I Love Bagpipes

Okay Ex10....I'm serious about your offer. I talked with Mr. Pipes last night. It was just be me a coming. Don't know for sure yet, bet dang I'd love to get to this gathering. I'm gonna' seriously ponder it. Funny thing (not really though), just an hour prior to your offer I was hiking and thinking about this Texas hodown and I thunk, "Well God, if it's in late October or early November, I bet I could swing it." I hadn't read this thread at that point, just knew ya'll was a brewin' sumthin. And lo and behold...the date is ripe. But can ya'll Texans handle some eastern southernism???

Happy Birthday Hiway 29! Enjoy..................

:blink: WOW!!! :blink: (no pun intended...or maybe it is) Catchy title for Doug's book.

I read the following this morning from Cry of the Soul by Allender and Longman. (Yes, I am still working this book....thanks again Ex10. :) ) I post it because I find it thought provoking and confronting. I pondered it from different angles: my own sin of justifying violations; the sedative conscience T-bone described in another thread; the role of GSC exposing the sins of TWI in order to invite offenders to change; and forgiveness and redemption. It is from the chapter: "Righteous Anger: An Assault Against Injustice" (Note: Cry of the Soul focuses on how our "emotional life, including those emotions we shouldn't feel, forms a window that lets us see deep into the heart of God". The book focuses mainly on the Psalms.) (Italics are mine.) "It is a costly gift to be redemptively angry at one who offended you. It is far easier to feel no anger. But the absence of anger is the choice to remain unaffected by sin. Righteous anger is called for when we see God's glory violated. This is a tall order, to say the least. It is easier to mask our anger through busynesss or even deny the anger by blaming ourselves. It is safer merely to be irked on the surface and then go away and privately fantasize harm. Righteous anger moves beyond the private domain of fantasy into the realm of inviting the offender to struggle with the damage done and walk the path of restoration. Righteous anger must do more than invite the offender to change; it must invite him to marvel at where God focuses His staggering fury. This can be done only if our anger is interlaced with sorrow -- sadness for one's own loss, a grief for the loss of the offender, and most of all, a sorrow for the pain God feels as He sees His creation war against itself. Our pain is to be a bridge to comprehending the pain of God. He grieves for both victim and abuser. He feels sadness for the pain of His children and the arroagance involved in all sin." ......... "We can wield the weapon of righteous anger only if we believe in the wonder of redemption -- not a belief about redemption, nor an intellectual asssent to redemption, but a belief born of God's pursuit that has personally turned our hearts topsy-turvy in joy, sorrow, confusion, and wonder. True, our hearts may also battle with bitterness, but they will hold a strange warmth that equally longs to bless the offender. The desire to bless, to see redemption, will be experienced, in part, as the labor pain of birth....." End excerpt This being quoted, I am convinced that TWI as an organization will not turn for redemption. But individuals will. I was one of those individuals....as many of us were. Folks who have left TWI (and specifically GSC) "invite me to struggle with the damage done and to walk the path of restoration."

Quote from the book you sited: "...it struck me as a perfect parable of the way modern people treat the warning messages of their consciences." (Gosh, this subject could go into quite a few tangents...deep and thought provoking.)

: Thanks Jonny Lingo. You paint quite the pictures. Let us know when you get published. Colorful they are. :)

