Welcome, M. D. Vaden of Oregon! Glad to have you here and I think it's a rather bold thing you're doing by coming here openly knowing that TWI does NOT approve of it. ;)--> Congratulations on maintaining your ability to make your own decisions and think for yourself.
I would like to warn you, though, that TWI heavily monitors this site and you very well could be "confronted" on your openness to come here and post. I know that I was in big trouble when they heard that I came on here and later when they thought I was posting on here as someone else, they were pretty vicious. I hope that doesn't happen to you if you are really happy in TWI.
I would like to comment on this part of your post:
quote:
1. Regular church invironment like I left years ago.
A lot of "regular" churches are now much different from what you left years ago. TWI says there's nothing better out there, but I beg to differ. Maybe there USED to be nothing better out there, but you'd be surprised at how much different and "better" churches have become these days. There's a lot more learning and teaching, a lot more involvement and love and caring, a lot more ways to serve and to get involved so that you can choose how/where you want to give your time based on your long suits, time and desires. I know I was pretty darn impressed with what's out there once I started looking around.
Anwyay, I'd love to buy you a danish or muffin. I'm sure Raf will be along with the coffee shortly. Again, Welcome! I look forward to hearing more from you.
Many here discuss past twi experiences, yet it is usually to the end of looking forward to the future. If you still attend fellowship in twi, that's fine and I (for one) hope you're blessed by it.
Many viewpoints are openly brought up here, and even though the past experiences we have encountered are discussed, it is to the end of closure and healing, rather than wallowing in what we were once involved with.
Enjoy your stay here. Looking forward to hearing more of your outspoken-ness. :)-->
I am aware of the open thing - maybe not monitoring, but these days, I don't put anything on the internet that I'd want to hide.
If you use Google search window and enter "Mario Vaden" or "mdvaden" you will find...well...let me say there are references in the hundreds from here to China.
One thing, it will be evident that I'm not on this forum to seek a group, nor to leave a group.
I think my main reasons for posting here will fall into two aspects:
a. speak out an opinion or thought
b. let my name get around and someone I knew will be aware of where I am
One thing is very notable for me: at least my wife was marked and avoided for a year or two for no cause. This made me realize that we may not be the only people that were marked and avoided for no reason. I can't name another, but I can't discard the possibility, either.
Most people that went through what we did probably would never desire to return. Oddly, we did. And the main reason was the believers that treate us with respect and had concern for our lives.
So I am open minded - not within doctrinal challenge - but in that some brothers and sisters may have been knocked down previously.
I niether assume they were, or that they were not.
But here I am, and if anyone knows me and wants to say hello, great.
An interesting side-note:
Suppose someone monitored this forum and said something to me. Well, I may be the first to the punch of unvieling it. You are right. I am bold and outspoken. But there is the other side of the coin. We were rock solid supporters of the Way. I made a bad decision, but my wife was marked for supporting me. In fact, she helped me solidify my weakness. By the time we got back, the entire issue could not be swept under the rug. Believers of TWI in Portland - even abroad - had clear exposed awareness that we would never have been marked except for going to seek cousel and advice.
So, our marking was a heavy blow on the willingness of other believers to share with leadership.
That means if someone does not like who I am talking to, and where I talk to - what are they really going to do about it? I am not on this forum or horticulture forums either to draw disciples or force disciples. So if I get marked an avoided or whatever - whoever will be instigating it will cognizant of the impact it will have. Our last marking had more than a ripple effect. A second, if not appropriate, would have less than value for the household.
I must share this though; the local coordinator of Oregon, and his wife are outstanding individuals. They are refreshing to be around. They really can keep the interest of children too, unlike anything I've seen in a while. My favorite teachers are the ones that keep the attention of our full family. Young or old.
For some reason, I feel a bit hesitant to post specific names on the forum of those leaders.
But I will say this - when I refered positive sense, to state coordinators - that context - I can certify that they were not here in the 80s or at any other time. I've been here with TWI since 1983 and my wife was here before that.
A separate topic; as I think about TWI or other people that were affiliated by TWI; it's amazing how many lives changed course one way or the other from the efforts of a few individuals (meaning Dr. Wierwille and friends).
Long time no see! I used to live in the Beaverton area and know you. I left that area in 1996 to go on staff. I do think it's bold that you come on here. I hope that you are able to continue to do it without hassels. You'll have to keep us posted.
Funny thing: I have wondered about your step son, Gr*g, and how he's doing since his journey as a WD and in the Corps. I wanted to talk to him for quite some time after I first left.
