Yes...Of course. We were led to believe that twi was a noble and godly institution. It was a "magic" time in our lives...when we thought that we found something that was from God and provided real answers for our lives...
...Unfortunately, this concept of "I loved what I thought it was", was the very thing that allowed grifter Vic and king okie to "rule over us" and take advantage of our pure hearts. Had we believed that we were involved with a secular organization, we never would have fallen for the con.
That's why I take exception to those who lie in God's name.
I love reading the "my story" accounts people post! O&A's post was especially nice to read. :)
I think because of when I got in (1993), or because of my mindset....maybe a combination of both: But, TWI was never "my ministry". It was a source for more Biblical answers than I had ever gotten before. I think part of that was because I was in a place in my life where I truly WANTED answers, not that TWI was the only place with the answers.
Maybe I was selfish, but I considered TWI another church - one with volumes of information - but a church nonetheless. I felt like the Baptist Church I grew up in was "my" church, but never felt that way about TWI. TWI was more of a disciplinarian or substitute parent than a warm, fuzzy, cozy place to be.
Surely any 'godly' person would want at least some of the good that was in there !
sure they would....whatta pity that the *good that was there* was mearly an illusion for the evil to hide behind....and manipulate with......
Too damned bad twi wsn`t what we thought it was....because as many *Godly* people that selflessly donated millions of hours of selfless service and millions of dollars in money.....we could have accomplished quite a positive impact in the world.
Groucho is right...we were lied to, and stolen from in GOD`S name......absolutely despicable imo.
The 'good that was there' were the Millions of people whose HEARTS and MINDS were in the right place and they honestly and without greed or malice actually LIVED GOD'S LOVE.
IF we could gather together all of the Believers who made TWI what is once WAS, we'd have a sweet, sweet, fellowship?
I for one miss the beautiful, 'Christ in You' people. I miss how we all use to bring out the best in one another. Minister to those who were hurting. I miss the healing power of the Word. I miss the fellowship with genuine godly people.
Not having gone in the Corp, I didn't have to endure things that others did.
I hope we don't have to wait for the 'gathering together' to experience the Household at its best., we could use that kind of daily influence now.
Of course they touted the 'its your ministry' line.....If its to be its up to me, all that hype.....I gave every last spare dime , ounce of strength, and second of my time to them because I was under the illusion that it actually was 'mine'. It seemed good at the time--and I sold out to it and loved it-- but when the rubber hit the road it was all BS, it was all a lie.
So, no-although I met some wonderful people in TWI-I dont hold onto that feeling anymore, long for the old days, buy into BS , wish to be decieved or manipulated for the aggrandizement of a few, or want to live in an illusion anymore.
"Your Ministry" is now patrolled by security to keep you out.
Any 'godly person' or 'person who wanted to see God work in theri lives' ,who had the least bit of maturity that some of us may have lacked at the time would have seen it for the crock and scam that it was, stopped perpetuating the darkness and given their lives to something a little more worthwhile and beaten feet outta there
It is easy to be "duped" when you are young. You want to believe. Now that I am old(er), I still want to believe, but can't. I am doubting Thomasina. I loved what I thought it was, too.
Now all I have is what is. God's only real presence is manifest in his people. (Oh, wasn't that one of those repeated sayings?) Truth is Truth.
I couldn't stand TWI from day one. My other half was sold out 100% so I went along for the ride and it was a rough one. I will admit that I made some lasting friends there but I also lost many old friends I had.
I DID NOT BELIEVE. I was tortured every time I went to TWIG. Finally my other half saw the light and we left.
I just could never understand how everyone was so sold out to TWI, still baffles me today. In 1975 - oufficially out in 1986.
I was an idealistic young college girl when I got in TWI. I came from a loving family and saw much of that same type of love in the early twigs I was part of. I thought TWI was going to make the world a better place.
Later, hubby and I ran our own twig, and it never occured to us to be hard a$$es for Christ ...plus we were in a rural area and pretty much on our own. But in the nineties, we moved ( due to counsel from Limb co ord)into the limb city to get out of debt( sin and consequence!!) and be on semi limb staff 'where the word is hot'(we cleaned and did yard work, sheesh.) That was a whole different world, very ugly and painful.
Kindness, concern for others, generosity of heart, a helping hand, celebration, fun times...those were things hubby and I learned in our families and thought were TWI attributes.
