imbus

RAf, How did know you were going to say that? Hey, somthing that just came to mind. Do you remember hearing in DWA..."You cannot offend a corpes?"(sp?) The whole mind thought was in the context of witnessing to the "natural man" that he is dead spiritually. To offend him is irrelevent. I thought that was pretty arrogant to lable someone who doesn't believe as you do a Corpes. I guess TWI thought it was OK to offend their brethern in Christ because they where worse then dead...they are pooozzzesed. IMO mark and avoiding a believer is a slap in the face to Christ who is supposed to be the head of the church. If this is their understanding of JC, then who needs a saviour that discards people. I'm glad the JC that I have come to understand does not behave like that. Shame on you TWI. You give JESUS CHRIST a bad name.

I find that folks that profess being Christians usally have some sort of baggage that comes with the territory of believing Traditional Christianity. Spiritulality is quit the opposit of TC. If his being is compassionate and he loves you what more could you ask for. By your description of this gentleman he sounds like a keeper. Does he have a brother?

Am I possesed............................ If taking possession of my own thoughts,mind,life,fianaces,personal property and free will is being possesed.....I HOPE SO! If gaining my own sence of self, self- esteme,courage,wit,happiness,ownership,personal strength,respect is signs of possession....I HOPE SO! When I respect all peoples and faiths and do not be the judge or critic of any... When I ANSWER to the different drumming of my own SOUL and live athenticly... I HOPE SO... :D-->

D, Maybe what I should have said is that I don't use The Hope as a motivator. I let my moment by moment relationship with God be the drive or energizer.

Dig, Sorry about my reference to you as a man. My hats off to you sister.

Prior to the Way Corps I experianced some really wonderful moments. What was absent was leadership involvement. It seemed that God honored and moved inspite of TWI. I sincerly believe that God honored the heart not the doctrine. God was available and present INSPITE OF TWI.

Dig, I know my fear was bad but reading it from a family man's or women's point of view is much more intense. So much more to concider and work through. My hat is off to you for your courage to leave. Utmost respect, brother.

Shell, I'm not sure I believe the TWI teachings about rewards. I used to live in light of the Hope but not anymore. It's to complicated for my simplistic mind. From your post I gather your husband was a great man. It also sounds like he lived his potential in all areas. Future crowns be Damn. Sounds like he was a CROWN.

My whole point in sharing my experiance was how did I get to this mind set that having sex with a married man was o.k? I for one do not get a thrill out of oral sex. And by the way it was a one way street. I gave and did not recieve. With that having been said, if you knew me prior to the WAY CORPs this would be out of character. So there were many factors that led to my actions. Factors that have some roots in PFAL. (That has been covered in this thread.) Sometimes what has not been said speaks louder than what has been said. What was not been addressed in PFAL was adultry but murder. And again IMO set a precident, to open the door to the "if you can handle it" crap. I feel I was set up "Brainwashed" with years of indoctrination to come to this mind set.(How many times do you take PFAL? How Many times did you run a class? Where we not guided into mastering PFAL?) Lots of non-verbals from men and women both! Women who by example took a back seat to abusive male dominance in there marrages and relationship to men in general. Mrs.V.P is a good example of such a relationship. I think How@rd All@n should have been V.Ps wife with all the attention he received. Dorthia W. did not deserve what was delt to her while she was married to V.P. And all the stuff that has surfaced since his death...how humilating. So having not a strong female role model in my life I took my Qs from TWI women and men. Shame on me. Well that is all I have to say about that.

THANKS ROY, Good topic. FEAR that your not doing the word. FEAR of leadership. FEAR of failure. FEAR of commitment to anything. TWI and the WC helped establish the FEAR I already had in my life.

