Absolutely Blarney, and BECAUSE God worked, showed himself strong even in SPITE of our misunderstandings...we in our arrogance assumed that we were right!!!
Gosh, one of those breakthrough moments.....whew
That arrogance is what can still hold us back today.
I think that last paragragh of your is worthy of a thread all of it`s own.
I'm still on a quest for God, and I consider my ten-yr experience with the group part of my learning, for good or bad. In retrospect, it was all there. We knew the scripture, the warnings about following men and not God. We knew that God himself wanted us to have a personal relationship with him. Yet, many of us chose to submit to various degrees. How could we not??? This was how it had been done for nearly 2000 years.
I think of the frog in the pot of water. I was blindsided by the ever-increasing demands placed on my life by TWI because of my simple love for God. And I tolerated the abuse. And my heart breaks for those who were subjected to worse treatment than I received -- and for those in all religious groups who are undergoing similar abuses.
It wasn't until last summer that I was able to put this all in perspective, even though I hadn't been part of TWI for nearly 20 years and had been briefly involved with one of the offshoots mentioned on the Greasespot page.
When I read this article, it was like lightening struck me. I prayerfully submit this here for consideration, that it will heal someone's heart, or at least put things together a little better:
Wayne Jacobsen has some really great insights. He has a site called "The God Journey" where he has free podcasts and a forum (the atmosphere is very friendly), and at times thought-provoking. I've been hanging with them for quite a while, but I've omitted my stint with the way as part of my MO. lol
The article, for me, was revolutionary in that it gave me permission to think what I had always seen in scripture -- that Jesus wants to build his church, and to lead us personally.
I consider myself a free agent, spiritually speaking. Currently, I'm serving at a Sunday club with music. But I don't view things the same anymore. Nor will I ever. God/The One has always worked beyond whatever definitions or parameters we have set for him. Go figure. He's/she's God. (for gender neutrality purposes)
I think you believe in your gut who you are and if you are connected to God and Jesus Christ. I took what TWI taught like a"class"...not a lifestyle. I knew in my heart I loved God...and still know that no matter how much I may screw up daily, monthly.....I love God and God loves me...personally. TWI taught me principles...I chose the ones that worked for me and discarded the others. I didn't read the whole post so off line.....sorry.
I mean, I believe in Jesus Christ, (I also believe in Budda), but did you really swallow PFAL hook line & sinker, or was there always doubt, in the back of your mind?...
Yeah – I bought into all the PFAL stuff. There was never any doubt while I was in TWI. Matter of fact the only doubt I wrestled with while in TWI was the self-doubt over my spiritual abilities – like operating all nine all the time or if I was really believing for something to happen.
I've done a 180 on this doubt thing. I now view doubt as being a good thing. All sorts of doubts arose after I left TWI. But rather than focusing on what was the problem within me – I turned my questioning around to analyze TWI's doctrine, the mindset they fostered and yes...even questioning the Bible. These doubts forced me to think about my faith, to unravel it, to figure out why I believed this or that, to ferret out any "invisible" assumptions I held - to get as much of my thinking process out in front.
I think doubt is an important element of our critical thinking process. It provides impetus to seek understanding…to double and triple check our thinking…And being a Christian it has been a surprising stimulus to strengthen my relationship with God and deepen my understanding of doctrine and personal application. I read an interesting book that might help some Christians who are afraid of doubt: The Sunnier Side of Doubt by Alister McGrath.
Excellent comment T-bone! As I left TWI, I went back to school, where I was forced to think on my own, and as it was a technical disipline, also to troubleshoot...to examine a system (Actually any system) and determine the faulty part. Applying these skills to the TWI machine was just short of frightening. So many broken parts. where to start?
I didn't believe everything in the class. I questioned a lot of it. Especially the mathematical approach of believing and operating the manifestation.
For example the more you believe the more you recieve-not true. It contradics the word. We can't work to believe. It was like applying a formula or something.
Same thing with the manifestations. How come I never got much revalation. I SITs as much as the next dupe.
There was some good stuff, and that I am thankful for. But they sure tried to make you pay for it.
That was the problem. I still believe but don't have to pay anymore.
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rascal
Absolutely Blarney, and BECAUSE God worked, showed himself strong even in SPITE of our misunderstandings...we in our arrogance assumed that we were right!!!
Gosh, one of those breakthrough moments.....whew
That arrogance is what can still hold us back today.