Its Sad. Sounds like many people became "Slaves to TWI", so the Glorious Leaders could line their pocket book.
What did I hear in the first PFAL Class I took in 1976?
VPW was saying something about "God told me to tell you, to sell ALL your property, and give ME the money". I thought at the time he was talking about OTHER GROUPS doing that to their followers., it sickens me to learn -- they were really into that way of thinking. Geesh - using their power to 'control, and gain profit'. Seems their dictatoring caused a great many Believers to be tricked out of their Properties (properties that years later would have gained them wealth).
What happened to the teachings that as Believers we are entitled to "The More than Abundant Life"?
Being in debt for a home was a 'good thing', and in doing so we 'render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's" and to God the things that are God's. Good thing I learned "Charity begins at Home", before I ever gave it ALL to TWI.
Sorry to hear so many people were led BLINDLY and did not take a STAND against such Legalism.
I am glad I got out when I did, even though I was FORCED out, and all my TWI literature, PFAL books, and all were DESTROYED....
TWI was not structured so people had a voice of protest, or disagreement--that was against the 'likeminded'doctrine.
As far as I know, people who 'took a a stand' did it with their feet running out the door, and were demonized, slandered, warned about and marked and avoided by their 'godly' friends. Lovely experience, btw.
People DID take a stand jet...and were promptly thrown out for their pains.....so...why didn`t folks hear about it?
Oh you did.....but all you heard was that we were possessed or not meek or had gotten tricked by the adversary....don`t talk to us because you might get posessed too....
It is a mistake for you to assume that people didn`t stand up for themselves and others....
rascal, Sorry but I think you might misunderstand me a tiny bit. I LEFT years before all this stuff happened. I hadn't heard of any of the skism until I heard John Lynn speak one weekend in Seattle WA area. He was with CES, and I was puzzled. A co-worker invited me, and I was surprised to find Rev. John Lynn speaking in a non-TWI event. He filled me in on as much as he could then later send me the Greer letter thing and GreaseSpots has clued me on more.
In reference to 'taking a stand', please I was not referring to those who TWI disbarred or shunned. OF COURSE you took a stand, that's what got you OUT. I am really talking about the LEADERS in POWERFUL Positions taking a STAND against the WRONG done to OTHERS. Instead, just like you explained, those Powers that Be, turned against the very people they should of been PROTECTING. They should of protected them against LCM and others who used their POWER to deceive.
The true evil-doers should have been 'kicked out' not those who took a stand!
Please forgive me if my note was not clear on who I hold accountable!! If you suffered because you took a stand -- then I only admire that you took a STAND. It truly troubles me that TWI chose to support those who were WRONG. But, 'what goes around, comes around'. Look at how many people LEFT? TWI is but a shell of a so-called-ministry now. They are in a heap of trouble, and do not have the Financial backing they once had.
No matter how we left, its a good thing we are no longer being controlled by TWI? How can we support a ministry that has done so much damage. What did it profit them in the long term?
I read a great deal of 'bitterness' - I did not experience the same things others have, therefore I do not have any 'first-hand' bitterness or hatred for TWI when I was in association with them. I was out before 1981. My heart goes out to you and what you endured, and I pray God heals your heart.
There ARE so many wonderful people who have left, and I'm sure some still foolish enough to remain in TWI. IF anyone from TWI had told me to 'ignore, or cast aside a brother or sister Believer', I would have NOT OBEYED them. I am not one to 'FOLLOW ORDERS' easily, and I would have had little respect for someone who told Me to do something that went against my better judgement. I am the type of person, tho who was bold enough to have taken a Stand with ya! Than against ya!
The 'good that was there' were the Millions of people whose HEARTS and MINDS were in the right place and they honestly and without greed or malice actually LIVED GOD'S LOVE.
IF we could gather together all of the Believers who made TWI what is once WAS, we'd have a sweet, sweet, fellowship?
I for one miss the beautiful, 'Christ in You' people. I miss how we all use to bring out the best in one another. Minister to those who were hurting. I miss the healing power of the Word. I miss the fellowship with genuine godly people.
Not having gone in the Corp, I didn't have to endure things that others did.
I hope we don't have to wait for the 'gathering together' to experience the Household at its best., we could use that kind of daily influence now.
