Hi BluzieQ. The first time I sat through the Christian family and sex class, I think I was 19 or 20. When it came to the submission part of the woman, I literally got up and walked out. They tried to stop me on the way out the door. I think I'm one of the few women who did that. As I said, I had been with TWI since 15 in 1970, so in those few years, I had seen first hand the "submission" doctrine at work in some early corps couples and others.
Do a search on Google for the "Jesus Movement" or "Jesus Freaks" - there's a wonderful article I found with a great history and overview, plus other great stuff.
Your parents were at Kent State huh? That explains a lot.
I know young people today think this country is on the verge of revolution, but I think the reason us "older" folks seem so calm about it, is because nothing yet has compared with the times in the late '60s-early to mid-70s, when you really did have white college kid bombmaking groups, campuses were being bombed, banks, etc. I was reading recently how many bombs were exploded during that time period by our own "homegrown" terroists - it was amazing. the peaceful hippy movement didn't bring about the "revolution" as hoped, so it got more and more violent. Most young kids have no idea about this.
So, I guess, since we don't have the street chaos, cities burning (I grew up right outside of NYC - I remember the race riots), leaders being assinated and on and on, we're all pretty calm. I still have not seen in my lifetime days like those. It was like, us young 12 and 13 year olds were totally into the hippy, peace, love, pot thing and life was "groovy" - but it was like there was always this sinister music playing softly in the background you couldn't shake.
OK, enough about that - hey when I was your age...
Neat stuff, y'all! I love it when you share about your lives growing up and the teen angst and all the stuff going on. It truly is fascinating and so hard to imagine in this apathetic age.
Ask a question BluzieQ, and look at all the goodies you get in addition to answers to your question. :)--> Thanks for posting!
I loved your last point about how white heterosexual males were treated the best, they were the top of the food chain. This is an excellent and overlooked point, and very true. I've also noted on here, the diehard defenders of VPW are in that category. As a female, I never could buy into the "submissive" thing and basically dismissed it.
Good God. Us WMHs are on the bottom of the food chain practically everywhere else.
The Whiteside book was presented as an alleged "slice of life" look at what happens at HQ on a daily basis. It was held up as an example of the so called abundant life and lots of leaders in the field would use the book as a basis for embellishment to get people to wonder what it would be like to "serve" at HQ and be so close to "doctor" and be really "tapped in". I was told that I could never truly experience the abundant life until I made a trip to HQ and "spent time there" which of course was possible if you invested in the Way lifestyle and progressed in the programs.
Of course the "next best thing" was the ROA.
Conspicuously absent from the book are major details relating to the Doop/Heefner associations and resulting power struggles. I suspect that such information was far too real and nitty-gritty to be included in a book whose sole mission was to magnify TW and VPW. The book was very sanitized and free of anything but postives and praise for TW. It was hardly an unbiased look at TW - lets put it that way.
In general the book was touted as a source of inspiration and something to aspire to in our daily lives even if we couldn't be at HQ.
The book was used as a basis to launch into discussions relative to the signs and miracles which were supposedly a daily and routine occurrence at "HQ". The nature of the deliverance was of the "the blind could see " and the "lame could walk" variety. Of course once I took the time to go to "HQ" I didn't see any of this. I DID see lots of idealistic young people being irrepressibly optimistic about things and wanting so badly to make a difference. But I also saw this in communes and activist groups I had checked out previously. It was the same energy and desire to make a difference. But I never saw evidence of some utopian existence or bliss type of lifestyle depicted in the book. Nor did I see any of these "awesome miracles" that I was told happened on a daily basis. If they were happening then people were awfully quiet about them. Sure there were folks talking about how their "sore throat was healed" after someone prayed for them but in my book thats not a miracle. (Perhaps TWI cheapened the whole concept of miracle to lower people's standards as to what consitutes one).
People were so desperate to latch onto something meaningful and important that
they were willing to tolerate behavior from VPW and other Way leaders that the wouldn't tolerate from their best friends or blood family members. The promise of "something big happening" kept lots of folks on board. It was a complex time and lots of people felt like they had no control over their lives and if they could regain some confidence and personal power (real or imagined) by aligning themselves with a spiritual cause like TWI then that was good enough for many. I , like lots of folks, was in this category. So much of the growth associated with TWI was based on the ideals and optimism of a generation. If anything we were more likeminded prior to our Way experience than during or after. We were all after many of the same things and goals and TWI (as well as other alternative organizations) provided a seemingly good fit at least at the time. Too bad it didn't pan out...
