That was my experience as well.....also, when I quit *demanding* and instead simply began thanking God ....... my prayers/needs/blessings were often met before the words could even be formulated.
In other words ...I don`t normally even have to ask....
My attitude of *believing* before reminds me of a petulant, demanding, spoiled brat of a child.
the law of believing if I remember it right is about wishing and magic thinking about a situation or choice to make it happen or not happen.
magic thinking will always be around , we all engage in it, if your honest.
I do think what I believe I can do or not do is often a reality.
I do not know if it is a law. i often try to do things I do not believe I can do.
try.
but if I truly do not believe I can do something come heck or high water I wont or can not do it.
I think if I dont believe I can I wont.
do I think that is all it takes?
no most adults wont survive with that mind set.
what I think folks do with the twi thing is they bring in a sense of denial.. um my big toe is hanging by a thread on my foot but I believe and vsion and (wish) it isnt so . So you can deny reality with a believing mind.
maybe sometimes that is a good choice.
but not when it makes for a life that is messing with your happiness or peace in any way. it has to be a mix that works for the individual. f
Damnit, Bliss, thanks a lot for getting that horrible Cher song stuck in my head.
no, is the short answer.
I do think there is value in being possitive many times and at times no value in being negative.
although
I do think there is value in being negative at times and no value in always being positive.
I do not believe in a your believing makes it so sort of thing, but I do think that what you believe affects you physically at times one way or the other....more because it directs your actions....not 100% of the time though. I do cringe when I here "I'm believing for this or that" from family or old friends and especially when they say "I am believing for you for this or that" as if them believing FOR ME will help me. UHG
Yeah..still believe in believing..too many instances of positive mindsets and mental images coming to pass to not believe.
I don't think we ever adopted a 'grit your teeth style of believing' but rather an 'assured knowing that good was going to come to pass often exceeding our expectations'.
Yeah..still believe in believing..too many instances of positive mindsets and mental images coming to pass to not believe.
I don't think we ever adopted a 'grit your teeth style of believing' but rather an 'assured knowing that good was going to come to pass often exceeding our expectations'.
I think the example of "What killed that little boy?" type of believing is a bunch of junk.
I do believe in believing for things to come to pass in your life. I say this because that type of believing I believe helps you focas on what you want to come to pass. So when the opportunity arises you have thought about the details to make it come to pass because you have thought it through.
I think that there are miracles that happen but I think a lot things that happen to or for us we bring on our selves.
Your post reminded me of something. I think sometimes stuff just happens, just because. I guess it's called chance.
Sometimes I hear Christians and others talk about how "everything happens for a reason." I don't believe that at all. Sometimes, ramdom things happen.
Example: A friend got rear-ended in traffic the other day. She wasn't "believing" for that to happen to her. She wasn't afraid it would happen to her. As a matter of fact, the thought didn't cross her mind.
She doesn't think the devil was out to get her either. She just happened to be in front of someone who wasn't paying attention and talking on a cell phone.
End of story. Stuff just happens, and sometimes we happen to be in its way.
And yet I have a number of newspaper clippings and I'm sure if you read the papers at home there are plenty of articles about things happening to people and they or someone else being interviewed stating that they had had a 'great fear' or a 'building fear' that this particular thing was going to happen to them.
One example was a teenage girl who had a 'vivid dream' that she was going to die in a car crash.
She went as far as making out a will, gifting her pony to someone etcc..
AllanW.... I can`t tell you how many times I have had nightmares over one of my children getting lost or dying....My spouse dying...even myself.....It has been nearly 18 years and my family still remains healthy and intact in SPITE of my dreams and worries
And yet I have a number of newspaper clippings and I'm sure if you read the papers at home there are plenty of articles about things happening to people and they or someone else being interviewed stating that they had had a 'great fear' or a 'building fear' that this particular thing was going to happen to them.
One example was a teenage girl who had a 'vivid dream' that she was going to die in a car crash.
She went as far as making out a will, gifting her pony to someone etcc..
Couple of weeks later, it happened.
Like they say..."careful what you 'wish' for ".
allan, I am not saying things don't happen because they do. Yep I can see people thinking or being scared of things to happen and express it. ie. I live in Wilmington, NC and I knew with out a shadow of a doubt there would be a hurricane to hit here. Sure as $*%# one hit. I don't believe that was my believing. I did not know for sure when and if one would hit but I knew that odds happened to be in great favor that we would be hit. Thank God insurance companies did not fail to pay me for the damage because of my believing. :)
Same thing about someone living in the north west worried about getting rocked by a earthquake.It is going to happen sooner or later.
