oh --- and a ps. here --- the greatest extortion (again my IMO) that twi ever exerted was not in charging for the class (though that ranks right up there), but rather in the ABS that followed that funneled money into their coffers, and did nothing but entitle the folks at the helm specifically, and did nothing for humanity in general.
When I reflect on my way years,I think the thing I'm most embarrassed about,or ashamed of,is that I knew and employed every argument,or justification,for charging for the plaf and the other classes...No matter which way you slice it,there is no way God,or Jesus,or Abraham,or Aquilla,or Priscilla or John the Baptist or any other holy person in the Bible would charge people to teach them,or convey to them,God's will...except maybe that old testament guy with the talking a$$...
For the way people,it was "believing equals receiving"....For the way ministry,it was "charging a minimimum required donation equals receiving"...The embarrassing thing for me is that it was so blantantly obvious that the way ministry in policy didn't practice the very fundamental "truths" that they taught and expected of their followers,yet I still zealously defended their money-fleecing practices...
A workman is worthy of his reward?....Then I should have gotten paid at least a couple of hundred bucks a week for working the word three times a week to teach twig,undershepherding all the foul balls through the palf class,ministering to people(after all,I took a special training class to learn how to do that) and all the other work of the ministry that I did that made me more blessed than I already was...Shoot,I collected garbage for ten years for free at the rock of ages...How's come I didn't get to charge a minimum required donation to coordinate trash pickup?...I should have gotten paid at least what the garboligists out in "the world" were earning...After all,I was collecting trash with the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation...
If what Wierwille had was a gift from God to the church,i.e.,a ministry of an apostle,then he had absolutely no business charging for it...So,was he charging for his research time?...You know,those twelve years where he did basically nothing but research the word from eight o'clock in the morning 'til two,three o'clock the next morning...
If the ministry wasn't greedy when it came to money,it certainly was obsessed with money and charging for everything...Kinda like today's cell phone companies...They lay awake at night and try to figure out new ways of getting money out of their people...This finally dawned on me,as if I had a religous experience,or something,when I was instructing one of those old classes that Walter Cummins taught...There was Walter,huge bowtie,wavy,combed-back hair and pencil mustache,teaching the way tree,or something,on a ten year old grainy,badly colored betamax video in a believer's own hired house...It came time to hand out the syllabai....One god damned sheet of paper...copied,no doubt,on one of the IBM copiers in the OSC building...Handing out that one piece of paper "class syllabus" to those grads who paid $40 for the privelege of sitting through it was probably one of the most humiliating experiences I had in the way...That was the last time I ever took a plugged nickel from a follower of the way...
It may be a bit much. I think $50 to $75 is good. I understand their logic in some ways. I sell payroll for a careeer. My company charges a minimum of $100 to setup a payroll account. The cost covers the time & attention needed by our staff. Additionally, it gives the end user of our product/service more of a reason to go thru with the service since they've invested something. Typically, more people who have this fee waived do not go thru with the service.
So something to show commitment & cover materials is good, but one has to examine it & be sure they are not going overboard.
Just a little food for thought. 100 dollars today equals about 50 dollars back in the late 70s, when many of us took the class ;) To take any class for 100 dollars today would be a bargain. Now paying to take a bible class, well it depends. It's not untypical for any Christian denomination to charge a fee to take their Sunday school classes. I know when I grew up and was taking Cathechism classes, it was about 40 dollars for the whole year. Of course my father paid for those clasees. However when I sat through a 4 week seminar by the Seventh-Day Adventists several years ago, those classes were free of charge. Unlike PFAL, these sessions only lasted about an hour and then there was a little fellowshipping after the class. Needless to say, I never made any commitments to the Adventists, but I did enjoy their company.
Now paying to take a bible class, well it depends. It's not untypical for any Christian denomination to charge a fee to take their Sunday school classes.
Hmmmmmm. I always though Sunday School classes were free.
but then again -- that is just my experience, and perception.
It's not untypical for any Christian denomination to charge a fee to take their Sunday school classes.
It's not typical for any Christian denomination churches I've been to lately (and I've been to quite a few). Sunday School and Worship Services are absolutely free.
I took the class in July of 1975...it cost me $85. A few months later, it went up to $100.
The next year Veepee raised the price to $200! (it eventually went back to $100)...I remember Veepee explaining why he raised it to $200...He said that people were upset that he raised it from $85 to $100...his response, which was angrily said, was (and I'm paraphrasing here) "So, you didn't like me raising it 15 bucks? Ok baby, next year it's gonna double to 200 buck! It's a challenge to your believing!"
There's a reason why we call him the grifter...he was slick. He said it with a straight face and even stormed out of the room when he finished saying it...the waybrained minions sat there with their mouths agape, believing that the "MOG" had just "spoken for God"...meanwhile in the back room, Vic was tipping back another drambuie, winking at Howard and saying "this oughta help with that new college we're buying in Kansas, by the way Howie, ya got me some fresh meat waiting in the back of the motorcoach?"
It's not typical for any Christian denomination churches I've been to lately (and I've been to quite a few). Sunday School and Worship Services are absolutely free.
Gee Belle, I must have been going to the same 'quite a few' churches as you because I've not seen charges for classes in these churches either.
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Outin88!
If da class was free, anyone who was hungering and thirsting for God's word (not that I'm eqating pfal with Gods word) would have stuck with it.
The only point in charging money for it, imo was so TWI would get their cash.
And of course he had to include a copy of "Christians should be prosperous" Gotta make sure these new grads would tithe don't cha know!
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dmiller
oh --- and a ps. here --- the greatest extortion (again my IMO) that twi ever exerted was not in charging for the class (though that ranks right up there), but rather in the ABS that followed that funneled money into their coffers, and did nothing but entitle the folks at the helm specifically, and did nothing for humanity in general.