Nice of you to post here. I got in The Way when I was 18. And ya know, I am glad of my involvement with it. I had been to sea as a Merchant Marine for a couple of years, been overseas alot, and was the survivor of a near sinking in the North Atlantic during a terrible storm. A story in itself. But during that time of terror, I prayed to God that we could live and finally make it to a safe haven, which we did. We made it to Bermuda where we promptly got very drunk for a couple of days.
But I had not forgotten my promise to God that I would seek out others who believed in Him, should I have the chance to live. And, not long after that, while working on a riverboat/restaurant on the Potomac River in DC, I prayed again. I lived in the wheelhouse of this boat, and one night after a lot of soul searching I got on my knees and prayed to God and promised Him that I would keep my promise to Him and go to the church or whatever of the next Christian person I met. "You send 'em" I told Him, and "I would go with them".
I was tired of the worldliness of the World, and I wanted to be around people who cared about the things of God, about the things that mattered instead of just "things".
The very next day, while readying the Cruise Ship Dandy for our luncheon cruise, a radiant young woman came walking down the dock toward our gangway. She had on the cute blue and white sailors skirt and top that all of our cocktail waitresess wore, so I knew that she must be a new hire. Yes, she was a pretty red head, but there seemed to be something about her that was different. She seemed to have a shine, or an "aura" about her if you will. As I gave her a hand up the gangway, I said; "Welcome aboard the Cruise Ship Dandy m'amm", And she said; "Hya! My name's Ann Marie! What's your name?" And I said; "My name's Kevin, what's your name?" And she said brightly; "Ann Marie!"
Well, I felt really stupid to repeat my name twice, but, I was captivated by her evident glow of life, and since she seemed to have a New york accent, I asked her where she was from. She proceeded to tell me that she was from Rochester, New York, but that she had just come from Ohio to teach people about the "accuracy of God's Word and about the power of God". Well, this just blew my mind! I asked her if she also meant Jesus Christ, and she oh yes, defininetly.
And then I told her in excitement that I had prayed to God the night before, on my knees that if He would send me a Christian person, I would go to their church, and, I continued; "Here you are!" To which she replied; "I was just praying in this park nearby to send someone to me who wants to know about God's Word, and here you are! And we both embraced, and I got all choked up, and I sat her down at the bar and began to pour my heart out to her, and the rest is history.
Now BlueseyQ, my point is this; There is no question in my mind that God had something to do with this. I prayed, and His response was swift and wonderful. My initial time in The Way was filled with wonderful times, great people, and many many incidents where God answered prayers and questions. It was good at that time, regardless of what was going on at the top. And Sunesis has mentioned that there were wonderful times then as well, and as a matter of fact, she knows the gal Ann Marie, who first "witnessed to me".
And so, was God involved in it? Some here will say no and that it was all and totally a scam, and that we were all stupid and just a bunch of suckers who took the bait like a catfish on a glob of worms. I for one do not hold that opinion, for there were too many acts of God found with that bunch that I shall never forget nor regret.
Do these things that I and many of us saw and experienced validate and exonerate The Way Ministry entirely? No, I would not conclude that. But for many of us, in our quest for Truth and enlightenment, it was exactly the place for us to be at the time we were there. I believe that I and my wife left at the right time, and that some who stayed then became sucked into the growing legalism and power trips that became more and more manifest.
As far as the things that Sunesis spoke of concerning the "dominance" over women, I didn't particularly see it, for, being a young man, I didn't feel it because I was/am a man. It wasn't directed at me, so I didn't feel it.
But she is right, it was there even back then, as I look back on it. In fact, Sunesis is an awesome guitar player. I mean world class and on the level with Beck, (Jeff Beck that is) Clapton, Stevie Ray and the rest. But, when a new guy named Harvey Platig came to Twig, who played very well, every one was all hyped up over how well Harvey played, as if Sunesis didn't exist. I saw this, but didn't think too much of it then, for, I was so idealistic, I didn't think anyone ever thought anything amiss. And so, I missed it. but I imagine that it was somewhat of a snub for Sunesis.
