I work so hard to do, learn, practise the Word that I do not kown were is the line between me and The Way/Word. I know what The Word saids about so many topics, that I just do that. I am married with an unbelievier as a matter of fact with a spiritis girl, but I practice so many thing of the Word in my marriage. I try to avoid direct confrontation a lot, but I confront the problemas. I try to live light.
Welcome true soul..... rediscovery of *true self* has been an exciting journey ....
You can look at it as an exhillerating adventure....starting over from scratch....you are not required to supress your thoughts or emotions....who you are ever again.
Find what you enjoy...bowling.... skydiving...motorcycle clubs....lol
It has been an exciting adventure to reaquaint myself with my estranged family....Becoming an active and apreciated member in my community has been rewarding.
I enjoy meeting new people of varying back grounds and interests because I feel they help bring balance to my perspective.
Mostly I enjoy the things that were denied me in twi....
*serious* pets ...I am free to pick up and take care of as many strays as I can afford to feed...lol be they equine feline canine human...lol
I enjoy studying karate with my kiddoes and even competing..... I enjoy raising and training my equine babies....
I think it's an interesting discussion for folks, deciding what their true self should be.
Reminds me of a couple of John Lynn's books, "Will the Real You Please Stand Up" and,
"Will The Real You Please Remain Standing"...
We learned in twi that the "real you" is the Christ in you.
Not the "old man" and his ways.
And, everything to get your mind in alignment and harmony with "the real you", the Christ in you, the new man, is a godly endeavor.
So I think it all goes back to the essential question...what a person decides for themself, is really them.
This might be the case, OM, were it not for the barrage of covert packaged persuasion fired at us by unethical TWI when we were in a state of transient vulnerability. For those TWI believers victimized by the non-consented production in themselves of TWI’s synthetic cultic pseuo-self & pseudo-identity, they first need to return to their pre-TWI, true historical self, which may well require professional psychological assistance. Only then can the person genuinely pursue understanding their true historical self. By the way, the ‘real you’ can only be genuinely determined by an individual in an environment totally free of covertly imposed mental manipulation, thought reform, packaged persuasion.
Jkboehme, can you please use larger print, I can't see.
From 1975 to 1991, some 16 years, I went to twig approximately once a week, with other sporadic twi events other times.
But that's approx. 2 hours out of 168 hours per week, to get a dose of your so-called covert packaged persuasion, that according to you, was supposed to brainwash my neuro transmitters.
I don't know what you define as covert packaged persuasion, but I think you "have some explaining to do".
I thought the twigs I attended were excellent and godly. Others folks of different beliefs and religions might disagree, but those were my beliefs, and we are still free in this country to worship God how we choose.
I believed what God wanted me to learn from the bible, and nothing covert about it.
The twig coordinators were excellent too...
The bible speaks of thought reform, a large part of your attempted condemnation is what a Christian is asked to do with their own mind, to become more Christ-like. Here's just one verse:
Col 3:10 And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Your opinion that any thought reform we experienced in twi was "non-consented" by folks is another opinion of yours that is unproven, and begs much explanation.
And, you still haven't answered my other questions.
16 years of going to twig once a week? I don't know where you come from, but in my neck of the way woods that's almost inconceivable. For most, (or almost all) so called 'committed believers', life was a calendar jammed with twig meetings, leaders meetings, classes, witnessing nights, various and sundry responsibilities , and any other 'necessary' off the cuff meeting or reproof session that might arise.
If you maintained a distance from all that, it explains alot of why you're unable to comprehend the depth of abuse and control that they inflicted on a daily basis.
"From 1975 to 1991, some 16 years, I went to twig approximately once a week, with other sporadic twi events other times.
But that's approx. 2 hours out of 168 hours per week, to get a dose of your so-called covert packaged persuasion, that according to you, was supposed to brainwash my neuro transmitters."
That may have been YOUR experience and perspective - but it is NOT the experience or perspective of many others. Perhaps a thread about "returning to your true self" is not for you, as you feel you have never left behind/burried your true self. Others feel they did and it is most likely their persective this thread is searching for.
What you have attempted to do is disallow anyone else's perspective by posting as if such things never occured, simply because you feel it did not happen to you. That just stinks.
"The twig coordinators were excellent too..."
