"Then they shouldn't have volunteered. They didn't have to. They could have just been Joe Believers."
What, you think Joe Believers didn't have guns to their heads? How about your spouse, children, parents, who are in? Not to mention all the fear motivated teachings.
After I left TWI, but while I was still married to my ex, the pressure he was under to choose between his "possessed" wife and children and the GOD of TWI - pressure applied directly be leader**** - was so intense that my ex put a loaded gun in his mouth. I'm thankful he didn't pull the trigger.
The pressure was so intense that it pretty much pushed him right over the edge and into physical violence.
I knew it would go that way when I left TWI too. That was just one of several guns to my head. I knew if I left TWI it would end my marriage and leave my children without a father under the same roof as them.
I did get my ex to go to marriage counseling with me after I left, but it all went in one ear and out the other, cause afterall the counselor "didn't know or believe The Word".
His life is still a mess.
Now does all the blame lay at the feet of TWI? Absolutely not. But there certainly is some that belongs there, starting with the pressure they put on people to mark and avoid anyone who leaves, even if they are married to them. And how about the pressure they put on a man to control his wife - now tell just how does one person control another person, short of physical violence? Persuade and convince, yes, but control?????
Thank God mine is not and my children have Sushi as a wonderful example of what a loving man should be.
I suppose it could be considered under the auspices of abs being used for the outreach of God`s word.....
Yeah I can see that.
Women who made a serious commitment to move the Word and that commitment was paramount above everything else, join a program wherein you can't have children.
These women did not want to have children.
They wanted to move the Word, above everything else.
Otherwise, why join the Way Corps?
And so they get pregnant in a program wherein they can't remain pregnant and strongly desire to remain in the program, a program where movement of the Word was paramount above everything else.
I think these women who had their abortions paid for where treated VERY well because they had a choice.
Some of our collective abs helped them continue their commitment.
They had a choice to remain in the greatest program they believed in at that time, to have a second chance to remain in the program.
Their potential children were secondary to their first priority, which was love God/neighbor and do the Word, which at that time in that circumstance meant to stay in the Way Corps.
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. II Timothy 3:1-8 KJV
This is, always was and always will be twi in a nutshell.
TWI was founded in strife of brother against brother (without natural affection and disobedient of parents); has a legacy of adultery, fornication, rape, incest and pedophilia (lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God); and publicly scorned all other churches (despisers of those that are good). To say the least.
I could go on, however this is not my point.
My point is one I've made before and apparently need to make again:
TWI took it upon itself to become 'leadership' over God's people. Once twi did this, twi was responsible to lead into righteousness...and those who followed were responsible to follow.
For twi to now say, "There was no gun to your head" is the same as Adam saying, "But the woman you gave me..." God set Adam to lead Eve, not vice versa. Adam was held responsible. TWI took it upon itself and proclaimed that God set them to lead His people, not vice versa.
TWI will be held responsible.
It has already begun.
************************************
OM, the thing that gets to me all the time about you is that I keep forgetting that you were NOT one of the 'rank and file' folks...that you WERE one of the folks that did things like run around with the old vicster in the motorcoach...and read and answer his mail (so you've claimed).
It's finally dawned on me that you, by your own free will, were a functioning part of the behind-the-scenes slime.
It's finally dawned on me that you REFUSE to be held accountable in any way, shape or form.
So your only other alternative is to deny, deny deny...and blame and rationalize.
Well, now that I understand this, I can freely be angry with you without any guilt.
It wasn`t about a strong desire to remain in the program....it was about not being allowed to leave when ones personal circumstances changed....be it due to family emergency, health issues or unplanned pregnancy.
To leave meant to put yourself and loved ones in mortal danger....to stay meant you must destroy your unborn child...some choice....
To leave meant disgrace and shame, excommunication in many instances...to stay all one had to do was have a sterile little procedure to rid one`s self of a paracite...
What self respecting doulos would allow satan to trick them out of their commitment by such a minor thing?
To put that cluster of not live cells above your commitment to God was considered idolotry.
Agreed cm, it has strongly reminded me of the aztecs (or was it incas?) who sacraficed their babies on a regular basis to their God`s in order to gain favor.
Mr. Hamm... can I tell you about regrets 20 years later?
One day you are walking along and you realise that babies have oxygen in the womb...they breath, they react to stimuli, they are startled, they will seek out the source of sound......and it finally dawns on you....twi`s *first* breath teaching was false...
You lose your breath, you become nausious, when the realization comes crashing into your brain....that you suddenly no longer believe that the cluster of cells was *not alive*...the horror and revulsion make you retch...you don`t want to contemplate what the implications of your actions are....
