imbus

Well said Dot!

Leaf, MY3cents really put it togerther for you. Its a journey within, to find out why. Alot of the topics at GS handle your question in different ways. Read all that you can and what resinates with you, put in your pocket. With time it will come together for you. But most importantly is...be kind to yourself. For years I beat myself up for being so valnerable. Then I realized TWI kept me alive when I was at my wits end. That's MY story. So take your time and enjoy the fellowship of GS along the way. WELCOME

Roy.....MY O MY! You've lived quiet a life .I m glad you are a part of GS and contribute. Hope your health gets increasingly better and that you find work. Thanks for sharing bro.

From my observation of and experiance within the mental health feild, there are a few chronic mental health problems that LCM needs to address. "You that are without...cast the first stone".

BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER,PARANOIA,NARRSISISM,GRADIOUSITY,SOCIALPATHIC,DETACHMENT DISORDER,OPPOSITIONAL/DEFIANT DISORDER,OBSESSIVE/COMPULSIVE DISORDER,SEXUAL ADDICTION,ADHD,SPIRITUAL LEARNING DEFFICITE DISORDER,CONDUCT DISORDER,ect. Characteristic of a seared consciencs at TWI. All this equals PTSD(Post tramatic stress disorder)and GAD(General anxeity disorder) for the MA folks. This you can recover from. The said diognosis mentoned above of TWI is very difficult if not impossibe to over come.

You know I would hate to beleive that the 11 yrs. with TWI was worthless. There where a lot of good healthy moments. And by experiance there was alot of painful moments and now know that the doctrine was shaded and harmful. Does that make me a spiritual perpitrator? Hell no! Like many I beleived in what I was taught. Yes I was brainwashed and often times then not ...confussed. And I do take responcibility for being an instriment or pone in the sceem of things. BUT some how in the insanity of it all there has to be meaning and spiritual significense to it all. I beleive there is.- Viktor Frankl wrote a book about his time in a concentration camp during WWll."Man's search for meaning" In it he ponders the question, "What is the meaning of all this suffering and death." His conclusion was each individual has to go through some form of self-actualization and find the hidden truths of his existance. {Actually he said more then that but it is the some and jest.}- For me I needed TWI because I was a basket case any way. It kept me alive for a long time. But when I think of all those years in "christian service"I realized NOW I am able to recognize when inspiration hits and when God is at work in me. Even when it was shrouded in questionable beliefs."Love[God] never fails." I think we all really loved God and wanted what was best for people. We were deceived into beleiving TWI had the best product on the market.- I am still up for helping Gods people...But now I do it more catiously and answer to no man. TWI taught me that in a negitive but profound way.So I guess if I let TWI get the best of me and I shut down spiritually then I guess that 11 yrs. was a waste and there is no meaning to our suffering or our existance. I hope you do not find this to aggressive. I mean well.

I hesatated to bring this up but I think it might give a different slant on sickness and dying. - My mother was diognoised with terminal lung cancer.(She started smoking when she was 14y/o). She was given 4 mos.to live. My brother belieived in her instintanious healing, I did not. I was of the same beleif as my older sister that her cancer was a consquence of smoking and at best could ask God for extention of life. WEll my mother lasted 2 1/2 years. In the 2 1/2 years tremendous healing happened. 1st(miracle #1) my father was put in a nursing home because he fell and broke his hip. He also had dementia. My mother with her cancer ridden body had no buisness taking care of him. With him safly nusttled away my mother had the freedom to do as she pleased, which wasn't much.- I have to say this in order for you to get the scope of healing my mother recieved.- My father was an extremly abusive man. He was narrisistic,contolling and verbally abusive. He made Archie Bunker seem like a girl scott. My mother becme the focus of his rage although he never laid a hand on her. There was a constint stream of accustions of infidelity,peversion and women are dirt.- So until my father got dementia, this was a 40+ years of oppression and abuse. My father tried to ruin every friendship she ever had with mothers in the neiborhood. My mothers friend Joyce was a Godsend and that friendship endured.- As my mothers cancer progressed she was given a hospics worker that was male. That man loved my mother in to living again. He pampered her,made her feel like a queen.He dotted on her so much that she felt like a women was suppose to feel. Special! She was finally nurtured. (Miracle#2)- My mother always has taken a back seat to my father. Her life was insignifacant compared to his needs and demands.WELLLLL. The local newspaper was wanting to run an article on "Death and Dying". They found out that my mom was terminally ill and asked if she would volenteer to be the subject. She said yes. So they followed her all the way to her last breath. For 9 mos. she was in the spot light. Those 9 mos. was about her and how she felt. She was front page news and the community followed her journey.(miracle#3) This miracle is self explanitory.- WEll it so happened that a good friend wanted to come see her. It was Joyce. Joyce was my mothers mentor, sister,soul mate. Joyce hung out with my mother foe 4 mos. My mother laughed again and became child like with the stories of a friendship that could not be smothered. It was not a friendship renewed but a friendship continued. Joyce even got in the news paper.(miracle#4)- When my mother passed it was very peaceful, contrary to the life she had lived. So I guess there was tremendous healing that happened. It wasn't in the realm that my brother beleived for but in the areas of greatest need. Her soul was restored. What a great way to have your lifes story end.- My mother was not a perfect mother. She was abusive too. But her stuff was about survival and ignorance. She was partially paralized on her right side and had a learning disability. So I hold no ill feeling twards this women. I'm very happy she was healed even though it was not phisical.- The final 2 1/2 yrs was the best years of her life, cancer and all.