I haven't read all the way through this thread yet. I was Corps; I hitchhiked all over the country and I was one of the ones who had fun doing it. The subject here is foolhardy behaviour and putting people (kids) in harms way for unreasonable purposes. "Freely avail" is a misnomer. And maybe someone has already addressed that term here. It is a misnomer still today in TWI. No one put a gun to our heads for us to do the things we did.....but emotional abuse and manipulation were/are skillfully used in TWI. From the book The Emotionally Abusive Relationship (I am changing some of the words, like from partner to party): "Emotional blackmail is one of the most powerful forms of manipulation. It occurs when one party...coerces the other into doing what it wants by playing on the other's fear, guilt, or compassion. (sound familiar?) The following are warning signs that you are being emotionally blackmailed: - The party asks you to choose beween something you want to do or the party. - The party tries to make you feel like you are selfish or a bad person if you do something the party doesn't want you to do. - The party asks you to give up something or someone as a way of proving your love. - The party threatens to leave you if you don't change. " Other types of emotional abuse (listed in this book) used by TWI are: " -Domination (ordering another around, monitoring time and activities, restricting resources and social activities, isolating from family and friends, interfering with opportunities, etc.) - Verbal assaults (berating, belittling, critizing, humiliating, name-calling, screaming, threatening, shaming, etc.) - Abusive expectations (unreasonable demands, the party can never be pleased because there is always something more the other could have done) - Unpredictable responses (inconsistent responses to the same behaviour) -Character assassination (blowing someone's mistakes out of proportion, humiliating, criticizing, making fun of someone in front of others, etc.) -Gaslighting (continually denying that certain events occurred or statements made, insinuating that the other is exagerrating or lying) -Sexual Harassment (unwelcome sexual advances or any physicl or verbal conduct of a sexual nature that is uninvited and unwelcome)" This was the force applied. It is not physical force; it can be far more treacherous...because it is "invisible."

Rejoicing with you!

All these replies help. I'm not going to reply to each of your posts, but please know that they each help. The specifics that hit home with me are: I used the word against myself countless times by stuffing my thought/emotions, covering them over with scripture. Approval...it continues to haunt me. I remember Ex10 telling me not long after I left that TWI breeds approval into people. Approval before leadership equated approval before God...but of course this was not verbalized as such. So much of the entrapment (for me) (I think) is tied into this approval stuff. The changing present truth...and sometimes we weren't told it changed (like M & A, obedience to the MOG, mortgage debt)...just sort of tried to figured out what was still in force. But there was (even as of late 2005) the air that you don't talk about them...these "truths" that were no longer enforced. And you certainly don't talk about the past without thinking that you're wrong for doing so. Just flip the "forget the past" switch and life is rosey...grrr... T-bone, I never really thought of myself as part of the web. But I was. (duh) I thought about being caught in a web, but that I became part of that web...quite enlightening to me. I was part of the web! Gosh!Speaks volumes about entrapment. BTW, love your rantings. The whole household teaching....kept me in for a long time, and keeps others there as well. Within TWI, there is a constant suspicion of anyone outside the walls of Zion; a constant discearning of how the devil is trying to decieve; a constant scrutinizing of folks outside the walls and how those outside are wrong, missing the mark, could do work/set up/ etc. better if they only had TWI training. Authoritative research, etc. Another biggy. I remember LCM stating (or rather yelling), " They wouldn't know an orginal thought if it fell on them!!" It would make me feel like I was an orginal thinker because I had all this authoritative instruction. (barf) I do remember having the thought after hearing that one time, "I wonder if I would recognize an original thought." Do not consider, question, etc. This was taught in context of not to consider what the enemy tempts one with. (But if I don't consider, is it really a temptation? Hmmm...) If I don't consider how will I learn? Anyway the unwritten teaching was to not question the answers given by authority from leadership. If one didn't agree with the authoritative response, one wasn't meek. This perhaps is part of what breeds that approval. Spins my brain cell...uugh. (Thanks Waysider...I'm sure I'll stick around. I like the coffee. :) ) Self blame....and the law of believing. Control, control, control. It made me so nervous...if I made a mistake then I must have missed revelation. I would sometimes feel guilty for another's mistake!!! If I was an overseer in that situation, I should have gotten revelation regarding their mistake and taken care of it before it happened. Perfectionism. This wasn't listed as such in your responses, but it is there. Demonizing doubt, worry, and fear...the law of believing....approval before leadership. This all involves emotion (lightbulb!). This helps. I'll have to print this stuff...so that when I feel the confusion I can read some of this and help clear the sticky silk.

Lindyhopper, I think that Greek word is tarazzo. (Not sure of the spelling.) And no need to apologize. You add much to help this process. Your input is greatly appreciated. You made so many valid points. If I am not mistaken, it seems at one time TWI taught intuition does not exist, and that intuition (my own instincts) is really devil spirit influence/possession. (I could be wrong on this, but it seems I heard it at some point...from LCM.) That whole "these were more noble than those in Thessalonica": I came home from a teaching feeling awful a few years ago. Thoughts about how ignoble I was for not searching this stuff out every freaking day. I started thinking, most these people back then couldn't even read!!..much less have the time to search it out every day!! Getting food on the table was MAJOR work!! So I did a study of the context of that verse...and boy was I enlightened! It is comparing the Jews of Berea who received Paul to the Jews of Thessalonica who wanted to injure Paul and his crew! Nothing to do with those that were already born again and living it up! More in my next post. ......

