Looks like the Bally Total Fitness deal is not only a BIG ripoff, but bordering on being a scam to get more money from people who don't read the agreement very well.
Also is this the real area where Craig is one of the "fitness" trainers????
If so, would it be possible to let people know who he is and what he has done so that they can make an informed decision on whether or not to stay? If i was a member and didn't know, i would like to know what kind of deal he was doing to womenand got nailed for.
I'm friendly with the owner of RipOffReport.com and read his site daily. Saw this and had to pass the link on in chat .. nice to see it got posted in here too for all to see.
I posted on that site, but ended up picking up a stalker so had to take a leave from there and only read for awhile till he leaves me alone. I hope others will feel free to post. NO information is given out on you, I exchanged info with the guy who stalked me, it's my own fault and we did it away from that website totally, so there's nothing to fear there. That jerk doesn't post there any longer either after I called and told the EDitor what he was doing to me. In case he reads there still though, please, don't mention my nickname in any posts you may do on that site. I don't need him harassing me more.
There are two ways to post, you can comment via a rebuttal on the thread that's already going, or file your own RipOffReport with the other one and title it whatever you want. The 2nd option would probably be the best way if TWI was going to be talked about more so it doesn't distract from the Bally's tread.
Sucks to be me, I'd love to post but I use my real name when I post there and he knows it, so I don't dare risk it. Well, I guess I could make up a new account with a fake name just to give a thumb's up to the post that's there and any done from the gang in here. That way no one will know who I am .. hmm .. I have some gmail accounts too, so it's doable. :)
I should have been tipped off when they rushed me through the application (I like to read the fine print). They told me I had a 3 day window in which to change my mind.
these days a lot of marketing is based on giving the customer a very limited time and make it so that he/she has to make up his/her mind very quickly. remember years ago...not that many...when each Sunday newspaper would come out with a week's worth of sales? Now a lot of those sales come out daily and some give you only 6 hours or so to snap up their "bargains".
Unless ol' Craiggers has moved, he was actually working at a Bally's in Toledo, OH. (I know this for a fact because I visited the site and saw his personal trainer sheet -- a document each trainer posted in the gym with a picture and a short bio.)
This marketing, advertising, & sales b.s. has been going on for a very long time.
John Watson, a pioneer in the behavior modification field, left academia to accept a position at an advertising firm, J. Walter Thompson, circa ~ 1920. The techniques of manipulating humankind’s shortcut capacity for ‘automatic responding’ were now becoming the basis for marketing. The techniques have only been refined since that time & are very much in corporate application, albeit much of it being distinctly unethical.
These unethical marketing, advertising, & sales techniques are described extremely well in University of Arizona psychologist Dr. Richard Cialdini’s book, Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion.
LCM, as a Bally personal trainer, is probably heavily involved in selling the above-mentioned types of contracts. I would imagine that the king of ‘Mo Tech’ does rather well with this unethical selling, no doubt with a focus on women. Presuming he has a base salary & then gets a commission for each personal trainer contract sale, he probably comes away with a decent income, & gets a chance to plug the whole in the ladies’ deficient hedge & relatively untapped resources.
Ballys is a terrible place IMHO. They do not give you a workout place for so much a month. They have you actually sign paperwork for a loan. Your monthly dues are the monthly amount of the loan. They never tell you are are signing up for a loan. If you decide to back out before you pay off the loan, your credit is screwed.
If I walked in to a place to meet up with a personal trainer and saw martinfail, I would turn around and walk out. There is no way in hell I would ever knowingly be in the same building as that BIG ARSE! I would have wayyyy too many questions for his sorry foot.
So craiggers has his own entry in wikipedia? Interesting....
I was looking at their site again <_<
Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship is our ministry, and with it come a myriad of supporting responsibilities to see that God’s Word prevails in our day and time.
Subtle way of saying that your life will no longer be your own and we will be requiring you to perform those supporting responsibilities?
Lack of spiritual strength caused by neglect of the Word of God may today be attributed to the fact that the Bible is not understood when read. People have not been taught how to understand things like figures of speech, Eastern customs, what revelation truly is, and the accuracy of the Word. Our ministry provides this service and direction.
This shows how out of touch they are with what goes on in the modern churches. They have no idea what's being taught, nor that much of it's being taught better, more accurately and with a heck of a lot more love than in TWI.
Since 1942, our ministry has provided Biblical research that is being used throughout the world today.
Does this sound misleading to anyone else?
We are dedicated to setting before people the astonishing accuracy and practicality of God’s Word and letting people decide for themselves whether or not to believe it or use it.