When I was a WOW in leesville La. near Ft.Polk we happened on this property with a FOR RENT sign in the yard. The "retired" Army sargent rented us his house immediatly, furniture and all. We move in. 4 months later there was a knock at the door with a mad real-astate owner screaming bloody murder. Apparently the good Sgt. was not retired but kicked out of the Army and was sub-letting the house to us. Well when he showed up for rent ,he got an ear full and we kept the furnture. To the real-astate guy we only paid $5.00 over what we were paying the good Sgt. Mostly that year I was on a liquid diet. I tended Bar. I did learn to like Black beans and rice and carring a gun was a way of life in that town. Had a shot gun behind the bar. Oh yes...I played hard and moved the bible. It was a good year.

Dearesr Frank, This post on sickness generates alot of pain.(pun intended) When I left TWI, one of the first things I wanted claifacation on was sickness and its origin. For years I lived with shame because of "my" inability to heal someone or shame-filled cover-up and rationalization as to why others didn't get healed when I did beleive and they didn't. I did't have the meaness to be accusitory and say "it your fault" I certainly did not buy into "what was your sin to cause this?" ------------------------------------------------ I had to go back to Jn.10:10 and ask what is the abundent life? Then ask if what I have been taught realistic? Well to make a long story short I finally figured out........ HAPPENS!.... happens to good and bad alike. And the Law of beleiving is not as powerful as we had been taught. It's all about Gods Goodness and not my narrsistic beleiving. So with that I say this...Like the rest of the world, your born, you live, you get old, you die! And yes we do get sick and that is o.k. ------------------------------------------------ TWI hooked me with promises of abundance, being Gods elite and having Power.Once I was hooked, I tried day-n-day out to make those promises work. And when they didn't happen, it was all about me, never about what I was being taught. ------------------------------------------------There is a book out Titled" The Betrayal Bond" by Patrick Carnes.It talks about betrayal by suduction(promises)and spirit(clergy in positions of power and abusing that position) well I can ramble on so I guess my point is...Hope all is well with you and if your ever sick GIVE YOURSELF A BREAK.

IMO, This present truth idea is a continuance of the old present poop, with a different smell to it.Or is it present hoop? What ever the lable ,it's still incosistent verbage of something that does't work, has hurt the masses and is down right evil.

WOW,WOW,WOW,WOW,WOW,WOW,WOW,WOOOOOOOOW! SPEACHLESS!!!!!!

Something is very stinky about all this pelt passing. Who was the originator of the sacrad pelt? Who gave it to V.P? I think the Native Americans would be highly offended to know that a skin of great honor was used to adorn such dishonorable people.

3x5 cards, hhuuuuuum I seem to remember something about them. I went to John Lynns office and sat there in shock as my life was been read from a 3x5 card."You said this , you did that ,you didn't do this and where were you and why where you late." I was not kicked out of the corps but put on a 2wk. probationary period. I was releived of my job responcibility in the Bianchi Apt. and put in refinishing where i could do no harm. That was the start of a romantic relationship with leadership. I was screwed no matter what I did... right or wrong. Wacky i think the 3x5 cards where Emporia specific. A meanspirited directive given by leadership to teach some 13th corps to be *ssh*les and a means to kill any free thinking 15th from moving on or upward.I think you said it well on the phone.The corps produced two types of people,codependents(can't think for yourself) and control freaks. Both mind sets are very screwed up and takes a while to get the dodo out of your life.

