What gives Holocaust denial such an appeal?

[What The Hey]

THE BIG LIE

Hitler writes in "Mein Kampf" (MURPHY translation: page 134:)

"All this was inspired by the principle - which is quite true in itself - that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes.

From time immemorial. however, the Jews have known better than any others how falsehood and calumny can be exploited. Is not their very existence founded on one great lie, namely, that they are a religious community, whereas in reality they are a race? And what a race! One of the greatest thinkers that mankind has produced has branded the Jews for all time with a statement which is profoundly and exactly true. He (Schopenhauer) called the Jew "The Great Master of Lies". Those who do not realize the truth of that statement, or do not wish to believe it, will never be able to lend a hand in helping Truth to prevail."

And that was written in the year 1925, describing the situation after the First World War!

But I also would like to mention some of the additional consequences that evolve from the multi-faceted big lie. Whenever one confronts someone wrapped-up in this net of lies, the discussion usually goes something like this:

1. "Well, you mean the 6 million is a lie?" "Yes, it is a lie for many reasons, and that is proven. It had been peddled before. In a recent book entitled "Keystone of the New World Order: The Holocaust Dogma of Judaism," the author, Ben Weintraub makes the point that the number has, in fact, mythical significance because it is based on cabalistic sources. (Weintraub, Ben, The Holocaust Dogma: Keystone of the New World Order, Cosmos Publishers, 1994)
   
   
2. "But what about the Final Solution order, that existed?" "No, that too, is a lie. It is true that the words "Endlösung" or "Final Solution" were used in reference to the Jews. So what? Does that prove anything? Does that mean "extermination"? Does a "Final Solution" to the unemployment problem mean the government is going to exterminate all the unemployed?
   
   
3. "But we have seen all the gaschambers! They are everywhere!" "Those are forgeries, built after the war. In point of fact, the British Ministry of Information at first requested British clergy to help spread the "gas chamber" story which was planned to be put in circulation by the Ministry. (Rozek, Edward J., Allied Wartime Diplomacy, pp 108-110. John Wiley and Sons, New York ) However, from the start, it was judged to be too problematic and bizarre and, therefore, it was quickly withdrawn as a potential strategic embarrassment.
   
   
4. "But there are so many Jews whose relatives were gassed!" "Yet no one has ever really seen that. There would have been no hesitation to use the story of the "gassings" even during the war - had it been plausible. However, even during the war, the leadership of the Allied Nations - such as Churchill and Roosevelt as well as those of the Catholic hierarchy, including the then-Pope Pius XI - knew from their various intelligence agencies, spies on the ground, inmates with radio transmitters inside various camps (including inmate soldiers, inmate priests, even those who took confessions of local military, police and guard personnel) that no organized mass exterminations by gassing or any other means were going on inside these camps.
   
   
5. "But one can see all those mountains of corpses in documantary movies." "Many of them, as has been proven, were victims of the bombing terror unleashed over German cities. Many people, without a doubt, were killed in the chaos of war and resulting starvation - inconcivable in today's minds."
   

And question upon question from people keep coming: question #6, #7, #8, ... ad infinitum and ad nauseam. The answer is always: lies, lies and more lies. However that doesn't work very well; as people simply cannot believe that. They can't imagine such a monstrous lie could exist, and hence, they only see the revisionsits as nothing more than fanatics who want to deny everything, trying to turn all bad events into good deeds. It is impossible to remove every little detail from the minds of the indoctrinated masses. Therefore I believe that it is important to dispute the large dogmas like the 6 million, or the gaschambers which is easier today than at Galilei's time of the "orbiting sun"!

Along with the repetitious screems of the old lies, the weapon of silence is used rather sucessfully in combating counter-evidence. It is very crucial to emphasise the importance of propagating revisionist evidence and research materials, even if the politicians of our nations are total and complete puppets, subservient to the Dark Powers, who never miss an opportunity to affirm their guilt complex draped in nebulous dogmas, even banning the doubting of the official governments as ". . . indisputable facts which need no evidence".

Like a bee caught in a spidernet, it can only escape by jerking and breaking the main threads of the net, so we must tear through the prime lies of the Holocaust. But I also realize that very few people today are concerned about nor are they looking for the truth. At least they aren't concerned or looking for it any longer. What they are only concerned about and are looking for is censorship. What Revisionists are offering is the state of the art on Revisionism as it stands of right now. The final word is not yet in; it will come when more people in all kinds and sorts of disciplines will kneel into the murky matter of the "Holocaust" and find out for themselves exactly what is and what isn't true.