Glad you had excellent twig coordinators. Some of did not, despite your wonderful experience. Hard for you to believe, I realize.
"Your opinion that any thought reform we experienced in twi was "non-consented" by folks is another opinion of yours that is unproven, and begs much explanation."
Consented to or not, many of us feel it took place, often without our being aware of it. It is difficult to consent to something you are not aware is occuring.
The person I was pre-TWI and the person I became while IN TWI are two very different people. Some of the person I became while in TWI, I respect and love - those traits I have retained. The rest I have tossed. Some of the person I was pre-TWI I despise and I have continued to reject those traits.
One of the great things about leaving TWI and "starting over" so to speak, is that you can take some time and figure out who you want to be. What do you value, what do you find distasteful? What do you enjoy doing?
Take some time, think those things through. Perhaps even do some research on various issues that might come to mind regarding politics, religion, ethics, etc. and then decide.
You will find that some things are just core to who you are. You may have burried them during TWI, but they will resurface again in time. Other things are maleable and you can pick and choose among them, make an educated decision about them.
Do you value fine clothes and dining? Or perhaps you value a quiet evening at home with a couple cherished friends, dressed in blue jeans or sweats? Those things may sound superficial, but you will find they really aren't.
You can experiment too. Try new things that you've never tried before and see what you think of them. Have fun with finding yourself and recreating yourself. And give yourself lots of room and time.
"Your opinion that any thought reform we experienced in twi was "non-consented" by folks is another opinion of yours that is unproven, and begs much explanation."
BTW, Oldies, no one owes you an explanation for their opinions, thoughts, or experiences. Nor, do we have to "prove" them to you.
Anyone who has read more than a handful or so of your posts is aware that your experience in TWI was different from the experience many other posters had (hell we all had unique experiences, no?). Likewise, we realize that no amount of explaining is going to help you understand some of these things that you plainly do not get.
However, many of us get it without explanation, because we felt/expienced similar things. We do not need to explain to each other these subjects. Nor do we have to spend countless hours trying to help you see that which you apparently cannot.
For those TWI believers victimized by the non-consented production in themselves of TWI’s synthetic cultic pseuo-self & pseudo-identity, they first need to return to their pre-TWI, true historical self, which may well require professional psychological assistance.
I, for one, have no desire to return to my "pre-TWI, true historical self": and I'm certainly not about to pay someone to "assist" me in that way.
Thank you all for your responses. PLEASE remember that this thread was started to help answer a question by a new poster regarding adjusting to life outside the walls of TWI.
Hi, jkb - this has been a very interesting thread, & your last post really got to me. I have been wondering, is it possible to return to one's true self? How? And how would you know?
If your experiences and if your thoughts are not pertinent to the initial question, then please start your own thread or post elsewhere. This thread is intended to specifically address this question.
Free Soul, I think I got your name wrong in the title, and I apologize for that.
To know if you returned to your "true self" you would have to know who that is on some level. Some of that comes from evaluating whether or not you are behaving in a way that lines up with what you think and believe to be true and correct.
"Cognitive Dissonance" is the technical term for people who act contrary to what they believe. It can literally make a person sick.
For example: many of us did not buy a home because that's what TWI told us was right even though all logic and common sense shows that if one is going to be in an area for a long period of time that it is the wisest and most financially sound thing to do. Many people wanted to buy a home so that their children could go to the same school system throughout their education instead of having to move every year or so because of rent prices, landlords selling homes, etc.
Another example is how craig used to teach all the time about letting the "peace of God rule" in our hearts, but we weren't allowed to do that because THEY told us what behaviors were supposed to lead to that.
Learning to make our own decisions and to succeed or fail by them is probably one of the hardest things I had to deal with when I left. I was so used to TWI and my ex-husband telling me what was proper, acceptable and good and I was expected to follow that direction regardless of how I really felt about things. I eventually got to where I didn't think about things - I just did what I knew I was supposed to do in order to keep from getting yelled at. Those things caused anxiety, panic attacks and depression for me because I did not agree, deep down, that they were right.
Now, if I feel uncomfortable about something, I do something about it. If that means NOT doing something, then that's what it means. Learning to listen to myself, my feelings, emotions and "intuitions" (for lack of a better word) has been a slow but very rewarding process.
