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Yeah, Twinky your post got me thinking about something - - not sure where this came from - - but I’ve usually been the type to say you can’t judge peoples motives…and along with that my mind went to related ideas....actually....there’s been a couple of obfuscating ideas promoted by certain individuals on Grease Spot that went along the lines of justifying wierwille’s books, classes and ministry: One, is that he had good intentions (good motives) but was often or occasionally or once-in-a-blue-moon (I’ll leave it up to Grease Spotters to decide the frequency) stymied by bouts of sinfulness. And Two, sometimes wierwille-sympathizers like to appeal by consequential-ism – saying the end justifies the means........ “Alright so wierwille plagiarized a lot of material from many different sources – but bottom line is that he put it all together to give us “The Word” like it hasn’t been known for centuries.” hey, how about a round for the best cult-leader In thinking about this what kept swirling about in my head was the three aspects of a crime that must be established before guilt can be determined in a criminal proceeding: . Motive, means and opportunity == == == == Now getting back to the # 1 obfuscating idea – wierwille had a good motive/good intentions – I checked on how motive or intent are looked upon in the law: Motive is usually used in connection with Criminal Law to explain why a person acted or refused to act in a certain way—for example, to support the prosecution's assertion that the accused committed the crime. If a person accused of murder was the beneficiary of a life insurance policy on the deceased, the prosecution might argue that greed was the motive for the killing. Proof of motive is not required in a criminal prosecution. In determining the guilt of a criminal defendant, courts are generally not concerned with why the defendant committed the alleged crime, but whether the defendant committed the crime. However, a defendant's motive is important in other stages of a criminal case, such as police investigation and sentencing. Law enforcement personnel often consider potential motives in detecting perpetrators. Judges may consider the motives of a convicted defendant at sentencing and either increase a sentence based on avaricious motives or decrease the sentence if the defendant's motives were honorable—for example, if the accused acted in defense of a family member. In criminal law, motive is distinct from intent. Criminal intent refers to the mental state of mind possessed by a defendant in committing a crime. With few exceptions the prosecution in a criminal case must prove that the defendant intended to commit the illegal act. The prosecution need not prove the defendant's motive. Nevertheless, prosecutors and defense attorneys alike may make an issue of motive in connection with the case. (the above quote from: Legal use of motive) (also see Motive defined on Wikipedia ) In the case of ex-followers versus their former cult-leader - - wierwille’s motive can be used to explain why he acted a certain way. As in the above reference that talked about the beneficiary of a life insurance policy motivated by greed to commit the murder – I think the case could easily be made for wierwille’s lust for fame, fortune, power and pleasure drove him to establish an egocentric exploitative and parasitic organization. One has only to look at all that he had gained by sexually taking advantage of select women besides capitalizing on the time, resources, money, and hard work of other committed followers. == == == == Getting to the # 2 obfuscating idea – the end justifies the means…well, at this point I think the riddle of what came first the chicken or the egg? may be solved – by merely considering what wierwille taught as “The Word”. As far as I’m concerned that chicken$hit phony theologian wierwille comes first in laying an egg that hatched into the greatest scam in way-world today! That the word of God is…(drum roll please)… wierwille – oh God !!!! Yes..Yes...Yes ....take a good long look at the end – the establishment of an egocentric exploitative and parasitic organization and an insidious theology infused with the very essence of a sexually depraved megalomaniac. The means to build all that was wierwille building a facade of respectability…fabricating phenomenal events…manipulation....coercion...deception....harassment... lying and stealing and incompetently cobbling together a grossly skewed interpretation of The Bible. You know he wanted folks to take his PFAL class just so he could get his foot in the door – once “inside you” as a mindset the treachery escalates… So in PFAL I remember him teaching from the gospels about what is the greatest sin one can commit…oh yeah, oh yeah I remember that …by sheer logic it’s breaking the greatest commandments love God and love your neighbor…and therefore if you love God and neighbor you don’t go around breaking the 10 commandments anyway… -oh yeah the word means what it says and says what it means yada yada yada…. Yeah, stick around awhile…maybe go in the way corps…then you see the other side – the double standard that hypocrites use. The Bible forbids lying and stealing but that doesn’t apply to wierwille’s rampant plagiarism. The Bible forbids adultery – but that never stopped wierwille the sexual predator. Well in the end - if what you want is an egocentric exploitative and parasitic organization and an insidious theology infused with the very essence of a sexually depraved megalomaniac (commercial ad insertion: the insidious theology can be sold separately i.e. offshoots, splinter groups, etc. ) then I agree the end justifies the means – because I know of no better way to get there then by wierwille’s means. hey how about a round for the best cult-leader