As far as the girl getting killed in a wreck. Yep those things happen. That will stump ya.
What kind of believing does God honour ? Believing believing ?!
God honors the believing of His promises.
The small stuff.......green lights, parking places, short grocery store lines, the last valentine's teddy bear in a store, no mosquito bites on a camping trip, etc........is highly debatable.
I am not quite sure what "Believing" is.... it sounds so surface.......like wishfull thinking...(ala twi style).....
Having said THAT... I do believe that what we believe... and HOW we believe determine our reality.
It is entirely possible to not have a clue as to WHAT we are 'believing". (I know what I would like to think I was believing....!!!!)
Years ago we did the AVATAR course............ I know... another class... and this one was BIG BUCKS (for us)...but I was thrilled, shocked, amazed at some of the 'transparent beliefs' that were running my life!!!!!
Anyway--- Its been a fun subject to explore....... my own consciousness!!!
Who said...."I would never die for my beliefs.... I might be wrong"! Its engraved in the stonework oustside the Charlotte Library...... I can identify with it!!!!!!
anyway--- lots of free stuff ---- www.avataroverdrive.com
Let me be clear, I am NOT talking about the EFFORTS or works we do toward a goal or something.
I am NOT talking about "staying positive". Everyone knows that my attitude toward any given task/problem/challenge will effect/affect the outcome and those around me.
We all know that believing without WORKS IS DEAD.......right?
So how can I call you and say I had a bad day, will you "believe with me" for a better one? How ya gonna "work" that one?
This is the kinda talk and walk I am dealing with. It bothers me so.
My response as of late is "I will PRAY for you, to get the answers or peace that you need".
But I cannot "believe with, or for" you to have a good day.
This is the LINGO of INNIES today.
Example:
I am sick today (true)
I did everything I could to not get the cold my hubby/children had. And I take herbs....excersize.....
spray lysol, eat good, wash my hands....................I totally "believed" not to get it, and even prayed about it. Family innies said " I will believe with you to not get it".
I still got sick.
So I ask you, did I fail? Did my believing fail me? Where does this leave me?
Next scenario- I think this believing concept taught in TWI leaves God's will out of the picture. Not to say that he wanted me sick.................but, in light of ''achieving goals etc..."
like, a job
or moving
etc....
When is it "thy will be done" Lord, if we are all too caught up in "believing" for something we want?
I am not quite sure what "Believing" is.... it sounds so surface.......like wishfull thinking...(ala twi style).....
Having said THAT... I do believe that what we believe... and HOW we believe determine our reality.
It is entirely possible to not have a clue as to WHAT we are 'believing". (I know what I would like to think I was believing....!!!!)
Years ago we did the AVATAR course............ I know... another class... and this one was BIG BUCKS (for us)...but I was thrilled, shocked, amazed at some of the 'transparent beliefs' that were running my life!!!!!
Anyway--- Its been a fun subject to explore....... my own consciousness!!!
Who said...."I would never die for my beliefs.... I might be wrong"! Its engraved in the stonework oustside the Charlotte Library...... I can identify with it!!!!!!
anyway--- lots of free stuff ---- www.avataroverdrive.com
2life, I went to the web site. I thought there would be cool avatars <_< . Guess I just have to keep mine
"When is it "thy will be done" Lord, if we are all too caught up in "believing" for something we want?"
Exactly! Wayfers never wait for God to reveal His will. It's all about telling Him what WE want. That's believing according to twi.
What a coput IMHO. I feel a lot less condemnation when I stop trying to believe something into fruition. It's not up to me. It's up to God. Otherwise we'd all be rich. :)
I think others have expressed this, but my little variant...
It was the hardest thing in the world for me to stop believing in my believing in God and to start believing in God. To truly let Jesus become Lord. I had years and years of hard work being a "mighty Way Believer" that I had to eradicate in my life in order to do so.
Consider the Lord's Prayer (the Our Father):
Our Father Who Art in Heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name
Thy Kingdom Come
Thy Will be Done On Earth as it is in Heaven
etc.
and "Not my will but Thine be done"
Then consider the lives of the apostles and lives of the other saints. They completely, without exception, abandoned their wills to do the Will of God. And a lot of times they wouldn't know where that Will of God would lead them or what would be the outcome when they stepped out. Scourged, whipped, and eventually dead was the almost sure end for all the apostles (with literally one exception).