Edited September 26, 2007 by What The Hey

[socks]

Saw a documentary last year on Hitler - part of it covered Morell, who was his personal physician and who gave him daily injections of "vitamins" and various mixtures to keep him "healthy" and energetic. There were records, diaries of Hitler's condition when he was sick and bed ridden. Then he'd get a shot from the Doctor and in minutes be bouncing around with energy, like a new man. It's been postulated that Morell may have actually contributed to his ill health. Here's a list of ingredients that are documented as being given regularly to Hitler

(copied from Wikipedia)

Morell kept a medical diary of the drugs, tonics, vitamins and other substances he administered to Hitler, usually by either injection or in pill form. Most were commercial preparations, some were his own. Since some of these compounds are considered toxic, many historians have speculated Morell may have accidentally contributed to Hitler's poor health. This fragmentary list of representative ingredients would have seemed somewhat less shocking during the 1940s:

• Potassium bromide
  
• Nux Vomica (a form of strychnine)
  
• Atropine
  
• Sodium barbitone
  
• Oxedrine Tartrate
  
• Chamomile
  
• Testosterone
  
• Prophenazone
  
• Caffeine
  
• Belladonna
  
• E. coli
  
• Dihydroxycodeine
  
• Sulphonamide
  
• Cocaine (via eye drops)
  
• Enzymes
  
• Vitamins
  
• Amphetamines
  
• Methamphetamine
  
• Proteins and lipids derived from animal tissues and fats
  

Morell apparently never told Hitler (or anyone else) what he was administering, other than to say the preparations contained various vitamins and "natural" ingredients. Some ingredients were later confirmed by doctors who had been shown pills by Hitler while temporarily treating him. ...Cocaine was routinely used for medical purposes in Germany during that time but Morell is said to have increased the dosage tenfold. Overuse of cocaine eyedrops has been associated with psychotic behavior, hypertension and other symptoms but historians have generally tended to discount any effects of Morell's treatments on Hitler's decision-making.

(end of c/p)

------------------

The documentary I watched made it clear that Hitler basically became a speed freak - and he liked it. Most speed freaks do, especially those who can maintain, eat, function. The eyedrops may not have tanked him up, but the goofball injections Hitler fell in love with undoubtedly had an effect on his mind. Anyone who's been there/done that just needs to see those old reels of Hitler cranking and spanking it and it's obvious - he was one big pack of whack.

The Biggest Lie Hitler propounded was inside his sick body and cheese-whizzed brain, propped up by enough drugs to make a mannequinn dance. Methedrine addiction is a dark black hole where death looks warm and acceptable. I wouldn't doubt for a minute that a man with his power and intentions and influences could embrace the most horrific vision of the world and pursue it. Because he liked it, it made him feel good.

Edited September 26, 2007 by socks

[What The Hey]

Is that what this is all about?

Or is it not rather to keep the Germans in perpetual mental, political, economic and financial bondage and to make them susceptible to ever new, thinly disguised blackmail schemes which have extorted over 100 Billion DM out of them for the Holocaust Lobbyists and the members of their tribe, institutions and organizations - not to forget the State of Israel? Which did not even exist at the time of the alleged crimes that were supposed to have been committed by the Nazis?

The ethnic abuse of Germans and Germany must stop!

The Holocaust is not, and never has been about this touted "Jewish victimhood."

It is about extortion. It is about Power politics. It is about money, revenge, and hate!

The German people, most of whom were not even born when the tragedy of the Second World War befell their country, have been paying huge, huge sums of reparations to the Jewish state and people - many of them beneficiaries who themselves were equally not yet born when what the world now has been taught to call "The Holocaust" took place.

These German people have a right to all the facts. The Holocaust Promotion Lobby is brazenly misrepresenting their "facts" to fit its agenda of intolerance toward all those who would question its unconscionable, underhanded methods and goals, employing secret agents, slush funds, boycotts, threats and Holocaust terrorism.

Sorry, but victimizing ever new generations of Germans for the misdeeds, real and imagined, of their grandfathers and soon great-grandfathers is no way to bring peace, tolerance and harmony to the world. The persecuted of yesterday have just become the persecutors of today!

