What most, if not ALL, of this young group of naive, uninformed, and ignorant way youth, is failing to understand, is that they would not have TWI if was not for the ton of people who post on this site and posted on Waydale. The YEARS invested. The MONEY spent. The BLOOD spilled. The wars fought for classes, and for people's lives. You cannot turn a deaf ear to that many witnesses. You cannot ignore that many skeletons in a closet. What little rag tag outfit you may have today only exists due to thousands of people who no longer "fellowship" with TWI. Now they leech of that blood, sweat, tears, and MONEY, and just barely manage to sqweek by today. These young folks think no one has ever tried to change The Way? Been there, done that!!! We all have tried it, in our own way. Not to mention the doctrinal error/plagerism that begins at the very basics of Way dogma. How are you gonna make the practical more "exciting, revelant, hip, etc.", when The Way does not even have a leg to stand on docrinally? How are you gonna make the teaching of Eve was a lesbian with the Devil hip and acceptable? How are you gonna make in the days of Peleg cool and revalent?? by shanking your head, and talking about all the crap in the past, drinking some beers,listening to the latest bands and wiping all that $*@! up under the rug? If you think God is blessing ANY aspect of that organization, i feel sorry for your lack of understanding of what being blessed is. Life can be ALOT better than what it is right now, my friends.
why do i care? family and friends STILL in. and it gets frustrating. I wont be like my turncoat wayfer "friends", who turned their backs when i needed them most. but i will bring information and knowledge to the table, because i wont submit to their "ask no questions policies". I will come on here and post when i want and say what i want. its nice to be free, if you only knew what THAT was. you wanna ride mr. toads wild ride of TWI?? be warned MF's, be fricken warned.....
I'd like to offer a link to a site that I've been reading up on, that sort of relates to the general topic. It's
Church Marketing Sucks One of the best links is "Marketing is Secondary". Your post reminded me of this, Raven.
To me, it's an extremely funny site. They make some good points. Its' not quite obvious what they're doing, it takes a little poking around I found. But it's a funny site. I'm pondering a communication to them.
It caught my eye as years ago I realized a great truth in life :blink: (ahem)
"Life is cool - when it doesn't suck". And the reverse welled up in my soul immediately upon pondering that voice in the wind: "Life sucks when it isn't cool".
(I share this only in the hope that it may bring some light to the souls of our youth as they step forward into the light of a new day and consider what to do with all that energy. No renumeration of any kind is necessary if it does you good, only your heartfelt and lifelong recognition of me, forever. Just don't try to fix me. That would be disrespectful.)
In my 24 years with twi, I can't recall ANY peer youth "making a difference in twi." Sure, I heard the stuff about the guitar-playing Donnie Fxgit and how his boldness impacted back-to-back pfal classes in Kansas.......BUT at the same time, I don't recall him EFFECTING CHANGE from within.
The lcm-seduced crowd.....ruppy, hornxy, spaghetti, mcfading, and others are NOT going to allow any snot-nosed kid to change the course of twi. After all, these men have invested decades into this outfit and, NOW, they have "positions of authority." By God, they deserve to sit there. They deserve to be heard. And, they are going to take their "rightful place" even if everyone abandons the ship.
There's just something about ARROGANCE that blinds the mind to initiate change.
There's just something about PRIDE that blinds following the commandments of God.
There's just something about INTOXICATING SELF-IMPORTANCE that overrides all else.
It's not about change...........it's about THEM and the ADULATION THEY SO CRAVE.
I have to make a distinction with the HQ CFF as I don't think they inspire people to do that, but there are still people out there that act like they are still in TWI without being in it and believe they are doing the right thing cutting off fellowship to Christians that do not agree with them.
I don't believe in much of what VPW taught at all these days, with the exception of a few things, but I did not want to lose my old friends from the Way. Since coming out and telling people what I believed, we were not marked and avoided per se, just never again invited to social functions like Christmas parties (Ho-Ho, whatever), and never invited to local functions in my city. We were just ignored.
There was one that kept inviting me to his fellowship and kept emailing me, but that was the exception. I'd email back.