Dear EW, Good question. I attend a lot of places. My favorite is a Methodist church in Phionex.Every time I go there I am awe struck by the love that is diplayed by the minister and unity of the congrgation. It is very deversified and you can since no judgement or ridicule, just warm acceptance. They too,like ex's church, is very community minded. Has groups to suit every need. They're handeling of the Bible is very simplistic and understanably practicle. It puts me in a child like frame of mind with all my defenses down. The other place is an Episcapal bible study. Father Charles is a genusis with the historical and intellectual background to the bible. He privatly has helped me with Way Brain. My therapist suggested meeting with him. About the Methoist church...A gay therapist at work was looking for a church and found this one. She and her girlfriend invited me knowing my spiritual abuse hx. It has meet my most basic and yet most important need...Sweet fellowship. A very good question... thanks!

dearesr bramble I'm glad your out and that you have a better handle on life.Twi always stired up chaos. As for finding friends it took me years to be able to hold a simple conversation. And you know Im pretrafied of groups too. I can tolerate an AA group but dont get me to commit to the 12 step program. No way. Anyway thanks for sharing. "It's good to be alive...without The Way"

At Twi when I worked in Hskg my intrim year,I was assigned to doing the floors in the WOW auditorium.I remember thinking obsessivly about "behind ever dust bunny there was a devil spirit". That is what I was taught. Talking about being a slave to an enviorment you had no contlol over. DUST BUNNIES HAPPEN. I now attend a Dust Bunny support group and am on step 1. We admitted we were powerless over Dust Bunnies-that our lives had become unmanagable. My life was so unmanagable because I was spendind to much time vacuming those devil spirit ladden dust bunnies out of ever cornor. Anyway I'm in recovery and I do not have the drive nor desire to go after those bunnies......Thank you. I pass.

Thanks Kit for the direction to Pet affection. I never wonder to that part of the web because I can't contribute. It's locked so I just by pass it all together. Good story JL. God is good to all things. Thanks for sharing.

Thoght it would be fun to share some pet stories. You kow the ones that you nearly pee your pants about.This is my favorite. While I was working at a eating disorder facility a stray cat appeared on the primises. This cat was names "carmello' by the clients. He was near white with blue eyes. He kept the mice population dowm so we thought. I noticed that "Carmello was getting thinner and thinner. I thought it was a direct corrilation with were he live.(animals will sometimes take on the behaviors of those they are around.) Well this cat lost so much weight that people started to take notice especially the director. She said the cat was diseased and was going to call animal control. (It was also against JACHO rules.) The cat was walking sorta side ways with his head tilted to one side. So befor he could be wisked of, my friend and I took ownership of the cat. Well on the way to the Vet to be checked out I renamed him "Mr.Man". On account he had the largest gonads I have ever seen on a cat. I mean this cat would put any species to shame. Apon exam the Vet said he had ear mites so that is why his head was tilted. Also that he is nearly blind and catching mice was almost impossible. I asked the Vet to give all the appropriate shots and to have him nutered so he wouldn't spay in the house . (There was another cat.) The Vet looked at me with a funny look on his face and said "He already is." Well now! Now that "Mr.Man" has filled out I think the vet was right.

Dearest posters, Judging by the lack of responce I sence that maybe I'v been a little intrusive. For this I aplogize. I guess what I'm asking is...Since we are not greaspots and are still here,I'd like to hear some sucsess stories of "Life without The Way"in any catagory you wish to share. I am so Thankful to my higher power that I am still alive and have tremendous possibilities. available.

This is a forume to tell of your journey since TWI.I was amazed to here Wackyfunster journey and continued evolution to be her athentic self. Although being her true self I dont think ever was a problem. I like the "Lord of the Rings " series. Remember Bilbo Baggins writing a book? " There and back again, a hobbits tale" by Bilbo Baggins. Well I would love to hear your tale. Good or bad makes no difference. It's your story, so share what is comfortable. Entered the U.S Army in 88 Left Twi in 89. (In since 76) Stayed on active duty till 94.I loved being a combat medic and ER tech. Was stationed in Fairbank AK. Got out because the militay changed to a "peace keeping force." Drank my self drunk for 6mos. worked OB/GYN ,I hated it . Worked as a behavior specialist for kids that could not be in public school. I loved that. Went to Colorado with a friend to be a female wrangler and outfitter. 2nd day of school broke both my arms in a horse accident. Was layed up for 6mos. doing phisical therapy. Got a job working at a Eating Disorder residential. Had a love /hate relationship with that. I was too co-dependent and those girls loved the chaos. That was the time my drinking got to be to much . Also at that time my mother was diognosed with terminal lung cancer. She only was suppose to live for 4 mos. She lasted 2 1/2 yrs. My Dad had dementia and was slipping to. They both died 6 wks apart. Same day ,same hour. So my plate was pretty full amotionally. resigned from the anorexic facility buried both my parents and went to work with amotionally abused kids. I love that but have been beat up so much that I now work nights. What I have learned about myself is I'm an alcoholic in recovery. I have learned to set boundries and limits. Twi taught me the opposite. I see a therapist for couceling. And my journey with God is realitivly new and different.. That part of my life has been buried and now Im ready to handle my Way stuff. Celtic spirituality resinates with me and different types of mystisim. So I am a work in progress. I just happened to wonder on to gsc and have not left since the first day of reading begun. That is more or less my life. I have had failed relationships but that is another story. Now its your turn. I look forward to reading your journey.