Edited September 26, 2007 by What The Hey

[doojable]

WTH - I bet you're never lonely...you seem to have lots of friends....

I don't see any hatred of Germans going on in this thread. I DO see discussion about a sad time in our History when men and women were treated like trash. The abuse was done BY German citizens AGAINST German citizens (among others) because an evil government was not stopped sooner. Germans were both the abused and the abusers.

It appears you're the one that wants to make this something it isn't...IMHO

[T-Bone]

...Morell apparently never told Hitler (or anyone else) what he was administering, other than to say the preparations contained various vitamins and "natural" ingredients. Some ingredients were later confirmed by doctors who had been shown pills by Hitler while temporarily treating him. ...Cocaine was routinely used for medical purposes in Germany during that time but Morell is said to have increased the dosage tenfold. Overuse of cocaine eyedrops has been associated with psychotic behavior, hypertension and other symptoms but historians have generally tended to discount any effects of Morell's treatments on Hitler's decision-making....

Sounds interesting, Socks. Did Morell ever note in his medical diary any insignificant side effects Hitler exhibited? Like his erratic writing behavior - every once and awhile using big letters.

[Abigail]

I appreciate those of you who have taken the time to debate this issue with WTH. It is quite obvious by reading his posts that he has a serious issue with Jewish people. I'm half expecting him to tell us next that slavery was all a big lie promoted by African Americans as well.

You will never change his mind - he is a racist and damned proud of it. But it is good of all of you to take the time to show those who are simply uncertain what the truth is, that WTH is promoting hate, not truth.

[WordWolf]

Yeah buddy - this is all fake, doctored and, otherwise "Hollywood" footage - none of these atrocities really happened.

It's a real simple question, WTH.

Is this fake or do you just really not care about what happened to all these people?

WTH then QUOTED Belle's question, and went on for several paragraphs, coming nowhere close to her question

in actually addressing it.

I am not gonna read all your bombastic b.s.

Why can't you just give a "yes" or "no" answer? :unsure:

Is that footage fake?

All the bombastic BS was to draw attention away from his refusal to answer the question,

and pretend he actually addressed it.

Just in case you were wondering.

I can read his bombastic bs lightning-quick.

[WordWolf]

I appreciate those of you who have taken the time to debate this issue with WTH. It is quite obvious by reading his posts that he has a serious issue with Jewish people. I'm half expecting him to tell us next that slavery was all a big lie promoted by African Americans as well.

You will never change his mind - he is a racist and damned proud of it. But it is good of all of you to take the time to show those who are simply uncertain what the truth is, that WTH is promoting hate, not truth.

I'm still curious why there are people who keep saying that vpw was neither anti-Semetic, nor pro-Nazi in any way,

and never taught along those lines,

and yet the only times we EVER see ANYONE denying the millions of Jews and non-Jews imprisoned and killed for the

"crimes" of being different by Nazi Germany during World War II,

these are people who are enthusiasts of vpw,

and feel the need to defend both the public image of vpw and the public image of Holocaust denial.

Is this connection supposed to be accidental?

I'm not saying every vpw defender is a Holocaust denier,

but it seems that every Holocaust denier (on the GSC) is a vpw defender.

(I expect there may be some vpw defenders who are NOT Holocaust deniers,

but there don't seem to be any GSC Holocaust deniers who are NOT vpw defenders.)

[T-Bone]

...I'm not saying every vpw defender is a Holocaust denier,

but it seems that every Holocaust denier (on the GSC) is a vpw defender.

(I expect there may be some vpw defenders who are NOT Holocaust deniers,

but there don't seem to be any GSC Holocaust deniers who are NOT vpw defenders.)

WordWolf, maybe it's an act of denial that safeguards their TWI-mindset. Arguing over vpw's interpretation of the Bible is one thing. You can have a gazillion different interpretations of anything in the Bible! It gets down to a philosophical viewpoint. But when we see vpw out of his "element" – it's almost comical if it wasn't so pathetic to observe his intellectual standards applied to anything in the real world – like history.