Is N still your Branch coordinator? I know your Limb coordinators are considered the more lenient of top way leadership. I heard of many more people not being confronted in that area for having a mortgage. Is that still the case?
Take care. You can email me if you want. Thanks for the Oregon pics! They are awesome!! Makes me miss it soooo bad!
Well.. yes a "N" ending "y" is the branch coordinator. Or was. Knee has been making it a bit difficult to get around.
You well describe the coordinators of the state (think Vancouver, WA in in the OR limb).
Nobody gets confronted about mortage here anymore. Maybe a minor concerned conversation amongst closer believers. But since people on the right hand, the left hand, and any other hand are financing houses, it's a bit useless to say anything about it.
Not everybody will finance, but a larger proportion are - possibly the more part. We have no need to. My arrangement is through my earthly family for the house we are in.
I got tired of renting and leasing in which case I was buying the other house for someone and paying their taxes without much room at all for modifying a house to fit our needs.
One thing about buying, the promise is a two way agreement. And in general, the value of the loan is backed by the value of the house. It's probably not ideal for people stretching out 30 year loans.
I feel that the greater bondage for us in renting was not even the investment part near as much as control over the property and immediate environment.
Due to our family thing. I don't pay too much attention to total costs. But let's see, wouldn't a $100,000 home cost about $180,000 in final payments after 15 years. Some real estate sites have the calculation thing.
Now that home would also require about $20,000 in taxes too. Can't neglect that. Rent does not see that on top. It's paid from the rent money source though.
But we would need to lease a house at $1500 if it was to house our family and home based business. So that's $270,000 over 15 years.
I believe it's ideal to buy with cash. But not every person succeeds to believe to pay cash of that magnitude.
I'm just headed down that route. Not sure when I'll get there, but I will.
Now that home would also require about $20,000 in taxes too.
I work for the County Assessor, and even houses valued over $300,000 don't have taxes this high. How do they figure the taxes there? I'm wondering since I would consider moving there again.
MD, if you find out that it's okay for "standing" wayfers to post on Grease Spot, tell them that I'm waiting for my apology...that's what got me thrown out in 2001.
Hello, M.D. I visited your site. Very nice, I like it, it's laid out well, the navigation is logical and easy to follow. Photos, nice. Good job, to you or whoever built it.
As far as websites, since you're active in the Way at this time - here's a question. How do they communicate about what's on their website? Do you get regular notices or emails letting you know content's been updated? When it went live couple years ago what was said about it, it's purpose. Any future plans discussed at that time?
I don't mean you Wayfers any harm, it's a free country. Live peaceably and don't break the law, that's all I ask. I'm just curious about that stuff. If you get a sec, it would be interesting to know more. Thanks.
(If you're active in the Way you might also consider suggesting that the Way Nash refurb their site, or rebuild it. It's pretty amateurish.)
It will be interesting to note if anyone from the Way reproves you for being on Greasespot.
With respect to mortgages, it was already mentioned that your average Joe Believer in the Way can have them -- but leadership can't. There's the rub.
Do you know of a family coordinator who has a mortgage?
Do you know of someone who has a mortgage who was able to attend the new advanced class?
quote:
MD, if you find out that it's okay for "standing" wayfers to post on Grease Spot, tell them that I'm waiting for my apology...that's what got me thrown out in 2001.
I, too, am interested in answers to these questions, MDVaden. I wasn't kicked out for posting on GSpot, but I was accused of it and they were NOT happy about the prospect of my posting on here. I DID get into serious trouble, ask Oak mentioned, for sending a letter and pretty darn good research about debt to a friend of mine at HQ who was contemplating going back to college but couldn't afford it. They went to a lot of trouble to track down where the letter came from and spent a whole day "confronting" me about sharing research that was contradictory to TWI's doctrine and legalistic rules about debt.
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Belle
Welcome, M. D. Vaden of Oregon! Glad to have you here and I think it's a rather bold thing you're doing by coming here openly knowing that TWI does NOT approve of it.
;)--> Congratulations on maintaining your ability to make your own decisions and think for yourself.
I would like to warn you, though, that TWI heavily monitors this site and you very well could be "confronted" on your openness to come here and post. I know that I was in big trouble when they heard that I came on here and later when they thought I was posting on here as someone else, they were pretty vicious. I hope that doesn't happen to you if you are really happy in TWI.
I would like to comment on this part of your post:
A lot of "regular" churches are now much different from what you left years ago. TWI says there's nothing better out there, but I beg to differ. Maybe there USED to be nothing better out there, but you'd be surprised at how much different and "better" churches have become these days. There's a lot more learning and teaching, a lot more involvement and love and caring, a lot more ways to serve and to get involved so that you can choose how/where you want to give your time based on your long suits, time and desires. I know I was pretty darn impressed with what's out there once I started looking around.