David
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simonzelotes
When I reflect on my way years,I think the thing I'm most embarrassed about,or ashamed of,is that I knew and employed every argument,or justification,for charging for the plaf and the other classes...No matter which way you slice it,there is no way God,or Jesus,or Abraham,or Aquilla,or Priscilla or John the Baptist or any other holy person in the Bible would charge people to teach them,or convey to them,God's will...except maybe that old testament guy with the talking a$$...
For the way people,it was "believing equals receiving"....For the way ministry,it was "charging a minimimum required donation equals receiving"...The embarrassing thing for me is that it was so blantantly obvious that the way ministry in policy didn't practice the very fundamental "truths" that they taught and expected of their followers,yet I still zealously defended their money-fleecing practices...
A workman is worthy of his reward?....Then I should have gotten paid at least a couple of hundred bucks a week for working the word three times a week to teach twig,undershepherding all the foul balls through the palf class,ministering to people(after all,I took a special training class to learn how to do that) and all the other work of the ministry that I did that made me more blessed than I already was...Shoot,I collected garbage for ten years for free at the rock of ages...How's come I didn't get to charge a minimum required donation to coordinate trash pickup?...I should have gotten paid at least what the garboligists out in "the world" were earning...After all,I was collecting trash with the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation...
If what Wierwille had was a gift from God to the church,i.e.,a ministry of an apostle,then he had absolutely no business charging for it...So,was he charging for his research time?...You know,those twelve years where he did basically nothing but research the word from eight o'clock in the morning 'til two,three o'clock the next morning...
If the ministry wasn't greedy when it came to money,it certainly was obsessed with money and charging for everything...Kinda like today's cell phone companies...They lay awake at night and try to figure out new ways of getting money out of their people...This finally dawned on me,as if I had a religous experience,or something,when I was instructing one of those old classes that Walter Cummins taught...There was Walter,huge bowtie,wavy,combed-back hair and pencil mustache,teaching the way tree,or something,on a ten year old grainy,badly colored betamax video in a believer's own hired house...It came time to hand out the syllabai....One god damned sheet of paper...copied,no doubt,on one of the IBM copiers in the OSC building...Handing out that one piece of paper "class syllabus" to those grads who paid $40 for the privelege of sitting through it was probably one of the most humiliating experiences I had in the way...That was the last time I ever took a plugged nickel from a follower of the way...
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Brother Speed
when I took piffle it was 40 bucks, now its 100 bucks?
sounds like S.I.T. is also subject to inflation.
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Vyctorya911
It may be a bit much. I think $50 to $75 is good. I understand their logic in some ways. I sell payroll for a careeer. My company charges a minimum of $100 to setup a payroll account. The cost covers the time & attention needed by our staff. Additionally, it gives the end user of our product/service more of a reason to go thru with the service since they've invested something. Typically, more people who have this fee waived do not go thru with the service.
So something to show commitment & cover materials is good, but one has to examine it & be sure they are not going overboard.
Vyctorya
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Bramble
I took Pfal in 1980, it was $200.
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CKnapp3
Just a little food for thought. 100 dollars today equals about 50 dollars back in the late 70s, when many of us took the class ;) To take any class for 100 dollars today would be a bargain. Now paying to take a bible class, well it depends. It's not untypical for any Christian denomination to charge a fee to take their Sunday school classes. I know when I grew up and was taking Cathechism classes, it was about 40 dollars for the whole year. Of course my father paid for those clasees. However when I sat through a 4 week seminar by the Seventh-Day Adventists several years ago, those classes were free of charge. Unlike PFAL, these sessions only lasted about an hour and then there was a little fellowshipping after the class. Needless to say, I never made any commitments to the Adventists, but I did enjoy their company.
Chuck
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dmiller
Hmmmmmm. I always though Sunday School classes were free.
but then again -- that is just my experience, and perception.
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Belle
It's not typical for any Christian denomination churches I've been to lately (and I've been to quite a few). Sunday School and Worship Services are absolutely free.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I took the class in July of 1975...it cost me $85. A few months later, it went up to $100.
The next year Veepee raised the price to $200! (it eventually went back to $100)...I remember Veepee explaining why he raised it to $200...He said that people were upset that he raised it from $85 to $100...his response, which was angrily said, was (and I'm paraphrasing here) "So, you didn't like me raising it 15 bucks? Ok baby, next year it's gonna double to 200 buck! It's a challenge to your believing!"
There's a reason why we call him the grifter...he was slick. He said it with a straight face and even stormed out of the room when he finished saying it...the waybrained minions sat there with their mouths agape, believing that the "MOG" had just "spoken for God"...meanwhile in the back room, Vic was tipping back another drambuie, winking at Howard and saying "this oughta help with that new college we're buying in Kansas, by the way Howie, ya got me some fresh meat waiting in the back of the motorcoach?"
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oldiesman
I think $200 was way too much and was unfair since folks also paid $40, $60, $100.
I think $40.00 would have been enough for the materials and commitment end of the deal.
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Brother Speed
Gee Belle, I must have been going to the same 'quite a few' churches as you because I've not seen charges for classes in these churches either.
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Belle
Well, gee, Brother Speed, why didn't you come say "Hi" or at least wave? :D
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Outin88.
I figure that if twi had charged at cost what the books/syllabus would have cost them, the most I can see TWI charging for PFAL would be $20.
I think they just wanted to make a profit. And imo, it's not godly charging for the word!
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Brother Speed
It's not godly to charge for an unresearched and plagiarized book either. That's not my opinion. It's just not godly.
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Ham
Yeah, nothing like the realization that you've been sold stolen property..
Yuck.
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