Light dispells darkness - right?
Your right jet, light dispels darkness...
...And there were some really fine, loving folks who were involved.
...but all those things that you miss are not gone. The bible teaches that the true body of Christ is a spiritual body...with Christ as it's head. Someone told me once that they would rather know Christ without an organization than to be part of an organization where Christ was absent....The household of God is all around you...they're just not wearing name tags. After the regimented perspective of twi, it takes a little time to realize that. Not that there's anything wrong per se, with a Christian organization...in fact, there's plenty of good churches out there and other groups that are Christian oriented. I encourage people, who have recently left twi, to go out and "spread your wings"...and that means something different to each person. For some, the experience of living a Christian life "without a net" is an exhilerating experience. It's sorta like taking the training wheels off of your bicycle...A spiritual life that is not filtered through a religious hierarchy. For me, I've discovered that many of the "Christ in you people" that I know are not found sitting in church pews...I've learned that getting involved in people's lives and in different situations is a wonderful way for me to express my Christian faith...
...When I was in twi, everything was cut and dried. The household were people who had met certain orgainzational requirements, fellowship was a structured meeting at certain times, if I wanted to know the spiritual "staus" of someone or something...twi would provide a list for me. In hindsight, I wonder how much "spiritual perception" I really had while in twi...It's much more challenging, fulfilling, and REAL to trust in the Lord and not other men.
"IF we could gather together all of the Believers who made TWI what is once WAS, we'd have a sweet, sweet, fellowship? "
I don't know. Being older, wiser, and more cynical I think that part of what made such a "sweet sweet fellowship" was people pouring on the sugar even when they disliked each other. We were expected to love each other and be "best friends" with everyone, even those we didn't really care for. Yes, I made some great friends. I also spent a lot of time with people I had little in common with and probably would never be friends with if not for the fact that I had to see them at 3 fellowships a week. Then there were those who were just plain nuts.
I see the same mix here at greasespot, only now I don't have to pretend to be nice. Now I can tell people to go to $$$$. I can ignore people I really dislike or those I think are just loony tunes.
See the thing is, in a sense we are all gathered together in "fellowship" (whatever the heck that means), only it isn't always sweet and I think that is a damned good thing. Far better than the saccarine of TWI.
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dmiller
I read part of her story, but not the entire thing. Headed there now. :)
David
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Allan
Surely any 'godly' person would want at least some of the good that was in there !
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GrouchoMarxJr
Yes...Of course. We were led to believe that twi was a noble and godly institution. It was a "magic" time in our lives...when we thought that we found something that was from God and provided real answers for our lives...
...Unfortunately, this concept of "I loved what I thought it was", was the very thing that allowed grifter Vic and king okie to "rule over us" and take advantage of our pure hearts. Had we believed that we were involved with a secular organization, we never would have fallen for the con.
That's why I take exception to those who lie in God's name.
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Belle
I love reading the "my story" accounts people post! O&A's post was especially nice to read. :)
I think because of when I got in (1993), or because of my mindset....maybe a combination of both: But, TWI was never "my ministry". It was a source for more Biblical answers than I had ever gotten before. I think part of that was because I was in a place in my life where I truly WANTED answers, not that TWI was the only place with the answers.
Maybe I was selfish, but I considered TWI another church - one with volumes of information - but a church nonetheless. I felt like the Baptist Church I grew up in was "my" church, but never felt that way about TWI. TWI was more of a disciplinarian or substitute parent than a warm, fuzzy, cozy place to be.
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rascal
sure they would....whatta pity that the *good that was there* was mearly an illusion for the evil to hide behind....and manipulate with......
Too damned bad twi wsn`t what we thought it was....because as many *Godly* people that selflessly donated millions of hours of selfless service and millions of dollars in money.....we could have accomplished quite a positive impact in the world.
Groucho is right...we were lied to, and stolen from in GOD`S name......absolutely despicable imo.
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Oakspear
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jetc57
The 'good that was there' were the Millions of people whose HEARTS and MINDS were in the right place and they honestly and without greed or malice actually LIVED GOD'S LOVE.
IF we could gather together all of the Believers who made TWI what is once WAS, we'd have a sweet, sweet, fellowship?
I for one miss the beautiful, 'Christ in You' people. I miss how we all use to bring out the best in one another. Minister to those who were hurting. I miss the healing power of the Word. I miss the fellowship with genuine godly people.
