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It's not a matter of looking for them to find them. It's a matter of the flaws literally leaping off the page for anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear.

This isn't about who was and who wasn't in the Corps, it's about how VPW laced his doctrinal stew with ingredients culled from the occult. That story about a mother's fear being responsible for her little boy's death? Straight out of the occult. The red drapes and camera analogy? Occult. "What you're confessing is what you're possessing."? Yep... occult. This isn't complicated. It's about as straightforward as you can get. And where will you find evidence of this stuff? Well, what do you know, right there in the collaterals. Oh, but wait a minute, I thought the collaterals were divinely inspired. Gimme a break.

Well, at least that lady got the red drapes she wanted. So, there's that.

Nice work. It is amazing when you go back over the epistles without waybrain certain things do stand out. I feel in my heart truths in the HS field like talents and abilities being enhanced as opposed to an iron man suit approach. I think the purpose of the iron man suit was to set VP up like Tony Stark the billionaire hero who saved the world and operated all 5 “gift ministries”. But don’t get me started on that bullshonta. Like everything else it is a facade interpretation of what God really wants for the functioning of the body of Christ.

Thx for delving into the details. I had no idea about the occult connection with so many of the names we would hear quoted by VP. I did not come from this background so appreciate the detailed knowledge.

Okay but the 10 page first post is not an action that supports your stated intent here. From my perspective you have it twisted up about the Corps program. There were some extreme zealots there. But mostly it was a program where we studied the collaterals half the day and worked a job the other half. There were some classes but not many. But of course since you weren’t there you think it’s the training part that is the issue. The irony is most everyone that went through the program pretty much has done what you think is the answer - focus on the collaterals. From my perspective there is a lot less honest research work done reflected in the collaterals than virtually anything else you’ve read. They are sermon notes picked over a hundred times to ensure that there is a foolish consistency like Emerson writes is the hobgoblin of little minds.

And you think this is alright? Do you not see how awful this is? There is no good stuff to be had from the devil. So, he knew and admitted he was pulling from the doctrines of devils and this is your idol? You prefer this idiot to the Lord Jesus Christ? No wonder Christ is absent to you. This entire Seinfeld-ish dialog is nothing more than a lame attempt to straw man your way out of this dllemma. It was the nazi-way corps...not it was...insert bullshonta reason here...deal with the fact that your idol was a false prophet who knowingly intermixed the occult into Christianity. Prove to me I am wrong. Dont you understand how egregious this sort of thing is to the Lord Jesus Christ? It's blasphemy on steroids! These doctrines cause REAL damage in the lives of those that believe the lies...but your fine with that. My conscience is clear in this matter.

