imbus

Smitty, Well I guess that says it all. Boy when you look at your life factually it is rather sobering.

Not to sound redundent... but "For Your Own Good" by Alicwe Miller will substanctiate the Patton syndrome of V.P. Victors mind set for hierarchh was already astablished by the time he was a young adult. The Autocratic teachings that were a part of his germanic up bring played out in his organization. This book I have mentioned explains Hitler, Weirwill and other individuals who have masterfully manipulated the masses. Yes, according to this book V.P did fashion TWI and the WC like a militay power house, "spiritually speaking". Gods crack troops. Go figure. Another part of the puzzle put in place. This is a great day at GS. Thanks :)-->

ML... I'm sorry about your situation. Bro , your in my thoughts and prayers. Hang out in the Cafe' for a spell and get all the support you need. Lots of encouragement here. Sometimes you'll find yourself laughing over the silliest and stupidist things. I started to call you Moonie and thought otherwise. SEE :D-->

I wasn't around when M&A was activated. Thank God. I do know by experiance what is like to be emotionally cut off and physically isolated. My mother used this tatic over and over again and believe me it is effective. Great means of control and instills greater codependency. :(-->

Danny, I guess in my mind, in comparison to V.Ps life of service, I didn't rate. No wonder why I pushed so hard for so long. It was my all in all and it still wasn't good enough.... Thanks for the aha! :D--> Comparing suck! :(-->

I have not spoken of TWI with anyone, with TWI experiance, close to 15yrs. My therapist yes. She has gone as far with me as she can go. She assisted with getting my core self to the surface of my life. Not buried anymore underneath layers of abuse and self destructive behavior. With this site I am able to adress some of the doctrinal beliefs and mind sets that still prevail my thinking. It's nice to see yourself in others post, knowing first your not alone and have had the same questions. Although some folks means of communication might be uncomfortable...Who is to say thay can't express the what they fell. If I did'nt have some restaint, I would be Miss Pottie Mouth. For me, this site has healed and challanged the very depths of me. And it was all free. :D-->

TS, Well put. Definatly something to concider. I was around from "76-89". I was not at the heart of the info-structure but on the edge of it with corps. So my experiance was not direct with V.P. I will say I was very well treated by leadership except when the MICRO-management jerks were in place. I started experiancing the "rein of terror" while in the Corps. If what happened to me while I was in the corps, was indicative of who V.P was than I'm thankful the man is no longer here. Tom your perception for some reason makes me feel sad. I guess I was hoping that there was more spirituality to this man. He was so damn conviencing and so were his teachings. I guess I'm sad because I gave my all and I still greive.

It was my first year in residence, I was at Emporia. I remember being shut down emotionally. It took everything out of me at that time to be in the 15th corps and I felt nothing. Pat and John L@nn made availabl to the corps, to take a petal off of the roses on display if you so wished. They were sent from H.Q I think. I took a petal and taped to the inside of my Bible. Below it I wrote: "The Old Violin" Twas battered and scarred the auctioneer thought it scacely worth his while, To waste much time on The Old violin, but held it up with a smile. "What am I bid good folks?" he cried. "Who'll start the bidding for me? A dollar, a dollar- now two,only two- Two dollars,and who will mqke it three?".....---But No From the room far back a grayed hair man, came forward and picked up the bow; Then wiped the dust from the old violin,and tightenrd up al the stings, heplayed a melody pure and sweet, as sweet as the angels sing. The music ceased, and the Auctioneer,with a voice that was quiet and low.said "What am I bid for the old violin?" and held it up with the bow. "A thousand dollars, who"ll make it two, two thousand - and who'll make it three? Three thousand once, and three thousand twice- and going and gone" said he. The people cheered but some of them cried," We do not quite undestand, What change the worth?" a man replied: "THE TOUCH OF THE MASTERS HAND" V.P Weirwills Teachings and TWI kept me alive and gave me a reason to live. It also has caused endless heart-ache for me too. But I must admit without "his ministery", I probly would not be typing at this time, but layed in a grave somewhere. So I do recognize the importance of his life in relationship to my existence. I just wish he was the man he knew to be.