Hopefully these ideas and suggestions are helpful. :)
First I believe that it is pretty hard to shake your identity even if you don't have a strong conscious awareness of what it is or who you are. For most , it is a life long process but our personal instincts can help us avoid problems even though we might in fact wind up with those problems no matter what. Most of the people who were in TWI in the 70s were of the generation that really wanted to make a difference thus it was of little surprise that TWI grew as a result of this. Lots of alternative setups flourished for the very same reason. TWI overlayed a lot of crap on top of people who were fundamentally interested in making an improvement in their own lives and the lives of others. After you leave that environment it might take a while to peel off those layers of guilt, oppression, and general BS that had been sandblasted on by years in what was an unhealthy , demanding, black-and-white enviroment. So its of little surprise that people struggle with this and might in fact mistake their Way habits for being part of their authentic self. But given time and enough exposure to "normal" living one can see that those "teachings" and attitudes were an imposition on what was a basically well meaning human being. In this light the process to recovering your original "self" and reconnecting to your youthful optimism becomes much easier. Of course we do know that some people very much enjoyed being leaders while in TWI and it gave them an opportunity to act out control scenarios and push others around. In these cases I think that those people just carred into the Way their problems and insecurities but never really solved or addressed them.
Well so much for the psycho babble but I think the human spirit is pretty resilient and as long as someone has a genuine interest in improvement and moving forward then things happen much quicker.
Diazbro and Belle- Thanks for sharing. I never snapped back to anything related to the old. I just worked thru alot of wrong teachings. I think Belle that is what your addressing here. I had to fight the why's and my own doctrinal issues that came from TWI 11 not TWI 1, I think I got so exhausted from TWI 11 stuff, rendering the fat from that was enough!!!!! Diazbro - I do understand your comments too and appreciate your time and interest.It helps:)
First I believe that it is pretty hard to shake your identity even if you don't have a strong conscious awareness of what it is or who you are...
I agree to a degree. I think it's highly possible to supress your identity under serious duress and stress. That's what happened to me. I became a totally different person in practically every way. My grandmother said she would not have recognized me if she were to meet me on the street and outside of a family function. I hardly smiled, hardly laughed, didn't really make jokes, was extremely impatient and insensitive with others, was downright rude in some situations and regarding some topics...
It took the scales starting to fall away and realizing who I had become and what I had done to try to fit into the TWIt mold before I started getting back to my "true self". Talking to family and friends about how I 'used to be' before TWI helped a great deal with me.
TWI overlayed a lot of crap on top of people who were fundamentally interested in making an improvement in their own lives and the lives of others. After you leave that environment it might take a while to peel off those layers of guilt, oppression, and general BS that had been sandblasted on by years in what was an unhealthy , demanding, black-and-white enviroment. So its of little surprise that people struggle with this and might in fact mistake their Way habits for being part of their authentic self. But given time and enough exposure to "normal" living one can see that those "teachings" and attitudes were an imposition on what was a basically well meaning human being. In this light the process to recovering your original "self" and reconnecting to your youthful optimism becomes much easier.
Perzackly! Great way of stating that, too, if I may say so.
Of course we do know that some people very much enjoyed being leaders while in TWI and it gave them an opportunity to act out control scenarios and push others around. In these cases I think that those people just carred into the Way their problems and insecurities but never really solved or addressed them.
Very true! I don't know that I've looked at that that way before. Thank you.
Well so much for the psycho babble but I think the human spirit is pretty resilient and as long as someone has a genuine interest in improvement and moving forward then things happen much quicker.
Very good observation and thank God that we are so resilient!
I think that all start with the answer to why we get in? And when we start feeling so many presion? And finally that it is Just a Problem between yourself and God. And that God is Love. By the way LCM is not God!
When I left the W.C., I was a jerk. My family who always loved me and mostly supported me (even financially in the W.C.) thought I was more like Jim Jones than Jesus Christ when I left The Way and went back to family. It took a long time to gnaw the shackles off my heart and ankle. I remember waking up one morning and thinking - What do I do today? No one is telling me to do anything so what do I do? Who am I anymore? I saw myself through the narrow behavior modification of what was acceptable in The Way. I remember being yelled at that "nice" was not a fruit of the spirit so I thought hm...maybe I'm weak to be nice so I tried to be umm...not nice. Which for me meant not smiling, not really friendly and when it was all said and done, not very happy. I was only allowed to be "me" within the confines of what someone else said I was acceptable as - not the Christ in Me with all the attributes of WHO I AM. Coming back to my true self meant easing up on being such a jerk to myself. It meant being friendly and even sometimes being lazy (lions and tigers and bears - ohmy!). I think I found the balance. Now I can get the heat but not be burned by the fire. Close but not too close. My marriage benefits from it and I am walking with God. Truly walking with God, not fumbling around for him in a haze of "What's right?" or "what's right, right now?" Thanks for your answer. I'm still healing but I look in the mirror and I can see me AND the God in Christ in ME.