Anwyay, I'd love to buy you a danish or muffin. I'm sure Raf will be along with the coffee shortly. Again, Welcome! I look forward to hearing more from you.
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dmiller
MD -- welcome to The GreaseSpot.
Many here discuss past twi experiences, yet it is usually to the end of looking forward to the future. If you still attend fellowship in twi, that's fine and I (for one) hope you're blessed by it.
Many viewpoints are openly brought up here, and even though the past experiences we have encountered are discussed, it is to the end of closure and healing, rather than wallowing in what we were once involved with.
Enjoy your stay here. Looking forward to hearing more of your outspoken-ness.
:)-->
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oldiesman
Welcome M.D. Vaden.
Please continue to share your current Way International experiences.
I've hoped there'd be more folks like you posting here.
:)-->
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mdvaden
Belle...
Thanks for the concern.
I am aware of the open thing - maybe not monitoring, but these days, I don't put anything on the internet that I'd want to hide.
If you use Google search window and enter "Mario Vaden" or "mdvaden" you will find...well...let me say there are references in the hundreds from here to China.
One thing, it will be evident that I'm not on this forum to seek a group, nor to leave a group.
I think my main reasons for posting here will fall into two aspects:
a. speak out an opinion or thought
b. let my name get around and someone I knew will be aware of where I am
One thing is very notable for me: at least my wife was marked and avoided for a year or two for no cause. This made me realize that we may not be the only people that were marked and avoided for no reason. I can't name another, but I can't discard the possibility, either.
Most people that went through what we did probably would never desire to return. Oddly, we did. And the main reason was the believers that treate us with respect and had concern for our lives.
So I am open minded - not within doctrinal challenge - but in that some brothers and sisters may have been knocked down previously.
I niether assume they were, or that they were not.
But here I am, and if anyone knows me and wants to say hello, great.
An interesting side-note:
Suppose someone monitored this forum and said something to me. Well, I may be the first to the punch of unvieling it. You are right. I am bold and outspoken. But there is the other side of the coin. We were rock solid supporters of the Way. I made a bad decision, but my wife was marked for supporting me. In fact, she helped me solidify my weakness. By the time we got back, the entire issue could not be swept under the rug. Believers of TWI in Portland - even abroad - had clear exposed awareness that we would never have been marked except for going to seek cousel and advice.
So, our marking was a heavy blow on the willingness of other believers to share with leadership.
That means if someone does not like who I am talking to, and where I talk to - what are they really going to do about it? I am not on this forum or horticulture forums either to draw disciples or force disciples. So if I get marked an avoided or whatever - whoever will be instigating it will cognizant of the impact it will have. Our last marking had more than a ripple effect. A second, if not appropriate, would have less than value for the household.
I must share this though; the local coordinator of Oregon, and his wife are outstanding individuals. They are refreshing to be around. They really can keep the interest of children too, unlike anything I've seen in a while. My favorite teachers are the ones that keep the attention of our full family. Young or old.
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Steve!
This probably isn't the right forum to ask this, but what the heck.
Would you mind sharing the names of those local leaders? I ask because I lived in Portland for 4 years, back in the 80's.
Oh, and when you use full names, unless the name is your own, you should obscure it just a little - e.g., M*rio V*den. Forum rules, ya know.
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mdvaden
For some reason, I feel a bit hesitant to post specific names on the forum of those leaders.
But I will say this - when I refered positive sense, to state coordinators - that context - I can certify that they were not here in the 80s or at any other time. I've been here with TWI since 1983 and my wife was here before that.
A separate topic; as I think about TWI or other people that were affiliated by TWI; it's amazing how many lives changed course one way or the other from the efforts of a few individuals (meaning Dr. Wierwille and friends).
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Nottawayfer
Well Hello MDVaden!
Long time no see! I used to live in the Beaverton area and know you. I left that area in 1996 to go on staff. I do think it's bold that you come on here. I hope that you are able to continue to do it without hassels. You'll have to keep us posted.
Funny thing: I have wondered about your step son, Gr*g, and how he's doing since his journey as a WD and in the Corps. I wanted to talk to him for quite some time after I first left.
Is N still your Branch coordinator? I know your Limb coordinators are considered the more lenient of top way leadership. I heard of many more people not being confronted in that area for having a mortgage. Is that still the case?
Take care. You can email me if you want. Thanks for the Oregon pics! They are awesome!! Makes me miss it soooo bad!