Doncha love the "benefits of the class" - Learn how to: Get true peace in your life Know with certainty that you are going to heaven Develop a knowledge of the absolute goodness of God Know what happens when people die Enjoy reading the Bible Strengthen family relationships How to win in this life Hmm. If Jesus [who's he?] is a role model for "winning" "in this life" - the prize of crucifixion isn't one that would attract many people. Whoever said we would win in this life? Chapter and verse please! As to "Know with certainty that you are going to heaven" and "Know what happens when people die" - I know what the Bible says and what I understand and believe; but these "benefits" are still speculative. People don't come back from heaven (wherever or whatever that is) or after they've died, to tell us. We have a glorious future ahead of us - but we don't really know what it is going to be like. It will be different from this life, however, and beyond our wildest imaginings. I would say that all of the other things mentioned happen OUTSIDE TWI - and further, that any peace you have in your life now, or understanding of the goodness of God, or enjoyment in reading the Bible, and decent family relationships, will ALL BE SHATTERED BY TWI. And whoever put this poster together doesn't understand that they don't need to repeat the "how to" in the final benefit. They forgot to mention the charge, sorry donation, required for this "class series," too. Don't think I'll be in a hurry to sign up for this. (Runs away very fast.)

Whether it's the WAP class, the FLAP class or the CRAP class........it doesn't matter to the cult. The class is the mesmerizing monomania to which all in the cult bestow regurgitated renown. The clichés gain a life of their own.....repeated over and over, in the cult magazine, in home fellowships and sunday teachings. The repetition drowns out one's surroundings......drudgery and monotony and misery......and captivates the collective marching of symbolic syllogisms.

I'm one of those! (took "their class" in '75; went WOW 3 times) They ain't got me...and they ain't got mine --- and I have God to thank for that!

I personally do not really lay a finger of blame at those who were/ still are, involved with twi who were grass level, twig turner upper, help others get saved type of believers BUT there IS NO justification for them who were/still are in leadership positions who turned a blind eye to the insidious bs going on in that vile place. Now it seems with rnr off-shoot 'leadership' they are all about covering their own backsides as their lightbulb moment has hit them that they will not be taken care of by twit hq in their old age lol...every man and dog for themselves huh ?!

Only slightly ... WW's post led me to take a peek at their website, not a place I visit very often. And their theme for the coming year? "For the 2017-2018 ministry year, as we celebrate seventy-five years of Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship, our focus will be The Word of God Is the Will of God." How very original.

twi's running on inertia, and retaining people who were introduced in the 70s and 80s when there were real Christians on the field. Without that, they've got squat, and they haven't HAD squat for well over a decade. twi has nothing to induce GROWTH in any sizeable numbers, and is dying off as members get old and are kicked out as liabilities, or just plain drop dead even if they decide to stick around due to inertia.

That's the important thing about looking back. What happened? Why? How can (I) prevent this happening (to me) again? We will always come up against "red flags." Some we have to view with caution: proceed forward warily. Others definitely mean DO NOT PROCEED. Which is which? And how do we proceed? What do we do to stop getting into similar dangerous situations? How do we respond to red flags, now? At work? When we see something happening in our neighbourhood? In many cases, our friends and families warned us - and we didn't listen. How do we warn our own friends and families of dangerous situations that they might be wandering into? It doesn't mean being suspicious of everyone and everything. It does mean being vigilant (roaring lions bearing red flags are everywhere!). And it definitely means SPEAKING UP and "whistleblowing." Which is not easy when one is in a position of subservience to someone with power or authority, however it comes, over one's life.

Hi folks, it's been a day or two. Does anyone know where I can read a copy of the Waydale article I wrote called Destruction of Self? Am doing some writing on the subject, and wanted to re-read this article but can no longer find it on this site. Anyhoo, I am happily working in higher education, finished my MSHE a while back at Drexel University. Research Geek is still researching and is still a (lovable) Geek. Kittencup will be at Harvard next May. Mom is still doing well and will see her 92nd birthday on Sunday, celebrated with Kittencup who shares the same birthdate. All send their best. I hope this note finds all of you well and happy! =-^._.^=-