I know John Shroyer personally and I doubt he advocates Christians splitting from other Christians socially or otherwise based on differences. He most likely would say go to separate churches or fellowships and hang out afterward. No one is going to agree perfectly with the Word of God.
Hoep this helps. CFF is okay. But a lot of off-shoots still have people with TWI hangovers. I doubt the off-shoots like that very much.
Gee......when I think about the early 70s and the buzz of excitement to hang with other youthful believers and see the power of God in operation, it sure is a FAR STRETCH from the twi organization of today.
Back then, we were spontanious, fun-loving, easy-going, non-legalistic, and expecting God to work miracles in daily life. We didn't have corps grads mandating policy, or brow-beating our efforts. It was just growth from within without compulsion. Christ-in-us RULED!
The religious legalism that engulfs twi today will NOT allow true believers to be headed by Christ. Twi policies on comformity, on modified-accepted behavior, on finances and mortgages, etc.....OVERRIDE the free-wheeling spirit of individualism to walk the church epistle walk!!!
Thousands of us youth brought our enthusiasm, and energy, and resources, and friends to learn and grow with us in God's grace. With grace far-removed from twi's borders, why would the youth want to stay in the confines of something contrary to God's Word?
If there are some twi youth who think they can "change twi from within"......it begs the question, change it in to what???
I have a few things to say about the TWI's youth leaving...more power to them! Unfortunatey, TWI won't have as many new students to run classes for if the youths are leaving.
When my son was 18 years old, he was told he couldn't attend a college (that had awarded him a full-ride) that wasn't near a local fellowship, that's what put the icing on the cake for him. He decided to walk and was classified by the Limb Leader as "no better than a pile of dog &$*#" for leaving. My son should have slapped me upside the head for staying, but being blinded to the legalistic views and 'policy' of TWI, I stayed just until a couple of years ago.
I've seen other fellowships out there that are geared toward the youth of our day, but for some reason those legalistic policies still get in the way of freedom for the youth. If parents don't teach their kids at an early age to think for themselves, nobody will. I've seen more young adults in the "world" able to make more logical decisions than those that were "raised in the Word". PLEASE don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that all kids raised in the Word can't think logically, I'm only talking about the few I've seen, that's all.
So in the eyes of my son I'm now a hypocrit for staying so long, it's a mess but that's another story. I totally agree with the youth leaving and again, more power to them!
Hi, I am in Mexico. I am also a PFAL Grad and The Way Class. For live out or in the household you have to believe. The kids have to believe for have a live, and apply the principals of the word to survive until the return.
For us in the International Outreach is dificult in other forms, because the limbs are smaller. But God always help us even if we are not in The Ministery. I been out for three years and stil use the way class principals. Is like part of me living in order. I still believe tha the Word of God is the will of God. What I miss are my fellow brothers in Christ. And pray tha some day all we that are spread can live the mistery. There is just one body.
You're right - we are ALL ONE BODY - regardless of where and with whom we worship. Pity TWI doesn't teach that or see it that way. They sure are missing out on some wonderful people. Hopefully the children will realize this and learn that they can live outside the walls of TWI and that TWI and it's logic isn't the end all and be all of life.
Since it's afternoon already, may I interest you in a little snack? I'm sure Raf will be along with some coffee as well....
Buenas tardes/noches, mex. Bienvenidos a la Greasespot Cafe. Perdon mi espanol. Belle will proably offer a danish(dulce) and Raf will be along with the coffee. I am the resident Lutheran and former PFAL grad. I am an organist/Director in my church. Others are Roman Catholic, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, TWI splinter groups, Wiccan, agnostic, etc. Check out the various threads and click on to my poll and discussion forum on hymnody.
Belle, Thomas greetings. What I see all this years is that most of us still agreed with The Way doctrine, but no with the actions the lidership takes. We missed our brother is Christ and the fellowship of other times. The Rock. But some day this is going to end. Tath fore sure.
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penguin
Eagle,
I hope you don't mind me asking, but which offshoot? You can PM if you don't want to post, but it would be beneficial to me to know.
Thanks
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Raven's Claw
Another point.
