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Right, but he welcomed all comments. Taoists and Buddhists are atheists. Beleef is not part of these traditions as I understand them.

I submit that part of what you're missing with this excellent, respectful question actually seeking an honest response without a hint of being judgmental or dismissive is that the process is not an immediate or instantaneous one. Personal experience of the miraculous. Honestly, I think we call things miracles when they're not. We call our intuition Revelation when it's not. Most of the "personal experiences with the miraculous" I had easily and neatly fall into the category of "you know, coincidence explains that just as easily as divine intervention." A few fall into the "you know the other person involved was lying, right?" Some of it was "you made that up" and "there is a mountain of evidence contradicting that claim and zero evidence supporting it." What was left, for me, are stories OTHER people told. And I honestly respect their integrity. But I don't believe there was anything supernatural at work. No matter how cold it was (who has ears to hear). I remember thinking at ROA 89 that LCM had bugged the RV we had rented for the week, because there he was on stage every night addressing something we were discussing in private hours earlier. He must have bugged us! And, admittedly, he easily could have. BUT: isn't the more likely explanation that hundreds of people, maybe even thousands, at ROA 1989 were all talking about and thinking about the same controversy that had just decimated the ministry? Did he really need to bug a bunch of nobodies from New York (and Texas) to find out what our complaints and arguments were? A few months back, Mike posted a thread trying to explain the "paucity" of miracles. It was a stunning admission right there in the title of the thread. Folks had to argue whether the evidence really supported a "paucity" of miracles. I just sat there thinking, "finally, someone admits it." ... On a semi-related front, if ANYONE on GSC has cause to think I am biased against his religious beliefs, it's got to be Mike. The utter contempt I had for him as a human being cannot be overstated. I often joke that half of GSC's rules were developed to combat the ways I talked to and about Mike. My personal favorite is we can no longer distort the person's screen name for comedic effect. That's because I used to call him "Smikeol," like he was Gollum from Lord of the Rings protecting his precious PFAL. Ah, the good old days. One thing I have noticed about Mike though: he follows the GSC rules. He may annoy [some of] us [more than others], but he knows the difference between arguing his position and arguing against people. I respect that. And my comments on his thread would have absolutely derailed the conversation you all were having in Doctrinal (which is to say, "of course there's a paucity of miracles; there's no God to perform them!') So I had to start a parallel thread here in the atheist subforum OUT OF RESPECT FOR THE CHRISTIANS WHO HAD EVERY RIGHT TO DISCUSS THEIR FAITH WITHOUT MY INTERFERENCE. And I bring it up now because Oldiesman, your question was the best example I've seen in a long time of conducting a respectful inquiry despite holding a [presumably] polar opposite point of view from the people of whom you are inquiring. So thank you for that.

Stephen Hawking had ALS for 55 years. Augie Nieto had it for 18. The average life expectancy after diagnosis is two to 5 years. My sister lived four years and 11 months after diagnosis. So Hawking, the atheist, outlives the majority of Christians praying for a miracle by a factor of anywhere between three and 11, if we're being charitable. I know, that's a MEAN thing to say. And no one wants to hear it. But it also unfairly singles out one person's experience and tries to make an example of it. The MUCH more fair thing to do is recognize that regardless of faith, an ALS diagnosis is more often than not a death sentence with an execution date within two to five years. It doesn't care what you believe or how much "faith" you put in science. It's there to kill you, period. But what about the exceptions? They're exceptions. Statistics tells you to expect them. My sister's ALS was not God's fault. Stephen Hawking's ALS was not God's way of giving a prominent atheist as much time as divinely possible to change his mind and see the light. How do I know this? Because I literally just made that up! This idea of clinging to the possible as likely just because it hasn't been ruled out is not an honest approach to the facts. I suspect the reason some Christians think atheists are angry at God is that they recognize, if they were in our shoes, that they would be angry at Him (too, from their perspective). And I could see where that would make sense. Dozens of GSers prayed for my sister and contributed to ALS research on her behalf (THANK YOU ALL AGAIN FOR THAT). Did God just not give a flip? Too busy keeping the evangelical atheist scientist alive to give a sick nobody one or two more years of a quality life before she watches herself deteriorate painfully with the knowledge that eventually she will basically drown in her own saliva? Hell, I would be mad at Him too! But it's not his fault for the same reason it's not Allah's fault it's not Zeus' fault it's not Odin's fault it's not Horus' fault it's not Joe Pesci's fault. None of those guys exist. Well, maybe the last guy, but I'm half convinced he's a fictional character being played publicly by an amazing actor. My son has autism because he was born with a brain that misfires in the area of communication. Happens to a lot of people. Happened to my kid. Would have happened if I never believed in God. Would have happened if I were the right reverend so-and-so. It does.not.care.about.my.religious.beliefs. That's kind of the sad part about realizing you're atheist. You can't pray for people anymore, and let me tell you, that hurts. Because we WANT to do SOMETHING. "I'll pray for you." It sounds like something. And to the person praying, it is. But as it's written in James, if I'm hungry, and you say "I'll pray for you," um. Thanks, but you haven't flipping fed me. I think that's in James. I give a lot more as an atheist. Not to churches, but to real causes. Like clean water. Medical research. Feeding programs. Journalism associations. First Amendment defenders. I could pray for them, but that would not pay a single bill. I foster kids. I could pray for them, but that wouldn't rescue them from an abusive home, comfort them when they're having nightmares. Feed them. Play with them. Teach them. Clothe them. Take them to their first baseball game or swimming pool. People need to do that.

Great post Raf about a lot of things. This abridged copy of it is to say thanks a lot for your support (see underlined parts). The video clip above was part of another one called My Top 7 Favorite Hitchslaps. I thought that name was very apropos for what he does in this one. He's so good at not mincing words. I love it. Thanks for sharing it. Your Jonah adaptation was precious. Unfortunate though that your main character drank the Koolaid. You wrote, "As unbelievers, we are not criticizing God in this story, because we are not asked to identify with him." I couldn't get your point at first because even as an unbeliever, I'm thinking h*ll yes, God deserves to be criticized big time. Then I'm pretty sure I got it - it was up to Abraham to tell God what He could do with his insane command. That would make him someone in this story worthy of emulating.

*exasperated sigh* I should remind everyone that those gloves, shrunken by a thorough saturation in blood, merely appeared not to fit. In fact, Nicole gifted those gloves to OJ and he wore them the night he slaughtered her and Ron Goldman. Pillai and victor hope you won’t read Leviticus 1, but the writer of Judges and his character Jephthah surely had read it. They knew exactly what a burnt offering meant. Jephthah may have hoped and beleeeved for a goat to bolt out of his front door to meet him, but no, it was his daughter! What luck! Jephthah made a vow and a gamble. A reckless gamble. If Jephthah wanted to purchase that military victory by committing his virgin daughter’s life to service in the temple, he would have said so, but he didn’t. He gambled and he lost. As the lesson of Isaac is about commitment, intention and obedience, the lesson of Jephthah is about honoring one’s vow to God - keeping one’s end of the bargain, integrity of the deal, and honoring bets made, no matter how horrific the cost.

As a follower of Hinduism.