:) LAE... Iffin' you want to visit "Mayberry," do come stay a night or two. We are in Mt. Airy one to two days a week. And the BR Parkway is only 1/2 hour from there. JA...Wasn't that some of the best $5.00 you ever spent for a full day of fun and exercise to boot...tubing down Deep Creek? Hope you got a tube with a plastic seat. (hee) We visit Bryson City at least 3 times a year. Relatives there...front porch we view the Nantahala Forest. Up the street in the back we view The Smokies.

Thank you for all the replies. I've had to stay away from this subject for a few days. (Decompression...too much, too fast gives one the bends. One needs some time to acclamatize.) I know I need to get back to it...not ignore it. I'm gonna read through your responses a little more and make some notes. It is important to me to understand (to a point...not all...but at least some...though all would be nice :) ) how much the teachings/practices of TWI influenced this part of my life (emotional entrapment). And quite honestly, I want to be able to articulate it..so that when someone else (still in) asks me specifics...I can verbalize it. Perhaps it will shake their braincells enough to consider changing directions.

Ron G...I can be gullible at times. Is this for real? Absolutely hilarious!!!

Rambler here again. :blink: Gosh if anyone takes the time to read this and respond...thanks. One day I'll quit thinking about this so much...won't I? Geez!!!!!!! I was reading the "caged" thread in tears today, and "the best of times," and "sense of loss," and "lessen the pain," and "unwritten policies." It all helps.......and confuses. Just more proof of the web. Yesterday I visited with a dear friend...exTWI with whom I've reunioned since leaving. I was trying to pinpoint what doctrines/practices specifically contributed to and intensified the emotional entrapment I claim on my "snippet story": " Claim: "By the end of 2005 I was well enough to make some major religious/spiritual changes in my life. I chose to leave an abusive religious organization I had been with for 28 years; many of the teachings and practices of this group contributed to and intensified the emotional entrapment with which I had been enslaved." Can I name these specifically? In talking with my friend and sharing a few incidents I came upon practices...but what about doctrine? Hmm..looking at my quote, I don't say "doctrine", I say "teachings". In my mind there is a difference. One teaches by lifestyle, not just doctrine. But I still have the question...what doctrines specifically contributed to and intensified emotional entrapment? A few practices that specifically contributed include: unrelenting standards, invalidating my perceptions, covering emotions/problems with scripture, unable to freely discuss problems...keeping "life" hidden because discussing something "negative" might insite devil spirits, self-blame ("That's not the Ministry's heart" regarding..say...pressure I might feel to conform to yet another standard). And if this is just too much REHASH, I digress and will wonder over to another counter. :unsure:

I posted the following the other day on the wrong thread dmiller. Woops.. :blink: Just want ya' to know you are appreciated!! "Hey dmiller....great AG on the pipes!! Funny, before listening to what you posted I was out on my back screened porch. The rain was beating on the roof....a heavy rain. I pulled out the recorder and sounded out AG....rather nostalgic it was. A couple hours later I come here and hear it on the bagpipes. Nice indeed.... "

Chuckles Ron G.!!!!!!!!! Happy birthday to your Andrew. Is the post made of "Norwegian Wood"?

Thanks Waysider for the enlightenment. I got in in the late 70's so heard about FL and the Minutemen. Running with the bulls....har har. Hey...I ran with cows that got loose one of my summers at RC. Rounding up the cows was more fun than killing the potatoe bugs... but not quite as much fun as the all night cherry pitting!!!