Oh well, just food for thought. I will say that I will never ever doubt that it was God who answered my prayer that day, and that He led me to the right place at that time in my life...
Pray for your folks. They need it, and remember that being forgiving is what our lord Jesus asked us to be. Certainly he went through the worst, and if he could live through it, then so can we.
Hey Oak. That "chick in the sailor suit" was to me nothing less than an angel of God. It was a beautiful thing man, and there was nothing carnal about it, ever...
Actually, I don't get here that often but when I do I see so many wonderful people with wonderful advice. I haven't closely read all the posts but I wanted to add something of my own.
I wasn't raised in the Way, although my mother got me in TWI when I was a teen and I later got my children involved and taught them the TWI doctrine and principles. It took an effort to get them back out of TWI when I left!
Fortunately, my mother got out shortly after I got involved. Also fortunately, she is a very educated woman and I was raised to embrace learning opportunities. I raised my children that way also. How was that you wanted to speak of greater things with your family and never had the opportunity. The good thing is that you've now had that experience and will never make the same mistake with your offspring/loved ones! There is so much to learn in this world and I don't care how wonderful a certain 'denomination' is, none of them are the be all to end all. There's ALWAYS more to learn!
Radar mentioned that there are a lot of people around here who were raised in the Way. A thought struck me when I read that, in light of your post. There should be a post/forum/or web site for those who were RAISED in TWI to discuss the issues that caused. Actually, I don't think an entire web site would be necessary, just a good thread or forum. You brought up some points that made me feel very thankful for my upbringing and I'm sure your posts could help many others.
I know, a 'God told me to tell you' situation, huh? LOL. Not really. I didn't say YOU need to start the thread/forum. I;m just saying that you and the others 'Raised Way' ("RW"s!) may have quite a bit to help one another out with. Of course, nothing beats good professional help if that's what's needed, but a group of people with the same concerns and interests can be very healing.
Thanks for posting, dear BQ. I hope your family sees the light one day. There's nothing more frustrating than seeing people stuck in something that is so misguided and wrong. Never give up hope on them. You just never know what may stick in their minds to turn on that light-bulb clarity! Just keep being the wonderful woman you are, with a sound and loving mind. If you were my daughter I'd be very proud of you indeed!
yes, being a child in the way had tremendous pressure. I was thinking about Heaven and Hell at age 7, while most kids were outside playing without a care in the world. Imagine having to learn how to SIT while you are in elementary school!! WTF!! But as a kid, you think all that is normal, you do not know anything else. Like getting swatted by perfect strangers with wooden spoons is normal!!
Moving a zillion times due to assignment changes in the Corps is NOT healthy for a child's development and social status!! Having to make brand new friends every 3 to 5 years is a pain in the foot!! But i tell you what, it builds character. Ive had a very unorthodox upbringing, something i would liken to a travelling band of gypsies who speak in tounges. Forget about bringing friends over when your house is set up for PFAL 24-7 and the only music you are allowed to listen to is branded and joyful noise.
Athletes of the Spirit was a great thing to watch as a kid, because lets face it, all children of Corps are "spiritually mature enough" to handle it. I especially liked the pink devil spirits acting out sex on the stage, that was GREAT!! More things to think about, like how devil spirits rule the world, and the devil is only a cartoon blob.
I look back on the whole way experience, and it is bittersweet. Many, many great people with the best of intentions. As i became older, i think i outgrew the way doctrines. too many questions, and not enough answers. too much hypocrisy, not enough signs, miracles and wonders. too much spoon fed right wing politics, not enough activism to better the world. It seems like all these good intentions folks had, really paved the road to hell, because that's where the Way seems to be headed these days.
diazbro - the Whiteside book sounds interesting ... thanks for explaining it.
Johnny Lingo - Thanks for your post - very interesting and heartfelt story. I wish I had more time to respond but am on my way out of town for the weekend. (Camping trip.) Have a wonderful weekend!
LearnedTooLate - Hi! Thanks for your post and encouragement! I think that's a great idea! I wonder if there are enough of us. More later when I get back in town ....
As i became older, i think i outgrew the way doctrines. too many questions, and not enough answers. too much hypocrisy, not enough signs, miracles and wonders. too much spoon fed right wing politics, not enough activism to better the world.
