Ham

I don't think that anybody does. All I know is adhering to the same bunch of dogma for close to twenty years with unflinching loyalty, I was pretty stagnant..

I dunno.. I think anything goes.. but I would really think a person should think a few times before tattoing their boyfriend/girlfriend's name somwhere.. tattoos have been proven to have longer longevity than marriage.

And don't worry. You won't get possessed, or any more possessed than you already are..

Looks like it may favor the religious "right" here.. still, I am impressed the the amount of uncertainty in the crowd.. 147 views. Ideally, I'd like to see a hundred and some votes on this thing.. Come forward, you cyber creatures of the night.. just log in anonymous and vote. Nobody will ever know..

Hey, I talk to myself all the time. Sometimes I actually answer.. No, somebody had post number two on this thread. No idea what happened to it or who the poster was.. it just went "somewhere".. whoever it was asked if he had a sister, that's all I remember. Maybe it was a deleted account..

Pond maybe it is good to be able to merely ascribe to a belief.. Some used to think the earth was flat.. some people thought the moon was made of green cheese.. A lot of what we supposedly "know" evolved from fiction. What is a hypothesis? Is it true, or is it somebody's guess? It just seems to me, without an exit ramp, a person may find themselves not where they really want to be.

"Haunting" No, actually I thought I might get a wider audience to contribute if they could do so anomymously. I do have some opinions about it, but I wondered where people have come in their thinking from vic's rather narrow approach to spirituality. Looks like at least three people can honestly say they don't know, for sure.

Thanks for your input, Roy. :) What is interesting here.. I think some of us have gone beyond the need to "know that you know that you know." That was not the main reason I came to der vey to begin with. What good is a belief, unless it can be backed down from? I think it is kinda like a computer program.. crank away at something long enough, and you really need to find an exit somewhere.. otherwise a person can be like a hamster on a wheel. ooops.. mixed metaphors, or similes..

Yeah.. "we're not here to have fun.." I've heard that enough times.. I've even heard that kind of sermon from an offshoot.

More like they pulled in the welcome mat. I don't think they have anybody left there with even enough warped logic to attempt to debate it..

I'd like to see one of these sycophants chime in and say how it was for our own good or something.. "you, sitting at the keyboard, you know who you are.."

I don't want this to go to doctrinal, and I don't plan on really discussing the belief, unless somebody really wants to. I would simply like to know what the general thoughts people have here with a poll. Don't worry, your vote is anomynous.

Yep. You know, martinpuke sent out these gestapo (at least I believe) with primary goal number one: break friendships. Not soon after this, he boasted on a sunday night service that people would have NO PLACE TO GO if they left der vey. And that was pretty close to the exact words he used.. He called those who left spiritual ORPHANS. Well, of course.. your "family" structure had been aniliated.. A couple of years before I got out, I got involved in a radio club- one of martinpukes dreaded civic organizations. I had a few friends, and a place to go, of sorts. I imagine a lot of other folks didn't.

Yep. Udderly tremendous..

In the second half of the nineties, friendships were not "allowed". I remember Mrs. "Wonderful" being so suspicious, so jealous if some ot the ladies here spent time with the other women in the fellowship other than herself. This "wonderful" person went out of her way to break bonds between people. They left this area shattered in pieces. And worse than them followed them..

I'd like to restate this.. after seeing this demanded by one "leader" after another.. they'd come to the area, of course you were supposed to help them move, with chores, with.. everything. Watch the kids for them while they are going to corps night, or whatever.. but the friendship was not mutual. They "owed" you nothing.. but reproof, or criticism.. but you "owed" them. I remember the last couple here I dealt with. Before the big move out to one of the campuses, they could not sell everything, for the price that they really wanted out of it.. somehow, "believers" were "given the opportunity" to buy this junk.. Mrs. "Wonderful" was FURIOUS with the thought that they might have to give any of the crap away.. and most of it was GIVEN to them.. unbelievable. No matter how much TRUE love and care people gave these sycophants, they did not change. I've dealt with one scam after another.. right or not, I've learned not to expect anything..

Socks, I'm trying not to hurt myself laughing so hard.. What is interesting.. I've been out of the organization for about ten years, and I still look for spiritual reasons for often ordinary natural events.. but the eyes in the picture don't follow me around the room any more..

In a sense, I wonder if "true friends" is even a realistic expectation from anybody.. I just haven't seen it..

After a briskly consumed glass of cabernet, it still doesn't make sense.. hmm. I think it is the mark of a small soul.. worshipping the "fleeting shadows of a few great(?) names.." That's all I've got here..

I dunno.. the idea that somebody would refer to something ole doc vic taught (praise be his memory as long as it stays buried) as some kind of proof of "heresy".. Is kinda "nutso". Where are people's brains.. up an old mogster's rear end? sorry.. it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.. at least to me. It's like kinda like.. let me go get the Ouija board, conjure up the spirit of "st." vic, and see if it's OK.. sheesh. let me go have another glass of cabernet.. maybe it will make more sense..

Naw, Howard is probably too old to even see the bead.. L*nder, on the other hand.. probably shoot himself in the foot, or something else, trying to go for the firearm..

I have a high tolerance for pain..

I don't know about noble, maybe a litttle nuts.. I'm just.. a Squirrel without a cause..

Hey, I'd enlist..

Not if L*nder has his way..