Not having gone in the Corp, I didn't have to endure things that others did.
I hope we don't have to wait for the 'gathering together' to experience the Household at its best., we could use that kind of daily influence now.
Light dispells darkness - right?
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mstar1
Of course they touted the 'its your ministry' line.....If its to be its up to me, all that hype.....I gave every last spare dime , ounce of strength, and second of my time to them because I was under the illusion that it actually was 'mine'. It seemed good at the time--and I sold out to it and loved it-- but when the rubber hit the road it was all BS, it was all a lie.
So, no-although I met some wonderful people in TWI-I dont hold onto that feeling anymore, long for the old days, buy into BS , wish to be decieved or manipulated for the aggrandizement of a few, or want to live in an illusion anymore.
"Your Ministry" is now patrolled by security to keep you out.
Any 'godly person' or 'person who wanted to see God work in theri lives' ,who had the least bit of maturity that some of us may have lacked at the time would have seen it for the crock and scam that it was, stopped perpetuating the darkness and given their lives to something a little more worthwhile and beaten feet outta there
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Rhea Pantelides
It is easy to be "duped" when you are young. You want to believe. Now that I am old(er), I still want to believe, but can't. I am doubting Thomasina. I loved what I thought it was, too.
Now all I have is what is. God's only real presence is manifest in his people. (Oh, wasn't that one of those repeated sayings?) Truth is Truth.
r
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BettyBoop
I couldn't stand TWI from day one. My other half was sold out 100% so I went along for the ride and it was a rough one. I will admit that I made some lasting friends there but I also lost many old friends I had.
I DID NOT BELIEVE. I was tortured every time I went to TWIG. Finally my other half saw the light and we left.
I just could never understand how everyone was so sold out to TWI, still baffles me today. In 1975 - oufficially out in 1986.
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Bramble
I was an idealistic young college girl when I got in TWI. I came from a loving family and saw much of that same type of love in the early twigs I was part of. I thought TWI was going to make the world a better place.
Later, hubby and I ran our own twig, and it never occured to us to be hard a$$es for Christ ...plus we were in a rural area and pretty much on our own. But in the nineties, we moved ( due to counsel from Limb co ord)into the limb city to get out of debt( sin and consequence!!) and be on semi limb staff 'where the word is hot'(we cleaned and did yard work, sheesh.) That was a whole different world, very ugly and painful.
Kindness, concern for others, generosity of heart, a helping hand, celebration, fun times...those were things hubby and I learned in our families and thought were TWI attributes.
We certainly learned differently.
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jetc57
Its Sad. Sounds like many people became "Slaves to TWI", so the Glorious Leaders could line their pocket book.
What did I hear in the first PFAL Class I took in 1976?
VPW was saying something about "God told me to tell you, to sell ALL your property, and give ME the money". I thought at the time he was talking about OTHER GROUPS doing that to their followers., it sickens me to learn -- they were really into that way of thinking. Geesh - using their power to 'control, and gain profit'. Seems their dictatoring caused a great many Believers to be tricked out of their Properties (properties that years later would have gained them wealth).
What happened to the teachings that as Believers we are entitled to "The More than Abundant Life"?
Being in debt for a home was a 'good thing', and in doing so we 'render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's" and to God the things that are God's. Good thing I learned "Charity begins at Home", before I ever gave it ALL to TWI.
Sorry to hear so many people were led BLINDLY and did not take a STAND against such Legalism.
I am glad I got out when I did, even though I was FORCED out, and all my TWI literature, PFAL books, and all were DESTROYED....
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Bramble
TWI was not structured so people had a voice of protest, or disagreement--that was against the 'likeminded'doctrine.
As far as I know, people who 'took a a stand' did it with their feet running out the door, and were demonized, slandered, warned about and marked and avoided by their 'godly' friends. Lovely experience, btw.
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rascal
People DID take a stand jet...and were promptly thrown out for their pains.....so...why didn`t folks hear about it?
Oh you did.....but all you heard was that we were possessed or not meek or had gotten tricked by the adversary....don`t talk to us because you might get posessed too....
It is a mistake for you to assume that people didn`t stand up for themselves and others....