Hysteria generally follows....and lest some think I am being mellow dramatic...I have spoken to SEVERAL other women with the same reactions...
In the end...you just carry a sick feeling in the pit of your stomache for the rest of your life knowing that you personally murdered your child in service to God ...an action he neither wanted or needed us to preform in order for him to be our first priority...
The single line that I have heard the most from other women in this situation is....
Yeah, I KNOW God will forgive me...but how the hell will *I*?
I have had more than one poster pm me and say....yeah, I was one of those who was ordered to murder my baby in twi too..
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rascal
I suppose it could be considered under the auspices of abs being used for the outreach of God`s word.....
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Ham
Yep. That's one way of dealing with up and coming mini-mogs.. despicable.
And on the surface, they taught using it as birth control was WRONG.
On the other side of the mouth though.. whole different side of the universe I guess.
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Ham
"Your ABS at WORK"
Abortions
three ways for MOG
shopping sprees for mogette
mogette's cat(s!) when others were forbidden..
Partial payment for some people's "bum's rush" out of headquarters..
and a gun to our head, to ensure we didn't complain about anything.
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Ham
I would like to see that explanation, how paying for an abortion is any way even remotely related to "moving da verd".
Unless it was for "mr" moggy- can't move the verd with five or six (maybe more) kids all over the country..
despicable.
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rascal
I was being facitious...I hope you know.
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Ham
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CM
sorry - been away and this thread grew!
i had a bm
:)-->
anyway,
here's another bullet in the gun to the head...
"the hedge of protection"
probably already discussed but it was used in so many ways for fear.
basically everything was fear, fear, fear
a good way to figure out what was wrong teaching
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Abigail
"Then they shouldn't have volunteered. They didn't have to. They could have just been Joe Believers."
What, you think Joe Believers didn't have guns to their heads? How about your spouse, children, parents, who are in? Not to mention all the fear motivated teachings.
After I left TWI, but while I was still married to my ex, the pressure he was under to choose between his "possessed" wife and children and the GOD of TWI - pressure applied directly be leader**** - was so intense that my ex put a loaded gun in his mouth. I'm thankful he didn't pull the trigger.
The pressure was so intense that it pretty much pushed him right over the edge and into physical violence.
I knew it would go that way when I left TWI too. That was just one of several guns to my head. I knew if I left TWI it would end my marriage and leave my children without a father under the same roof as them.
I did get my ex to go to marriage counseling with me after I left, but it all went in one ear and out the other, cause afterall the counselor "didn't know or believe The Word".
His life is still a mess.
Now does all the blame lay at the feet of TWI? Absolutely not. But there certainly is some that belongs there, starting with the pressure they put on people to mark and avoid anyone who leaves, even if they are married to them. And how about the pressure they put on a man to control his wife - now tell just how does one person control another person, short of physical violence? Persuade and convince, yes, but control?????
Thank God mine is not and my children have Sushi as a wonderful example of what a loving man should be.
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A la prochaine
Oldies,
What a sad day it is.
:(-->
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Bramble
When my husband talked to the LC about our leaving TWI, the LC's big gun was "What about your children? You'll be outside the hedge of protection."
What a cruel group.
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WeWereScammed
BULL!
They were "released" and "booted out" in an atmoshere of incredible fear and condemation.
Separated from friends and family, embarassed, and hurt.
Thank God for the continuous complainers at GSC who have spoken out. The light has been turned on.
Oldiesman you are just sore because your idol VPW has had his SCAM exposed.
We Were Scammed.
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WeWereScammed
"all other decisions were made by free will choice"
- - - FREE WILL CHOICE BASED ON FALSE INFORMATION [ie We Were Scammed]
"I think these are all gobbledygook rationalizations."
- - - DUH!! Of course you do.
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oldiesman
Women who made a serious commitment to move the Word and that commitment was paramount above everything else, join a program wherein you can't have children.
These women did not want to have children.
They wanted to move the Word, above everything else.
Otherwise, why join the Way Corps?
And so they get pregnant in a program wherein they can't remain pregnant and strongly desire to remain in the program, a program where movement of the Word was paramount above everything else.
I think these women who had their abortions paid for where treated VERY well because they had a choice.
Some of our collective abs helped them continue their commitment.
They had a choice to remain in the greatest program they believed in at that time, to have a second chance to remain in the program.
Their potential children were secondary to their first priority, which was love God/neighbor and do the Word, which at that time in that circumstance meant to stay in the Way Corps.
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CoolWaters
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. II Timothy 3:1-8 KJV
This is, always was and always will be twi in a nutshell.