The danishes are sticky but super yummy! Thanks for the napkin!
Wow, this is so great - thanks, Belle, for starting this new thread! I appreciate you providing this space to explore the issue. I will look for copies of the books you referenced; I'm a reader anyway & am already familiar with the term "cognitive dissonance", although I haven't thought about it lately. Diazbro mentioned identity, & it occurred to me that my identity probably went underground very early on. Without elaborating, the betrayals came early & continued up through about a year ago. TWI didn't start the damage, or finish it, but they did contribute in 2 very significant ways. One is that I no longer trust "God people" - I keep waiting for the masks to come off & the ugliness to be revealed. Secondly, indirect damage by TWI from people who are or were in & were spouting their poison. I used to wonder how it was that words that came from the mouths of God's people could make me feel so bad? Anyway, because of these things & more I prefer to be by myself. But, I keep getting the nagging notion that I need to go to church somewhere. It's a massive case of the "shoulds". My rational side says it would be nice & maybe even fulfilling, but my non-commital side runs screaming. Yeah, I know what the Bible says about being double-minded, so now I can add "unstable in all my ways" to the mix.
Professional psychological assistance is on my list of things to do when I can afford it. In the meantime I read whatever I think might help. No doubt reading the Bible would be the best thing to read, but I can't bring myself to do it. I get angry. Betrayal & anger washes over me like a shower. How can I believe anything that comes out of anyone's mouth?
Christ in you. God loves me. It sounds good, & I want to believe it. But I don't trust.
I think Belle, rascal, & diazbro have offered you some excellent food for thought.
By the way, one of the most common psychological damages experienced by an ex-cult individual is the loss of the capacity & ability to have a personal relationship with their perceived 'Creator.' For some folks this is only temporary, but for others it is painfully permanent.
Keep reading: there is no such thing as 'fallacious devil spirits' or ghosts!!!
Wow, this is so great - thanks, Belle, for starting this new thread! I appreciate you providing this space to explore the issue. I will look for copies of the books you referenced; I'm a reader anyway & am already familiar with the term "cognitive dissonance", although I haven't thought about it lately. Diazbro mentioned identity, & it occurred to me that my identity probably went underground very early on. Without elaborating, the betrayals came early & continued up through about a year ago. TWI didn't start the damage, or finish it, but they did contribute in 2 very significant ways. One is that I no longer trust "God people" - I keep waiting for the masks to come off & the ugliness to be revealed. Secondly, indirect damage by TWI from people who are or were in & were spouting their poison. I used to wonder how it was that words that came from the mouths of God's people could make me feel so bad? Anyway, because of these things & more I prefer to be by myself. But, I keep getting the nagging notion that I need to go to church somewhere. It's a massive case of the "shoulds". My rational side says it would be nice & maybe even fulfilling, but my non-commital side runs screaming. Yeah, I know what the Bible says about being double-minded, so now I can add "unstable in all my ways" to the mix.
Professional psychological assistance is on my list of things to do when I can afford it. In the meantime I read whatever I think might help. No doubt reading the Bible would be the best thing to read, but I can't bring myself to do it. I get angry. Betrayal & anger washes over me like a shower. How can I believe anything that comes out of anyone's mouth?
Christ in you. God loves me. It sounds good, & I want to believe it. But I don't trust.
Free Soul,
Welcome to gsc!
A suggestion to you in regard to your need to go to church somewhere. Take a little time off! Relax!
It will take a while to get the twi cobwebs out of the head...but they need to be shaken loose!