What most, if not ALL, of this young group of naive, uninformed, and ignorant way youth, is failing to understand, is that they would not have TWI if was not for the ton of people who post on this site and posted on Waydale. The YEARS invested. The MONEY spent. The BLOOD spilled. The wars fought for classes, and for people's lives. You cannot turn a deaf ear to that many witnesses. You cannot ignore that many skeletons in a closet. What little rag tag outfit you may have today only exists due to thousands of people who no longer "fellowship" with TWI. Now they leech of that blood, sweat, tears, and MONEY, and just barely manage to sqweek by today. These young folks think no one has ever tried to change The Way? Been there, done that!!! We all have tried it, in our own way. Not to mention the doctrinal error/plagerism that begins at the very basics of Way dogma. How are you gonna make the practical more "exciting, revelant, hip, etc.", when The Way does not even have a leg to stand on docrinally? How are you gonna make the teaching of Eve was a lesbian with the Devil hip and acceptable? How are you gonna make in the days of Peleg cool and revalent?? by shanking your head, and talking about all the crap in the past, drinking some beers,listening to the latest bands and wiping all that $*@! up under the rug? If you think God is blessing ANY aspect of that organization, i feel sorry for your lack of understanding of what being blessed is. Life can be ALOT better than what it is right now, my friends.
why do i care? family and friends STILL in. and it gets frustrating. I wont be like my turncoat wayfer "friends", who turned their backs when i needed them most. but i will bring information and knowledge to the table, because i wont submit to their "ask no questions policies". I will come on here and post when i want and say what i want. its nice to be free, if you only knew what THAT was. you wanna ride mr. toads wild ride of TWI?? be warned MF's, be fricken warned.....
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socks
I'd like to offer a link to a site that I've been reading up on, that sort of relates to the general topic. It's
Church Marketing Sucks One of the best links is "Marketing is Secondary". Your post reminded me of this, Raven.
To me, it's an extremely funny site. They make some good points. Its' not quite obvious what they're doing, it takes a little poking around I found. But it's a funny site. I'm pondering a communication to them.
It caught my eye as years ago I realized a great truth in life :blink: (ahem)
"Life is cool - when it doesn't suck". And the reverse welled up in my soul immediately upon pondering that voice in the wind: "Life sucks when it isn't cool".
(I share this only in the hope that it may bring some light to the souls of our youth as they step forward into the light of a new day and consider what to do with all that energy. No renumeration of any kind is necessary if it does you good, only your heartfelt and lifelong recognition of me, forever. Just don't try to fix me. That would be disrespectful.)
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skyrider
In my 24 years with twi, I can't recall ANY peer youth "making a difference in twi." Sure, I heard the stuff about the guitar-playing Donnie Fxgit and how his boldness impacted back-to-back pfal classes in Kansas.......BUT at the same time, I don't recall him EFFECTING CHANGE from within.
The lcm-seduced crowd.....ruppy, hornxy, spaghetti, mcfading, and others are NOT going to allow any snot-nosed kid to change the course of twi. After all, these men have invested decades into this outfit and, NOW, they have "positions of authority." By God, they deserve to sit there. They deserve to be heard. And, they are going to take their "rightful place" even if everyone abandons the ship.
There's just something about ARROGANCE that blinds the mind to initiate change.
There's just something about PRIDE that blinds following the commandments of God.
There's just something about INTOXICATING SELF-IMPORTANCE that overrides all else.
It's not about change...........it's about THEM and the ADULATION THEY SO CRAVE.
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bliss
" I for one, hope that youth will again revolt and again demoralize the dead weight of conformity that now lies upon us." Howard Mumford Jones
"Older men declare war. But it is the youth that must fight and die." Herbert Hoover
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Eagle
No, I don't mind. It was the local CFF.
I have to make a distinction with the HQ CFF as I don't think they inspire people to do that, but there are still people out there that act like they are still in TWI without being in it and believe they are doing the right thing cutting off fellowship to Christians that do not agree with them.
I don't believe in much of what VPW taught at all these days, with the exception of a few things, but I did not want to lose my old friends from the Way. Since coming out and telling people what I believed, we were not marked and avoided per se, just never again invited to social functions like Christmas parties (Ho-Ho, whatever), and never invited to local functions in my city. We were just ignored.