Goey, :D--> Wonder 1,

Laleo, Thanks for you insight. I really appriciate your objective veiw on this matter. Your writing style speaks volumes of mindful intent. I felt that it was well developed without prejudice. Your imput is always welcomed in my life. I realize that for every opinion,there is a religion. Each is entitled to believe as thy choose. The topic at hand is a tough one. It has complexities that we haven't begun to cover or are not even aware of. I understand though there are no black and white answers just alot of gray. Life is actually lived in the gray zone. When one posts it is either subjective or objective. I find I post from my experiance (subjective) and find it difficult to see things from a different angle. Thanks for the way you have handled this topic. I will ponder what you have written. I do know that "each cituation merits its on judgement" and "God only knows what is in the heart of a person" when it comes to intent. The intent of Leadership and those that followed. Zixar, Dude...I can hardly spell and you come up with this gramatical stuff. Are you an English Professor?

Exie, What you upset about? What has got you upset that you haven't read but are ....ed anyway? Shazdancer, Thanks for adding the final touch to Rafs post. It was about love for me and wanting to be God's best. Shame on me!

Here is some more of the list. . Rejects compliments or praise. . Think your not good enough. . Be afraid of making mistakes. . Feels sad that they spend their whole lives giving and nobody gives to them. . Feel board,empty and worthless if they don't have a crisis in their lives, aproblem to solve or somone to help. .Abandon their routine to respond to or do somthing for somebody else. . Focus their energy on other peoples problems. . Try to prove they are good enough for people. Well just a few. I remember being a WOW and every action was CD based. I was not aware of it though. ONe last thing... The Anxeity I experianced in my life I thought were personal attack of the advisary. I had no idea it was from PTSD and General anxeity diorder. Years of thinking I was under attack or that I was out of fellowship.

Raf and Oakspear, Thanks for you insight. The longer I hang out at GS the more awareness comes to me of what and how. It's nice when things resinates from someone elses words. It's like scratching an itch. You finally have Sunesis or it's a a-ha moment. Thanks so much guys. Love, Imbus

In the mental health feild we call a child who is oppositional to all and in all things,"Oppositional/Defiant".It is a disorder. One of the statagies for dealing with this disorder is planned ignoring! When a child tries to hook you with words into their mind set,(to get their way) then it becomes a power stuggle with words. You lose. The reason you lose is because you are on their turf so to speak and are engaged by their rules of arguement. And we all know... "you cannot reason with an insane mind". Kids that are not cognitivly mature reason very little. They cannot be reasoned with. The reason I bring this up is that Oldies and John have stated their opinion over and over again. And also has brought the topic of choice to their turf. Changing the abuse of power to "those adulterous women" It appears they are very fixated on women who commit adultry. Any way I'v learned that if you ignore the word digs, "hooks", then you don't get caught up in the back and forth power struggle or one up-manship. With children you redirect them BACK to the original start of engagement and DO NOT DEVIATE. They will do what ever they can to distact you from the original form. If you get distracted, it is a no win situation. Oldies and John are not going to change their mind's and they will try like children to change the topic to their playing feild. It's up to you good folks weither you want to play by their rules of distraction or not. But be advised they will use painful,arrogant words and logic to hook you. I choose not to play. :P-->

Does anyone remember the saying."A suggestion is paramount to a command". I learned that in the corps. That you hop to on any given suggestion. This I did not learn from my parents or any athority but TWI. I was so good at it I anticapated what the suggestion would be,and did it. That my friend is either being overly responcible, walking by the spirit or brainwashed. Oooooppppps there is that word. I believe it was alot of all three. That is just MO

Daryl, Will you marry me? I know you are gay but you sound like my kinda guy! :D-->

OOOOOPPPPPSSSS, I erased the CD part... how did I do that? I really need a class on this puter. Will include it tomarrow.