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jetc57
rascal, Sorry but I think you might misunderstand me a tiny bit. I LEFT years before all this stuff happened. I hadn't heard of any of the skism until I heard John Lynn speak one weekend in Seattle WA area. He was with CES, and I was puzzled. A co-worker invited me, and I was surprised to find Rev. John Lynn speaking in a non-TWI event. He filled me in on as much as he could then later send me the Greer letter thing and GreaseSpots has clued me on more.
In reference to 'taking a stand', please I was not referring to those who TWI disbarred or shunned. OF COURSE you took a stand, that's what got you OUT. I am really talking about the LEADERS in POWERFUL Positions taking a STAND against the WRONG done to OTHERS. Instead, just like you explained, those Powers that Be, turned against the very people they should of been PROTECTING. They should of protected them against LCM and others who used their POWER to deceive.
The true evil-doers should have been 'kicked out' not those who took a stand!
Please forgive me if my note was not clear on who I hold accountable!! If you suffered because you took a stand -- then I only admire that you took a STAND. It truly troubles me that TWI chose to support those who were WRONG. But, 'what goes around, comes around'. Look at how many people LEFT? TWI is but a shell of a so-called-ministry now. They are in a heap of trouble, and do not have the Financial backing they once had.
No matter how we left, its a good thing we are no longer being controlled by TWI? How can we support a ministry that has done so much damage. What did it profit them in the long term?
I read a great deal of 'bitterness' - I did not experience the same things others have, therefore I do not have any 'first-hand' bitterness or hatred for TWI when I was in association with them. I was out before 1981. My heart goes out to you and what you endured, and I pray God heals your heart.
There ARE so many wonderful people who have left, and I'm sure some still foolish enough to remain in TWI. IF anyone from TWI had told me to 'ignore, or cast aside a brother or sister Believer', I would have NOT OBEYED them. I am not one to 'FOLLOW ORDERS' easily, and I would have had little respect for someone who told Me to do something that went against my better judgement. I am the type of person, tho who was bold enough to have taken a Stand with ya! Than against ya!
God Bless You.
Love Jeannette
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GrouchoMarxJr
Your right jet, light dispels darkness...
...And there were some really fine, loving folks who were involved.
...but all those things that you miss are not gone. The bible teaches that the true body of Christ is a spiritual body...with Christ as it's head. Someone told me once that they would rather know Christ without an organization than to be part of an organization where Christ was absent....The household of God is all around you...they're just not wearing name tags. After the regimented perspective of twi, it takes a little time to realize that. Not that there's anything wrong per se, with a Christian organization...in fact, there's plenty of good churches out there and other groups that are Christian oriented. I encourage people, who have recently left twi, to go out and "spread your wings"...and that means something different to each person. For some, the experience of living a Christian life "without a net" is an exhilerating experience. It's sorta like taking the training wheels off of your bicycle...A spiritual life that is not filtered through a religious hierarchy. For me, I've discovered that many of the "Christ in you people" that I know are not found sitting in church pews...I've learned that getting involved in people's lives and in different situations is a wonderful way for me to express my Christian faith...
...When I was in twi, everything was cut and dried. The household were people who had met certain orgainzational requirements, fellowship was a structured meeting at certain times, if I wanted to know the spiritual "staus" of someone or something...twi would provide a list for me. In hindsight, I wonder how much "spiritual perception" I really had while in twi...It's much more challenging, fulfilling, and REAL to trust in the Lord and not other men.
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Belle
To the top
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excathedra
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Morgan
"IF we could gather together all of the Believers who made TWI what is once WAS, we'd have a sweet, sweet, fellowship? "
I don't know. Being older, wiser, and more cynical I think that part of what made such a "sweet sweet fellowship" was people pouring on the sugar even when they disliked each other. We were expected to love each other and be "best friends" with everyone, even those we didn't really care for. Yes, I made some great friends. I also spent a lot of time with people I had little in common with and probably would never be friends with if not for the fact that I had to see them at 3 fellowships a week. Then there were those who were just plain nuts.
I see the same mix here at greasespot, only now I don't have to pretend to be nice. Now I can tell people to go to $$$$. I can ignore people I really dislike or those I think are just loony tunes.
See the thing is, in a sense we are all gathered together in "fellowship" (whatever the heck that means), only it isn't always sweet and I think that is a damned good thing. Far better than the saccarine of TWI.
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