OM, I believe you received some form of egotisical, arregant joy out of this thread at my expense. What you have non-verbally done is interagated the issue inappropratly so that if other females were to speak their truth, it would be met with your meanspirited scruteny.(parden the spelling) BY your words I felt my soul was being raped and I believe that was your intent. To humiliate. I'v been in the mental health feild for over ten years and I know when a personal agenda is being masked. IMO your distaste for females rings loud and clear even if you do cloke it with the Bible. Most fundementalist do. So IMO your input wasn't really about adultry but more about degrading a female in the name of God. I can own my actions of adultry. Can you own for yourself what appears to be bitterness and hate twards women? And your attacks twards women who are apart of the Body of Christ? If this is loving your neibor as yourself then you most really loth some aspects of your being. I am really sad for you brother. I am sorry that, whatever you have suffered in life...it has brought you to this place of being. I'm sorry. I do not accept your apology if it was to patrenize me or others. I do accept it if.... you really mean it even if it is half hearted. Imbus

I got to thinking about this dialog on this thread. I must admit without OM and his oppossing opinion, the truth of the matter would stay in a one dimention. With this vollying of facts, perspectives and insights you come up with a well rounded understanding of the truth. Regardless of the topic it seems he adds a bit of cement to the mix of things. To make what ever he is oppossing very concret. There has been many folks with sound logic and facts that have been embraced and validated because of his opposite views. So without his input the validation wouldnt be as sure and healing as complete. Thankfully I do not take him serious at all. What I do however recognize is a meanspiritedness about him that is prevlent. OM needs the teaching of TWI to keep himself contained and I understand this. Whitout this theological system you mignt have someone out and about doing greater harm. I'd rather have him here on these threads then anywhere else where it would do irreversable damage.

OM, You had no intention of apologizing so stop the BS. I call it the way I see it and you my friend are a unhealthy individual. I'm sad that you will stay stuck in your world of Black and white. I know TWI has hurt a bunch of folks but you my friend, are the most hurt I'v seen on these post. You have a lot to recover from and I know your journey will be very painful. I don't think that you will be capable of going throug it. So I realize you can do no other. So happy trails my friend. And I really do you find some happiness and comfort in your life.

I said I was done with topic and I'm back to give one last input. " A MAN CONVINCED AGAINS HIS WILL , IS OF THE SAME OPINION STILL" It is meaningless to me about OM perspective. He IMO, is incapable to go any farther than what he has been taught. I'v learned by working with amotionally disturbed kids how you can get hooked in a power struggle by words. This is what is happening here. OM is getting some secondary needs meet and you my fine friends are feeding into it. It's not about opinions with him it's abot attention seeking and manipulation. He has obviously got a few folks riled. And he enjoys the Power of being confrontational. Like the kids I work with, the more you try to reason with them , the more hooked you become. GOOD JOB, OM you once again, gained control of the post by being what TWI has trained you to be. But I sence you had some serious behavior issues befor TWI and that TWI was a place to comfortably hide or act out on your stuff. BRAVO OM,BRAVO!

OM, please see my post on page 9 to you. Ladies and Gentleman I am done with this topic. I expressed my experiance with an Ordained Clergy and how I was misled in my understanding. To my knowledge the seed that was planted had its roots in PFAL. It took more then PFAL to get me to compromise my self respect. Years of Autocratic influence. First with my father, then to be cycled to TWI. Please look into the book "For your own Good" by Alice Miller. In the Pages you will see how both Om and my self have fallen victume to a horrible mindset. His for being so judgmental and black an white, mine for blind allegence to athority. We are both are victumes. Imbus

OM, you have the right to read the said post above and tear apart my intent. I ask you to just take it face value.

I am really sad for OM. His issues with women,grace,autocratic relationships and understandable neurosis have made him not in touch with his core self. It must be hard living in his black and white world and I understand why he must live there. Anything other than black or white is to scary. With what he has posted...he can do no other... and I accept that. OM, I wish you would consider reading a book I resently stumbled apon. "FOR YOUR OWN GOOD" [Hidden Crulity in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence} by Alice Miller. I really do hope one day that you experiance the liberation of grace and love. Also enjoy the healing that exist in the gray. Imbus

Thank you my brothers in Christ. Thank you for your sensitivity and support. It means so much to have you all speak your truth in my behalf. That speaks volumes of your spirituality and depth of heart. THANK YOU. :D-->THANKS OM, I don't really have to say anything, your post says it all... about you. I think boy, you have been found out, what your true character is. HAVE A NICE DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

greas-sup o, I mean wasup! I'm proud to be associated with you fine folks. Us greasers have united under the flag of freedom,individuality and most of all to be greasy. I'v tried to de-grease myself to no avail. I'v tried Sea Breeze, alcohol, and a little Clericil. I'v been to the Dr. about my condition and he said I have a terminal case of greasiness. SSSSSSOOOOOO....I guess I will have to live with being a grease spot and just hope for the best. GREASLY YOURS, Imbus P.S If I'm a good grease spot can I come back and be reincarnated into Boil on LOYBOY'S face?