Then check out a batch of them. A different one every week! I might suggest 2 or 3 different ones from the same denomination even. There are differences in congregations, believe me. Even if you find one you like, keep looking! Don't just do the nondenominationals or the fundamentalists...check out the traditional/ liturgical ones like the Lutherans or Episcopals, as well. If there is an Eastern Orthodox church in your area, go to one of their liturgies...you will NEVER see anything as beautiful as a well-done orthodox litugy (and they are usually VERY nice people and almost always have GOOD food).
If you have questions on the doctrine of a particular group, you can more than likely find it on the web...or you can ask here. I think just about every brand of Christianity is represented by some poster here. You can usually get a good answer (of course, depending upon the denomination, you may have to wade through a bunch of **DON'T DO IT** posts, as well).
But the point is to check out a batch of churches and find the one or ones you feel comfortable with.
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oldiesman
I think it's an interesting discussion for folks, deciding what their true self should be.
Reminds me of a couple of John Lynn's books, "Will the Real You Please Stand Up" and,
"Will The Real You Please Remain Standing"...
We learned in twi that the "real you" is the Christ in you.
Not the "old man" and his ways.
And, everything to get your mind in alignment and harmony with "the real you", the Christ in you, the new man, is a godly endeavor.
So I think it all goes back to the essential question...what a person decides for themself, is really them.
Here are a couple of verses to consider:
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themex
I work so hard to do, learn, practise the Word that I do not kown were is the line between me and The Way/Word. I know what The Word saids about so many topics, that I just do that. I am married with an unbelievier as a matter of fact with a spiritis girl, but I practice so many thing of the Word in my marriage. I try to avoid direct confrontation a lot, but I confront the problemas. I try to live light.
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rascal
Welcome true soul..... rediscovery of *true self* has been an exciting journey ....
You can look at it as an exhillerating adventure....starting over from scratch....you are not required to supress your thoughts or emotions....who you are ever again.
Find what you enjoy...bowling.... skydiving...motorcycle clubs....lol
It has been an exciting adventure to reaquaint myself with my estranged family....Becoming an active and apreciated member in my community has been rewarding.
I enjoy meeting new people of varying back grounds and interests because I feel they help bring balance to my perspective.
Mostly I enjoy the things that were denied me in twi....
*serious* pets ...I am free to pick up and take care of as many strays as I can afford to feed...lol be they equine feline canine human...lol
I enjoy studying karate with my kiddoes and even competing..... I enjoy raising and training my equine babies....
Just find what you enjoy ...
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oldiesman
Ah Rascal, my carnal pleasures ...
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themex
Oldiesman You learned that from VPW or LCM? because those were them To.
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jkboehme
Per OM:
This might be the case, OM, were it not for the barrage of covert packaged persuasion fired at us by unethical TWI when we were in a state of transient vulnerability. For those TWI believers victimized by the non-consented production in themselves of TWI’s synthetic cultic pseuo-self & pseudo-identity, they first need to return to their pre-TWI, true historical self, which may well require professional psychological assistance. Only then can the person genuinely pursue understanding their true historical self. By the way, the ‘real you’ can only be genuinely determined by an individual in an environment totally free of covertly imposed mental manipulation, thought reform, packaged persuasion.
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oldiesman
Jkboehme, can you please use larger print, I can't see.
From 1975 to 1991, some 16 years, I went to twig approximately once a week, with other sporadic twi events other times.
But that's approx. 2 hours out of 168 hours per week, to get a dose of your so-called covert packaged persuasion, that according to you, was supposed to brainwash my neuro transmitters.
I don't know what you define as covert packaged persuasion, but I think you "have some explaining to do".
I thought the twigs I attended were excellent and godly. Others folks of different beliefs and religions might disagree, but those were my beliefs, and we are still free in this country to worship God how we choose.
I believed what God wanted me to learn from the bible, and nothing covert about it.
The twig coordinators were excellent too...
The bible speaks of thought reform, a large part of your attempted condemnation is what a Christian is asked to do with their own mind, to become more Christ-like. Here's just one verse:
Your opinion that any thought reform we experienced in twi was "non-consented" by folks is another opinion of yours that is unproven, and begs much explanation.
And, you still haven't answered my other questions.
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hiway29
16 years of going to twig once a week? I don't know where you come from, but in my neck of the way woods that's almost inconceivable. For most, (or almost all) so called 'committed believers', life was a calendar jammed with twig meetings, leaders meetings, classes, witnessing nights, various and sundry responsibilities , and any other 'necessary' off the cuff meeting or reproof session that might arise.