Too funny Oilfieldmedic!!! Kid's play....a day's work for the adults!! Gosh...Out of there this past Friday!! Heading home?!? I surely hope so. :) :)

Make me cry again why don't ya' Groucho and WW.... :) I'm not sure what kind of tears these are. Thankful some. Sadness some. I guess bittersweet. But definitely tears of gratitude for tender hearts. (Getting gushy here....) Chas, mine is definitely a sense of loss...at the moment. No one describes it better (for me at this point) than what TheHighWay wrote earlier in this thread (see below). Hey dmiller....great AG on the pipes!! Funny, before listening to what you posted I was out on my back screened porch. The rain was beating on the roof....a heavy rain. I pulled out the recorder and sounded out AG....rather nostalgic it was. A couple hours later I come here and hear it on the bagpipes. Nice indeed.... :) TheHighWay posted earlier: "It isn't a sense of loss over leaving twi. It is a sense of loss over the opportunities missed, the chances gone, the time wasted. That's what is being mourned. With leaving twi comes the realization that a chunk of your life died while you weren't looking. And now that you are looking, you have to deal with that death. And even though I can look at my life as a whole and say, "It's been a pretty darned good life," and truly be thankful, at the same time, there is a sense of bitterness because the choices were MINE, the decisions were MINE, and I was stupid and naive and timid and willing to just go along. I made bad choices. If the loss of time and possibilities occurred because of conditions outside of my control, it would be easier to swallow the bitterness and regret. The hardest part is reconciling myself to the fact that it didn't have to be the way it was. I did that. And I have to live with the consequences. But, as they say, "The best revenge is a life well-lived." That's my goal now... getting things back on track. Enjoying every day (every minute) and not sweating the little stuff. Being the best mom, friend, family member, member of society I can, and having a GREAT time doing it."

(WOW....Free CAPS from Watersedge!!) Happiest of days to you dear BB! I hope your dreams come true... (and that beloved Elmo and Cleo finally figure out what to do with themselves. hee) Thank you for all the chats and the strength you live each day! Love & Blessings!!!

LOL Dooj...definitely. Great pic rhino!! Happiest of days Topoftheworld. Thank you for sharing your life. I admire your strength and your sense of humor. You refresh my life and all those whom you touch. Thanks for continuing to hang around on top of the world.

Thank you for sharing Waysider. Welcome to the Cafe. Where/what is The Wayside Truckstop?

Thank you for the replies. Pond......hmmm. I don't think I'm magic or fairy tale thinking...but I am processing. I'm really a lighthearted person and (I think) fun to be around, actually look at the good side of life and endeavor to keep my heart filled with gratitude. Right now, and maybe for a time longer, I'm sure I will go through grief and I don't want to bury it. But thanks for your input and reminding me that "today is the only difference I can make for tomorrow." Likeaneagle we can practice spelling when we visit face to face. Belle, thanks for permission to feel. So often that was thwarted in TWI. And thanks beyond measure and more than words can express to my Mr. Pipes. I wish every woman could be blessed with such a compassionate, understanding, and patient man.

Thanks Twinky and FreeAtLast (again :) ) I will add that I needed more info after reading Healing Back Pain; I needed more specific direction about steps to take. So I did a websearch on "tension myositis syndrome" and found mindbodymedicine.com. This site is helpful in figuring out if TMS might be what an indiviual is dealing with. The site was started by Dr. David Schechter, a sports medicine doctor. The site also offered a program for $50.00 (at the time I ordered it). This included 3 tapes, a 30-day plan/workbook, and a report on social illness. It was that program that helped me overcome TMS and led me down a deeper path regarding emotions being manifested as physical symptoms. This (emotions/physical symptoms) is not the case for everyone (nor for all my symptoms), but it was a big factor in my personal recovery. Another book I suggests to anyone suffering with chronic illness is The Anatomy of an Illness: From the Perspective of the Patient by Norman Cousins. It is not long and is written in layman terms. It is also good for doctors and anyone helping someone with illness. It helps cut through judgemental attitudes that people sometimes hold toward folks suffering with mental/physical illnesses. It promotes compassion and offers hope. I hope I always encourage hope and never lose compassion.

Grand-daughter... Dittos to FreeAtLast and Exchathedra...no words to express the kind of pain you have endured. Yet you have endured. I'm sure it isn't easy writing this and that you have shed many tears in the process. I hope you can finish writing your story; you stated there is a glorious end.