I think that last paragragh of your is worthy of a thread all of it`s own.
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blarney
Rascal,
I'm still on a quest for God, and I consider my ten-yr experience with the group part of my learning, for good or bad. In retrospect, it was all there. We knew the scripture, the warnings about following men and not God. We knew that God himself wanted us to have a personal relationship with him. Yet, many of us chose to submit to various degrees. How could we not??? This was how it had been done for nearly 2000 years.
I think of the frog in the pot of water. I was blindsided by the ever-increasing demands placed on my life by TWI because of my simple love for God. And I tolerated the abuse. And my heart breaks for those who were subjected to worse treatment than I received -- and for those in all religious groups who are undergoing similar abuses.
It wasn't until last summer that I was able to put this all in perspective, even though I hadn't been part of TWI for nearly 20 years and had been briefly involved with one of the offshoots mentioned on the Greasespot page.
When I read this article, it was like lightening struck me. I prayerfully submit this here for consideration, that it will heal someone's heart, or at least put things together a little better:
http://www.lifestream.org/LSBL.May04.html
I still really believe, but what I believe is ever harder to quantify, if that makes sense.
All the best,
Blarney
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Listener
Thanks for that link, Blarney. It is very cool!
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blarney
Listener,
Wayne Jacobsen has some really great insights. He has a site called "The God Journey" where he has free podcasts and a forum (the atmosphere is very friendly), and at times thought-provoking. I've been hanging with them for quite a while, but I've omitted my stint with the way as part of my MO. lol
The article, for me, was revolutionary in that it gave me permission to think what I had always seen in scripture -- that Jesus wants to build his church, and to lead us personally.
I consider myself a free agent, spiritually speaking. Currently, I'm serving at a Sunday club with music. But I don't view things the same anymore. Nor will I ever. God/The One has always worked beyond whatever definitions or parameters we have set for him. Go figure. He's/she's God. (for gender neutrality purposes)
Peace to you,
Blarney
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waterbuffalo
blarney, hey, welcome!
And, thanks for the link.
It was beautiful.
wb
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excathedra
i'd like to thank you too, blarney
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sogwap51
I think you believe in your gut who you are and if you are connected to God and Jesus Christ. I took what TWI taught like a"class"...not a lifestyle. I knew in my heart I loved God...and still know that no matter how much I may screw up daily, monthly.....I love God and God loves me...personally. TWI taught me principles...I chose the ones that worked for me and discarded the others. I didn't read the whole post so off line.....sorry.
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socks
Yes.
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T-Bone
Yeah – I bought into all the PFAL stuff. There was never any doubt while I was in TWI. Matter of fact the only doubt I wrestled with while in TWI was the self-doubt over my spiritual abilities – like operating all nine all the time or if I was really believing for something to happen.
I've done a 180 on this doubt thing. I now view doubt as being a good thing. All sorts of doubts arose after I left TWI. But rather than focusing on what was the problem within me – I turned my questioning around to analyze TWI's doctrine, the mindset they fostered and yes...even questioning the Bible. These doubts forced me to think about my faith, to unravel it, to figure out why I believed this or that, to ferret out any "invisible" assumptions I held - to get as much of my thinking process out in front.
I think doubt is an important element of our critical thinking process. It provides impetus to seek understanding…to double and triple check our thinking…And being a Christian it has been a surprising stimulus to strengthen my relationship with God and deepen my understanding of doctrine and personal application. I read an interesting book that might help some Christians who are afraid of doubt: The Sunnier Side of Doubt by Alister McGrath.
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Wanderer
Excellent comment T-bone! As I left TWI, I went back to school, where I was forced to think on my own, and as it was a technical disipline, also to troubleshoot...to examine a system (Actually any system) and determine the faulty part. Applying these skills to the TWI machine was just short of frightening. So many broken parts. where to start?
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polar bear
I believed before I got involved with the Way.
I didn't believe everything in the class. I questioned a lot of it. Especially the mathematical approach of believing and operating the manifestation.
For example the more you believe the more you recieve-not true. It contradics the word. We can't work to believe. It was like applying a formula or something.
Same thing with the manifestations. How come I never got much revalation. I SITs as much as the next dupe.
There was some good stuff, and that I am thankful for. But they sure tried to make you pay for it.
That was the problem. I still believe but don't have to pay anymore.
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