[oldiesman]

I'm still curious why there are people who keep saying that vpw was neither anti-Semetic, nor pro-Nazi in any way,

and never taught along those lines,

As I see it, he certainly was not anti-Semetic, because he loved Jewish folks enough to invite them into twi. Racists and Jew haters dont want to spend time with those they hate. Hitler wanted the Jews removed from Germany. When someone can prove that Wierwille wanted the Jews removed from twi, then you can call him anti-Semetic. Until then, it's a bum rap.

Similarly, he wasn't pro Nazi. Nazism is fascism, which is a governmental totalitarian regime. VPW didn't believe in totalitarianism. He believed in the American form of government, a free enterprise system, and limited Republic. He was proud to be an American and had great respect for those in the armed forces who fought against Fascism in WW II.

[GarthP2000]

WTH whines (in BIG LETTERS of course, for those of us who have 2 inch thick glasses? ),

"The ethnic abuse of Germans and Germany must stop!"

I can see it now. Germans of all stripes marching (goosestepping, that is) down Main Street singing "Ve Vill Over-come! ... Ve Vill Over-come!", accompanied by a biga** tuba player (tooting off key), wearing one of those Bavarian shirt & shorts w/ suspenders. Their sponsor will be the KKK, the Aryan Nation, and they'll have WTH as their spokeman at the rally. ... I wonder if we can't hire the Hell Angels as counter-demonstrators. At least it should provide entertaining news in the Fring section on the CNN website.

WTH - I bet you're never lonely...you seem to have lots of friends....

... Yeah, ... all in his head.

I appreciate those of you who have taken the time to debate this issue with WTH.

I think it's more of a case of putting out the valid info about the Holocaust for others to see, as trying to debate with WTH is tantamount to arguing with a criminally insane individual strapped up in a strait jacket.

Oldies,

... because he loved Jewish folks enough to invite them into twi.

There would be those who would, and could, seriously debate that point.

When someone can prove that Wierwille wanted the Jews removed from twi, then you can call him anti-Semetic.

The fact that he embraced Holocaust revisionism (ie., that it didn't happen), and for the reasons he did, _makes_ him anti-Semetic.

Edited September 26, 2007 by GarthP2000

[WordWolf]

Oldies,

for now I'm leaving alone that you skipped HALF my statement- that a link is demonstrated-

to deny the existence of a link without refuting the demonstration-

because I'd like to give you a chance to set the record straight on your current thinking.

So, Oldiesman,

do you believe that over 100,000 or millions of people, some of them Jews, were imprisoned during World War II

by the Nazis and under the order of their command (Hitler and the boys),

and thousands or more of them were killed BY the Nazis at that time?

Or, do you believe that the branded numbers in the skin of people, the recovered video, photos, the confessions,

the eyewitness accounts from all sides, and the sites recovered, do you believe they were all invented in some

sort of grand conspiracy to frame the Nazis for attempted genocide and mass-murder of prisoners?

Or, do you refuse to say either way what you think?

[oldiesman]

The fact that he embraced Holocaust revisionism (ie., that it didn't happen), and for the reasons he did, _makes_ him anti-Semetic.

I don't make that connection. I believe a person can believe in Revisionist thought, without hating the Jews. The Revisionists believe that the Holocaust, or various parts of it, was not true. That belief is not necessarily equal to or means that one hates Jews. It "can" mean that, but it would depend on other factors too. Its just not fair to label someone as hating a whole race/religion of people because he may have different views on what occurred in the past.

[oldiesman]

Oldies,

for now I'm leaving alone that you skipped HALF my statement- that a link is demonstrated-

to deny the existence of a link without refuting the demonstration-

because I'd like to give you a chance to set the record straight on your current thinking.

So, Oldiesman,

do you believe that over 100,000 or millions of people, some of them Jews, were imprisoned during World War II

by the Nazis and under the order of their command (Hitler and the boys),

and thousands or more of them were killed BY the Nazis at that time?

Or, do you believe that the branded numbers in the skin of people, the recovered video, photos, the confessions,

the eyewitness accounts from all sides, and the sites recovered, do you believe they were all invented in some

sort of grand conspiracy to frame the Nazis for attempted genocide and mass-murder of prisoners?

Or, do you refuse to say either way what you think?

Don't know what to tell you other than I have mixed emotions at present.

[waysider]

Oldies

You might want to stick to your assertion that VeePee was a swell fella and could do no wrong.

At least you have proven to us you really believe that much.