Here are a few more characteristics of CD. Females are more apt to be codependent then males. Our society on a sub-conscious level influences and aims the role of care-taking to women. The same goes for traditional Christianity. Look at the Jobs that women fill in relation to their counter parts. Nursing, Social intrest,etc... We have come a long way and our male counter parts are steping more into care-taking social shoes.

You bet Ex... bring some cheese!

Raf, Insurgent, Houseisrockin,Tom Strange, DMiller...Thank you so much for your gallent hearts and knowledge of the Bible. Having been "the women" in this situation I applaud your stance. The issue is not adultry but abuse of power. For myself again it was about not trusting my inner core self and giving up my power to the "spiritual ones". It took years of indoctrination to bring me to that compromising place. In my mind I was blessing God because I blessed his leadership. (I could puke now.) Gentlemen you are welcomed at my house any time. Your love for God speaks loudly to somone (me) who doesn't quite trust Christianity anymore. I'v read and seen to much oppression of women via this belief system and it's in the name of God. BULLSHIF!!! The Jesus I know would be far removed from the way some folks talk and feel about women. Dinner is at 7PM, come on over, and bring some wine.

Waterbuffalo... wonderful imput. Sunese... good insight. TL... your so right,Twi was a breading ground for Codependency.

I think we'll all be suprised as to what was important to the Creator GOD. Compassion, Mercy, Grace and Forgivness might be at the top. Who you sleep with at night or laugh with in the mornig will probly be at the bottom. MHO

Haven't read all the thread on this...but I can amagin. My imput is to read "LIVING IN SIN" by John Sheby Spong. He addresses such issues as Devorice, Marrige, Pre-marital Sex, Homosexuality, Male and Female roles from a historical and biblical point of view. It is a masterpeice of research work and is a quick read.

I know for myself the most powerful prayer I can pray to start my day is the Serenity Prayer. God, grant me the serenity to acceept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And the wisdom to know the difference. Wisdom to know the difference,that's a good one. Healthy Neutrality comes to mind when I think of my codependency. Being neutral in all things and not allowing myself to get hooked into others drama or chaos amotionally. I believe your right about bonding to a father figure(V.P) in the WC. It was recycling what we experianced as children. For those of you who did not come out of TWI or the WC with Codependency...LUCKY YOU!

On another thread Ala brought up co-dependency as part of the mind set of individuals who were ripe for following irrational teachings and directives. Definition of a codependent is as follows: "A codependent person is one who has let another person's behavior affect him or her, and who is obessed with controlling that person's behavior." Melody Beattie I realize this is a simplistic definition but is as deep as an ocean. Here are some characteristics of a codependent. 1.Think and feel responsible for other people- for others people's feelings, thoughts, actions, choices, wants, needs, well-being, lack of well-being and ultimate destiny. 2. Push thoughts and feelings out of their awareness because of fear and guilt. 3. Feel teribly anxious about other peoples problems. 4. Blame themselves for everything. 5. Never find answers. 6. Have been victims of sexual, phisical,emotional abuse, neglect, abandonment, or alcoholism. 7. Feel alot of guilt. 8. Became afraid to let other people be who they are and allow event to happen naturally. 9. Stau busy so they don't have to think about things. 10. Get confuse. 11.Don't feel happy, content, or peaceful with themselve. 13. Latch onto whoever or whatever they think can provide happiness. 14. Center their lives around people. 15. Lose intrest in there own lives when they love. 16. Let others hurt them. 17. Wonder why they hurt so badly. 18. Have sex when they don't want to. 19. Withdraw emothonally from there partner. 20. Have weak boundries. This is just a list of 20. There is about 150 charactristics codependents tend to be. When I was with TWI I lived all these and more. It has taken years to change some of these behaviors. Some of the teachings that incited codependent behavior was # 1, at the top of the list. We are Gods hands and feet and that God has no one else to walk among the almost dead. How overwelming a"truth". AS for me I latched onto The Way... anyone else?