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mdvaden
Wayfer_Not.
Godspeed.
Well.. yes a "N" ending "y" is the branch coordinator. Or was. Knee has been making it a bit difficult to get around.
You well describe the coordinators of the state (think Vancouver, WA in in the OR limb).
Nobody gets confronted about mortage here anymore. Maybe a minor concerned conversation amongst closer believers. But since people on the right hand, the left hand, and any other hand are financing houses, it's a bit useless to say anything about it.
Not everybody will finance, but a larger proportion are - possibly the more part. We have no need to. My arrangement is through my earthly family for the house we are in.
I got tired of renting and leasing in which case I was buying the other house for someone and paying their taxes without much room at all for modifying a house to fit our needs.
One thing about buying, the promise is a two way agreement. And in general, the value of the loan is backed by the value of the house. It's probably not ideal for people stretching out 30 year loans.
I feel that the greater bondage for us in renting was not even the investment part near as much as control over the property and immediate environment.
Due to our family thing. I don't pay too much attention to total costs. But let's see, wouldn't a $100,000 home cost about $180,000 in final payments after 15 years. Some real estate sites have the calculation thing.
Now that home would also require about $20,000 in taxes too. Can't neglect that. Rent does not see that on top. It's paid from the rent money source though.
But we would need to lease a house at $1500 if it was to house our family and home based business. So that's $270,000 over 15 years.
I believe it's ideal to buy with cash. But not every person succeeds to believe to pay cash of that magnitude.
I'm just headed down that route. Not sure when I'll get there, but I will.
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Nottawayfer
I work for the County Assessor, and even houses valued over $300,000 don't have taxes this high. How do they figure the taxes there? I'm wondering since I would consider moving there again.
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Galen
hmm, this apartment building cost us about $120k and it's taxes are around $5k/year.
So I would think that a newer building worth say $500,000 would likely be billed around $20k/annum. [here in Connecticut]
Our California property's taxes come out of the escrow account, sorry.
:-)
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mdvaden
Well, I'm in Washington County of Oregon.
Our $200,000 home (was 179,000 4 years ago) has taxes at $2700 a year.
So, let me cut that in half, at $1350 per year. That's
$20,250 in 15 years.
Yeah, so I was wrong. I must have been off by more than $200
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mdvaden
You folks did notice the context of the house I referred to?
That $20,000 cost is referring to the 15 years which was the time frame of example.
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oldiesman
M.D.V.:
It will be interesting to note if anyone from the Way reproves you for being on Greasespot.
With respect to mortgages, it was already mentioned that your average Joe Believer in the Way can have them -- but leadership can't. There's the rub.
Do you know of a family coordinator who has a mortgage?
Do you know of someone who has a mortgage who was able to attend the new advanced class?
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Oakspear
MD, if you find out that it's okay for "standing" wayfers to post on Grease Spot, tell them that I'm waiting for my apology...that's what got me thrown out in 2001.
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socks
Hello, M.D. I visited your site. Very nice, I like it, it's laid out well, the navigation is logical and easy to follow. Photos, nice. Good job, to you or whoever built it.
As far as websites, since you're active in the Way at this time - here's a question. How do they communicate about what's on their website? Do you get regular notices or emails letting you know content's been updated? When it went live couple years ago what was said about it, it's purpose. Any future plans discussed at that time?
I don't mean you Wayfers any harm, it's a free country. Live peaceably and don't break the law, that's all I ask. I'm just curious about that stuff. If you get a sec, it would be interesting to know more. Thanks.
(If you're active in the Way you might also consider suggesting that the Way Nash refurb their site, or rebuild it. It's pretty amateurish.)
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Belle
I, too, am interested in answers to these questions, MDVaden. I wasn't kicked out for posting on GSpot, but I was accused of it and they were NOT happy about the prospect of my posting on here. I DID get into serious trouble, ask Oak mentioned, for sending a letter and pretty darn good research about debt to a friend of mine at HQ who was contemplating going back to college but couldn't afford it. They went to a lot of trouble to track down where the letter came from and spent a whole day "confronting" me about sharing research that was contradictory to TWI's doctrine and legalistic rules about debt.
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Belle
p.s. I still have a copy of the research and, I think it would surprise you. If you'd like a copy feel free to send me a private topic.
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Belle
MDVaden, I hope business is really booming and that's why you're not here.
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Raf
I'm sure that's what it is.
Either that, or someone in TWI ordered him... er, suggested that he exercise his right not to post here.
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dmiller
hmm yea. Didn't someone somewhere once say:
The suggestion of a general is tantamount to a command??
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