Ham

I remember when some of the old leadership couldn't bring themselves to tow the line in loy's brave new world. In one of the letters in the main site here, loy said something like "I'll just have to send out the young guys, mistakes may be made, but it's for your own good.." The guy that came to my state, I would rate him somewhere between choice four and five. New corps "grad". And he was a goon.. The MOST intelligent thing I heard him say, was that he knew better than mixing his bread and vegetables, with a dull gleam in his eye, speaking fondly of his bread and vegetables.. He also stated that "water gives you energy". how so? "well, water has hydrogen and oxygen. You take the hydrogen, and the oxyen, spark it together, poof. You have energy. And water." I felt like saying, well, if you get energy from water, why don't you put it in your cars gas tank? Naw.. he probably would have done it.. Where did loy get these guys? This one, I think he found him under a rock. I think he's a region coordinator now. He was the "best" headquarters had to offer, AT THE TIME.

Oh, yes. These are UNRESOLVED issues, at least by those, including me, who have the issues. I can live with it if I have to.. no friggin way I can even attempt to fix it in the minimum of 24 hours that the craigster recommended. Regardless of what some may think, I am at peace, one way or another. I wonder what it is doing to the craigster himself. I wonder if he'll wait for another day..

I don't think they'd be able to change to the extent that I would consider. I've grown and changed since leaving, they'd have to catch up with me to begin with.

I've lost my innocence. I simply do not have the capacity to trust like I did.

If you mean the group of people that watched somebody get reamed and expelled from the ministry simply because he was sick and had to get up to go to the bathroom, and the rest did not object, or challenge the judgment of those who set themselves up as God's representative, the answer is no. The whole "fellowship" should have gotten up and kicked their collective asses. But we didn't know better at the time. This is one of the moments that I relive at times.

I think if he ever was, it was before vic got his claws in him.

I wonder if it was the same guy.. OMG. This character was so ignorant, so clueless, that I can't even remember his name. All I know, now he at least runs a REGION. good grief.. maybe somebody here could help me remember this minion's name.. frank123, maybe you could PM and tell me..

Ah, the last one. "We KNOW you're REALLY SCREWED UP. You had just better come clean and tell us what it is.." Something happened at that moment, I finally realized that they were crazier than loons. "hmm. Well, I'll think about it, and get back with you.." It had to have been an inspired utterance or something because the color left his face, and he said: "duhhhh, ooooo kayyyy, maybe that's a good idea.... duhhhhhhm." So, Mr. "I never mix my bread and vegetables" simply let me walk off with no further argument, the light having finally gone on in my brain.. I never returned. This is literally how it went. Considering the result, I don't think I could have done any better. Yep.. his claim to fame, said he no gastrointestinal (he couldn't use that big of a word though) troubles, because he didn't mix bread and vegetables. There's more, but I think it's the wrong thread for that..

Freud might say that they spanked him a lot because he was being rather rebellious when he was being potty trained..

Yep. And when the lord returns, he's gonna call the Pope from New Knoxville and box his ears, verifying this "scintillating" bit of detail. Ah, the dreams and aspirations of a half-baked yokel..

Back then, I thought they transcribed it all on clay tablets..

I think that is indeed one of the true "keys" to research, that was shunned like the plague in der ministry. I always wondered about the quotations of the bible, where the bible quotes itself. I forget the exact statistics, but about ninety nine percent of the time, the quotes are not an exact copy, or anything even near it. Rarely does the new context fit with the old one the quote was taken from. I read Bullinger about Gnome. He talked about the words of David about Ahitophel. Peter comes along "by inspiration" and says forget the context, it was really about Judas. Who was right? Or is there a "right" and a "wrong" in understanding all the details? I don't think so today. Words are added, changed, shuffled around. Forget the details, context is abandoned. Cardinal sins, by the "standards" of PFAL. You'd think God would take more due diligence to details when he read the bible.. I remember in the class ole doc criticizing sunday school teachers. He was practically foaming at the mouth over somebody saying "this is what I think it means". "You don't think, you read.." "You read WHAT'S WRITTEN, and YOU STAY PUT." "I don't care what YOU, or anyone else THINKS". I believe that you can get so caught up in the details, that no thinking is necessary.

I don't know how much owning a gun would do for me.. I honestly don't think I could pull the damn trigger. I could probably beat the snot out of the guy before he assaulted my class mates if I had to. The only thing I wish, I sincerely wish people would not use some disaster like this to make some kind of political statement. On either side.

Well, sometimes, my mind is well, there..

and generally,, light chooses the angle of refraction which minimizes the amount of time for it to reach point B after leaving point A. Well, if it travels through two mediums, anyway..

100 for me. Think there's an opening in a group for resarch?

Yeah, nice lady. I hope she is still as nice as I remember her. I hope they didn't beat the joy out of her.

hmm. Now I know the true "benefits" of corps night If "they" only knew, hehehe.

A friend of mine.. "The cat owns the house. She simply allows us to live here.."

forty years is kinda a stretch of the imagination.. I dunno. I think the clock is slowly advancing toward midnight. Think they'll turn into greasespots?

The sad thing, is that it works because the abusee thinks that the relationship is worth it. I think that is part of the conditioning, believing an illusion. No relationship is worth the price of abuse. I think this kind of conditioning burned out some people's brain cells. To this day, some can not admit that vic could do wrong, or think "well, it wasn't so bad.." "so what if a few got raped.." vic was the master of this. Go from slobbering and crying, to screaming at the drop of a hat. sounds like one of the last sunday night services I attended.. After reading all of this, and noting that loy was a psychology major, a lot of what I experienced in der vey kinda makes sense. I think he knew exactly what he was doing..

The only thing I would add to this:They sometimes also stay in relationships that they PERCEIVE as being abusive. Whether the abuse is there or not, the effect is the same, and that in itself isn't exactly healthy. I think a lot of the problem is the belief system itself, that if you made an agreement, you have to keep it right or wrong. That was certainly drummed into us, "If thou vowest a vow.." you stay with it until you're dead if need be. I think deliberate abuse of any kind invalidates the agreement. The troubling part of this is so much of it is cultural, generations of learned behavior. Some people think it is "normal". It is a trap, and I've seen some people literally wear themselves out emotionally and physically trying to keep up with the pace. I think that a lot of people were not consciously aware of the demands, and now find it increasingly difficult to maintain them, along with the increasing demands of society and work. Something has to give somewhere.. I think this is clearly where it crosses the line. I think this is perhaps the most damaging form of abuse, where a person forms an association between abuse and "niceness". They've learned not to reach out to a hand offering real help. In psychological terms, this is an element of operant conditioning. This was the mark of "leadership". They wouldn't admit it even if you had their tit in a vise.. "You are being influenced by da DEBIL.." Same use of operant conditioning.

Then he could do some famous teaching. "lessee, lessee.. loy is a hemmorroid on the, on the, uhhh, hmmm, something of life.." thanks Ala. hmm. six "let him eat sulfur", eight "other". I think the guy in the red suit tossed him back.. probably has enough hemmorroids as it is..

Yeah. I think for some, it is nearly impossible to re evaluate, with any different tools. Their identity is entirely dependent upon the beliefs learned in der vey. Loss of what they view as the standard equals loss of themselves, loss of their ego, loss of control. Or the illusion of it. Or even the perceived loss of reality itself. At one point, everybody has to let go.

Some people call it circular reasoning. There is only one way off the merry go round, at least that I know of.. admit that there may be at least a possibility that a person is wrong. My thought is that if you re-evaluate what you supposedly believe with the same set of tools you used the first time, it really is a fruitless exercise.