And they didn't care. They trusted God to such a degree that it simply didn't matter what happened in the temporal life.
But consider what was taught through TWI: name it and claim it. Get your needs and wants in parallel. Find the verse, memorize it, keep it in your mind, and then start thanking God for having provided it to you already. In other words, we (at least I) was taught to demand from God what we saw as needs by demanding He operate according to one verse or another (as often as not, a verse taken out of context).
Remember the blank checks? (What was it, 5 of them?)
"I can do all things through Christ who strengtheneth me" was often translated to mean "I can drive however I'd like and the cops won't pull me over" or some other form of stupidity -- and then, followed by condemnation while the cop was writing the ticket (Man, I must not have been walking)
and so on...
And when we practice in that way and use the Scriptures as a tool to accomplish our desires like how we were instructed via the TWI law of believing, have we made Jesus our Lord or have we made Jesus our servant? Are we giving reverence and obedience or desiring to be the object of reverence and obedience?
It was tough, though, because, as with so many things, VPW was not the originator of this theology. And there are lots of examples even out of TWI where that theology is practiced and taught. (e.g., the "Word-Faith" movement -- which makes up the bulk of the televangelists around). And so even outside of the TWI influence, we still get peppered with that theology at many turns and many clicks of the TV remote.
So do I believe in my believing? I believe in God the Father Almighty. And Jesus Christ, His only Son, Our Lord. And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life. But do I have my confidence in my believing? No.
TWI concept of believing: "Cross the street without looking and believe that you won't be hit by a car.
If you get hit, you weren't believing hard enough. Something is wrong with your believing. You are out of alignment and harmony." They didn't mention common sense in looking both ways before you crossed-that would have been disbelief.
I don't think I'm overstating this. I also think we were never taught what was appropriate to believe for. "Whatsoever you shall ask" replaced the parking lot angel.
"I believe in God the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord, etc." (Apostles creed, for those who don't know it.)
That's what I am limiting my believing to now. For the rest, I look both ways.
By the way, did you know that the word "Believing" is only used three times in the Bible? In TWI? Twenty billion and still counting.
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rascal
It is very sad....twi teaches faulty formulas , and then has to place the blame on the person when their formulas fail.
The person lives is in deep shame and condemnation for their failed believing....never suspecting that the formula is at fault.
So very sad.
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ex10
No, I don't believe in believing. And once I quit believing in believing, I believe my believing got a lot more believable.
What I mean is, once I dropped the "law of believing," my faith makes a lot more sense. To me anyway. :mellow:
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rascal
Brilliant ex 10 ! :)
That was my experience as well.....also, when I quit *demanding* and instead simply began thanking God ....... my prayers/needs/blessings were often met before the words could even be formulated.
In other words ...I don`t normally even have to ask....
My attitude of *believing* before reminds me of a petulant, demanding, spoiled brat of a child.
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pond
the law of believing if I remember it right is about wishing and magic thinking about a situation or choice to make it happen or not happen.
magic thinking will always be around , we all engage in it, if your honest.
I do think what I believe I can do or not do is often a reality.
I do not know if it is a law. i often try to do things I do not believe I can do.
try.
but if I truly do not believe I can do something come heck or high water I wont or can not do it.
I think if I dont believe I can I wont.
do I think that is all it takes?
no most adults wont survive with that mind set.
what I think folks do with the twi thing is they bring in a sense of denial.. um my big toe is hanging by a thread on my foot but I believe and vsion and (wish) it isnt so . So you can deny reality with a believing mind.
maybe sometimes that is a good choice.
but not when it makes for a life that is messing with your happiness or peace in any way. it has to be a mix that works for the individual. f
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oldiesman
I still believe in believing, both positive and negative.
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lindyhopper
Damnit, Bliss, thanks a lot for getting that horrible Cher song stuck in my head.
no, is the short answer.
I do think there is value in being possitive many times and at times no value in being negative.
although
I do think there is value in being negative at times and no value in always being positive.
I do not believe in a your believing makes it so sort of thing, but I do think that what you believe affects you physically at times one way or the other....more because it directs your actions....not 100% of the time though. I do cringe when I here "I'm believing for this or that" from family or old friends and especially when they say "I am believing for you for this or that" as if them believing FOR ME will help me. UHG
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justloafing
Exactly Pond. I really wonder how many people had their lives ruined because of twi's doctrine?