What they don't mention here is that if one decides NOT to believe or "use" it according to how TWI teaches and requires that they are anathema and accursed. It doesn't mention that they will be spiritually blackmailed and that their reputations will be maligned.
We are ever seeking to teach how to better appropriate the promises that God has given us of a more abundant life.
Just listen to what we say and don't look at how we live.
In our fellowships The Way Ministry teaches what we have researched in our over sixty-year history.
Shortly before I left they were making a big deal about how many years TWI has been around. What's funny to me now is that they are pathetically young in the whole scheme of things and that emphasizing just how "young" they are lends absolutely no credibility or stability or integrity to their organization like they seem to think it does. It's laughable to me now how proud I was of those sixty years.
I want this page's POV removed by the end of the weekend, if possible. Anyone reading this message: please help POV this article ASAP. I have already tried, although weasel statements and rushing are my primary weaknesses....
This category has a lot of potential. We may be able to completely delete or merge all the articles I made about people. Other TWI articles include:
* The Rock of Ages Festival
* Way Productions
* Mark and Avoid
Deckiller 23:52, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
* I'd like to see the POV removed as well. I did some work on it a month ago, but with having had contact with the group, it's very hard work. If you'd like to kick around some ideas or specifics here, I'll try to work with you. Grumpyoldgeek 04:36, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
I was in the group as well. I'll try to start throwing ideas sometime this weekend. Deckiller 00:33, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
POV = Point Of View
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, so they want the facts and just the facts. BUT it looks like they are looking for some facts! AND anyone can edit and submit information there, so if you're so inclined, looks like they would appreciate your input.
Someone in Hot Lanta (BG?) has already been supplying information, shouldn't we do the same?
I had a very weird experience with Wikipedia. I looked up Rome City, Indiana and it had a small section about TWI having a campus there. The sentance at the end says
"Famous members of The Way, a non denominational biblical research ministry often considered a cult, include model Lake Daily, art dealer Island Weis, rapper D-Tension and former New England Patriots players Tony Collins and Irving Fryer."
I'm rapper D-Tension! When did I get to be so famous? And how was that connection made? Freaky.
The Rock of Ages Festival was an annual meeting for members of The Way International. At this week-long meeting, members camped out in tents or RVs on The Way International's campus at New Knoxville, Ohio.
The Rock of Ages featured children's events and fellowship, a daily biblical meeting hosted by the organization's president under the "big top" tent, food and entertainment, and bible studies. Tickets cost approximately 100 USD.
The festival was stopped in 1995 for several reasons. One of the most common reasons was that several groups of teenagers were accused of having sexual intercourse throughout the event
Campus? 100 bucks? How about...
Reasons for Mark and Avoid
Debt
Disagreement
Egotistical behavior
Fornication
Homosexuality
Insubordination
Refusal
Numbers 3&4 alone would take out most TWI leadership. This is good.
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danteh1
Very interesting report Excathedra.
Looks like the Bally Total Fitness deal is not only a BIG ripoff, but bordering on being a scam to get more money from people who don't read the agreement very well.
Also is this the real area where Craig is one of the "fitness" trainers????
If so, would it be possible to let people know who he is and what he has done so that they can make an informed decision on whether or not to stay? If i was a member and didn't know, i would like to know what kind of deal he was doing to womenand got nailed for.
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BikerBabe
I'm friendly with the owner of RipOffReport.com and read his site daily. Saw this and had to pass the link on in chat .. nice to see it got posted in here too for all to see.
I posted on that site, but ended up picking up a stalker so had to take a leave from there and only read for awhile till he leaves me alone. I hope others will feel free to post. NO information is given out on you, I exchanged info with the guy who stalked me, it's my own fault and we did it away from that website totally, so there's nothing to fear there. That jerk doesn't post there any longer either after I called and told the EDitor what he was doing to me. In case he reads there still though, please, don't mention my nickname in any posts you may do on that site. I don't need him harassing me more.
There are two ways to post, you can comment via a rebuttal on the thread that's already going, or file your own RipOffReport with the other one and title it whatever you want. The 2nd option would probably be the best way if TWI was going to be talked about more so it doesn't distract from the Bally's tread.
Sucks to be me, I'd love to post but I use my real name when I post there and he knows it, so I don't dare risk it. Well, I guess I could make up a new account with a fake name just to give a thumb's up to the post that's there and any done from the gang in here. That way no one will know who I am .. hmm .. I have some gmail accounts too, so it's doable. :)
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Lifted Up
these days a lot of marketing is based on giving the customer a very limited time and make it so that he/she has to make up his/her mind very quickly. remember years ago...not that many...when each Sunday newspaper would come out with a week's worth of sales? Now a lot of those sales come out daily and some give you only 6 hours or so to snap up their "bargains".