There was one that kept inviting me to his fellowship and kept emailing me, but that was the exception. I'd email back.
I know John Shroyer personally and I doubt he advocates Christians splitting from other Christians socially or otherwise based on differences. He most likely would say go to separate churches or fellowships and hang out afterward. No one is going to agree perfectly with the Word of God.
Hoep this helps. CFF is okay. But a lot of off-shoots still have people with TWI hangovers. I doubt the off-shoots like that very much.
Eagle
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Raven's Claw
"It's not about change...........it's about THEM and the ADULATION THEY SO CRAVE".
bingo.
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skyrider
Gee......when I think about the early 70s and the buzz of excitement to hang with other youthful believers and see the power of God in operation, it sure is a FAR STRETCH from the twi organization of today.
Back then, we were spontanious, fun-loving, easy-going, non-legalistic, and expecting God to work miracles in daily life. We didn't have corps grads mandating policy, or brow-beating our efforts. It was just growth from within without compulsion. Christ-in-us RULED!
The religious legalism that engulfs twi today will NOT allow true believers to be headed by Christ. Twi policies on comformity, on modified-accepted behavior, on finances and mortgages, etc.....OVERRIDE the free-wheeling spirit of individualism to walk the church epistle walk!!!
Thousands of us youth brought our enthusiasm, and energy, and resources, and friends to learn and grow with us in God's grace. With grace far-removed from twi's borders, why would the youth want to stay in the confines of something contrary to God's Word?
If there are some twi youth who think they can "change twi from within"......it begs the question, change it in to what???
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rvrdiver
I have a few things to say about the TWI's youth leaving...more power to them! Unfortunatey, TWI won't have as many new students to run classes for if the youths are leaving.
When my son was 18 years old, he was told he couldn't attend a college (that had awarded him a full-ride) that wasn't near a local fellowship, that's what put the icing on the cake for him. He decided to walk and was classified by the Limb Leader as "no better than a pile of dog &$*#" for leaving. My son should have slapped me upside the head for staying, but being blinded to the legalistic views and 'policy' of TWI, I stayed just until a couple of years ago.
I've seen other fellowships out there that are geared toward the youth of our day, but for some reason those legalistic policies still get in the way of freedom for the youth. If parents don't teach their kids at an early age to think for themselves, nobody will. I've seen more young adults in the "world" able to make more logical decisions than those that were "raised in the Word". PLEASE don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that all kids raised in the Word can't think logically, I'm only talking about the few I've seen, that's all.
So in the eyes of my son I'm now a hypocrit for staying so long, it's a mess but that's another story. I totally agree with the youth leaving and again, more power to them!
KJ
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themex
Hi, I am in Mexico. I am also a PFAL Grad and The Way Class. For live out or in the household you have to believe. The kids have to believe for have a live, and apply the principals of the word to survive until the return.
For us in the International Outreach is dificult in other forms, because the limbs are smaller. But God always help us even if we are not in The Ministery. I been out for three years and stil use the way class principals. Is like part of me living in order. I still believe tha the Word of God is the will of God. What I miss are my fellow brothers in Christ. And pray tha some day all we that are spread can live the mistery. There is just one body.
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Belle
WELCOME, THEMEX!!!!
Great first post!
You're right - we are ALL ONE BODY - regardless of where and with whom we worship. Pity TWI doesn't teach that or see it that way. They sure are missing out on some wonderful people. Hopefully the children will realize this and learn that they can live outside the walls of TWI and that TWI and it's logic isn't the end all and be all of life.
Since it's afternoon already, may I interest you in a little snack? I'm sure Raf will be along with some coffee as well....
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Buenas tardes/noches, mex. Bienvenidos a la Greasespot Cafe. Perdon mi espanol. Belle will proably offer a danish(dulce) and Raf will be along with the coffee. I am the resident Lutheran and former PFAL grad. I am an organist/Director in my church. Others are Roman Catholic, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, TWI splinter groups, Wiccan, agnostic, etc. Check out the various threads and click on to my poll and discussion forum on hymnody.
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themex
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