Just a bit of whimsical alternate history, oh husband of the ten cow woman ; - )
I just wonder sometimes whether God was REALLY answering our prayers when Way people showed up at JUST the right time. Many of us look at our early Way days as godly, but something that we outgrew, or got out of when it got UNgodly.
In my alternate history version (ever read Harry Turtledove?), the person God sent to answer your prayers was late, and was frustrated that you got witnessed to before he got there.
Not a cut against your friend Anne Marie, or you, or your belief that it was "of God" that you hooked up with The Way. Just another look at "witnessing" through the eyes of a science fiction fan.
PT me if you need any more JL, I am currently unable to START PT's, but I can participate in them.
Quote: Of course anyone who was active at that time no doubt remembers the alleged attempt on the US government and how "doctor" had gotten this heavy revvy that there would be an overthrow attempt......
Of course nothing happened and then it was like "thank god for doctor weirwille" who got the revelation ......
Nice trick huh. Create an impending false emergency and when nothing happens take credit for preventng it.
I've got more to say about this but thats enough for now.
Good God. Us WMHs are on the bottom of the food chain practically everywhere else.
You wanna explain this ?
Should not be necessary to explain anything; it's pretty blatant, but anyway.....
So called 'political correctness' is a blatant attack on the freedom of speech of white, male, heterosexual, Christian, conservatives. Dusty Baker can say that white ball players aren't as good as black or latin players and he doesn't lose his job; Fuzzy Zoeller can't even say fried chicken and collard greens in the same breath as Tiger Woods without getting in trouble. Dennis Rodman says any black basketball player is better than any white basketball player; Deion Sanders can pour water on Tim McCarver; Larry Johnson can speculate if Bill Walton's ancestors kept slaves; that's all good. Rush Limbaugh can't say "affirmative action" without getting forced out of his job.
A woman can wear any provocative clothing she wants on the job and that's NOT considered sexual harassment, but if a man says she looks nice, THAT'S sexual harassment and he can get wrote up or fired. Andrea Yates can premeditate and murder 5 children of her own and she's to be "pitied" like she 's the "victim". If a man hits a woman he can get several years in prison. Do you see a pattern yet? Do you really believe that white people are more racist than non white people? I think it's the opposite. Do you really think that men are more dangerous to society than women?
Keep this in mind: they can get some of us fired from jobs or something like that, but we can still vote, can't we? Did you notice the results of the last presidential election? What are you going to do? Exterminate us?
Jonny Lingo: Thanks for sharing your story. I agree that God, who created the heavens and the Earth, must surely be able to answer a prayer without having someone come late (sorry, Oakspear, I just think God's timing is too perfect for your explanation). I think you put very well the way I feel ...
I was born and raised in twi. Parents were way corpse my whole life.
I loved it as a kid. It made me feel pretty special.
As I got older I got more commited. I was a nut for it.
I thought people were treated bad because they desereved it. Until my family started getting shot at(spiritually of course).
That confused me, because my family treated people well, and just because we didn't abuse the hell out of people verbally my parents were considered soft (not part of a lean mean fighting machine).
So our family of six was split up. Parents were dishonorably dropped from corpse, and our parents were forced to go to the branch coordinators fellowship, while all the kids were forced to go to another fellowship (divide and conqer).
For a while i started to think my parents were screwed up.
Then the lawsuits hit. Depresion followed. I was confused.. for 2 years.. then my parents finally had a family meeting.. said, "we're done with this." I said thank god, we all got out.
i hate the way for trying to destroy my family, i could care less about what they think about debt or being on time,, i dont give a **** if they are 100% right doctrinally... They tried to destroy my family. I hate them passionatly for that.
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Sunesis
Hi BluzieQ. The first time I sat through the Christian family and sex class, I think I was 19 or 20. When it came to the submission part of the woman, I literally got up and walked out. They tried to stop me on the way out the door. I think I'm one of the few women who did that. As I said, I had been with TWI since 15 in 1970, so in those few years, I had seen first hand the "submission" doctrine at work in some early corps couples and others.
Do a search on Google for the "Jesus Movement" or "Jesus Freaks" - there's a wonderful article I found with a great history and overview, plus other great stuff.
Your parents were at Kent State huh? That explains a lot.