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J0nny Ling0
Q.) Do I still believe in believing?
A.) Yes.
Why? Because Jesus said it is the thing to do, and I believe in Jesus. I know that I can trust Jesus. :)
"And all things whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." Matt 21:22
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allan w.
Yeah..still believe in believing..too many instances of positive mindsets and mental images coming to pass to not believe.
I don't think we ever adopted a 'grit your teeth style of believing' but rather an 'assured knowing that good was going to come to pass often exceeding our expectations'.
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Raf
I do not believe in believing.
I believe in God.
He honors believing.
That, I believe.
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allan w.
What kind of believing does God honour ? Believing believing ?!
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justloafing
I think the example of "What killed that little boy?" type of believing is a bunch of junk.
I do believe in believing for things to come to pass in your life. I say this because that type of believing I believe helps you focas on what you want to come to pass. So when the opportunity arises you have thought about the details to make it come to pass because you have thought it through.
I think that there are miracles that happen but I think a lot things that happen to or for us we bring on our selves.
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Belle
THAT, I can believe! :D
TWI believing? Hogwash and B.S.
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ex10
Justloafing
Your post reminded me of something. I think sometimes stuff just happens, just because. I guess it's called chance.
Sometimes I hear Christians and others talk about how "everything happens for a reason." I don't believe that at all. Sometimes, ramdom things happen.
Example: A friend got rear-ended in traffic the other day. She wasn't "believing" for that to happen to her. She wasn't afraid it would happen to her. As a matter of fact, the thought didn't cross her mind.
She doesn't think the devil was out to get her either. She just happened to be in front of someone who wasn't paying attention and talking on a cell phone.
End of story. Stuff just happens, and sometimes we happen to be in its way.
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allan w.
And yet I have a number of newspaper clippings and I'm sure if you read the papers at home there are plenty of articles about things happening to people and they or someone else being interviewed stating that they had had a 'great fear' or a 'building fear' that this particular thing was going to happen to them.
One example was a teenage girl who had a 'vivid dream' that she was going to die in a car crash.
She went as far as making out a will, gifting her pony to someone etcc..
Couple of weeks later, it happened.
Like they say..."careful what you 'wish' for ".
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rascal
AllanW.... I can`t tell you how many times I have had nightmares over one of my children getting lost or dying....My spouse dying...even myself.....It has been nearly 18 years and my family still remains healthy and intact in SPITE of my dreams and worries
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justloafing
allan, I am not saying things don't happen because they do. Yep I can see people thinking or being scared of things to happen and express it. ie. I live in Wilmington, NC and I knew with out a shadow of a doubt there would be a hurricane to hit here. Sure as $*%# one hit. I don't believe that was my believing. I did not know for sure when and if one would hit but I knew that odds happened to be in great favor that we would be hit. Thank God insurance companies did not fail to pay me for the damage because of my believing. :)
Same thing about someone living in the north west worried about getting rocked by a earthquake.It is going to happen sooner or later.
As far as the girl getting killed in a wreck. Yep those things happen. That will stump ya.
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skyrider
God honors the believing of His promises.
The small stuff.......green lights, parking places, short grocery store lines, the last valentine's teddy bear in a store, no mosquito bites on a camping trip, etc........is highly debatable.
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2life
I am not quite sure what "Believing" is.... it sounds so surface.......like wishfull thinking...(ala twi style).....
Having said THAT... I do believe that what we believe... and HOW we believe determine our reality.
It is entirely possible to not have a clue as to WHAT we are 'believing". (I know what I would like to think I was believing....!!!!)
Years ago we did the AVATAR course............ I know... another class... and this one was BIG BUCKS (for us)...but I was thrilled, shocked, amazed at some of the 'transparent beliefs' that were running my life!!!!!
Anyway--- Its been a fun subject to explore....... my own consciousness!!!
Who said...."I would never die for my beliefs.... I might be wrong"! Its engraved in the stonework oustside the Charlotte Library...... I can identify with it!!!!!!
anyway--- lots of free stuff ---- www.avataroverdrive.com
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bliss
Let me be clear, I am NOT talking about the EFFORTS or works we do toward a goal or something.
I am NOT talking about "staying positive". Everyone knows that my attitude toward any given task/problem/challenge will effect/affect the outcome and those around me.