If you maintained a distance from all that, it explains alot of why you're unable to comprehend the depth of abuse and control that they inflicted on a daily basis.
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Morgan
jkboehme, excellent response!!!!
Oldies,
"From 1975 to 1991, some 16 years, I went to twig approximately once a week, with other sporadic twi events other times.
But that's approx. 2 hours out of 168 hours per week, to get a dose of your so-called covert packaged persuasion, that according to you, was supposed to brainwash my neuro transmitters."
That may have been YOUR experience and perspective - but it is NOT the experience or perspective of many others. Perhaps a thread about "returning to your true self" is not for you, as you feel you have never left behind/burried your true self. Others feel they did and it is most likely their persective this thread is searching for.
What you have attempted to do is disallow anyone else's perspective by posting as if such things never occured, simply because you feel it did not happen to you. That just stinks.
"The twig coordinators were excellent too..."
Glad you had excellent twig coordinators. Some of did not, despite your wonderful experience. Hard for you to believe, I realize.
"Your opinion that any thought reform we experienced in twi was "non-consented" by folks is another opinion of yours that is unproven, and begs much explanation."
Consented to or not, many of us feel it took place, often without our being aware of it. It is difficult to consent to something you are not aware is occuring.
The person I was pre-TWI and the person I became while IN TWI are two very different people. Some of the person I became while in TWI, I respect and love - those traits I have retained. The rest I have tossed. Some of the person I was pre-TWI I despise and I have continued to reject those traits.
One of the great things about leaving TWI and "starting over" so to speak, is that you can take some time and figure out who you want to be. What do you value, what do you find distasteful? What do you enjoy doing?
Take some time, think those things through. Perhaps even do some research on various issues that might come to mind regarding politics, religion, ethics, etc. and then decide.
You will find that some things are just core to who you are. You may have burried them during TWI, but they will resurface again in time. Other things are maleable and you can pick and choose among them, make an educated decision about them.
Do you value fine clothes and dining? Or perhaps you value a quiet evening at home with a couple cherished friends, dressed in blue jeans or sweats? Those things may sound superficial, but you will find they really aren't.
You can experiment too. Try new things that you've never tried before and see what you think of them. Have fun with finding yourself and recreating yourself. And give yourself lots of room and time.
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Morgan
"Your opinion that any thought reform we experienced in twi was "non-consented" by folks is another opinion of yours that is unproven, and begs much explanation."
BTW, Oldies, no one owes you an explanation for their opinions, thoughts, or experiences. Nor, do we have to "prove" them to you.
Anyone who has read more than a handful or so of your posts is aware that your experience in TWI was different from the experience many other posters had (hell we all had unique experiences, no?). Likewise, we realize that no amount of explaining is going to help you understand some of these things that you plainly do not get.
However, many of us get it without explanation, because we felt/expienced similar things. We do not need to explain to each other these subjects. Nor do we have to spend countless hours trying to help you see that which you apparently cannot.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
i do not often have advice but at this time i would suggest that you walk not run into your new life.
it is so wonderful when things go at a slower pace
corney, but do stop and smell the roses
and remember god does love you 
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GeorgeStGeorge
I, for one, have no desire to return to my "pre-TWI, true historical self": and I'm certainly not about to pay someone to "assist" me in that way.
George
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Belle
Thank you all for your responses. PLEASE remember that this thread was started to help answer a question by a new poster regarding adjusting to life outside the walls of TWI.
If your experiences and if your thoughts are not pertinent to the initial question, then please start your own thread or post elsewhere. This thread is intended to specifically address this question.
Free Soul, I think I got your name wrong in the title, and I apologize for that.
To know if you returned to your "true self" you would have to know who that is on some level. Some of that comes from evaluating whether or not you are behaving in a way that lines up with what you think and believe to be true and correct.
"Cognitive Dissonance" is the technical term for people who act contrary to what they believe. It can literally make a person sick.
For example: many of us did not buy a home because that's what TWI told us was right even though all logic and common sense shows that if one is going to be in an area for a long period of time that it is the wisest and most financially sound thing to do. Many people wanted to buy a home so that their children could go to the same school system throughout their education instead of having to move every year or so because of rent prices, landlords selling homes, etc.