I know young people today think this country is on the verge of revolution, but I think the reason us "older" folks seem so calm about it, is because nothing yet has compared with the times in the late '60s-early to mid-70s, when you really did have white college kid bombmaking groups, campuses were being bombed, banks, etc. I was reading recently how many bombs were exploded during that time period by our own "homegrown" terroists - it was amazing. the peaceful hippy movement didn't bring about the "revolution" as hoped, so it got more and more violent. Most young kids have no idea about this.
So, I guess, since we don't have the street chaos, cities burning (I grew up right outside of NYC - I remember the race riots), leaders being assinated and on and on, we're all pretty calm. I still have not seen in my lifetime days like those. It was like, us young 12 and 13 year olds were totally into the hippy, peace, love, pot thing and life was "groovy" - but it was like there was always this sinister music playing softly in the background you couldn't shake.
OK, enough about that - hey when I was your age...
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Belle
Neat stuff, y'all! I love it when you share about your lives growing up and the teen angst and all the stuff going on. It truly is fascinating and so hard to imagine in this apathetic age.
Ask a question BluzieQ, and look at all the goodies you get in addition to answers to your question.
:)--> Thanks for posting!
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johniam
Good God. Us WMHs are on the bottom of the food chain practically everywhere else.
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diazbro
The Whiteside book was presented as an alleged "slice of life" look at what happens at HQ on a daily basis. It was held up as an example of the so called abundant life and lots of leaders in the field would use the book as a basis for embellishment to get people to wonder what it would be like to "serve" at HQ and be so close to "doctor" and be really "tapped in". I was told that I could never truly experience the abundant life until I made a trip to HQ and "spent time there" which of course was possible if you invested in the Way lifestyle and progressed in the programs.
Of course the "next best thing" was the ROA.
Conspicuously absent from the book are major details relating to the Doop/Heefner associations and resulting power struggles. I suspect that such information was far too real and nitty-gritty to be included in a book whose sole mission was to magnify TW and VPW. The book was very sanitized and free of anything but postives and praise for TW. It was hardly an unbiased look at TW - lets put it that way.
In general the book was touted as a source of inspiration and something to aspire to in our daily lives even if we couldn't be at HQ.
The book was used as a basis to launch into discussions relative to the signs and miracles which were supposedly a daily and routine occurrence at "HQ". The nature of the deliverance was of the "the blind could see " and the "lame could walk" variety. Of course once I took the time to go to "HQ" I didn't see any of this. I DID see lots of idealistic young people being irrepressibly optimistic about things and wanting so badly to make a difference. But I also saw this in communes and activist groups I had checked out previously. It was the same energy and desire to make a difference. But I never saw evidence of some utopian existence or bliss type of lifestyle depicted in the book. Nor did I see any of these "awesome miracles" that I was told happened on a daily basis. If they were happening then people were awfully quiet about them. Sure there were folks talking about how their "sore throat was healed" after someone prayed for them but in my book thats not a miracle. (Perhaps TWI cheapened the whole concept of miracle to lower people's standards as to what consitutes one).
People were so desperate to latch onto something meaningful and important that
they were willing to tolerate behavior from VPW and other Way leaders that the wouldn't tolerate from their best friends or blood family members. The promise of "something big happening" kept lots of folks on board. It was a complex time and lots of people felt like they had no control over their lives and if they could regain some confidence and personal power (real or imagined) by aligning themselves with a spiritual cause like TWI then that was good enough for many. I , like lots of folks, was in this category. So much of the growth associated with TWI was based on the ideals and optimism of a generation. If anything we were more likeminded prior to our Way experience than during or after. We were all after many of the same things and goals and TWI (as well as other alternative organizations) provided a seemingly good fit at least at the time. Too bad it didn't pan out...
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diazbro
You wanna explain this ?
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Georgio Jessio
Perfectly worded diazbro.
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J0nny Ling0
Hey there BluzieQ.
Nice of you to post here. I got in The Way when I was 18. And ya know, I am glad of my involvement with it. I had been to sea as a Merchant Marine for a couple of years, been overseas alot, and was the survivor of a near sinking in the North Atlantic during a terrible storm. A story in itself. But during that time of terror, I prayed to God that we could live and finally make it to a safe haven, which we did. We made it to Bermuda where we promptly got very drunk for a couple of days.
