hoo boy, I don't even want to think about first thought... was that my first thought?
Like somebody said, WHERE IS the first thought?
First thought starting when?
I was so glad to get out and just start trying to use my brain to figure things out best I could and not worry about "revelation".
I told God, Hey you wanna tell me something, you're gonna have to scream it at me because I'm just sick of trying to figure out if you're telling me anything. So maybe He does, maybe He doesn't, he11 if I know.
quote:I told God, Hey you wanna tell me something, you're gonna have to scream it at me because I'm just sick of trying to figure out if you're telling me anything. So maybe He does, maybe He doesn't, he11 if I know.
...OK, so I reach up into the damn cookie jar and then what?...maybe you get it, maybe you don't?...I STILL have a first thought...How am I supposed to tell the difference as to whether the cookie jar was empty or there was a "goodie" in there for me? I have no problem telling the difference between my own thoughts and somebody else talking to me...I imagine that if God were to speak to me, I shouldn't have any problems telling the difference between God talking and my own thoughts!...
A cult that has people second guessing as to whether their own thoughts are really their own...or are coming in from another source... --> Reminds me of an Xmen episode...
In the later Martindale years the teaching was that God would tell you in a way that you would be sure that it was him. That makes sense, but the only way most people "knew" it was God talking to them was if the "revelation" came true, if it didn't, well, it wasn't God. But there still wasn't a clear-cut way to tell ahead of time whether it was revelation or not
...And wierwille's original teaching on it was that revelation meant "to receive for a certainty"...sounds good in the classroom but a little tricky out there in "the field".
When you think about it, the guys who got the top jobs were the ones who put on the best act...
I just have to say it since I don't get to swear too much around here......lmao (means laughing my foot off or if that doesn't show up then its laughing my arse off.... :P-->)
Some of these guys put on such a good show that they were receiving "heavy revy" from God, and if you weren't getting it, you could easily feel like you were missing it.
Or the idiots who would constantly be walking around saying how "Father told me this" and "Father told me that". Asking "Father" what way to turn at an intersection, what to have for dinner...aaaaauuuuugggggghhhhhhhhhhhh
We were traveling in a 13 car caravan from seattle up through canada to the ROA. The guy that was leading the caravan had a meeting and told us he got heavy revy when he was taking a dump...great revelation, huh?
quote: We were traveling in a 13 car caravan from seattle up through canada to the ROA. The guy that was leading the caravan had a meeting and told us he got heavy revy when he was taking a dump...great revelation, huh?
Whadda-man-of-god!!
I'm guessing his *heavy revy* was somehow distinguishable from the stuff he flushed, eh? :D--> :P--> :D-->
Ex10...Yes, I do remember when JAL apologized for teaching "first thought"...and a lot of other things too.
"Leaders" who acted spiritual...that should be a thread itself...I think about it now and I laugh...how they would pace around with a wrinkled brow, and then suddenly...ZAP! The revy has arrived! That knowing look, that confident bounce in their steps, that title on their nametag...scheeesh, we shoulda handed out Oscars.
Remember how Grifter Vic would say..."My earthly father can do a better job than that!"...
Well how about revelation? When my dad would speak to me, he had the uncanny ability to distinguish himself from my own thoughts...never once, when he spoke to me, did I ever wonder..."Is that my dad talking or is it just my own thought?" Imagine that.
...But the cornfield preacher convinced everybody that when the creator of the heaven and earth speaks to us, it comes in a the form resembling our own thoughts...how convieeeeeenient.
When I left twi, I vowed to never again PRETEND that God was speaking to me...When ANYBODY speaks to me, determining the source of the speaker has never been a problem...All Wierwille did was confuse people with his catch 22 parlor games.
LOL, Unca Hairy, I made the same kind of pact with God, telling Him He would have to hit me over the head with revelation if He wanted to give me any, 'cuz I needed to know it was Him and not me.
I can recall Wierwille saying things at the Rock as well, saying that God had showed him who the government agents were in the audience, stuff like that. Made us all kinda go "ooh, wow, heavy stuff" and look around. 'Course, such an admission flew in the face of all he'd taught about revelation (what's the profit? and don't go around blabbing about what God told you), but principles never stopped a grifter from wowing a crowd.
Interesting... I was a "government agent" at the time I was in TWI. Just so you don't get the wrong idea, I was not an investigator, nor was I investigating the ministry (or anyone/thing else for that matter). Could be that VPW was "detecting" people like me (I never met VPW). Just happened that I was a cihpargotpyrc tech for for the NSA at the time.
VP never said that these "government agents" were investigators, did he? :o--> Didn't think so. :)-->
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socks
*snap snap* Someday you're not gonna remember this stuff *snap snap* so write eet down. You got that? *snap snap*
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Raf
It came from Wierwille.
He did not repudiate it.
It was his false doctrine.
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outandabout
hoo boy, I don't even want to think about first thought... was that my first thought?
Like somebody said, WHERE IS the first thought?
First thought starting when?
I was so glad to get out and just start trying to use my brain to figure things out best I could and not worry about "revelation".
I told God, Hey you wanna tell me something, you're gonna have to scream it at me because I'm just sick of trying to figure out if you're telling me anything. So maybe He does, maybe He doesn't, he11 if I know.