No I didn't get that right, I was dead a$$ wrong and that's the point of me saying that I RATIONALIZED devilish doctrines intermixed into vicotor paul wierwille's teachings - I had to lie to myself. And you know what else? Once I fully realized how awful this garbage really is I repented - yes: I literally got on my knees and asked God for forgiveness. I was devestated because not only did I believe a lie, I taught others the same lies and that makes a person the LEAST in the Kingdom of my Lord! I asked for forgiveness and am making amends. Not that I need to add anything to what Christ accomplished, but Im posting this information here so others don't make the same mistakes. Mike - is your conscience seared with a hot iron? Do you feel anything when someone tells you that victor paul wierwille was doing the devils job for him? I know you feel a healthy sense of agitation but that's not your conscience that's cognitive dissonance. By your own words you admit you would rather believe a lie than believe the truth, even when its dead in front of your face. Tell me mike, why can't you discuss the actual material I posted? Trolling tactics? Or....Im taking a firm bet that the truth is extremely uncomfortable for you. The truth that makes you a gigantic hypocrit. You readily jump on GSC and critisscize, condemn, and complain about any Christian group besides the fake-Christian group you adhere. I.E.: Those awful trinitarians that are so deceived (loosely paraphrasing your words), yet they don't unknowingly follow and teach the occult in Christs name, yet, your father in the word conscisously included occultism (doctrines that have a person glorifying the devil 's doctrines in Christ's name) into his theology and you readily accept it and then rationalze it all away. You grab onto one sentence where I readily admit I was wrong and deceived and tell me I was right. Either deal with the material or quit all your bullshonta rationalizing. Wierwille was a false prophet. Deal with the evidence. Line by line. Show me with evidence - both Biblical and otherwise, where I am wrong. BTW - you do realize that if wierwille really walked for God the way he said he did God would have told him that he was mixing occultism into his package of garbage that had been known and understood in spades since the first century, and well before. That makes hims stupid. You try to say how stupid I am on other threads when I raise legitimate challenges to the garbage you interject, yet stupid lil ole me can easily identify occultic error in wierwilles trash teachings. He gets no respect from me cause he was a liar and a dullard, or a liar who INTENTIONALLY misled for his own greedy, base, gain. Yet - you are so intelligent you are asked to sit in with a group of neuroscientists for several years discussing deep intellectual matters...and yet you can't accept the plain truth and stumble at the most elementary Christian principles: 2 Corinthians 6:15: And what concord hath Christ with Belial? This is a BS trolling tactic. First you come up with a multi-paragraph post of rationalizing bullshonta, then you try to forbid anyone from discussing the bullshonta you posted that never actually dicusses any points I posted on topic: So - take a healthy dose of your own advice and stay on topic. Discuss the post I made. Dont talk around the post...cmon man...even your idol wierwille got tired of reading around the word and tossed all of his imaginary 3000 book library in the city dump...lmao...patent bullshonta.