But I had not forgotten my promise to God that I would seek out others who believed in Him, should I have the chance to live. And, not long after that, while working on a riverboat/restaurant on the Potomac River in DC, I prayed again. I lived in the wheelhouse of this boat, and one night after a lot of soul searching I got on my knees and prayed to God and promised Him that I would keep my promise to Him and go to the church or whatever of the next Christian person I met. "You send 'em" I told Him, and "I would go with them".
I was tired of the worldliness of the World, and I wanted to be around people who cared about the things of God, about the things that mattered instead of just "things".
The very next day, while readying the Cruise Ship Dandy for our luncheon cruise, a radiant young woman came walking down the dock toward our gangway. She had on the cute blue and white sailors skirt and top that all of our cocktail waitresess wore, so I knew that she must be a new hire. Yes, she was a pretty red head, but there seemed to be something about her that was different. She seemed to have a shine, or an "aura" about her if you will. As I gave her a hand up the gangway, I said; "Welcome aboard the Cruise Ship Dandy m'amm", And she said; "Hya! My name's Ann Marie! What's your name?" And I said; "My name's Kevin, what's your name?" And she said brightly; "Ann Marie!"
Well, I felt really stupid to repeat my name twice, but, I was captivated by her evident glow of life, and since she seemed to have a New york accent, I asked her where she was from. She proceeded to tell me that she was from Rochester, New York, but that she had just come from Ohio to teach people about the "accuracy of God's Word and about the power of God". Well, this just blew my mind! I asked her if she also meant Jesus Christ, and she oh yes, defininetly.
And then I told her in excitement that I had prayed to God the night before, on my knees that if He would send me a Christian person, I would go to their church, and, I continued; "Here you are!" To which she replied; "I was just praying in this park nearby to send someone to me who wants to know about God's Word, and here you are! And we both embraced, and I got all choked up, and I sat her down at the bar and began to pour my heart out to her, and the rest is history.
Now BlueseyQ, my point is this; There is no question in my mind that God had something to do with this. I prayed, and His response was swift and wonderful. My initial time in The Way was filled with wonderful times, great people, and many many incidents where God answered prayers and questions. It was good at that time, regardless of what was going on at the top. And Sunesis has mentioned that there were wonderful times then as well, and as a matter of fact, she knows the gal Ann Marie, who first "witnessed to me".
And so, was God involved in it? Some here will say no and that it was all and totally a scam, and that we were all stupid and just a bunch of suckers who took the bait like a catfish on a glob of worms. I for one do not hold that opinion, for there were too many acts of God found with that bunch that I shall never forget nor regret.
Do these things that I and many of us saw and experienced validate and exonerate The Way Ministry entirely? No, I would not conclude that. But for many of us, in our quest for Truth and enlightenment, it was exactly the place for us to be at the time we were there. I believe that I and my wife left at the right time, and that some who stayed then became sucked into the growing legalism and power trips that became more and more manifest.
As far as the things that Sunesis spoke of concerning the "dominance" over women, I didn't particularly see it, for, being a young man, I didn't feel it because I was/am a man. It wasn't directed at me, so I didn't feel it.
But she is right, it was there even back then, as I look back on it. In fact, Sunesis is an awesome guitar player. I mean world class and on the level with Beck, (Jeff Beck that is) Clapton, Stevie Ray and the rest. But, when a new guy named Harvey Platig came to Twig, who played very well, every one was all hyped up over how well Harvey played, as if Sunesis didn't exist. I saw this, but didn't think too much of it then, for, I was so idealistic, I didn't think anyone ever thought anything amiss. And so, I missed it. but I imagine that it was somewhat of a snub for Sunesis.
Oh well, just food for thought. I will say that I will never ever doubt that it was God who answered my prayer that day, and that He led me to the right place at that time in my life...
Pray for your folks. They need it, and remember that being forgiving is what our lord Jesus asked us to be. Certainly he went through the worst, and if he could live through it, then so can we.
God bless you BluzieQ, and hey! I love your name!
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Oakspear
No disresect to your testimony LJ, but I had this mind picture of a Christian peering around, squinting into the distance:
"Crud, where IS that Jonny Lingo guy that God sent me to? Oh CRAP! There he goes with that chick in the sailor suit! Waaaaiiittt!!!!!"