Wachy, my thoughts exactly. GS has been instirmental in getting different perspectives,insites and understanding going in my head other than Waybrain. To read the different abuses and accounts has made me fell "Im not alone" and it wasn't all about me. But at the same time it has stird so much emotion that a little bit of harmless fun on the treads has eased the pain. On occassion I do LOL. As far as the spars and in house fighting that is a part of the human experiance.I persoally hate conflict and to read the on going fuedes reminded me of the one- upmanship that was pevilant at twi among leadership or leadership want-to-bes. Anyway what i NEED to read more of is... How do/did you get to the place that it doesnt hurt as much or what do you beleive now and how is your walk with the creator? I spent an hr. on the phone with Wacky to reconnect with my past and allow for an X-way person to speak their truth. It was what the doctor ordered. I needed to hear that im going to be ok and can get through this. I needed to hear a voice. I needed to hear what Wacky went throgh and what has been her journey since.Not to get permission for anything but just a little valadation that I am not alone and yes" there is life after twi".I wish there were more postings on the journey that most of you have taken and where it has lead you. IN recovery groups the wonderful thing about them is... you hear other's storys and they share what works in there lives. Or hear the question" this is what has happened to me ...what can i do do now to change my future." I love to hear what others have done. It provides me with more options and understanding. well thought I speak my mind and hope to start a diolog on this . Maybe I will.

Speaking of Donna...... What ever happened to Leah and Timothy? I tought Leah in childrens fellowship at H.Q . I hope she doesn't have any addictive personality triats like her father. That would be sad.

IMO, Mel is forfilling a commitment to never forget where he came from. In his youth he was beat severly while he working on the docks in Aussie Land. He was so disfigured from the beating that after he healed no one would hire him.( I got this from NPR) He was absolutly horrifying to look at. When he had hit his very bottom he walked inside a church. The priest felt so bad for him and worked on getting him help. The priest worked with the medical community to get surgery done pro-bono. What was not pro-bono was paid by he church. Mel in his journey has done another fine peice of work."The man without a face" I think he was able to catharticly move past some of the emotions that he felt in that time of isolation in his life. In an interview I heard he said that his drug and alcohol abuse had left him spiritualy bankrupt. He was suisidal and finally went into recovery. There he was able to heal and put his personal demons to rest. To forfill a promise to never forget what was done for him by the church....hence the movie. This movie was 10 yrs in the making in his mind. So herrrraaah for Mel . His own personal thankyou to not only the church but his God too. TWI be damned. Let me see them put our money where there mouth is. A HAA, didn't think so.

Hey cafegirl, Keep talking . It does a body good. Its like being emotinally plugged up and finally having to go."GREASE"spot has a madisinal way of disloging all the B*ll.... and heartache that we have endured. RUN with baby, Run with it!

Hey Rascal, TWI is imploding as we live and speak. The things that attracted us to twi was yes, an organized (the way) of viewing the bible,unconditional love,a place to belong and reason for our existance. I know, back in the old days people really beieived for signs,miracles and wonders and saw them. Not because of twi's teachings or beleiving but because God is good and bigger than the organization and us.(It took me a while to figure that one out) The things that were done on a spiritual plane,(because we so loved people and wanted Gods best for them)I think made the difference between GOOD AND EVIL.Love is spiritual. The reason i think twi cannot endure much longer. It is because of the lack of love ,limited inspiration and the meanspiritedness of the group. Those qualities are self evident and are easy now to identify. These characteristic used to be upper echolon behaviour. Now it has filtered down to a twig level. And for thoose of us that said enough is enough are witnesses to what is despirtly evil. I am so sadened by something that was in spirit sooo healing, was used to further financal and sexual gain. Regardless of the evil, I got to experiance God in a manner that... could not be taught and sometimes shared. When you peel away the layers of twi thinking and hooopla, you are made aware of the spirituality you lived and had your being in. Your spiritual core self will affirm you. Again as for twi it was an organization that was terribly wrong with a bunch of people(you and me)that were terribly right. And it was the right people who made it work. Those people have left and are leaving. So I dont worry about twi future...it has none. THAT IS MY FINAL ANSWER !!!!!!