107. A. wierwille is self-appointed distributor of the abilities of the Holy Spirit. Part A: why does exercising a God-given ability have to be so complicated? Excerpts from the authorized book on TWI, titled “The Way Living in Love” (by Elena S. Whiteside, co 1972, American Christian Press, Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 72-89132), Whiteside is interviewing wierwille, pages 195ff: I begin asking Doctor questions, “But what was the event that happened before you led Amil Schaffner into receiving the holy spirit? What happened?” “I guess that day was the second most important event in my life – after the day that God spoke to me in that old dentist’s office in Payne – the day I received into manifestation the holy spirit and spoke in tongues. I had been searching for years for more understanding of the Word, of the power we have in Christ Jesus. I’d tried all kinds of denominations, all kinds of trips. I’d gone to Pentecostal groups, to all kinds. I can’t remember them all.” “I had worked all 385 verses in the Bible that spoke of the Holy Spirit. I knew very verse from memory. I had seen in the book of Acts how they spoke in tongues, and I’d gone to every group I’d heard of that I thought might give me more light on it”… …“ I’d asked the greatest minds, theologians, in the country about receiving the holy spirit. No one could help me. I just knew that all I was seeing was flesh, not spirit.”… … ”…was the winter of 1951. I flew to Tulsa, checked into the hotel, and went over to where the meeting was that night. It was a big rally. I met someone, told him my need, and he got all excited. He said he’d introduce me to some great men. They’d lay hands on me and lead me into tongues.” “So before the meeting they got together, nine great men, in one room. They started praying, then three or four laid hands on me, and finally one of them said, ‘Speak another language.’ So, I spoke in Greek. I quoted the first chapter of John. Well, they started jumping up and down. They thought it was great. They didn’t know Greek. They said I had received and told me to speak another language.” “So I did. I spoke in Hebrew – quoted from Genesis, and they just got all excited, congratulating themselves about it.” “But in my heart, I knew I wasn’t speaking in tongues. You see, they’d just told me to speak in another language.; they never taught me or showed me the accuracy of the Word on this. They said ‘another language’ and I spoke another language.” “At the big meeting that night one of the men stood up and told the two to three thousand that the had just led an Evangelical and Reformed minister from Van Wert into tongues. He was on an ego trip about it, but I was just sick of the whole thing. Sick of the lying. I knew it was a lie. I was ready to go home.” “…there was a blizzard in Tulsa…The city was snowbound. I just couldn’t get out!” …”The next morning, I still hadn’t left town. I went to breakfast at the hotel…a woman came over to me, and said, ‘I think God sent a man here to meet your need. Meet me at 9 a.m.’ I thought, ‘Women never tell the truth.’ But then I reconsidered, since I was stuck in town anyway. So I decided to meet her.” “I got to the place she said at 9a.m. and there she was. She introduced me to a man named J.E. Stiles. He’d come in from the West Coast. A few days before, God had told him to go to Tulsa to minister the holy spirit to one man. We talked for a few minutes, and he suggested we go into the rally to hear Oral Roberts and then meet for lunch.” “So that’s what we did. At lunchtime Stiles came in with his wife and the pianist. I just remember thinking to myself, ‘There aren’t going to be any women around when I get the holy spirit.’ I was just watching and waiting. Lunch was kind of light talk – we talked about Oral Roberts, the Holy Spirit, lots of stuff. When we were done, I pecked up the check, and then Stiles turned to his wife and said, ‘Honey, I’m going with VP.’ She said something to him like, ‘How long will you be?’ And he said, ‘That’s none of your business.’ That was it, my opinion of him as a man went up 99 percent. His stature increased in my eyes, just from the way he handled her.” “We left the women and went up to my room. Stiles began to teach me from Acts 2:1-4, and many other verses…We worked till 3 p.m. Finally, I believed and spoke in tongues. I didn’t know the language. It was like a burning light…” “You see, learning is a process. You don’t learn overnight. The holy spirit field – that’s the field God raised me up for. There’s not a question that cannot be answered biblically. And there’s no one I can’t lead into speaking in tongues if they are Christian and want to do it." End of excerpts ~ ~ ~ ~ I leave it to Grease Spotters to consider the very revealing words of a con artist. It’s possible one can have such delusions of grandeur that they believe their mission is not a con – but to help people. I am not challenging his motivation or intent. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. People may want to do the right thing and follow what they think is the right way to do something. But that doesn’t mean what they’re doing is right. I believe in a lot of religions – and cults - people are not always aware of their sin nature and believe if they do this “good thing”, there is a reward waiting for them. There are a few things in those excerpts that are very telling about wierwille. In his narrative he comes across as misogynistic – considering the culture and times that seems about par. And I think that attitude permeated his ministry for a long time – I can’t speak for the TWI-mindset after I left in ’86. Also, my suspicion is drawn to wierwille knowing how to fake tongues. He spoke Greek and Hebrew (from PFAL material I know that biblical languages were not his long suit ). He doesn’t say who these men were or what their qualifications were who led him to “speak another language” but if they were leaders at this rally – I would assume they were pastors and/or theologians familiar with the biblical languages and would have recognized wierwille quoting from Genesis and John – or even to a serious Bible student like myself – I would have picked up on those very familiar passages since I’ve done a number of studies with an interlinear text and lexicons. Another thing that stuck out to me was wierwille’s comment “You don’t learn overnight.” That’s true – but in reference to the abilities that the Holy Spirit distributes – nothing needs to be taught. I Corinthians 12, 13 & 14 indicate it’s the Holy Spirit who does the distributing and empowering. Besides that – some other big points of those chapters are that Christians are to do all with the proper attitude and it should be orderly with a view to the benefit of the body of believers in that local church. And the last paragraph of excerpts exemplifies what a know-it-all cult-leader sounds like. wierwille said “that’s the field God raised me up for. There’s not a question that cannot be answered biblically. And there’s no one I can’t lead into speaking in tongues if they are Christian and want to do it.” So, why does exercising a God-given ability have to be so complicated? Contrary to what wierwille taught - it’s not! In part B I’ll get into the simplicity of the Holy Spirit’s way. end of part A ~ ~ ~ ~

Big deal if they have the book of Mormon - we have the PFAL book - and it's orange!!!!

And that's only if you pay at least 10% or more of your income....freedom is not free....