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As the song goes "We'll understand it, all by-and-by". Faith helps overcome the mysteries.

I am sorry Waysider. It took me a while to finish that post, and I had forgotten in the meantime who had sent it. I'll go and edit it now. I remember you sharing about your accident on GSC, and I know it took you a while to be well enough to come back on. Welcome back - I missed your humour.

It's horrible that you had that placed on your shoulders at such a young age. I have listened to other adults share about their lives as kids and living with a deep fear of Satan, not knowing for sure if they're saved or not, being left behind when the rapture occurs, of going to hell. If whatever a parent teaches their child about God causes them to live with such fear, it is a form of child abuse. I think this is an interesting quote from the book "The Argument Against God:" It would, though, be far better if religious doctrines and systems were not taught to people until they had attained maturity. If this were the case, how many would subscribe to a religion? Without being given a predisposition through childhood indoctrination to think there might be something in one of the many and conflicting religious beliefs on offer, the likely answer would surely be: not very many."

I'm not sure why you directed that at me, but it's OK. I don't mind. Last summer, through no fault of my own, I was injured in a catastrophic car accident. My life was changed forever. I'll never be the same person I was. Was there a still, small voice I missed? I'm not going to beat myself up wondering.

There's another version of this, as well. We listened to music and watched movies to try to spot where they were on or off. I remember, when Rocky hit the theaters, FellowLaborers had a special Saturday night outing where we went as a group to watch the movie, see if we could spot all the great spiritual truths it held. Yo, Adian! ;

Should have been put on the green card. But there it is, we experienced it, lived it, can explain it even...today anyway. Perhaps GSC is the only place regular wayfers look at outside of the way's indoctrination setup. You know, only reading collaterals, don't dare read anything else or look at tv. I'm guessing this is still happening inside twi...not sure though.

I don’t read that at all in those verses. Hebrews 11:6 - I mean is this just common logic ? If you don’t believe in a magical character how would you possibly try to please a magical character? James 1:5-6 ask God for wisdom If you don’t believe in a God why would you ever ask Him for wisdom? Again rocket science 101. And now that you don’t believe in God you are saying making basic logical statements shows an unloving God? I disagree. I read it those verses as simple logical statements with logical conclusions. What rock and what hard place is it that you find yourself in either way? Want some more rocket science 101? If you never read the Bible you won’t understand the Bible. If you read the Bible and don’t believe in a God it probably isn’t going to be that interesting and you probably won’t read it much. But a fundamentalist, hand in a glove absolutist? Yeah that’s what wrecks the Bible and any inspirational truth. And places believers in bondage. And drives them away completely. Goodbye baby. Goodbye bathwater. Adults and showers only now! I am gonna back out of this channel now and let you all continue.

That's the one. I thought that maybe San Antonio would lead people to guess heroes from the Alamo, but Teddy Roosevelt (a major, at the time) enlisted over 1500 Rough Riders in the bar of the Menger Hotel. George

Hebrews 11:6 NIV 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. I underlined the words which I believe shows that God expects believers to have absolute certainty in him and in the "word" he has given them. It doesn't matter whether we agree on what this verse is saying. The point of my post was to show the dilemma that bible-believing Christians find themselves in when it comes to God. Unless there is a verse that proves differently, there is no room for uncertainty when it comes to him. Being between a rock and a hard place happens because even when a Christian is certain that God exists and therefore earnestly seeks this all-powerful and all-loving God in a time of need, it is never certain that he will show up and reward you for the trust you placed in him. (Apparently there are legal loopholes attached to his promises.) In other words, God expects certainty from believers when all the while, he is an uncertain God. It's one of the main reason why I think this concept of god as shown in the bible was thought up by men for whatever reason. Here's to peace (an alternative for beer in my case)

No replies yet.. well I need a little rain tonight. Did you know all of these people performing are believers?

My possessions are causing suspicions but there's no proof.

Then if you wish- here is Mrs. Paul Simon on a Thursday Night. Don't thank me all at once.. heh.

For your enjoyment.. the lyrics are ambiguous. Is it- don't dream. It is over or Don't dream it is over..

How do we even know that's actually what God intended to "demand" or commend, or even expect? Hebrews 11:6 NIV 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. I don't see that demand in the verse above. James 1: 5-6 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. Okay, I see it in the James 1 reference. I wonder, however, about that. Wisdom well... I doubt that people become wise that way.

sometimes.

I think people always feel guilty when a loved one or someone close to them commits suicide - but to have to carry the additional guilt because of spiritual lies you were taught at the AC shows in my opinion how harmful religion is.

Your statement is true in the sense that no one is all-knowing, so there are many uncertainties in life. But in Christianity, this is not allowed. God expects (actually demands) believers to have absolute certainty in him and in the "word" he has given them (Heb 11:6, James 1:5-6). IMO, this puts believers between a rock and a hard place - not a healthy place to be in. Now why would an all-loving God want to do this to his children?

San Antonio..... Robin Williams played him..... how about "TEDDY ROOSEVELT"???

This event took place about 6 months after I took the foundational class. (He was an "unbeliever" I had grown up with.) I took the AC about a year later and left for FellowLaborers about 3 years after that. The "what if?" feeling haunted me for a long time.

Damn, this rocks me every time. I know you've mentioned this before, but I can't remember if your roommate was in FL with you.

Are you sure about that?

While I am all about curiosity and continuous learning, sometimes we have to accept uncertainty.

Yes although yet another label there seems to certainly be some level of restraint that a Creator has in day to day intervention. Is it a big bang then see you approach? Is it a God talks to me every day cheering me up writing patterns in my cornflakes approach? I see that as the two extremes of possibility and reality likely lies between the two. I think the battle of Armageddon is supposed to be an arena where there is no restraint to the spiritual realm but an all out battle. Until then there is a restraint on both sides. So there is no justice in this world and bad things happen to good people. Whether you believe in a spiritual realm or a Creator or not it appears the same reality is faced regardless of belief. My thoughts for the .05 worth lol.

Yes. I agree with Raf in the sense that it's better to not believe in God at all then believe in a god that is absent and does not care. On the founders, I have a book called "In God We Trust: the Religious Beliefs and Ideals of the Founding Fathers: Cousins, Norman: 9780764709562: Amazon.com: Books" that gives many quotes and illustrates that some "deists" may not be the deists some think.