Leaderboard

[BTW, if you come here talking AT people, declaring you're right by fiat and anyone who disagrees with you is arguing with God, you won't get anywhere with anyone. We average one of those about every six months, and they all either storm off indignant or begin posting abusively and get kicked out for breaking the rules. (The rules are lenient and forgiving, but they exist.) It is rare when one of them actually stops to listen and dialogue with the rest of us, and realizes they can learn something. The posters here represent a number of different positions and approaches. You can learn from different approaches at the same time, all without following "the party line" because there is none, here. There's a lot to be gained for SLOWING DOWN, and really interacting with everyone else instead of talking AT them. Many have benefited from it in the past, myself included. The choice is yours.]

Dude, do you think you get points from God for being "right" about anything? Are you, by any chance, trying to make a case for joining a particular religious denomination (7th Day Adventists)? How much have you considered, in your study of scriptures, what God wants YOU to do (other than "holding forth" your interpretation of what's the right way to understand the Bible)? Btw, I don't need your answers, all three questions are rhetorical.

Tone deaf. Waxit, there's a HUGE difference between discussion (these are discussion forums) and preaching AT people. If you want to get serious about the Great Commission (ministry of reconciliation), you may want to do some research and reflection on the subject of emotional maturity. It is NOT emotionally mature to start off what might be intended to be an apology for having insulted someone by criticizing that person for wrongly getting offended in the first place. "Holding forth" the Word isn't something you necessarily get credit for doing if you act like you're in a vacuum. You're (at least in theory) conversing with real, live, humans. People with feelings and attitudes. If you're going to reach them, you'll have to be able to recognize them as such and actually love them. That just might entail empathizing with them. And that's even IF you have the correct take on what God intends to mean in and by the particular words you think you're holding forth. Just a thought or two.

Hi Waxit, You’ll probably just ignore this – but I’ll say it anyway for the benefit of other readers…My impression thus far on this thread is that when there has been some disagreement about your viewpoint – you seem to sidestep the issue that others focus on and dismiss the relevancy and their reasoning of the biblical text that they bring up. Just an observation here, your go-to means of defending your position lacks specificity and basically amounts to simply suggesting it’s based upon “biblical principles”, “the rightly-divided Word of truth” or the idea that not everything wierwille taught/plagiarized is rubbish – and now more recently you were recommending to someone that they read “God’s Plan for Mankind” – it seems to me your position is untenable. Your responses are often just cliches...And if indeed this book “God’s Plan for Mankind” that you refer to is the same one I had given a link to in my previous post ( - and again here is link ) - I am tempted to say you might have jumped out of the frying pan into the fire. In a previous post I gave a brief analysis of the 2 articles of "God's Plan for Mankind" on the Sabbath noting the author’s mangled use of Scripture and definitions…which brings to mind a book I’d like to recommend Scripture Twisting: 20 Ways the Cults Misread the Bible by James W. Sire . Some of the ideas in the book will be familiar to folks who know stuff about logical fallacies .I’m not saying the author of "God’s Plan for Mankind" is a cult leader – but Sire’s book is helpful when determining if someone is (even unintentionally) distorting what the Bible actually says. While Jesus Christ as well as others in the Bible have warned of deceivers – perhaps it’s just as important to be aware of the possibility that we may even deceive ourselves: “The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!" …Matthew 6:22, 23 NASB That passage may very well refer to self-deception...If my idea of what is true - is actually wrong – but I think that it’s spiritual enlightenment – how great is that darkness! Perhaps a really effective cult leader is one who can convince followers that they’ve "seen the light" . Others who have posted on this thread (and may differ from your angle) have put a lot of thought and hard work that reflects an intense personal and prayerful study of the Bible. Unless you’re just proselytizing to get others to read this guy’s book you might try being a bit more upfront and honest on this thread and offer more substance from your own personal "homework"…just a thought… Love and peace T-Bone

Okay, no answer then. Not interested in lengthy essays by other people; you have a voice. Use your own words. Be succinct, if you care to respond. Over and out. Bye.

Both may be true accounts of what wierwille actually said. I don’t think it’s a matter of conflation on wierwille’s part – where he had combined the two ideas. Maybe in a deluded mind that’s usually inclined towards plagiarism the source of the idea for The Way Tree simply “evolved” ... ...and the more I think about it, the imagery of the way tree may very well be the moot point in all this...as far as the structure - how the whole organization was arranged to supposedly function "properly", it does seem to emulate the AA somewhat - although I think TWI's HQ is far more overreaching in authority and control (when compared to the 12 steps of AA ) ....and as far as describing the function of TWI, it's more along the lines of multi-level marketing " ...where the revenue of the MLM company is derived from a non-salaried workforce selling the company's products/services."