Another example is how craig used to teach all the time about letting the "peace of God rule" in our hearts, but we weren't allowed to do that because THEY told us what behaviors were supposed to lead to that.
Learning to make our own decisions and to succeed or fail by them is probably one of the hardest things I had to deal with when I left. I was so used to TWI and my ex-husband telling me what was proper, acceptable and good and I was expected to follow that direction regardless of how I really felt about things. I eventually got to where I didn't think about things - I just did what I knew I was supposed to do in order to keep from getting yelled at. Those things caused anxiety, panic attacks and depression for me because I did not agree, deep down, that they were right.
Now, if I feel uncomfortable about something, I do something about it. If that means NOT doing something, then that's what it means. Learning to listen to myself, my feelings, emotions and "intuitions" (for lack of a better word) has been a slow but very rewarding process.
Hopefully these ideas and suggestions are helpful. :)
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oldiesman
Belle, what do you think of the statement that for a Christian, the "real you" is the new man, Christ in you?
Bogus?
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Morgan
Gee Oldies, do you have difficulties with reading comprehension?
Perhaps if your question is that important to you, you could start another thread on that topic in the doctrinal forum where it rightly belongs.
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oldiesman
Morgan,
I think the question of knowing what ones true self is in light of their possible Christian beliefs is very relevant to this thread.
You may disagree, and that's fine.
But bear in mind, this is a public forum, and therefore open to varying opinions.
If you and Belle want to have a private meeting excluding others, go right ahead.
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diazbro
First I believe that it is pretty hard to shake your identity even if you don't have a strong conscious awareness of what it is or who you are. For most , it is a life long process but our personal instincts can help us avoid problems even though we might in fact wind up with those problems no matter what. Most of the people who were in TWI in the 70s were of the generation that really wanted to make a difference thus it was of little surprise that TWI grew as a result of this. Lots of alternative setups flourished for the very same reason. TWI overlayed a lot of crap on top of people who were fundamentally interested in making an improvement in their own lives and the lives of others. After you leave that environment it might take a while to peel off those layers of guilt, oppression, and general BS that had been sandblasted on by years in what was an unhealthy , demanding, black-and-white enviroment. So its of little surprise that people struggle with this and might in fact mistake their Way habits for being part of their authentic self. But given time and enough exposure to "normal" living one can see that those "teachings" and attitudes were an imposition on what was a basically well meaning human being. In this light the process to recovering your original "self" and reconnecting to your youthful optimism becomes much easier. Of course we do know that some people very much enjoyed being leaders while in TWI and it gave them an opportunity to act out control scenarios and push others around. In these cases I think that those people just carred into the Way their problems and insecurities but never really solved or addressed them.
Well so much for the psycho babble but I think the human spirit is pretty resilient and as long as someone has a genuine interest in improvement and moving forward then things happen much quicker.
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likeaneagle
Diazbro and Belle- Thanks for sharing. I never snapped back to anything related to the old. I just worked thru alot of wrong teachings. I think Belle that is what your addressing here. I had to fight the why's and my own doctrinal issues that came from TWI 11 not TWI 1, I think I got so exhausted from TWI 11 stuff, rendering the fat from that was enough!!!!! Diazbro - I do understand your comments too and appreciate your time and interest.It helps:)
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Belle
Diazbro, excellent psycho babble! :)
I agree to a degree. I think it's highly possible to supress your identity under serious duress and stress. That's what happened to me. I became a totally different person in practically every way. My grandmother said she would not have recognized me if she were to meet me on the street and outside of a family function. I hardly smiled, hardly laughed, didn't really make jokes, was extremely impatient and insensitive with others, was downright rude in some situations and regarding some topics...It took the scales starting to fall away and realizing who I had become and what I had done to try to fit into the TWIt mold before I started getting back to my "true self". Talking to family and friends about how I 'used to be' before TWI helped a great deal with me.
Perzackly! Great way of stating that, too, if I may say so.
Very true! I don't know that I've looked at that that way before. Thank you.Very good observation and thank God that we are so resilient!
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themex
I think that all start with the answer to why we get in? And when we start feeling so many presion? And finally that it is Just a Problem between yourself and God. And that God is Love. By the way LCM is not God!
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Thin Lizzy
WOW Belle! You nailed it!!!