We all know that believing without WORKS IS DEAD.......right?
So how can I call you and say I had a bad day, will you "believe with me" for a better one? How ya gonna "work" that one?
This is the kinda talk and walk I am dealing with. It bothers me so.
My response as of late is "I will PRAY for you, to get the answers or peace that you need".
But I cannot "believe with, or for" you to have a good day.
This is the LINGO of INNIES today.
Example:
I am sick today
(true)
I did everything I could to not get the cold my hubby/children had. And I take herbs....excersize.....
spray lysol, eat good, wash my hands....................I totally "believed" not to get it, and even prayed about it. Family innies said " I will believe with you to not get it".
I still got sick.
So I ask you, did I fail? Did my believing fail me? Where does this leave me?
Next scenario- I think this believing concept taught in TWI leaves God's will out of the picture. Not to say that he wanted me sick.................but, in light of ''achieving goals etc..."
like, a job
or moving
etc....
When is it "thy will be done" Lord, if we are all too caught up in "believing" for something we want?
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justloafing
2life, I went to the web site. I thought there would be cool avatars <_< . Guess I just have to keep mine
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Nottawayfer
Quote by Bliss:
"When is it "thy will be done" Lord, if we are all too caught up in "believing" for something we want?"
Exactly! Wayfers never wait for God to reveal His will. It's all about telling Him what WE want. That's believing according to twi.
What a coput IMHO. I feel a lot less condemnation when I stop trying to believe something into fruition. It's not up to me. It's up to God. Otherwise we'd all be rich. :)
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markomalley
I think others have expressed this, but my little variant...
It was the hardest thing in the world for me to stop believing in my believing in God and to start believing in God. To truly let Jesus become Lord. I had years and years of hard work being a "mighty Way Believer" that I had to eradicate in my life in order to do so.
Consider the Lord's Prayer (the Our Father):
Our Father Who Art in Heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name
Thy Kingdom Come
Thy Will be Done On Earth as it is in Heaven
etc.
and "Not my will but Thine be done"
Then consider the lives of the apostles and lives of the other saints. They completely, without exception, abandoned their wills to do the Will of God. And a lot of times they wouldn't know where that Will of God would lead them or what would be the outcome when they stepped out. Scourged, whipped, and eventually dead was the almost sure end for all the apostles (with literally one exception).
And they didn't care. They trusted God to such a degree that it simply didn't matter what happened in the temporal life.
But consider what was taught through TWI: name it and claim it. Get your needs and wants in parallel. Find the verse, memorize it, keep it in your mind, and then start thanking God for having provided it to you already. In other words, we (at least I) was taught to demand from God what we saw as needs by demanding He operate according to one verse or another (as often as not, a verse taken out of context).
Remember the blank checks? (What was it, 5 of them?)
"I can do all things through Christ who strengtheneth me" was often translated to mean "I can drive however I'd like and the cops won't pull me over" or some other form of stupidity -- and then, followed by condemnation while the cop was writing the ticket (Man, I must not have been walking)
and so on...
And when we practice in that way and use the Scriptures as a tool to accomplish our desires like how we were instructed via the TWI law of believing, have we made Jesus our Lord or have we made Jesus our servant? Are we giving reverence and obedience or desiring to be the object of reverence and obedience?
It was tough, though, because, as with so many things, VPW was not the originator of this theology. And there are lots of examples even out of TWI where that theology is practiced and taught. (e.g., the "Word-Faith" movement -- which makes up the bulk of the televangelists around). And so even outside of the TWI influence, we still get peppered with that theology at many turns and many clicks of the TV remote.
So do I believe in my believing? I believe in God the Father Almighty. And Jesus Christ, His only Son, Our Lord. And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life. But do I have my confidence in my believing? No.
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topoftheworld
TWI concept of believing: "Cross the street without looking and believe that you won't be hit by a car.
If you get hit, you weren't believing hard enough. Something is wrong with your believing. You are out of alignment and harmony." They didn't mention common sense in looking both ways before you crossed-that would have been disbelief.
I don't think I'm overstating this. I also think we were never taught what was appropriate to believe for. "Whatsoever you shall ask" replaced the parking lot angel.
"I believe in God the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord, etc." (Apostles creed, for those who don't know it.)
That's what I am limiting my believing to now. For the rest, I look both ways.
By the way, did you know that the word "Believing" is only used three times in the Bible? In TWI? Twenty billion and still counting.
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