I was in the 15th corps and it was an unwritten,unspoken accecptance that having sex with the MOG was o.k.(If you could handle it) I know of two of my corps sisters that had this type of relationship with the BOT. One was an eX-hooker from N.Y and the other was well-endowed. This type of unspoken doctrine originated in PFAL. When it was taught that King David could have any women in the kingdom and that his "sin" was having Urriah murdered, it set a non-verbal open door on the subject. After all David was choosen of God and even the prophet Nathan was at risk of death for speaking up about it. (V.PE interpretation) This type of crap puts in the mind of the young beleiver that sex was o.k for the MOG to have anyone he chooses and only God can reprove that man. I too know by experiance this crap. One of the most loving men I knew at H.Q, I blew. He had a wife and two kids and was on the Pres. cabinate and/or was head of a dept. How did I get to this mind set that nothing was sacrad, but only the word of God. How did I get to the place that my own self respect takes a back seat when it comes to MOG and his needs. Where did this .... come from? Well for me I believe it started with PFAL. This is the first time I have spoken anything about this and it is frightening. Frightening because I am not a slut and wanted more than anything to be a WOG. I wanted to be a spiritual women and I believed at the time it was my obligation. Reflecting back I am sad and grieve my loss of spiritual innocence.

Putting your life in word form is challanging enough. Having to put it in a public forum is stressful and makes you valnerable. YOUR STORY forum is one of thr most theraputic tools in prosessing. It like a support group. You speak your truth and avail yourself to the folks that have had the same experiance. It is cathartic and healing. It is a place to embrace one anothers journey, not to be the critic of it. Well said OAK.

Well said Shaz, OM... I think you're having a challange accepting responcibility for your part in this Cult thing. I sence you do not like to acknowledge your valnerability to a system that was not so honest or forth right. Hey, we all got duped and that is o.k.

"I WISH I WHERE THE MAN I KNOW TO BE" speaks volumes to me. I think on a fraudian sub-conscience level V.P was aware of the contol he had on people and the self proclaimed MOGOAT effect. I know when I was in a leadership position I believed I represented the absent Christ when I walked the word. That God talked to me 24-7 and that I could do no wrong. That when things did not go my way(as i Saw it)it was a personal attact from the advisary. I grew into a grandious...my stuff don't stink,"WOG". Arragance was over flowing and I had forgotten more Bible then most people will ever know. Sound familure? This is A closed system type behavior modifacation that prevailed in TWI. On one side of the coin you were brow beat. On the otherside you could join the "Called of God" to His "HOUSEHOLD". God's Crack troops.I took tke Bait. Yes, VePe was a complicated man and his complication has had residgual affects on the masses. I do have to ask one question. What happened in his life that made him NOT the man he knew to be?

VICTIM AND VICTIMIZER...As for me I have had to prosess the duality of being both. I know there were many examples to follow and I did my best to walk in there wake. I lost my whole since of self and became the next higher ups clone.REMEMBER: "Imatation is the highest form of flattery". I still come back to intent and motive to keep the shame at bay. I know my actions were because I did not know any better and expected the leadership to pave a pathway (example) of what was right and "HOW TO" walk the talk. The higher up the ladder I went the more uncomfortable things got..internally. YES, we were all victims and yes in some cases... victimizers. Weither willingly and knowingly aware or just following, hoping it was the right thing to do,personal acountability is in store. How much blame goes on the cult and how much you take ownership for is a privat matter and to be handled honestly with kind gloves.

I was introduced to this kind of disorder befor I got into TWI. My father had his own little cult following and held on tight till the day he lost his marbles. (Dementia) His wife and kids were his cult. I cycled right in TWI without missing a beat. After much therapy I can easily recognize the red flags of narcissism. VPW/LCM were the "kings" of the heep. There was and is, much more of this disorder prevalent at TWI. And I must say some ex-TWI folks have this disorder too. In order to be a TOP NOTCH cult leader you have to be narcissistic first. This has nothing to do with those of us who had a heart of gold and really wanted to serve.