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TheHighWay
Danteh1,
Unless ol' Craiggers has moved, he was actually working at a Bally's in Toledo, OH. (I know this for a fact because I visited the site and saw his personal trainer sheet -- a document each trainer posted in the gym with a picture and a short bio.)
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jkboehme
This marketing, advertising, & sales b.s. has been going on for a very long time.
John Watson, a pioneer in the behavior modification field, left academia to accept a position at an advertising firm, J. Walter Thompson, circa ~ 1920. The techniques of manipulating humankind’s shortcut capacity for ‘automatic responding’ were now becoming the basis for marketing. The techniques have only been refined since that time & are very much in corporate application, albeit much of it being distinctly unethical.
These unethical marketing, advertising, & sales techniques are described extremely well in University of Arizona psychologist Dr. Richard Cialdini’s book, Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion.
LCM, as a Bally personal trainer, is probably heavily involved in selling the above-mentioned types of contracts. I would imagine that the king of ‘Mo Tech’ does rather well with this unethical selling, no doubt with a focus on women. Presuming he has a base salary & then gets a commission for each personal trainer contract sale, he probably comes away with a decent income, & gets a chance to plug the whole in the ladies’ deficient hedge & relatively untapped resources.
;)
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Nottawayfer
Ballys is a terrible place IMHO. They do not give you a workout place for so much a month. They have you actually sign paperwork for a loan. Your monthly dues are the monthly amount of the loan. They never tell you are are signing up for a loan. If you decide to back out before you pay off the loan, your credit is screwed.
If I walked in to a place to meet up with a personal trainer and saw martinfail, I would turn around and walk out. There is no way in hell I would ever knowingly be in the same building as that BIG ARSE! I would have wayyyy too many questions for his sorry foot.
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themex
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Belle
So craiggers has his own entry in wikipedia? Interesting....
I was looking at their site again <_<
Subtle way of saying that your life will no longer be your own and we will be requiring you to perform those supporting responsibilities?
This shows how out of touch they are with what goes on in the modern churches. They have no idea what's being taught, nor that much of it's being taught better, more accurately and with a heck of a lot more love than in TWI.Does this sound misleading to anyone else?
What they don't mention here is that if one decides NOT to believe or "use" it according to how TWI teaches and requires that they are anathema and accursed. It doesn't mention that they will be spiritually blackmailed and that their reputations will be maligned.Just listen to what we say and don't look at how we live.
Shortly before I left they were making a big deal about how many years TWI has been around. What's funny to me now is that they are pathetically young in the whole scheme of things and that emphasizing just how "young" they are lends absolutely no credibility or stability or integrity to their organization like they seem to think it does. It's laughable to me now how proud I was of those sixty years.
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Belle
POV = Point Of View
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, so they want the facts and just the facts. BUT it looks like they are looking for some facts! AND anyone can edit and submit information there, so if you're so inclined, looks like they would appreciate your input.
Someone in Hot Lanta (BG?) has already been supplying information, shouldn't we do the same?
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Georgio Jessio
I had a very weird experience with Wikipedia. I looked up Rome City, Indiana and it had a small section about TWI having a campus there. The sentance at the end says
"Famous members of The Way, a non denominational biblical research ministry often considered a cult, include model Lake Daily, art dealer Island Weis, rapper D-Tension and former New England Patriots players Tony Collins and Irving Fryer."
I'm rapper D-Tension! When did I get to be so famous? And how was that connection made? Freaky.
FYI TWI is listed in the wikipedia cult page.
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johniam
Interesting what wickepedia says...
The Rock of Ages Festival was an annual meeting for members of The Way International. At this week-long meeting, members camped out in tents or RVs on The Way International's campus at New Knoxville, Ohio.
The Rock of Ages featured children's events and fellowship, a daily biblical meeting hosted by the organization's president under the "big top" tent, food and entertainment, and bible studies. Tickets cost approximately 100 USD.
The festival was stopped in 1995 for several reasons. One of the most common reasons was that several groups of teenagers were accused of having sexual intercourse throughout the event
Campus? 100 bucks? How about...
Reasons for Mark and Avoid
Debt
Disagreement
Egotistical behavior
Fornication
Homosexuality
Insubordination
Refusal
Numbers 3&4 alone would take out most TWI leadership. This is good.
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