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J0nny Ling0
Hey Oak. That "chick in the sailor suit" was to me nothing less than an angel of God. It was a beautiful thing man, and there was nothing carnal about it, ever...
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LearnedTooLate
BluzieQ,
Welcome from me, too!
Actually, I don't get here that often but when I do I see so many wonderful people with wonderful advice. I haven't closely read all the posts but I wanted to add something of my own.
I wasn't raised in the Way, although my mother got me in TWI when I was a teen and I later got my children involved and taught them the TWI doctrine and principles. It took an effort to get them back out of TWI when I left!
Fortunately, my mother got out shortly after I got involved. Also fortunately, she is a very educated woman and I was raised to embrace learning opportunities. I raised my children that way also. How was that you wanted to speak of greater things with your family and never had the opportunity. The good thing is that you've now had that experience and will never make the same mistake with your offspring/loved ones! There is so much to learn in this world and I don't care how wonderful a certain 'denomination' is, none of them are the be all to end all. There's ALWAYS more to learn!
Radar mentioned that there are a lot of people around here who were raised in the Way. A thought struck me when I read that, in light of your post. There should be a post/forum/or web site for those who were RAISED in TWI to discuss the issues that caused. Actually, I don't think an entire web site would be necessary, just a good thread or forum. You brought up some points that made me feel very thankful for my upbringing and I'm sure your posts could help many others.
I know, a 'God told me to tell you' situation, huh? LOL. Not really. I didn't say YOU need to start the thread/forum. I;m just saying that you and the others 'Raised Way' ("RW"s!) may have quite a bit to help one another out with. Of course, nothing beats good professional help if that's what's needed, but a group of people with the same concerns and interests can be very healing.
Thanks for posting, dear BQ. I hope your family sees the light one day. There's nothing more frustrating than seeing people stuck in something that is so misguided and wrong. Never give up hope on them. You just never know what may stick in their minds to turn on that light-bulb clarity! Just keep being the wonderful woman you are, with a sound and loving mind. If you were my daughter I'd be very proud of you indeed!
LRND2L8
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Thelema
yes, being a child in the way had tremendous pressure. I was thinking about Heaven and Hell at age 7, while most kids were outside playing without a care in the world. Imagine having to learn how to SIT while you are in elementary school!! WTF!! But as a kid, you think all that is normal, you do not know anything else. Like getting swatted by perfect strangers with wooden spoons is normal!!
Moving a zillion times due to assignment changes in the Corps is NOT healthy for a child's development and social status!! Having to make brand new friends every 3 to 5 years is a pain in the foot!! But i tell you what, it builds character. Ive had a very unorthodox upbringing, something i would liken to a travelling band of gypsies who speak in tounges. Forget about bringing friends over when your house is set up for PFAL 24-7 and the only music you are allowed to listen to is branded and joyful noise.
Athletes of the Spirit was a great thing to watch as a kid, because lets face it, all children of Corps are "spiritually mature enough" to handle it. I especially liked the pink devil spirits acting out sex on the stage, that was GREAT!! More things to think about, like how devil spirits rule the world, and the devil is only a cartoon blob.
I look back on the whole way experience, and it is bittersweet. Many, many great people with the best of intentions. As i became older, i think i outgrew the way doctrines. too many questions, and not enough answers. too much hypocrisy, not enough signs, miracles and wonders. too much spoon fed right wing politics, not enough activism to better the world. It seems like all these good intentions folks had, really paved the road to hell, because that's where the Way seems to be headed these days.
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dmiller
Childhood robbed.
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BluzieQ
diazbro - the Whiteside book sounds interesting ... thanks for explaining it.
Johnny Lingo - Thanks for your post - very interesting and heartfelt story. I wish I had more time to respond but am on my way out of town for the weekend. (Camping trip.) Have a wonderful weekend!
LearnedTooLate - Hi! Thanks for your post and encouragement! I think that's a great idea! I wonder if there are enough of us. More later when I get back in town ....
BQ
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BluzieQ
Thelema,
Very well said. My feelings exactly!
BQ
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Oakspear
Jonny Lingo:
Methinks you misunderstood me. I wasn't suggesting anything carnal.