If you still insist on maintaining your "knight in shining armor" image of Wierwille, it's really no skin off of my nose.

Please don't suggest, however, that he never publically taught that we(TWI believers ) were the chosen ones and had replaced the Jews as God's people.

That would be a form of "denial" that really doesn't "appeal" to the thousands who heard him do so.

(Myself being one of those thousands.)

I like ya, brother, but the coffee is brewing.

Can you smell it?

[oldiesman]

Oldies

You might want to stick to your assertion that VeePee was a swell fella and could do no wrong.

At least you have proven to us you really believe that much.

If you still insist on maintaining your "knight in shining armor" image of Wierwille, it's really no skin off of my nose.

Please don't suggest, however, that he never publically taught that we(TWI believers ) were the chosen ones and had replaced the Jews as God's people.

That would be a form of "denial" that really doesn't "appeal" to the thousands who heard him do so.

(Myself being one of those thousands.)

I like ya, brother, but the coffee is brewing.

Can you smell it?

Waysider: you seem perturbed about something. here is my response:

(1) when did I ever say that Wierwille did no wrong? At times he was swell. At times, he wasn't.

(2) who said I have a "knight in shining armor" image of Wierwille?

(3) I never suggested that he never publically taught that "we(TWI believers ) were the chosen ones and had replaced the Jews as God's people."

But now that you mention it, Wierwille taught that all born again believers are "God's Chosen People" and he didn't believe that today's Jews were God's Chosen People because he didn't believe the Jews were the biblical Judeans. Even so, I also think he believed that today's Jews are just like everybody else, body and soul before getting born again. I got the impression that he taught that they have no special connection with God or immunity from death resulting from being unsaved.

All of this does not mean he hated Jews. It means he saw them just like everyone else... in need of a Lord and Saviour.

[What The Hey]

I'm still curious why there are people who keep saying that vpw was neither anti-Semetic, nor pro-Nazi in any way, and never taught along those lines, and yet the only times we EVER see ANYONE denying the millions of Jews and non-Jews imprisoned and killed for the "crimes" of being different by Nazi Germany during World War II,

these are people who are enthusiasts of vpw, and feel the need to defend both the public image of vpw and the public image of Holocaust denial.

Here's a logical question for you WW - that is, if you can provide a logical answer to it [which is doubtful]: Just how are all these Holocaust revisionists, (i.e. Arthur Butz, Bradley Smith, Fred Leuchter, John Ball, Keith Stimely, Germar Rudolf, Norman Finkelstein, etc., etc., etc., etc.) all these people who have never ever heard of VPW before, nor have they ever been affiliated with TWI - have now magically become enthusiasts of VPW and are somehow defending his image?

Is this connection supposed to be accidental?

And I keep wondering ... exactly what makes you think there ever WAS a connection there to begin with?

I'm not saying every vpw defender is a Holocaust denier, but it seems that every Holocaust denier (on the GSC) is a vpw defender. (I expect there may be some vpw defenders who are NOT Holocaust deniers, but there don't seem to be any GSC Holocaust deniers who are NOT vpw defenders.)

I fully realize what you are saying. What you are saying is: Every holocaust denier = a VPW defender.

But that too, is a preposterous claim, as the handful of the few people I listed above have likewise never heard of GSC, nor are they affiliated with the GSC community either.

Of course, what it is all about today is: "my community" and doing whatever it takes to preserve "my community". Similarly, I find discussing the holocaust with some people today is akin to the results Marilee Martin got when she spoke at the Acadamy Award's ceremony. The "hearing community" was completely fine with her speach, but the DEAF COMMUNITY was totally and completely outraged! The deaf community actually believed "one of their own" had betrayed them, as she infringed upon their right to sign language (because she had spoken at the award ceremony instead of signing when to present the awards) and that by doing so, she jeapordized many of the legal rights of the deaf and the hard of hearing.

Of course, everything would have been 'peachy keen' with the deaf community if she had gone along and signed everything instead of deciding to speak and call out the names of those who had won the awards - for the deaf community is quite content and very happy with silence. They consider signing to be their "legal" right, and for a deaf person to speak instead of sign is likewise and therefore, infringing upon their legal rights to sign.