When I left the W.C., I was a jerk. My family who always loved me and mostly supported me (even financially in the W.C.) thought I was more like Jim Jones than Jesus Christ when I left The Way and went back to family. It took a long time to gnaw the shackles off my heart and ankle. I remember waking up one morning and thinking - What do I do today? No one is telling me to do anything so what do I do? Who am I anymore? I saw myself through the narrow behavior modification of what was acceptable in The Way. I remember being yelled at that "nice" was not a fruit of the spirit so I thought hm...maybe I'm weak to be nice so I tried to be umm...not nice. Which for me meant not smiling, not really friendly and when it was all said and done, not very happy. I was only allowed to be "me" within the confines of what someone else said I was acceptable as - not the Christ in Me with all the attributes of WHO I AM. Coming back to my true self meant easing up on being such a jerk to myself. It meant being friendly and even sometimes being lazy (lions and tigers and bears - ohmy!). I think I found the balance. Now I can get the heat but not be burned by the fire. Close but not too close. My marriage benefits from it and I am walking with God. Truly walking with God, not fumbling around for him in a haze of "What's right?" or "what's right, right now?" Thanks for your answer. I'm still healing but I look in the mirror and I can see me AND the God in Christ in ME.
The danishes are sticky but super yummy! Thanks for the napkin!
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Free Soul
Wow, this is so great - thanks, Belle, for starting this new thread! I appreciate you providing this space to explore the issue. I will look for copies of the books you referenced; I'm a reader anyway & am already familiar with the term "cognitive dissonance", although I haven't thought about it lately. Diazbro mentioned identity, & it occurred to me that my identity probably went underground very early on. Without elaborating, the betrayals came early & continued up through about a year ago. TWI didn't start the damage, or finish it, but they did contribute in 2 very significant ways. One is that I no longer trust "God people" - I keep waiting for the masks to come off & the ugliness to be revealed. Secondly, indirect damage by TWI from people who are or were in & were spouting their poison. I used to wonder how it was that words that came from the mouths of God's people could make me feel so bad? Anyway, because of these things & more I prefer to be by myself. But, I keep getting the nagging notion that I need to go to church somewhere. It's a massive case of the "shoulds". My rational side says it would be nice & maybe even fulfilling, but my non-commital side runs screaming. Yeah, I know what the Bible says about being double-minded, so now I can add "unstable in all my ways" to the mix.
Professional psychological assistance is on my list of things to do when I can afford it. In the meantime I read whatever I think might help. No doubt reading the Bible would be the best thing to read, but I can't bring myself to do it. I get angry. Betrayal & anger washes over me like a shower. How can I believe anything that comes out of anyone's mouth?
Christ in you. God loves me. It sounds good, & I want to believe it. But I don't trust.
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jkboehme
Welcome Free Soul!
I think Belle, rascal, & diazbro have offered you some excellent food for thought.
By the way, one of the most common psychological damages experienced by an ex-cult individual is the loss of the capacity & ability to have a personal relationship with their perceived 'Creator.' For some folks this is only temporary, but for others it is painfully permanent.
Keep reading: there is no such thing as 'fallacious devil spirits' or ghosts!!!
jkb
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markomalley
Free Soul,
Welcome to gsc!
A suggestion to you in regard to your need to go to church somewhere. Take a little time off! Relax!
It will take a while to get the twi cobwebs out of the head...but they need to be shaken loose!
Then check out a batch of them. A different one every week! I might suggest 2 or 3 different ones from the same denomination even. There are differences in congregations, believe me. Even if you find one you like, keep looking! Don't just do the nondenominationals or the fundamentalists...check out the traditional/ liturgical ones like the Lutherans or Episcopals, as well. If there is an Eastern Orthodox church in your area, go to one of their liturgies...you will NEVER see anything as beautiful as a well-done orthodox litugy (and they are usually VERY nice people and almost always have GOOD food).
If you have questions on the doctrine of a particular group, you can more than likely find it on the web...or you can ask here. I think just about every brand of Christianity is represented by some poster here. You can usually get a good answer (of course, depending upon the denomination, you may have to wade through a bunch of **DON'T DO IT** posts, as well).
But the point is to check out a batch of churches and find the one or ones you feel comfortable with.
But first take a little time and get YOU back.
Again, welcome!
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