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excathedra
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GrouchoMarxJr
...OK, so I reach up into the damn cookie jar and then what?...maybe you get it, maybe you don't?...I STILL have a first thought...How am I supposed to tell the difference as to whether the cookie jar was empty or there was a "goodie" in there for me? I have no problem telling the difference between my own thoughts and somebody else talking to me...I imagine that if God were to speak to me, I shouldn't have any problems telling the difference between God talking and my own thoughts!...
A cult that has people second guessing as to whether their own thoughts are really their own...or are coming in from another source...
--> Reminds me of an Xmen episode...
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Oakspear
In the later Martindale years the teaching was that God would tell you in a way that you would be sure that it was him. That makes sense, but the only way most people "knew" it was God talking to them was if the "revelation" came true, if it didn't, well, it wasn't God. But there still wasn't a clear-cut way to tell ahead of time whether it was revelation or not
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GrouchoMarxJr
...And wierwille's original teaching on it was that revelation meant "to receive for a certainty"...sounds good in the classroom but a little tricky out there in "the field".
When you think about it, the guys who got the top jobs were the ones who put on the best act...
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vickles
I just have to say it since I don't get to swear too much around here......lmao (means laughing my foot off or if that doesn't show up then its laughing my arse off....
:P-->)
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outandabout
You're funny, ex. Wasn't sure what "Imao" meant, then I realized it was LMAO..
ha ha ha me too
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Oakspear
Oh, hell yeah, Uncle H, hell yeah.
Some of these guys put on such a good show that they were receiving "heavy revy" from God, and if you weren't getting it, you could easily feel like you were missing it.
Or the idiots who would constantly be walking around saying how "Father told me this" and "Father told me that". Asking "Father" what way to turn at an intersection, what to have for dinner...aaaaauuuuugggggghhhhhhhhhhhh
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outandabout
What to have for dinner???!!!! Like is God going to eat it???
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vickles
Do you remember this suz?
We were traveling in a 13 car caravan from seattle up through canada to the ROA. The guy that was leading the caravan had a meeting and told us he got heavy revy when he was taking a dump...great revelation, huh?
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dmiller
Whadda-man-of-god!!
I'm guessing his *heavy revy* was somehow distinguishable from the stuff he flushed, eh?
:D--> 
:P--> 
:D-->
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vickles
LOLOLOL that is a good one david...hehe
Actually, I don't remember exactly what he said but it was just as good as flushing down the toilet....rubbish thats what it was, just rubbish....
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GrouchoMarxJr
Ex10...Yes, I do remember when JAL apologized for teaching "first thought"...and a lot of other things too.
"Leaders" who acted spiritual...that should be a thread itself...I think about it now and I laugh...how they would pace around with a wrinkled brow, and then suddenly...ZAP! The revy has arrived! That knowing look, that confident bounce in their steps, that title on their nametag...scheeesh, we shoulda handed out Oscars.
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excathedra
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GrouchoMarxJr
Remember how Grifter Vic would say..."My earthly father can do a better job than that!"...
Well how about revelation? When my dad would speak to me, he had the uncanny ability to distinguish himself from my own thoughts...never once, when he spoke to me, did I ever wonder..."Is that my dad talking or is it just my own thought?" Imagine that.
...But the cornfield preacher convinced everybody that when the creator of the heaven and earth speaks to us, it comes in a the form resembling our own thoughts...how convieeeeeenient.
When I left twi, I vowed to never again PRETEND that God was speaking to me...When ANYBODY speaks to me, determining the source of the speaker has never been a problem...All Wierwille did was confuse people with his catch 22 parlor games.
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shazdancer
LOL, Unca Hairy, I made the same kind of pact with God, telling Him He would have to hit me over the head with revelation if He wanted to give me any, 'cuz I needed to know it was Him and not me.
I can recall Wierwille saying things at the Rock as well, saying that God had showed him who the government agents were in the audience, stuff like that. Made us all kinda go "ooh, wow, heavy stuff" and look around. 'Course, such an admission flew in the face of all he'd taught about revelation (what's the profit? and don't go around blabbing about what God told you), but principles never stopped a grifter from wowing a crowd.
Regards,
Shaz
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Technobyte
Interesting... I was a "government agent" at the time I was in TWI. Just so you don't get the wrong idea, I was not an investigator, nor was I investigating the ministry (or anyone/thing else for that matter). Could be that VPW was "detecting" people like me (I never met VPW). Just happened that I was a cihpargotpyrc tech for for the NSA at the time.
VP never said that these "government agents" were investigators, did he?
:o--> Didn't think so. 
:)-->
Technobyte
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excathedra
ha ha ha ha ha ha techno !
you were a what ?
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shazdancer
Cryptographic, ex. He wrote it backwards.
Shaz
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excathedra
i knew that really i swear ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
thank you cutie scrabble brains !!!!
very clever techno what a cool job. what do you do now ? are you allowed to tell ?
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George Aar
If I remember the quote correctly (I can't believe this trivial crap stays stuck in my brain) Mr. Wierwille said something like:
"I know that there's F.B.I. agents in the crowd here. Why do you act so surprised? I work for the Man upstairs!"
Yeah, sure you did, Vick...
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excathedra
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