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J0nny Ling0
Ok Oakspeare. Glad It was a misunderstanding. Sorry if I am a bit slow...So what did you mean?
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Oakspear
Just a bit of whimsical alternate history, oh husband of the ten cow woman ; - )
I just wonder sometimes whether God was REALLY answering our prayers when Way people showed up at JUST the right time. Many of us look at our early Way days as godly, but something that we outgrew, or got out of when it got UNgodly.
In my alternate history version (ever read Harry Turtledove?), the person God sent to answer your prayers was late, and was frustrated that you got witnessed to before he got there.
Not a cut against your friend Anne Marie, or you, or your belief that it was "of God" that you hooked up with The Way. Just another look at "witnessing" through the eyes of a science fiction fan.
PT me if you need any more JL, I am currently unable to START PT's, but I can participate in them.
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mell
Rascal- Thanks. I'll look through the archives when I get the chance.
Mell
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mell
Quote: Of course anyone who was active at that time no doubt remembers the alleged attempt on the US government and how "doctor" had gotten this heavy revvy that there would be an overthrow attempt......
Of course nothing happened and then it was like "thank god for doctor weirwille" who got the revelation ......
Nice trick huh. Create an impending false emergency and when nothing happens take credit for preventng it.
I've got more to say about this but thats enough for now.
Please say more! What was the attempt?
:)-->
Mell
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johniam
Should not be necessary to explain anything; it's pretty blatant, but anyway.....
So called 'political correctness' is a blatant attack on the freedom of speech of white, male, heterosexual, Christian, conservatives. Dusty Baker can say that white ball players aren't as good as black or latin players and he doesn't lose his job; Fuzzy Zoeller can't even say fried chicken and collard greens in the same breath as Tiger Woods without getting in trouble. Dennis Rodman says any black basketball player is better than any white basketball player; Deion Sanders can pour water on Tim McCarver; Larry Johnson can speculate if Bill Walton's ancestors kept slaves; that's all good. Rush Limbaugh can't say "affirmative action" without getting forced out of his job.
A woman can wear any provocative clothing she wants on the job and that's NOT considered sexual harassment, but if a man says she looks nice, THAT'S sexual harassment and he can get wrote up or fired. Andrea Yates can premeditate and murder 5 children of her own and she's to be "pitied" like she 's the "victim". If a man hits a woman he can get several years in prison. Do you see a pattern yet? Do you really believe that white people are more racist than non white people? I think it's the opposite. Do you really think that men are more dangerous to society than women?
Keep this in mind: they can get some of us fired from jobs or something like that, but we can still vote, can't we? Did you notice the results of the last presidential election? What are you going to do? Exterminate us?
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ToadFriend
Jonny Lingo: Thanks for sharing your story. I agree that God, who created the heavens and the Earth, must surely be able to answer a prayer without having someone come late (sorry, Oakspear, I just think God's timing is too perfect for your explanation). I think you put very well the way I feel ...
TF
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waterbuffalo
Oakspear,
I believe God used a lot of us in twi to help other people. The problem was, many of us didn't know when to help ourselves and get out!
Toadfriend, I agree. He couldn't wait until He found perfect people, so He used willing people like us.
wb
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nandon
I was born and raised in twi. Parents were way corpse my whole life.
I loved it as a kid. It made me feel pretty special.
As I got older I got more commited. I was a nut for it.
I thought people were treated bad because they desereved it. Until my family started getting shot at(spiritually of course).
That confused me, because my family treated people well, and just because we didn't abuse the hell out of people verbally my parents were considered soft (not part of a lean mean fighting machine).
So our family of six was split up. Parents were dishonorably dropped from corpse, and our parents were forced to go to the branch coordinators fellowship, while all the kids were forced to go to another fellowship (divide and conqer).
For a while i started to think my parents were screwed up.
Then the lawsuits hit. Depresion followed. I was confused.. for 2 years.. then my parents finally had a family meeting.. said, "we're done with this." I said thank god, we all got out.
i hate the way for trying to destroy my family, i could care less about what they think about debt or being on time,, i dont give a **** if they are 100% right doctrinally... They tried to destroy my family. I hate them passionatly for that.
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justloafing
Nandon it is storys like your that makes me hate them even more. I am glad you and your family is out and I hope you are all doing okay.
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