I also realize that I am speaking to a "deaf community", as it appears that the majority of the GSC community has shown that they are not at all happy with many of the things that the holocaust revisionist's have "spoken up and said" and have yet to say, even though their message is logical and clear and has been well received by those who "can hear". It is exactly like what Jesus Christ himself had said, " ... He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Mark 4:9.

But it's also like what I just stated. Today it's all about "my community" and doing whatever it takes to preserve "my community" - and every community is governed by "politics" - just like the deaf community is, dontch know. Politics are often very messy, and they frequently become very ugly. That is one reason why most people never speak up - in fact the greater stay away for that very reason. (AND TWI WAS ALL ABOUT POLITICS - JUST LIKE THE GSC IS!)

Also, there are many other things I prefer to do with my time other than wrap myself up in and around all the politics of the GSC community here; simply because I have very little desire to be part of all the "nitty-gritty" that goes on around here most of the time. Most people I know are pretty bad at it anyway. I would also be very bad at it; as my skin is too thin and my opinions are far too dear - just like theirs.

[What The Hey]

I don't make that connection. I believe a person can believe in Revisionist thought, without hating the Jews. The Revisionists believe that the Holocaust, or various parts of it, was not true. That belief is not necessarily equal to or means that one hates Jews. It "can" mean that, but it would depend on other factors too. Its just not fair to label someone as hating a whole race/religion of people because he may have different views on what occurred in the past.

(To the things I have bolded texed above.)

[WordWolf]

Don't know what to tell you other than I have mixed emotions at present.

Does that mean you're currently undecided, and cannot honestly say your convictions point distinctly at either direction at this moment?

(That's what it sounds like, so I'd like to clarify.)

[WordWolf]

For those playing along, I posted this

(I'm adding emphasis to point out what WTH seems unable to read):

I'm still curious why there are people who keep saying that vpw was neither anti-Semetic, nor pro-Nazi in any way,

and never taught along those lines,

and yet the only times we EVER see ANYONE denying the millions of Jews and non-Jews imprisoned and killed for the

"crimes" of being different by Nazi Germany during World War II,

these are people who are enthusiasts of vpw,

and feel the need to defend both the public image of vpw and the public image of Holocaust denial.

Is this connection supposed to be accidental?

I'm not saying every vpw defender is a Holocaust denier,

but it seems that every Holocaust denier (on the GSC) is a vpw defender.

(I expect there may be some vpw defenders who are NOT Holocaust deniers,

but there don't seem to be any GSC Holocaust deniers who are NOT vpw defenders.)

WTH, demonstrating the consistency with which he's approached the evidence of the Holocaust,

replied-quoting that in its entirety, as follows:

Here's a logical question for you WW - that is, if you can provide a logical answer to it [which is doubtful]: Just how are all these Holocaust revisionists, (i.e. Arthur Butz, Bradley Smith, Fred Leuchter, John Ball, Keith Stimely, Germar Rudolf, Norman Finkelstein, etc., etc., etc., etc.) all these people who have never ever heard of VPW before, nor have they ever been affiliated with TWI - have now magically become enthusiasts of VPW and are somehow defending his image?

So,

apparently, Arthur Butz, Bradley Smith, etc, are all posters on the GSC,

since WTH replied to my comments-which were specifically flagged to refer ONLY to the GSC in case someone

was skimming or lacked the wit to contextualize properly- by saying they applied to these people.

Somehow, they have how magically become posters on the GSC as I specified.

==

Again,

he responded to my

I'm not saying every vpw defender is a Holocaust denier, but it seems that every Holocaust denier (on the GSC) is a vpw defender. (I expect there may be some vpw defenders who are NOT Holocaust deniers, but there don't seem to be any GSC Holocaust deniers who are NOT vpw defenders.)

with his own

I fully realize what you are saying. What you are saying is: Every holocaust denier = a VPW defender.

But that too, is a preposterous claim, as the handful of the few people I listed above have likewise never heard of GSC, nor are they affiliated with the GSC community either.

Apparently, when I specified this wasn't an equation ("I'm NOT saying every vpw defender is a Holocaust denier"),

WTH "fully realized" I was saying it WAS an equation ("Every Holocaust denier = a VPW defender.")

Since I never made it, that's little problem of mine. It's the problem of the imaginary poster whom WTH supposedly

"fully realizes".

