You couldn't have the spirit of God working in individual believers, what chaos! Why, what would the body of Christ be then? An arm over here, a leg over there, everyone contributing differently....
They needed the whole body to be an eye.
Shaz
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learning
Didn't Harvey play with that Acts group at one time?
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rascal
Dunno learning, s`far as I recall, the only group I can remember him in is Branded.
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Oakspear
Harve was in Branded - he actually taught my twig when they were on some kind of tour in 1981 or 82.
He was also the guitarist for the TWI "house band" that included Dave L, Fred G on bass Anthony H on drums and sometimes Mike M.
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ex10
socks
I love Hillsongs, too. And check out Chris Tomlin, our old worship/youth pastor is now a musician with a real record deal.
:)--> Always like that.
But I think Jesus got marked and avoided by TWI a long time ago, so the fabulous worship music that's out there will pass them by, unfortunately......
:(-->
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WhiteDove
Didn't he play in the short lived group Made in America.
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JustThinking
skyrider quote:
"At the rate twi continues to slide into groupdom........soon, a twi follower won't be able to go to the corner store without his twig walking with him"
Funny you should mention it. In the early 90s, Craig got all excited about the number "two." He used Ecclesiastes 4:9-12 a lot.
9Â Â Â Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour.
10Â Â Â For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.
11Â Â Â Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone?
12Â Â Â And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.
Typical LCM, it got taken to bizarre extremes. I actually saw our BC take someone to task because they had witnessed to a new person by themselves. What were they to do, ask them to wait there to "help" arrived? It was viewed as "well, it worked this time but..."
Later, during the scheduling nazi era, this went even deeper. People were directed to schedule activities with another Wayfer whenever possible. Grocery shopping, getting your car's oil changed, whatever. ANYTHING at all.
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Catcup
The fear TWI used to control people was especially obvious during this era where people had to travel in twos to do ANYTHING.
Have they loosened up on that bit yet? And if so, how do they justify the change?
And I can't imagine THINKING people not questioning the change.
I guess so much for THINKING people left still in TWI.
They're plain too SCARED to think.
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JustThinking
See if these sound familiar:
"People simply disappeared, always during the night. Your name was removed from the registers, every record of everything you had ever done was wiped out, your one-time existence was denied and then forgotten. You were abolished, annihilated: vaporized was the usual word."Â
"If the party could thrust its hand into the past and say this or that even, it never happened—that, surely, was more terrifying than mere torture and death."
"And if all others accepted the lie which the party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'"Â
"Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. In this way every prediction made by the Party could be shown by documentary evidence to have been correct; nor was any item of news, or any expression of opinion, which conflicted with the needs of the moment, ever allowed to remain on record. All history was a palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary."Â
Previous posts about TWI-2? Nope, they are from from George Orwell's 1984. Unfortunately, the word "party" kind of gives it away.
Catcup,
There never was an overemphasis on two-by-two. That is a lie from our enemies who are fronts for the adversary. We simply wanted to build the quality of the Word into our peoples lives by helping them see the greatness of the Word in this category.
Don't you see? We haven't changed. The Word doesn't change. You have changed because you no longer hold to the Sure & FaithFul Word you were taught. You are the problem. If it weren't for this principle, our people could be tripped up by stumblingblocks like you.
Orwell, Martindale. Kind of sounds the same to me.
JT
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Belle
That's creepy, JT. Some people have said Animal Farm also has quite a few parallels to TWIt-ville. I guess I need to get out these old classics and revisit them.
I think of Brave New World being where TWI would take things if it was up to them. No sex for the "spiritually immature" and reproduction only by schedule in test tubes with approved DNA qualities, specific classifications of people and social status with no chance to change.
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