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In the Beginning was the Ministry and the Ministry was with God, and the Ministry was God....

Wierwille,on more than one occasion would always say,What has the word cost you?Then he would rant on,either his eye,his not being a big shot,or how hard he spent being a great man of god.His point made us feel like we had not given enough,when in truth we gave everything time money youth job,family,for the "previlege" to hear the "truth".When in fact it really was cult indoctrination,give all to the ministry(early on it was the "word" rather than the ministry). I saw it early on,yet like most of us got sucked in,My aunt,god bless her,said "they really got to you."Guilt was a way of life in the way,You always pay a price was an other one,shi@ happens,instead,the way got you to question every action,every motion,where did I blow it?Folks it does not happen that way. Think for yourself,be yourself,we are not the ever ready bunny,always on the go,Push yourself was another one,I(wierwille)am always on the go,I can get by with 2,3 hours a sleep,I just loshanta and boom,I am so spiritual,I am energized.The supreme guilt?Uncle howard allen said "he gave his life for you".Uh howard it was Jesus and not vic.

Well, when I told the Mosquedas & Georges, myself & my family were 'checking out' of Indiana Campus, I was threatened with being thrown out of the campus third floor window if I opened my mouth to anyone as to 'why' we were leaving.I guess that could have been a horrible start to my departure btw...J Y Del..got on the phone & said twi would pay our airfares back to N.Z. if...you guessed it...we kept quiet about things going on

in that context your comment makes more sense. OldSkool pointed out earlier in the thread that the bible didn't cost anything. the general point here is that that catch phrase that vpw and lcm so freely used is Wayspeak. it's a statement designed to trigger guilt and extract more money and time from twi followers no matter what the personal price they end up paying. the fact that they asked the question at all proves they were looking at the wrong thing, you are very right about that. I think it also set up an atmosphere of competitiveness in the "household" to be more spiritual by giving more. most of us did it because we wanted to do the right thing, but some people did it for the appearance. my ex was one of those. he wanted to give the ultimate and go corps, he insisted on giving 15% minimum in ABS, but he couldn't live the most basic biblical principles at home. the word, the real word, shouldn't have cost anything. when I said the word cost some of us a great deal and I'm still paying, a lot of people are still paying, and for some of us it cost everything, my context was the intent infused in the Wayspeak phrase "what has the word cost you?"

I think I have been out 6 or 7 years now.I have told many people that since leaving I finally feel like I am having the enjoyable life God intended people to have,my life has honestly never been better,health,relationships,finances,job,spiritually,everything every aspect of life is awesome! I think we are all examples of "God restoring the years the locust has eaten."

Wierwille was poor as a teacher. He was a charlatan, a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretence or deception. He made (usually) showy pretenses to knowledge or ability. He was a fraud. All that being said, his idiocy doesn't negate God. man can study things to his hearts content and not truly understand something, that's been shown time and time again. Someone was using the example of The Elephant and the Blind Men, which is a very good example,... for "now we know in part". But one quack is not good reason to chuck God. Neither is a multidude of Quacks.

Java Jane, I agree with that. Scientific studies have shown that when people SIT a certain portion of the brain kind of shuts off. Maybe its something that calms and lets an idea or thought from God come through all of our static. Linguistics researchers have also studied glossilalia(sic) as they call it. They have shown that it is not a language, as language is defined. No syntax, and other things its missing (I forget what right now). So, we know its not a "real" language. So, that's why I believe the Acts apostles did speak in another tongue, or as the other poster said, the people heard their language as the Apostles were speaking - that is also miraculous in itself. But, I would almost discount that, because throughout history, even to modern day, people have heard their language spoken by someone SITing - not just in a TWI setting, but missionaries, etc. But, I also note that many people were born again as children and automatically SIT'ed. It was just a "natural" thing to do, and many of us now, still spontaneously do it - such as I do if I'm particularly happy or excited about something - or just plain blessed :) So, I think there may be something to it, but who knows what - a calming agent, a way of letting God's thoughts come through - who knows, as I said - I don't know what it is.

I'm not sure how to take some of the comments regarding my post. As I said it was my first thought regarding the post topic. My second statment was meant to point out that if someone is asking you what the word costs you, they are looking at the wrong thing. This way of thinking is an indication of a ministry that is rapidly heading towards ruliing by law and guilt... which is exactly the direction TWI went. Yes, I was a fortunate one. Becoming involved in the ministry saved my life in the 70's, (notice I didn't say the ministry saved it) I was gone after three years. And I'm very thankful for that or I might have ended up a bigger a**h*** than I am now. I can say, when I lost site of the word and made the ministry my god that it cost me my first marriage. But really that was the TWI, which I had let replace the word, it wasn't the word that cost me the marriage. I can also say that TWI encouraged and seduced me into replacing the word and God with their teachings and leadership. That cost me my walk with God for a very long, long time.

If so, I hope it is far more encompassing.. than some little movement in California, or New York..

"there's a lion in the street!"------Proverbs 22:13

The only thing I thought of when I say this topic was..The word didn't cost me anything, but it cost God his son. Honestly if you are looking at your walk with God in terms of cost, you're look at the wrong thing.

If they still need help with that witnessing card, maybe I can give a hand... 1.Frustrated making decisions for yourself? 2.Want to feel superior to all others (except your leadership)? 3.Too much time on your hands? 4.Tired of spending time with your family? 5. Not sure what to do with those pesky leftover dollars? 6. Longing for a mind-fark? 7. Hankering to follow a crusty-twatted old witch and her team of flying monkeys? 8. Want to witness a mighty grab for power when they put the C-T O W in the ground? Anyone else care to help?

We research (study) the Bible for ourselves. Our own desire to know More of God. Of course this is something God encourages us to do throughout the Bible. So your wanting-to-do-it, is a good thing. There's an invisible line though between seeking God's approval, and simply seeking the approval of others. If you can say that what you're studying brings you closer to God, and you're doing your honest best before Him, you're going to enjoy doing it, and God is going to reward you. You are the only one that can cross that invisible line. Seeking the approval of others. When you study the Bible to recieve the accolades of others, when that becomes your motivation, you have begun wasting your time, and you'll rapidly lose sight of that very special relationship you could be building with God. In Order to help us, we have an example in Christ Jesus to follow: what he did, how he acted and the things that he said are a great place to begin. He showed us how. So "too far" is when you stop working on your walk with God, and start working on other people's walks with God. The goal you should set, is to increase the love that you have for God, and learn from that, how to love others and yourself. That's why I study. It doesn't mean you can't have fun,.. or that you can't hang out with friends, or crack jokes and enjoy life. Nor does it mean everyone will love you, but the people who are also doing their best to love God are learning this too, and we learn to love one another and forgive one another. In short, we Imitate God, and his son Jesus Christ. We learn the difficult things we need to know, so that we can avoid trouble and have a better life. Maybe I'm just simple in this regard, but anyone who loves God, is learning a great lesson. One that they can apply in all of their everyday life.