Somehow, he's reading a post that specifies each Holocaust denier around the world defends vpw,

despite the posts actually specifying otherwise-

A) the connection is only between posters on the GSC]

B) the connection does not equal an equation, since there's no equivalence (it doesn't apply in both directions)

If he's looking at the evidence the Holocaust happened the same way he can read

"this only applies to posters at the GSC"

and translate that as

"this applies to everyone around the world"

and read "I'm not saying this"

and translate that as

"I'm saying this",

then there's small wonder that he can view piles of evidence for something,

and still miss that there was any strong evidence in it.

This is the kind of "logic" in play when one is denying the Holocaust happened,

as we can all see. (Scroll up and see it for yourselves, those posts are from a few hours ago.)

======

Oh, and the irony of the mentally-blind calling the mentally-sighted people "deaf" is just too funny.....

Edited September 26, 2007 by WordWolf

[oldiesman]

Does that mean you're currently undecided, and cannot honestly say your convictions point distinctly at either direction at this moment?

(That's what it sounds like, so I'd like to clarify.)

yes that is about right.

[waysider]

When someone can prove that Wierwille wanted the Jews removed from twi, then you can call him anti-Semetic. Until then, it's a bum rap.

The logic in that baffles me.

Wierwille promoted and encouraged the reading and study of materials that were clearly anti-Semitic.

Do we really need to list the books again?

But since he did not advocate removal of Jews from the organization, that somehow negates the effects that were rendered on the readers of those materials?

I'm not at all perturbed, as you suggested, just puzzled at the length some people will go to in denying the reality of what happened in the so-called "good old days".

BTW--- I spent three years of my life in a program that was clearly an exercise in socialist living. This was at a time when Wierwille was clearly at the reins of the organization. Either he was totally unaware of how this program was being conducted or he viewed the socialist lifestyle as a valid option for Christian living.

Either way, I don't think that sheds a positive light on his awareness or political tendencies.

[What The Hey]

So, apparently, Arthur Butz, Bradley Smith, etc, are all posters on the GSC, since WTH replied to my comments-which were specifically flagged to refer ONLY to the GSC in case someone was skimming or lacked the wit to contextualize properly- by saying they applied to these people.

I don't recall making any claim that these Holocaust revisionists are also poster's here at GSC. I don't even know where you got that idea. But then again, it appears that you are making "a connection" where none exists - which apparently you are very good at, especially when you drop little comments like: "but it seems that every Holocaust denier (on the GSC) is a vpw defender."

I simply found that to be a ludicrous and preposterous claim - and I still do. (Apparently you consider me to be one of those "VPW defender's" though - which only goes to prove how little you know because there are many things VPW did I don't care to or want to defend.) You might have just as well gone on to say that all of these Holocaust revisionists also post here at GSC and that they are also VPW defenders simply by the comment you made earlier.

I will simply go on record by saying: "There is no connection between them and VPW and TWI, anymore than there is a connection between them and the GSC." That is the point I was making and am still making. Remarkable though how you chose to respond to everything I said, except for this comment I also made: And I keep wondering ... exactly what makes you think there ever WAS a connection there to begin with? Well WW, do you care to respond to that comment or not? Probably not. And why is that?

Because none of us really knows exactly what your basis is/was for drawing any connection beween Holocaust deniers and VPW defenders, regardless if they happen to post on GSC or not. Of course I realize you "conveniently" choose not to respond to that particular comment I also made, simply because you wanted to make it appear as though I were the one drawing that connection instead of you.

WELL - HAVE I MADE MYSELF CLEAR NOW? Or are you still deaf? But then, with all the "noise" you make, it's a wonder anyone can hear at all.

[Ham]

I'm not saying every vpw defender is a Holocaust denier,

but it seems that every Holocaust denier (on the GSC) is a vpw defender.

I dunno.. I think that's a pretty accurate observation. From those I've read here, it does seem that the closer the person comes to adopting vic's ideologies and doctrine, the more outspoken they are about the "lies" or '"exagerations" of the holocaust.

I guess Koolaid by any other flavor is still Koolaid.

What about some of vic's "most loyal"?

Gear, To*ns*nd, others? I would bet they'd hold closest to the opinion that left the "master's" reputation and heritage unstained..

[Sushi]

Let's see if it works......As usual, if you are offended by adult language, do NOT click on

. Well, guess it's just my account that can't embed. Edited September 27, 2007 by Sushi