TWI was founded in strife of brother against brother (without natural affection and disobedient of parents); has a legacy of adultery, fornication, rape, incest and pedophilia (lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God); and publicly scorned all other churches (despisers of those that are good). To say the least.
I could go on, however this is not my point.
My point is one I've made before and apparently need to make again:
TWI took it upon itself to become 'leadership' over God's people. Once twi did this, twi was responsible to lead into righteousness...and those who followed were responsible to follow.
For twi to now say, "There was no gun to your head" is the same as Adam saying, "But the woman you gave me..." God set Adam to lead Eve, not vice versa. Adam was held responsible. TWI took it upon itself and proclaimed that God set them to lead His people, not vice versa.
TWI will be held responsible.
It has already begun.
************************************
OM, the thing that gets to me all the time about you is that I keep forgetting that you were NOT one of the 'rank and file' folks...that you WERE one of the folks that did things like run around with the old vicster in the motorcoach...and read and answer his mail (so you've claimed).
It's finally dawned on me that you, by your own free will, were a functioning part of the behind-the-scenes slime.
It's finally dawned on me that you REFUSE to be held accountable in any way, shape or form.
So your only other alternative is to deny, deny deny...and blame and rationalize.
Well, now that I understand this, I can freely be angry with you without any guilt.
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oldiesman
Coolwaters, you are a speedy typist.
:)-->
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rascal
It wasn`t about a strong desire to remain in the program....it was about not being allowed to leave when ones personal circumstances changed....be it due to family emergency, health issues or unplanned pregnancy.
To leave meant to put yourself and loved ones in mortal danger....to stay meant you must destroy your unborn child...some choice....
To leave meant disgrace and shame, excommunication in many instances...to stay all one had to do was have a sterile little procedure to rid one`s self of a paracite...
What self respecting doulos would allow satan to trick them out of their commitment by such a minor thing?
To put that cluster of not live cells above your commitment to God was considered idolotry.
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Ham
At the very least, the most loving, kind, compassionate thing for the bastards to say would have been:
"Go in PEACE, and come back when and/or if you can".
"We still love you" would be appropriate, but who can expect THAT big of a miracle..
But nooooooooooooo.
Just "lop off" the little "inconvenience"..
After all, we ALL know its no worse than having a mole removed, or something.. ptooie.
One thing I can say, twenty years later, people don't have regrets about having a mole removed.
What friggin idiots.
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Ham
If what they teach about karma and reincarnation is actually true, I pray that some among us will come back as WOMEN. Really.
Can't put yourself in their shoes? maybe we can fix that little problem..
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rascal
I gotta say oldies, your whole post is really chilling.
I cannot imagine that God was pleased when we destroyed our unborn children because he was our first priority...
I cannot imagine that he was pleased when we abandoned our family members in need because he was our first priority...
I cannot imagine that he was pleased when we booted our children from the home because he was our first priority.
We did great harm and evil because God was our first priority...something stinks to high heaven :-(
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CM
sounds an awful lot like how the first born were buried in the foundations of buildings built by worshipers of demons
sorry, but that looks like what it was and is
Life not celebrated but condemned
couldn't help but to respond
time to see
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rascal
Agreed cm, it has strongly reminded me of the aztecs (or was it incas?) who sacraficed their babies on a regular basis to their God`s in order to gain favor.
It was an honor I suppose.
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Ham
Yep.. just as evil as sacrificing kids to Molech..
Pretty damn sinister.
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rascal
Mr. Hamm... can I tell you about regrets 20 years later?
One day you are walking along and you realise that babies have oxygen in the womb...they breath, they react to stimuli, they are startled, they will seek out the source of sound......and it finally dawns on you....twi`s *first* breath teaching was false...
You lose your breath, you become nausious, when the realization comes crashing into your brain....that you suddenly no longer believe that the cluster of cells was *not alive*...the horror and revulsion make you retch...you don`t want to contemplate what the implications of your actions are....
Hysteria generally follows....and lest some think I am being mellow dramatic...I have spoken to SEVERAL other women with the same reactions...
In the end...you just carry a sick feeling in the pit of your stomache for the rest of your life knowing that you personally murdered your child in service to God ...an action he neither wanted or needed us to preform in order for him to be our first priority...
The single line that I have heard the most from other women in this situation is....
Yeah, I KNOW God will forgive me...but how the hell will *I*?
I have had more than one poster pm me and say....yeah, I was one of those who was ordered to murder my baby in twi too..
THAT is how we feel 20 years after the fact.
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oldiesman
Dang Mr. Hammeroni you just made me spit coffee all over my business shirt.
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